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"Gamingbolt: Xbox One sales at 26 million"

Do people think Scorpio games are gonna blow Pro games out the water or something? Guys hardware releases a year apart from each other are likely to produce similar looking games. I'm not knowledgeable of hardware components, but that just seems like common sense.

I don't think Scorpio, targeting 4K games will be some big comeback story for MS. It's still an Xbox 1. It should do well with fans upgrading tho
 
If you remove us and uk.... The ratio skyrockets in favour of ps4. That is part of the business, considering all regions makes the brand stronger. That helped Sony in the ps3 era.

well we don't have any recent accurate uk numbers, but us numbers. so here we go:

53.4m vs 26m = 2.05:1
removing US
35.9m vs 10.3 = 3.5:1

so outside the us, ps4 is selling 3.5 consoles for every xbox one sold
kind of interesting, that ps4 is outselling xb1 worldwide by 2:1 and removing the us will increase that number just by 1.5
by the way, i made that post just to give a more accurate number.
but it's always good to compare worldwide sales and also special different regions to get an overall better picture of the market


i already made a post for some other region here:
(note that some ratios as pretty old. france for example was at the end of 2015)
Ps4 vs Xbox One (pre Xbox One S) sales ratio in different regions
US: 1.14:1
UK: 1.2 - 1.25:1
FR: 3:1
DE: 4.5:1
JP: 50:1
 
Do people think Scorpio games are gonna blow Pro games out the water or something? Guys hardware releases a year apart from each other are likely to produce similar looking games. I'm not knowledgeable of hardware components, but that just seems like common sense.

I don't think Scorpio, targeting 4K games will be some big comeback story for MS. It's still an Xbox 1. It should do well with fans upgrading tho

didn't the xbox1 come out a year after the Ps2?
 

Blueingreen

Member
2407970-2290299078-13543.jpg


Hirai is going to come on the 2017 E3 stage with slide again.

Can you believe this was an actual slide in an actual E3 presser? Man times have changed.

If someone told me this was a photoshop edit posted on Gamefaq I would legitimately believe them lol
 

opricnik

Banned
Do people think Scorpio games are gonna blow Pro games out the water or something? Guys hardware releases a year apart from each other are likely to produce similar looking games. I'm not knowledgeable of hardware components, but that just seems like common sense.

I don't think Scorpio, targeting 4K games will be some big comeback story for MS. It's still an Xbox 1. It should do well with fans upgrading tho

There is a chance exclusive games if built up for scorpio(Halo 6?) could blow up Pro.

6 with new cpu vs 4.1 TF with old CPU is not neglectable difference
 

dracula_x

Member
That's INCREDIBLE!

Lol people give Greenberg so much shit for his arrogant old ways but these guys....


THESE GUYS MADE A FUCKING SLIDE saying "the Console war is Over" and presented that at their E3 conference!

PS2 ended up selling 3x more than the Gamecube and Xbox COMBINED. There was a reason Sony were arrogant pricks in 2005-2006.
 

Elandyll

Banned
There is a chance exclusive games if built up for scorpio(Halo 6?) could blow up Pro.

6 with new cpu vs 4.1 TF with old CPU is not neglectable difference
To put things in perspective, going from 4TF to 6 is a 50% increase, and so is going from 1.2TF to 1.8.

Of course things are more complex than that, and we're going to have to juge on actual specs/ architecture and see whether MS will be true to their word of not having Scorpio exclusives, as it is supposed to be an incremental upgrade in the XB1 family.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
That's INCREDIBLE!

Lol people give Greenberg so much shit for his arrogant old ways but these guys....


THESE GUYS MADE A FUCKING SLIDE saying "the Console war is Over" and presented that at their E3 conference!

Vwvz7bZ.jpg

I wonder if this is where Arrogant Sony came from. And could explain why they designed and priced the PS3 the way they did.

PS2 ended up selling 3x more than the Gamecube and Xbox COMBINED. There was a reason Sony were arrogant pricks in 2005-2006.

Hmmm...lol
 

Elandyll

Banned
I wonder if this is where Arrogant Sony came from. And could explain why they designed and priced the PS3 the way they did.



Hmmm...lol
This was part of it, but I think it came more from some outrageous claims by Harrison, Hirai, Kutaragi and Tretton who were acting like the $599 price was no big deal among other things ("HD starts when we say it does", etc..

Gaf had a thread about that in 2012.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=485754

I think it'll probably be impossible for them to ever forget this and the blowback that followed in perception, which would be a good thing.
 

notaskwid

Member
There is a chance exclusive games if built up for scorpio(Halo 6?) could blow up Pro.

6 with new cpu vs 4.1 TF with old CPU is not neglectable difference
The game still has to run on the Xbox one, unless they essentially make two versions of it (which would lead to the online content being separated by version), it's not blowing away anything.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
There is a chance exclusive games if built up for scorpio(Halo 6?) could blow up Pro.

6 with new cpu vs 4.1 TF with old CPU is not neglectable difference

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony still has better looking exclusives vs the Scorpio, resolution isn't everything.

Detroit on PRO for example will likely look better than any Halo/Gears/Forza game even on Scorpio.
 

cakely

Member
There is a chance exclusive games if built up for scorpio(Halo 6?) could blow up Pro.

6 with new cpu vs 4.1 TF with old CPU is not neglectable difference

Xbox One Scorpio has 1.46x GPU compute power than than PlayStation 4 Pro.

PlayStation 4 has 1.41x more GPU compute power than the Xbox One.

It's not a huge difference, unless you think that the PlayStation 4 "blew up" the Xbox One, and I'm guessing that you don't think that.
 

Bioshocker

Member
First impressions are super important. Consumers picked their side in that first year and stuck with it. Whomever wins the first year is probably winning the rest of them too.

It really is. I remember Phil Spencer saying that people were still coming to GameStop believing that Xbox One doesn't play used games.
 

Unknown?

Member
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony still has better looking exclusives vs the Scorpio, resolution isn't everything.

Detroit on PRO for example will likely look better than any Halo/Gears/Forza game even on Scorpio.
Yeah I agree with this. Although weaker they have better developers in house with the masterful ICE team. Not to mention when Scorpio launches the Pro will be on its second year of games which always look better than launch year games. Pro games at the end of this year/early 2018 are going to look leaps and bounds better than what launched in 2016. Horizon already looks better than any other Pro game.
 

c0de

Member
Do people think Scorpio games are gonna blow Pro games out the water or something? Guys hardware releases a year apart from each other are likely to produce similar looking games. I'm not knowledgeable of hardware components, but that just seems like common sense.

There are always people thinking the weirdest things. Why would it be different in this case?
The only problem could be that some make these group of people larger than they are. But that's not your intention because you know it's only a few, right?
 

avaya

Member
PS3 matching the 360 at a much higher ASP and late start coupled with development issues and lower NPS in the hardcore segment should have been writing on the wall. I remember the bizarre threads predicting doom for Sony in 2012.

I mean PS4 is par for the course, it's doing a touch better than expected but nothing about it's success is unprecedented or warrants any real surprise. The underlying dynamics of the market place are still the same. Barring a colossal fuck-up for the next iteration Sony will cake walk it again.
 

Memento

Member
Do people think Scorpio games are gonna blow Pro games out the water or something? Guys hardware releases a year apart from each other are likely to produce similar looking games. I'm not knowledgeable of hardware components, but that just seems like common sense.

I don't think Scorpio, targeting 4K games will be some big comeback story for MS. It's still an Xbox 1. It should do well with fans upgrading tho

Agreed.

Also, if Sony shows gameplay of The Last of Us Pt 2 running on Pro at E3 2017, that would probably look better than anything on Scorpio. Or at least make Scorpio looks like a marginal upgrade compared to PS4.

Not restricted only to TLOU2. God of War, Detroit, Gran Turismo Sports, Spider Man, Death Stranding, Days Gone... these games are some of the best looking right now in the industry (announced ones I mean). I honestly cant see how Scorpio titles (that supposedly will focus on having 4k native resolution) will look much better than these, or better at all.
 
What did I miss? Did MS announce some "crazy specs" in the meantime? I thought they were going for 6 TF?

it's almost certainly going to have a Vega GPU that will potentially end up having some forward looking Navi features. And if you look at what's coming in Vega, and what changes are being made, AMD is making some very big and important changes that will bring the efficiency of their chips more in line with what has been present on Nvidia GPUs since Maxwell.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11002/the-amd-vega-gpu-architecture-teaser/3

Back in August, our pal David Kanter discovered one of the important ingredients of the secret sauce that is NVIDIA’s efficiency optimizations. As it turns out, NVIDIA has been doing tile based rasterization and binning since Maxwell, and that this was likely one of the big reasons Maxwell’s efficiency increased by so much. Though NVIDIA still refuses to comment on the matter, from what we can ascertain, breaking up a scene into tiles has allowed NVIDIA to keep a lot more traffic on-chip, which saves memory bandwidth, but also cuts down on very expensive accesses to VRAM.

For Vega, AMD will be doing something similar. The architecture will add support for what AMD calls the Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer, which true to its name, will give Vega the ability to bin polygons by tile. By doing so, AMD will cut down on the amount of memory accesses by working with smaller tiles that can stay-on chip. This will also allow AMD to do a better job of culling hidden pixels, keeping them from making it to the pixel shaders and consuming resources there.

As we have almost no detail on how AMD or NVIDIA are doing tiling and binning, it’s impossible to say with any degree of certainty just how close their implementations are, so I’ll refrain from any speculation on which might be better. But I’m not going to be too surprised if in the future we find out both implementations are quite similar. The important thing to take away from this right now is that AMD is following a very similar path to where we think NVIDIA captured some of their greatest efficiency gains on Maxwell, and that in turn bodes well for Vega.

So, the specs you're looking at are not to be viewed as anything resembling the way previous AMD architectures have been viewed. That 6TFLOPs of performance is undoubtedly going to take Scorpio notably further than 6TFLOPs would take an AMD chip on previous architectures. The memory bandwidth figure we have for Scorpio will demonstrate a similar improvement in efficiency or bang for your buck. You know the common view that Nvidia gets more for each Teraflop than AMD chips are able to? That may very well change with Vega. There's even sufficient evidence currently that AMD has effectively closed the core clock speed advantage that Nvidia GPU architectures have with Vega. It isn't that Microsoft have revealed more about Scorpio, it's that AMD itself have revealed information about their upcoming GPU architecture that will almost certainly be relevant to Project Scorpio, since it's expected that's exactly what Project Scorpio will use.

Microsoft waited an entire year before putting this thing out for a reason. It is almost certainly going to have a Vega GPU with possibly some forward looking Navi features included. I'm not even including the possibility of a Ryzen CPU in any of my thoughts as I make this post. I'm focusing entirely on the likelihood of a Vega GPU. There's every bit of evidence that people are severely underestimating what Project Scorpio will be able to do if it has the expected technology inside it.
 
Do people think Scorpio games are gonna blow Pro games out the water or something? Guys hardware releases a year apart from each other are likely to produce similar looking games. I'm not knowledgeable of hardware components, but that just seems like common sense.

I don't think Scorpio, targeting 4K games will be some big comeback story for MS. It's still an Xbox 1. It should do well with fans upgrading tho

I certainly don't expect them to blow Pro games out of the water from a pure visual standpoint, and anyone expecting that is expecting the wrong thing. Even with Scorpio being more advanced, they are still going to be close enough in certain respects, especially with how devs will be designing games, that most won't be able to tell these huge differences. Assets and such will more or less be the same, and in cases where the PS4 is the lead platform for games, games will be made in a way that ensures that Scorpio will be equal to, or just run better than, the PS4 Pro equivalent because, obviously, scorpio will be a more capable system.

That said, at a technical level, yes, Scorpio will likely for all intents and purposes, blow Pro out of the water. Just don't expect that to be in ways that are always immediately noticeable to gamers that really don't care about all that stuff. People that do will certainly have fun in digital foundry threads, however, but beyond that I don't think most will care. I'll just be excited to see that, with all the newer games coming out, there will be an even more powerful and newer console option available with which to play those games on. I can't fucking wait to play the new Red Dead Redemption and Grand Theft Auto on Scorpio.
 
Oh. Well, it won't.

The XB1S will be $200-$250 by the time the Scorpio is out which will be $400-$500.

Most people don't even have a 4K TV and don't care about resolution or frames per second.

The Scorpio is a niche product.

People expecting Scorpio to be a niche product, do these same people also consider PS4 Pro to be niche?

Also, I literally laugh at the notion that people not having 4K televisions will in any way prevent people from picking up Scorpio. Hey, it won't. The benefits of the system will still be obvious from a visual and gameplay standpoint, even if it not as big a jump as it would be with a proper 4K TV. 4K television adoption will not hurt Scorpio.
 

cakely

Member

That seems ... incredibly unlikely. Holiday 2017 the slim (cheaper) versions of both consoles will be king and the niche versions (PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio) will make up right around 20% of sales.

This is assuming a $400 price point for Xbox One Scorpio. If it costs more, the share will be less.
 

Memento

Member
People expecting Scorpio to be a niche product, do these same people also consider PS4 Pro to be niche?

Also, I literally laugh at the notion that people not having 4K televisions will in any way prevent people from picking up Scorpio. Hey, it won't. The benefits of the system will still be obvious from a visual and gameplay standpoint, even if it not as big a jump as it would be with a proper 4K TV. 4K television adoption will not hurt Scorpio.

Errr... yes?
 

zewone

Member
People expecting Scorpio to be a niche product, do these same people also consider PS4 Pro to be niche?

Yes.

Sony even expected this. Anyone who pays attention would probably come to the same conclusion.

It's probably around 10:1 sales ratio between Slim vs. Pro.

I would expect around the same ratio for XB1S vs. XB1Scorpio
 

cakely

Member
People expecting Scorpio to be a niche product, do these same people also consider PS4 Pro to be niche?

Also, I literally laugh at the notion that people not having 4K televisions will in any way prevent people from picking up Scorpio. Hey, it won't. The benefits of the system will still be obvious from a visual and gameplay standpoint, even if it not as big a jump as it would be with a proper 4K TV. 4K television adoption will not hurt Scorpio.

Yes. The PS4 Pro actually is niche, and the Xbox One Scorpio will be the same when it launches.

I really think you're buying a little too much in to Scorpio hype. This is coming from someone who bought a PS4 Pro day one and will most likely pre-order an Xbox One Scorpio as soon as they become available.
 

Rymuth

Member
Oh. Well, it won't.

The XB1S will be $200-$250 by the time the Scorpio is out which will be $400-$500.

Most people don't even have a 4K TV and don't care about resolution or frames per second.

The Scorpio is a niche product.
China is compromised of more than a billion people, though. If just 2% would buy the Scorpio, it would ecplise the Xb1+S sales combined.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
So being realistic here would MS be better off starting the next gen early with the Scorpio?

Best case scenario for the X1 I'm gonna guess is 40 million lifetime sales.

I think there is a strong chance MS repeats what they did with the original Xbox and 360 where they pushed out there new system early to get a head start on the competition.

Maybe, maybe not

It might be tempting to press the reset button early, but that would be the second time MS has done that, and it could risk consumers losing confidence if they think MS won't support their purchase for more than a few years
 
Yes.

Sony even expected this. Anyone who pays attention would probably come to the same conclusion.

It's probably around 10:1 sales ratio between Slim vs. Pro.

I would expect around the same ratio for XB1S vs. XB1Scorpio

Well, I don't expect that to continuing being the norm going forward. At some point the more powerful systems will overtake the weaker ones in terms of sales.
 

zewone

Member
Maybe, maybe not

It might be tempting to press the reset button early, but that would be the second time MS has done that, and it could risk consumers losing confidence if they think MS won't support their purchase for more than a few years

Yep. They're in quite the predicament.

Well, I don't expect that to continuing being the norm going forward. At some point the more powerful systems will overtake the weaker ones in terms of sales.
Price and game library are much more important than power.

Take a look at the PS2 destroying the GC and Xbox.

If you mean the Scorpio outselling the XB1S? It will never happen.
 
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