• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Nintendo Switch: Powered by Custom Nvidia Tegra Chip (Official)

Schnozberry

Schnozberry

Member
ChrisMahoney said:
I meant for Netflix mainly
Click to expand...

For streaming video 4k60 and HDR are definitely on the table. I'm keenly interested to see what kind of app support Nintendo is able to curate from third parties. EA in particular is apparently pushing for Nintendo to gets sports related content on the Switch, along with major ad buys during sporting events, in return for software support from EA Sports. I wonder if Nintendo is starting to realize how much synergy their is between media and gaming content on the other consoles. Judging by their initial ad campaign for the switch, they at least hired better marketing people this time around.
 
B

Blackpuppy

Member
David H Wong said:
Or playing games on the phone that literally everyone already has with them.
Click to expand...

I was a strong believer in phone gaming 3 years ago and totally expected to do most of my gaming there. But two things happened:

- Apart from the controller and Metal APIs, Apple has treated gaming as an unappreciated middle child. Waiting until last year to update the AppleTV and not including a controller and forcing devs to use the siri remote pretty much dampered their chances of getting into
serious gaming.

- The mobile market is full of cheapskates. The market has spoken and smartphone owners don't want to pay an upfront fee for an app. They want it to be free. So developpers will not invest heavily into creating deep games and instead make some puzzle clone and hope to make money with P2P and ads.

The quality of games is shallow and the nickle and diming of the customer is getting old. While I don't mind playing solitare or threes when standing in line at the busstop, I do often travel and I want something meatier in my gaming. The Switch is THAT console.
 
I

iamaustrian

Member
is it actually possible that this thing has a chip inside the docking station which not just upscales but renders the image to a higher res?

anyway...I think it's already nuts to have "Breath of the Wild" quality on the go.

also: why to people assume that the "on the go" footage in the video is fake when the framerate of Zelda is lower compared to other Zelda footages?
 
L

lenovox1

Member
iamaustrian said:
is it actually possible that this thing has a chip inside the docking station which not just upscales but renders the image to a higher res?

anyway...I think it's already nuts to have "Breath of the Wild" quality on the go.
Click to expand...

A second graphics processor? A Nintendo rep denied it.
 
A

Audette

Member
I'm really hoping the Switch has an interchangeable battery solution. With the rumoured low battery life, I think the ability to take extra charges with you is paramount to the success of this device.

Waiting with baited breath for actual news before I assume that there is an actual battery issue. 2017 can't come quick enough.
 
T

Theognosis

Member
Blackpuppy said:
I was a strong believer in phone gaming 3 years ago and totally expected to do most of my gaming there. But two things happened:

- Apart from the controller and Metal APIs, Apple has treated gaming as an unappreciated middle child. Waiting until last year to update the AppleTV and not including a controller and forcing devs to use the siri remote pretty much dampered their chances of getting into
serious gaming.

- The mobile market is full of cheapskates. The market has spoken and smartphone owners don't want to pay an upfront fee for an app. They want it to be free. So developpers will not invest heavily into creating deep games and instead make some puzzle clone and hope to make money with P2P and ads.

The quality of games is shallow and the nickle and diming of the customer is getting old. While I don't mind playing solitare or threes when standing in line at the busstop, I do often travel and I want something meatier in my gaming. The Switch is THAT console.
Click to expand...

And Pokemon GO is no replacement for a mainline Pokemon.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
iamaustrian said:
well, I can't believe that the docking station only upscales a 504p or whatever "low" res to 1080p or higher TVs.
I mean...that wouldn't look good and crisp at all or am I wrong?
Click to expand...


We know the switch screen must at least be 720 p because Nintendo called the screen "hd". There are still rumors that the dock allows the hardware to go into a "full power" mode since it won't be limited to battery power, but we simply don't know yet.
 
P

primasaurus

Member
iamaustrian said:
well, I can't believe that the docking station only upscales a 504p or whatever "low" res to 1080p or higher TVs.
I mean...that wouldn't look good and crisp at all or am I wrong?
Click to expand...

I would expect when portable and on battery only it would down-clock the chip to play in 720p and save power, once docked and using mains power it would use the full resources of the chip and display in 1080p as saving power would not be required
 
H

Hermii

Member
iamaustrian said:
is it actually possible that this thing has a chip inside the docking station which not just upscales but renders the image to a higher res?

anyway...I think it's already nuts to have "Breath of the Wild" quality on the go.

also: why to people assume that the "on the go" footage in the video is fake when the framerate of Zelda is lower compared to other Zelda footages?
Click to expand...

Not an extra chip, but the main chip could be clocked higher due to not being restricted by battery consumption and there could possibly be extra cooling in the dock.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
This was posted in the main Switch thread, but I think it's relevant also here.

Clown said:
Has anyone noticed this yet? if this are ventilation apertures, maybe has a fan.

nintendo_switch.jpg
Click to expand...

brochiller said:
More evidence that the spot indicated by the blue arrow in that pic is an air intake.

upzatcl4m7tx.jpg
Click to expand...

The air intakes seem to be on the lower back of the tablet and what's more interesting is that also the car mount they showed in the video is cut to accommodate them:

Xutg9a3.jpg
Click to expand...

Would that mean that there is active cooling even in mobile mode?
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Hermii said:
Not an extra chip, but the main chip could be clocked higher due to not being restricted by battery consumption and there could possibly be extra cooling in the dock.
Click to expand...

Just think of it as the unit downclockignand disabling parts of the chip when undocked (of course docked it could run at its normal speed and use the fan).
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
KingSnake said:
This was posted in the main Switch thread, but I think it's relevant also here.





The air intakes seem to be on the lower back of the tablet and what's more interesting is that also the car mount they showed in the video is cut to accommodate them:



Would that mean that there is active cooling even in mobile mode?
Click to expand...

Or, plugging the Switch into an outlet using a charging cable can also allow it to boost as if it were docked... And I know I'd have the thing plugged in on a long trip in the car.
 
P

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Z

Zedark

Member
Nostremitus said:
Or, plugging the Switch into an outlet using a charging cable can also allow it to boost as if it were docked... And I know I'd have the thing plugged in on a long trip in the car.
Click to expand...

That could be an annoyance, though. If I want to get maximum mileage out of my system, I don't want it to upclocking when I connect my powerbank. Perhaps they will have a manual on/off for it, which would solve the issue entirely.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
Zedark said:
That could be an annoyance, though. If I want to get maximum mileage out of my system, I don't want it to upclocking when I connect my powerbank. Perhaps they will have a manual on/off for it, which would solve the issue entirely.
Click to expand...

I expect it to have a powersave mode, like the 3DS
 
Type_Raver

Type_Raver

Member
My take on the low power / full power spec is this...

Conservatively:
- lower clocks thus lower power draw at HD on the go.
- full clock speeds and power at Full Hd out via hdmi docked

Optimistically:
- full clock speed and power when docked, plus Supplimental Computing Device within the Dock for additional gpu grunt, greater than ps4 spec.
 
K

Koyuga

Member
Type_Raver said:
My take on the low power / full power spec is this...

Conservatively:
- lower clocks thus lower power draw at HD on the go.
- full clock speeds and power at Full Hd out via hdmi docked

Optimistically:
- full clock speed and power when docked, plus Supplimental Computing Device within the Dock for additional gpu grunt, greater than ps4 spec.
Click to expand...

There's no way, even with the dock, that this console outpowers the PS4/Xbone. Nintendo doesn't play that game. It probably will be an underclock handheld/full clock docked sort of thing. The official story is that the dock doesn't have any additional power, right?
 
Coulomb_Barrier

Coulomb_Barrier

Member
Type_Raver said:
My take on the low power / full power spec is this...

Conservatively:
- lower clocks thus lower power draw at HD on the go.
- full clock speeds and power at Full Hd out via hdmi docked

Optimistically:
- full clock speed and power when docked, plus Supplimental Computing Device within the Dock for additional gpu grunt, greater than ps4 spec.
Click to expand...

Lol. No chance it's as powerful as PS4, let alone more powerful.
 
C

Cuningas de Häme

Member
But, if it has some kind of connectability that lets Nintendo to introduce a more powerful dock down the line? We still don't know what it uses for connection...

I mean, they could go with tick-tock upgrades with Switch, first the dock, then tablet, then dock etc.

That would be the best scenario for Nintendo, mobile stuff is advancing so fast even now, NVidia has some pretty great techonology, games could scale with graphics (like PC, low med hi for simplicity).

But I doubt they have anything like that yet. Maybe in the future, they have patents for SCDs and stuff anyway. And console generations are dead anyway, from now on it will be all about iterations and smaller jumps and milking the customer even more...
 
Z

zallaaa

Member
Audette said:
I'm really hoping the Switch has an interchangeable battery solution. With the rumoured low battery life, I think the ability to take extra charges with you is paramount to the success of this device.

Waiting with baited breath for actual news before I assume that there is an actual battery issue. 2017 can't come quick enough.
Click to expand...

They will have a sleek cover which doubles as an external battery; possibly something that can be personalized like the n3DS plates.
 
Type_Raver

Type_Raver

Member
Koyuga said:
There's no way, even with the dock, that this console outpowers the PS4/Xbone. Nintendo doesn't play that game. It probably will be an underclock handheld/full clock docked sort of thing. The official story is that the dock doesn't have any additional power, right?
Click to expand...

It doesnt sound that unreal when you look at nvidias product line, like the nvidia GTX 1050. Its a 2GB card, rated at 75w and can compute 1.8Tflops. And its cheap at an asking price of $109.

Factor in NVidia's enthusiasm to enter the market and jump in with both feet for Nintendo, its not too far fetched and they'd probably make a good deal. Plus that tick tock methodology makes it sound plausable, and id say rather affordable.
 
K

KAL2006

Banned
I reckon the fans and cooling system don't even turn on when in portable mode. When Docked the fans and cooling system turn on and the clocks go up. In portable mode I bet the system is massively underclocked.

So I can see in the future they could potentially release a Switch Pocket that has no fans or cooling system to allow a much smaller system that isn't dockable
 
B

brochiller

Member
TLZ said:
Watching this makes me think the x1 is the best thing since sliced bread. He made it sound so powerful.
Click to expand...

I think the chip in this thing is going to prove really capable once we see some games. We've only seen these chips in Android devices if I'm not mistaken. Giving developers direct access to the silicon should allow them to do some great things with it.
 
N

NippleViking

Banned
How does this Floating Point 16vs.32 work? Saw a chart earlier wherein X1 managed 1024Tflops at FP16. Is that sort of performance feasible on the Switch?
 
H

Horsemama1956

Member
tiredheadcrab said:
I wonder how much of a steal this chip is for Nintendo. I mean Nvidia was hungry for a mass market buyer. It seems like they did a good amount of heavy lifting for Nintendo. I am more interested in hearing more about this deal.

How much power will this consume? I am assuming its like 20 watts of power max playing skyrim.
Click to expand...

Hard to charge a premium on a mobile part where the 2 most important features are power consumption and cost.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
NippleViking said:
How does this Floating Point 16vs.32 work? Saw a chart earlier wherein X1 managed 1024Tflops at FP16. Is that sort of performance feasible on the Switch?
Click to expand...
Not every arithmetic expression in a shader needs fp32 precision (24 bits) - some do fine with fp16 (11 bits). And that is more the case for pixel shaders than it is for vertex shaders. So hw that can do fp16 at a higher rate than fp32 (read: mobile Maxwell and mobile and desktop Pascal do fp16 twice faster than fp32) can gain from that fact.
 
P

pswii60

Member
Type_Raver said:
It doesnt sound that unreal when you look at nvidias product line, like the nvidia GTX 1050. Its a 2GB card, rated at 75w and can compute 1.8Tflops. And its cheap at an asking price of $109.

Factor in NVidia's enthusiasm to enter the market and jump in with both feet for Nintendo, its not too far fetched and they'd probably make a good deal. Plus that tick tock methodology makes it sound plausable, and id say rather affordable.
Click to expand...
75w. And that's the GPU alone. Your battery isn't lasting 30 minutes with that. And how would you fit the thing in to a handheld, not to mention the active cooling. That's in a completely different world to what Nintendo is trying to achieve with Switch.

A seriously super-charged Shield TV is a realistic expectation.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
blu said:
Not every arithmetic expression in a shader needs fp32 precision (24 bits) - some do fine with fp16 (11 bits). And that is more the case for pixel shaders than it is for vertex shaders. So hw that can do fp16 at a higher rate than fp32 (read: mobile Maxwell and mobile and desktop Pascal do fp16 twice faster than fp32) can gain from that fact.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I may need you to repeat that in lay terms.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
pswii60 said:
75w. And that's the GPU alone. Your battery isn't lasting 30 minutes with that. And how would you fit the thing in to a handheld, not to mention the active cooling. That's in a completely different world to what Nintendo is trying to achieve with Switch.

A seriously super-charged Shield TV is a realistic expectation.
Click to expand...

Not that I believe in this theory, but he's taking about using a 1050 in the dock, as SCD, not in the tablet.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Nostremitus said:
I'm sorry, I may need you to repeat that in lay terms.
Click to expand...
Ok, let me try. fp16 and fp32 are both floating-point formats - fractional numbers are stored in those, but also computations are done in those formats. The formats differ by their range and precision - and while the range is not so interesting (it's usually more than enough), precision-wise fp32 has 24 bits of precision, while fp16 has 11 bits of precision. Generally, in fractional computations higher precision is better, but there's a saturation point for many computations where if you further increase the precision nothing will change in the end result. There's also the thing that since the ultimate result of those computations are pictures on a screen, you also get some allowable error margin thanks to the human vision - the eye/brain combination may not pick the tiny error that some decreasing the precision might have introduced. Add to that the fact that those pictures are normally fast moving, and that allowable error margin only increases further.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, for a very long time fp24 (17 bits of precision) was deemed sufficient for all pixel-shading purposes, and that changed only when the industry decided to go unified shaders.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
blu said:
Ok, let me try. fp16 and fp32 are both floating-point formats - fractional numbers are stored in those, but also computations are done in those formats. The formats differ by their range and precision - and while the range is not so interesting (it's usually more than enough), precision-wise fp32 has 24 bits of precision, while fp16 has 11 bits of precision. Generally, in fractional computations higher precision is better, but there's a saturation point for many computations where if you further increase the precision nothing will change in the end result. There's also the thing that since the ultimate result of those computations are pictures on a screen, you also get some allowable error margin thanks to the human vision - the eye/brain combination may not pick the tiny error that some decreasing the precision might have introduced. Add to that the fact that those pictures are normally fast moving, and that error margin only increases further.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, is it possible for an API to use both fp16 and fp32? ie, design an API built in a way that a game engine can use whichever the developer needs it to on a task by task basis?
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
You guys are really starting to convince me that the Switch uses some variation of Parker. I really hope that it's true. It would be a lot more enticing to developers I think, while also giving the Switch a little extension on its shelf life. If it's Maxwell it's gonna feel pretty dated very fast, unfortunately. Nintendo knows how to weather that sort of situation, but I want to see Nintendo be a little more forward thinking this time.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Zulithe said:
You guys are really starting to convince me that the Switch uses some variation of Parker. I really hope that it's true. It would be a lot more enticing to developers I think, while also giving the Switch a little extension on its shelf life. If it's Maxwell it's gonna feel pretty dated very fast, unfortunately. Nintendo knows how to weather that sort of situation, but I want to see Nintendo be a little more forward thinking this time.
Click to expand...

My best argument for that is that everybody is running away from 20nm chips, so Nintendo would be quite unfortunate to use them and might get in troubles with that in 2-3 years if not sooner.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Nostremitus said:
Gotcha, is it possible for an API to use both fp16 and fp32? ie, design an API built in a way that a game engine can use whichever the developer needs it to on a task by task basis?
Click to expand...
That's been exactly the case for generations now. It's just that some hw (like GCN prior to 1.3) emulate lower-precision fp formats via higher precision fp formats, and that gives no benefits whatsoever. Luckily, that's not the case for Tegra Maxwell and Pascal.
 
Schnozberry

Schnozberry

Member
KingSnake said:
My best argument for that is that everybody is running away from 20nm chips, so Nintendo would be quite unfortunate to use them and might get in troubles with that in 2-3 years if not sooner.
Click to expand...

Nvidia ran away from 20nm for their GeForce line very early on. They made 20nm commitments to TSMC for fabrication, and thus the Tegra X1 was born. It was quite literally the only suitable product they could make on 20nm, because the node was a total failure for higher power chips. There was no benefit over 28nm and it was far more expensive to produce at quantity.

The use of a custom Parker variant becomes a lot more likely when you consider that Nvidia almost entirely scrapped their tablet and mobile business once they secured the contract with Nintendo, and canceled all the consumer Shield branded products that were in the process of making their way to market that might have competed with it, including the successor to the Shield Tablet. They are all in on this. The only other Tegra Products that remain are focused on AI, deep learning, and Automotive products.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
blu said:
That's been exactly the case for generations now. It's just that some hw (like GCN prior to 1.3) emulate lower-precision fp formats via higher precision fp formats, and that gives no benefits whatsoever. Luckily, that's not the case for Tegra Maxwell and Pascal.
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
S

sir_bumble_bee

Member
I'm no computer engineer, but I have a burning question for anyone who can provide something close to an answer. Based on what's confirmed, what's rumored, and what seems well in the realm of possibility regarding what's inside this thing, what are the chances the NS will be able to play most modern console games at (or close) to 1080p while docked? I'm guessing more taxing games like Battlefield 1 are probably off the table?
 
N

nikatapi

Member
sir_bumble_bee said:
I'm no computer engineer, but I have a burning question for anyone who can provide something close to an answer. Based on what's confirmed, what's rumored, and what seems well in the realm of possibility regarding what's inside this thing, what are the chances the NS will be able to play most modern console games at (or close) to 1080p while docked? I'm guessing more taxing games like Battlefield 1 are probably off the table?
Click to expand...

Pretty slim i think for native 1080p in very demanding games. CPU will probably not be an issue, but the GPU cannot be very close to XB1 and even XB1 has issues pushing 1080p. So maybe 900p or using some kind of upscaling.
 
E

El Topo

Member
sir_bumble_bee said:
I'm no computer engineer, but I have a burning question for anyone who can provide something close to an answer. Based on what's confirmed, what's rumored, and what seems well in the realm of possibility regarding what's inside this thing, what are the chances the NS will be able to play most modern console games at (or close) to 1080p while docked? I'm guessing more taxing games like Battlefield 1 are probably off the table?
Click to expand...

If PS4 or XB1 can barely handle them in 1080p (if at all), then unquestionably NSW won't be able to do so. Don't set yourself up for disappointment. Hope for 720p (if at all) at best.
 
Thelonelykoopa

Thelonelykoopa

Member
sir_bumble_bee said:
I'm no computer engineer, but I have a burning question for anyone who can provide something close to an answer. Based on what's confirmed, what's rumored, and what seems well in the realm of possibility regarding what's inside this thing, what are the chances the NS will be able to play most modern console games at (or close) to 1080p while docked? I'm guessing more taxing games like Battlefield 1 are probably off the table?
Click to expand...

Most likely if our current speculation is correct than no as the xbox one struggles to deliver modern games at 1080p so something weaker than it would be doing worst. Now the differences is the switch wont be as held back by its cpu apparently so it might have an advantage in a few games.

I still think its silly that it seems the switch will not beat my computers ATI radeon 5770 from late 2009 as I was hoping the wiiu would and it didnt and switch seems to be the same though I guess its to be expected with a handheld hell this old card beats the xbox one in some games.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Reuters: Switch 2 willfeature a custom Nvidia chip, coming later this year
News
45
2K
Marvel14 replied
(Super Duper Nintendo Switch 2 ?) Nvidia announces a new Tegra with Blackwell architecture to be available next year
48
3K
FireFly replied
Rumor: Nvidia might be working on a PC handheld rival to Steam Deck
Rumor 2
73
4K
CityHunter1981 replied
Nvidia has a new graphics Control panel
Analysis 2 3
123
8K
YeulEmeralda replied
Report: Nintendo Switch 2 DLSS Might Not Be as Powerful as It Sounds
Rumor Hardware 2 3
114
8K
Woopah replied
Top Bottom