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Kem0sabe · Jan 29, 2017

The problem here is two-fold...

1. They used those stretch goals to get more money, then during development they cut those community funded features, spending money on things that werent in the KS, like the console version instead.

2. They only admitted to cutting the content after days of being confronted by the fact on twitter, facebook, official forums and reddit. They were going to launch the game without ever informing the community of the cut content, especially damming in the case of the italian language translation.

Inxile is very much in the wrong here

Irobot82 · Jan 29, 2017

I think it might just be hard to actually judge how much of an impact stretch goals will have on your game development. I mean this sucks and I hope this doesn't become a precedent but I backed the game to get the game built not because of stretch goals.

Durante · Jan 29, 2017

More_Badass said:
Game dev is a fluid thing; promising specific aspects before the game is fully designed, before the scope is completely measured, and the story and tone is set in stone, places the devs between a rock and hard place.

That's all true. However, there are multiple good ways to deal with this:

Learn from other campaigns and don't promise things for money that you aren't certain you can keep. (Harebrained Schemes)
Seek additional funds and compromise on other aspects, but soldier through and deliver every single stretch goal. (Obsidian)
When you make the decision to cut some things, report that decision and its reasoning directly to your backers. (Larian)

What inXile has done is what a used car salesman would do: don't talk about the problem and hope no one notices. This is not a good way to deal with it, and making excuses for their behavior is unfair to all the other developers who chose better (and perhaps more uncomfortable!) options, and is also a bad incentive for betterment in the future.

Eolz · Jan 29, 2017

That's disappointing to hear. Some of those make a bit of sense but...
I don't think you can excuse all of this just by saying "it's a design decision too" either, it's really oversimplifying it all while encouraging devs to not follow up on discussions with the backers.

Labadal · Jan 29, 2017

Stumpokapow said:
<Developer> We made a design decision

<Website Full Of Actual Social Cripples> DEVELOPER OUT OF CONTROL, SELLING LIES TO THE PUBLIC, NO MORE WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!!

You're not any better than them when you write stuff like this. I backed the game at a high tier and I don't regret it, but they have cut a lot of stretch goals from the game. Okay, fine, but their excuse does not fly with me. "We're not a big studio like Obsidian or Larian". Then why do you have Torment, Wasteland 3, Bard's Tale IV and possibly another project going on at the same time? Focus on your product and try to deliver. They are also still taking donations for Torment, so they have been getting a slow but steady flow of money into the project. It doesn't help that they let one of their most talented people, Kevin Saunders, leave. What bothers me the most is that they didn't say anything about this until people confronted them. You don't talk about stuff like this one month prior to launch. They also promised to focus on the PC version first and foremost, but they are releasing all versions at the same time. They cut the Italian localization. There was supposed to be even more mark Morgan music, but they can't do that either.

Remember that this game was supposed to be released like two years ago. The game and money have been mismanaged and there are no other ways to explain it. It leaves one with less optimism about the game and their future projects. I backed Wasteland 3, but only at the lowest tier, because I knew about some of these things and other issues and changes they made to the game.

I won't ignore this studio, but my backing at high tiers days if they crowd fund something are over. I will also keep expectations in check.

Labadal · Jan 29, 2017

duckroll said:
As a backer the main thing I want is a good game. I would rather see developers make the best game possible rather than stick a checklist of features. Ideally every single stretch goal and feature makes it in and they are also of high quality. But that's not the reality of creative development. Sometimes an idea sounds better on paper than in execution. Once you realize that, it's better to have the balls to cut it out or change it rather than to stubbornly stick to it.

With regards to Torment in particular, it's hard to tell what has actually been cut because the forum post linked here only details the Oasis content being scaled back. There are no specifics about how many companions are cut and which ones in particular. Hard to get mad...

They cut three companions.

5th companion: A fifth companion will be added to the base four, the Toy, a changing ball of goo: Is it a pet, an abandoned toy, a dangerous weapon? Whatever it is, it responds to the way you treat it by changing its appearance and abilities to reflect what it perceives as your desires. Its ultimate secrets are well, youll have to find out.

7th Companion: Another surprise companion is added. You want blood? Youve got it.

6th Companion: A sixth companion has been added, but were leaving this one mysterious for now.

Possibly cut/delayed

Crafting Numenera: The numenera may be beyond our understanding, but they arent beyond our use. This Stretch Goal allows you to learn the tricks to combining the numenera into your own custom cyphers and artifacts. This would not be a rote crafting system, but one that includes some puzzle-solving elements (though not what youd call a mini-game) and that is tied into the world and narrative. This is yet another idea we started to explore early on for the game, but that felt out of scope for our original budget. But at this Stretch Goal, we can confidently commit to restoring this aspect of our design vision as well.

Castoffs Labyrinth Secret Meres: Meres are added to the Castoffs Labyrinth, these Meres (dependent upon the Fathoms) are hidden within the Labyrinth and are accessible only from your own mind.

Lacunae Not everyone in the Labyrinth has a living counterpart. Lacunae are figments of your mind that represent parts of yourself (or do they?). Through conversing with a Lacuna, youll discover puzzles and quests, and might even enhance your own abilities. As we delve to deeper fathoms, youll be able to find more Lacunae with whom to interact.

Hall of Lingering Reflections: This gathering place offers unique opportunities and tools to help you defeat your foes. It is a living museum, a history, a prison. This subterranean vault is a place of memories, a vault of pain and laughter, built by a forgotten power for forgotten reasons. The memories of its denizens are frozen in time, and so they have no knowledge of the passage of the centuries beyond these walls. Its doors open into smaller worlds, pocket dimensions that house these shells in a simulation of their memories. But who lies hidden here? What secrets might you unlock? And is it possible to spirit one of this company away as you seek your creator?

We don't know if Brian Mitsoda wrote anything for the game.

StrangeADT · Jan 29, 2017

loganclaws said:
Yes I will to get the job done.Ever heard of reputation? In the real world it's what makes or breaks businesses.

So you would walk into a job, as a developer or artist (AKA not a manager, a marketer, or a CEO level position that has any ability to make or influence decisions), and if your superiors overpromised on what the team could deliver, you would be perfectly okay with this and work for free?

Lets assume you have a backbone and you don't work for free. Then guess what -- those upper level guys who've been managing things at the business level have lost their technical guys and potentially their artists and now don't have the artistic ability or technical know-how to deliver even if they wanted to. That's the point I'm making.

There's a difference between being the owner of a company and being an employee. If you had no ability to influence what your boss promised, and he over promised, and then forced you to work for free... I mean if you actually work for free at that point, you're a pushover and you're either shirking responsibilities to your family, or you simply have nobody that depends on you.

duckroll · Jan 29, 2017

Wait does the game really only have 4 companions?

Labadal · Jan 29, 2017

duckroll said:
Wait does the game really only have 4 companions?

There are six companions as far as I know. There were supposed to be four at first. Five more companions were added as stretch goals. Three of those have been cut. I think The Toy is one of those that were cut.

Sasie · Jan 29, 2017

duckroll said:
Wait does the game really only have 4 companions?

Six. Aligern, Callistege, Tybir, Matkina, Erritis, Rhin.

From what I read all of those can be found in the beta and the ones in the beta are the same ones for the release. I haven't touched the beta myself beyond just the first 15 minutes because I didn't want to spoil the game so can't 100% confirm it.

So same amount as say Tyranny. What was fine in Tyranny. The only problem I have with it is that with six I will most likely end up using the same ones each time. Tyranny was a 20 hour game though and considering Torment is suppose to be on the length of Pillars of Eternity I think the extra two/three will be missed.

duckroll · Jan 29, 2017

If there are 6 companions and more coming later via free DLC I'm fine with it. If there are 4 I would riot lol.

DSix · Jan 29, 2017

Delivering a good game takes precedence. Development is a fucking hard job.

On that note: promising design stretch goals when you're hardly past the prototype stage is a bad idea. But backers should also know that things are never set in stone.

Labadal · Jan 29, 2017

DSix said:
Delivering a good game takes precedence. Development is a fucking hard job.

On that note: promising design stretch goals when you're hardly past the prototype stage is a bad idea. But backers should also know that things are never set in stone.

I think they do? It's their insistence in not telling backers what's going on that annoys me on a personal level. Shit gets cut all the time, just be upfront about it in a project like this.

What made me react to this thread, though, is that a mod thinks it's alright to call an entire community autistic, even if he used another term. As someone that works with autistic kids, it disgusts me to throw that around like an insult.

Maniac · Jan 29, 2017

Tertullian said:
I only just heard about this from this thread itself, and I'm not a backer, but I find the direction of this thread pretty annoying.

Crowdfunding campaigns ask people to take on a significant risk, effectively putting down a high-risk preorder years in advance so the developers get to work on the game they want to work on. Stretch goals are specifically designed to work as incentives for fans to put down as much money as possible. In light of those facts, it hardly seems ridiculous for a backer to be a little miffed when significant content that they paid for, that was part of the promised product when they put down their consideration, is cut.

Companions are a big deal in a game like this. A really big deal. They're central to the experience. And it sounds like they've cut 25% of them with a completely unaccountable, unverifiable excuse, the old "sure we cut that content, but we, uh, made everything else better!" They say they couldn't deliver 8 companions that felt complex and satisfying enough. But people paid for 8 companions that were complex and satisfying. InXile were perfectly happy to take people's money for 8 companions that were complex and satisfying. They were perfectly happy to cajole people into pledging more money so they would get 8 companions who were complex and satisfying.

Say I placed an order with a carpenter for a table set with 8 chairs. They charge my credit card and everything. But when they deliver months later, they only deliver a table and six chairs. I call them up and ask what happened. "Oh, we had to cut two of the chairs, because we couldn't make 8 chairs that were up to standard. But don't worry, we made the other 6 chairs even better. Don't you want chairs that are beautiful and made to a high standard of quality? Why do you want us to rush and turn out 8 sub-par chairs instead of 6 well-made chairs? Can't you understand that we did what was best for your dining set?" Well, no. I seriously doubt any of you would accept that. You paid for a table and 8 good chairs. This false dichotomy of "6 good chairs or 8 questionable chairs" didn't come up until long after the carpenter already happily took your money.

People are gonna say this analogy is ridiculous, but it isn't. I refuse to have less self-respect for myself as a consumer of video games than I have for myself as a consumer of physical products. Video game publishers do not deserve to be let off the hook of actually delivering what they promised in exchange for your cash just because video game development is complex, or because they're indie, or because they're your pet devs and you reeeeeeally like them and don't want people to be mean to them. Consumer rights don't suddenly disappear because it's kickstarter. They don't get off the hook just because they say "Well, we can either deliver a great game, or we can deliver all the content we promised." I refuse to accept that dichotomy. They promised to deliver both.

And that's not even getting into the issue of tarring anyone who disagrees with you with the labels "social cripple" or "mentally ill", something that we apparently do now on NeoGAF, despite its being a small half-step at best from calling other people "retarded" as a general insult. But hey, if it's a mod's favorite kickstarter project, I guess it's okay now.

Look: I get that it isn't the biggest deal in the world. And it may not be a material enough change to legally force a refund (who the heck knows, kickstarter legal issues are murky as hell). But slamming anyone who is even a little upset about this change as a socially backwards crybaby is ridiculous, and more than a little anti-consumer.

You're treating it like a preorder or purchase, though. Which it isn't. It's in the noun utilised; you're a "backer" (as you yourself called it) and not a "consumer" or "buyer" - There's a direct difference. And fact of the matter is; stretch goals are, to some extent, terrible if they're specific. Because they can detract from the game in numerous ways without problems; and some of the best things in videogames come from experimentation, not from sticking to a bullet-point checklist.

And yes, your consumer rights do disappear because it's a Kickstarter. You're supporting an idea; a concept and the creator thereof, and they're promising you something in return, given they succeed. You're not a consumer, you're bloody well close to being an angel investor.

Don't treat it like a transaction, because it isn't.

More_Badass said:
I wouldn't consider them significant changes though. Aside from the Bloom, it's not a change. It's a reduction in scope. No different from scenes in a trailer not making it into the film, except even less binding here because these were merely hopeful ideas and concepts

Durante said:
No, we're asking the developers to tell their backers about significant changes to things which were concretely advertised at specific levels of capital during the campaign.

You're... Both right, really. Fact is; things change. Sometimes ideas are far-fetched or turn out to be bad, or simply not doable; sometimes better ideas come up. Regardless of the reasoning, it should be communicated clearly to the supporters once it becomes evident that something that was indeed promised isn't going to make the cut.

justsomeguy · Jan 29, 2017

Durante said:
That's all true. However, there are multiple good ways to deal with this:

Learn from other campaigns and don't promise things for money that you aren't certain you can keep. (Harebrained Schemes)

Seek additional funds and compromise on other aspects, but soldier through and deliver every single stretch goal. (Obsidian)

When you make the decision to cut some things, report that decision and its reasoning directly to your backers. (Larian)

What inXile has done is what a used car salesman would do: don't talk about the problem and hope no one notices. This is not a good way to deal with it, and making excuses for their behavior is unfair to all the other developers who chose better (and perhaps more uncomfortable!) options, and is also a bad incentive for betterment in the future.

Completely agree, I am surprised at some of the attempts to downplay this and pretend there's nothing to see here.

That said, I still have every faith that this will be an outstanding game and I can't wait to play it.

Maniac · Jan 29, 2017

Durante said:
That's all true. However, there are multiple good ways to deal with this:

Learn from other campaigns and don't promise things for money that you aren't certain you can keep. (Harebrained Schemes)

Seek additional funds and compromise on other aspects, but soldier through and deliver every single stretch goal. (Obsidian)

When you make the decision to cut some things, report that decision and its reasoning directly to your backers. (Larian)

What inXile has done is what a used car salesman would do: don't talk about the problem and hope no one notices. This is not a good way to deal with it, and making excuses for their behavior is unfair to all the other developers who chose better (and perhaps more uncomfortable!) options, and is also a bad incentive for betterment in the future.

Of those three, I think Obsidian's approach was the worst one. Because you can feel all the "checklisting" that'd been going on with stretch goals and all kinds of nonsense; a lot of the effort could've been shuffled into much more satisfying aspects / features. I'd wager PoE would've been a good deal better with the "Larian approach"

justsomeguy · Jan 29, 2017

Sasie said:
Six. Aligern, Callistege, Tybir, Matkina, Erritis, Rhin.

From what I read all of those can be found in the beta and the ones in the beta are the same ones for the release. I haven't touched the beta myself beyond just the first 15 minutes because I didn't want to spoil the game so can't 100% confirm it.

So same amount as say Tyranny. What was fine in Tyranny. The only problem I have with it is that with six I will most likely end up using the same ones each time. Tyranny was a 20 hour game though and considering Torment is suppose to be on the length of Pillars of Eternity I think the extra two/three will be missed.

Is pat rothfuss' companion still in?

DemWalls · Jan 29, 2017

By the by, I haven't been following much, Rothfuss has worked on this game, right? I remember him being in one of the stretch goals, but I wouldn't be surprised if he left for some reason.

EDIT: Beaten, LOL. What a coincidence.

Sasie · Jan 29, 2017

justsomeguy said:
Is pat rothfuss' companion still in?

Rhin. Apparently a child who doesn't have a class and a lot lower stats then the rest. I'm curious how that will work. Wiki only says she 'talk with gods'.

Edit: Also to make it clear, yes she is in.

justsomeguy · Jan 29, 2017

wolfhowwl said:
I think it's important to always keep in mind that prior to the advent of internet discussion forums, there were many thousands and perhaps millions of mentally ill individuals in this country who were largely "out of sight and out of mind" to most Americans. These are people who might be on disability and spend virtually all of their time as shut-ins at home, so most people would never encounter them in work or social situations.

For most of us, such people simply didn't exist. When these people would venture out into public, they would often have "episodes" and "outbursts" which would cause normal people to recoil, shun and ostracize them, thus causing these people to further withdraw into their shut-in lives.

But with the advent of internet discussion forums, these people are "in their element" here. They can now talk to literally thousands of people from around the world, from the safety of their little hovels, without fear of any negative physical consequences they would expect to receive in the real world. Hence they feel free to say whatever thought passes through their tortured minds, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. This is the greatest development of their entire lives, and they often spend all day her to the exclusion of all other activities.

So now you understand the RPGCodex.

This is an utterly reprehensible post.

Kieli · Jan 29, 2017

DSix said:
Delivering a good game takes precedence. Development is a fucking hard job.

Agreed. Not much to argue here.

On that note: promising design stretch goals when you're hardly past the prototype stage is a bad idea. But backers should also know that things are never set in stone.

Disagreed here. The way inXile communicated this was in poor form at best, and sleazy at worst. For these changes that are directly tied into stretch goals, I think the "ethical" thing to do is to let the backers know soon after the changes are finalized/set in stone. NOT 1 month prior to release.

Likewise, I feel that they've taken way too much on their plate. They have 3 projects going on, and they are investing resources into aspects of the game that were never even in the pitch (such as simultaneous console release). Shouldn't the stretch goals take priority, especially when you use them as a carrot to gain more donations/pledges?

Insofar as game development is fluid and design decisions are never set in stone, I'm alright with the changes. How inXile thought it was appropriate to disseminate this information on a forum post (not even their own forum) 1 month prior to release speaks very poorly to them as a transparent and consumer-first company.

justsomeguy · Jan 29, 2017

Sasie said:
Rhin. Apparently a child who doesn't have a class and a lot lower stats then the rest. I'm curious how that will work. Wiki only says she 'talk with gods'.

Hmm. A lot less than I hoped.

Brashnir · Jan 29, 2017

It seems like almost every time there's a controversy about a kickstarted project, the point of contention has to do with the stretch goals.

It also seems like when I'm watching a kickstarter going through funding, the stretch goals always seem to be way too little money for what's being promised.

I suspect these two things are related. Developers need to be more realistic with their stretch goals.

DemWalls · Jan 29, 2017

justsomeguy said:
This is an utterly reprehensible post.

Didn't notice that one. I don't know, I haven't been there in ages, but as "problematic" as some users on the Codex may be, I do think they really know their stuff when it comes to RPGs. Has something changed recently?

CHC · Jan 29, 2017

This is honestly fine. It sounds like they have good enough reason for trimming this stuff down, and I personally feel that stretch goals do more harm than good. A few reasonably planned ones are fine, but when you're adding another game's worth of content, there is a real risk of shooting yourself in the foot.

Pillars of Eternity was especially bad with those gold-name NPCs. Terrible, terrible addition that really undermined the desire to talk to everyone and fully explore everything.

Lactose_Intolerant · Jan 29, 2017

Brashnir said:
It seems like almost every time there's a controversy about a kickstarted project, the point of contention has to do with the stretch goals.

It also seems like when I'm watching a kickstarter going through funding, the stretch goals always seem to be way too little money for what's being promised.

I suspect these two things are related. Developers need to be more realistic with their stretch goals.

I'm going to say it is actually the main game they lowball so they at least get funding for the game. Then they have to use the stretch goal money just to finish the game.

justsomeguy · Jan 29, 2017

DemWalls said:
Didn't notice that one. I don't know, I haven't been there in ages, but as "problematic" as some users on the Codex may be, I do think they really know their stuff when it comes to RPGs. Has something changed recently?

I have no idea what rpg codex is like (although some of the posts here make it sound like a shithole). I take issue with the insults to people with mental health issues & using that as a negative to denigrate others.

Brashnir · Jan 29, 2017

Lactose_Intolerant said:
I'm going to say it is actually the main game they lowball so they at least get funding for the game. Then they have to use the stretch goal money just to finish the game.

Sure, that happens, too - but if that was the case, I think you'd see the stretch goals go the other way - asking for more than they need in order to offset the difference.

I mean, Shovel Knight came out years ago, and they're still trying to meet their stretch goals.

mclem · Jan 29, 2017

Lister said:
Jeesus. Where did you get such a big brush. Would you mind painting my building? Shade of red, please.

ZombieSupaStar · Jan 29, 2017

DemWalls said:
Didn't notice that one. I don't know, I haven't been there in ages, but as "problematic" as some users on the Codex may be, I do think they really know their stuff when it comes to RPGs. Has something changed recently?

Not that I've seen, just the internet around them.

justsomeguy said:
I have no idea what rpg codex is like (although some of the posts here make it sound like a shithole). I take issue with the insults to people with mental health issues & using that as a negative to denigrate others.

basically a more grognard version of gaf devoted to CRPGs, where they hardly ban anyone.

hemtae · Jan 29, 2017

Lime said:
Is RPGCodex the Breitbart of video game communities?

The community is a cesspit a majority of the time but the news and editorial articles are pretty good.

DemWalls said:
Didn't notice that one. I don't know, I haven't been there in ages, but as "problematic" as some users on the Codex may be, I do think they really know their stuff when it comes to RPGs. Has something changed recently?

IMO, they've gotten noticeably worse since the whole gamergate thing where they developed a reputation of free speech which brought a pretty big influx of new users.

ubique · Jan 29, 2017

I'm okay with this I suppose. I've been feeling a little underwhelmed by basically every footage I've seen from the beta though

As for RPGCodex, there's a lot of good threads there, even if you often have to ignore posts similar to this one:

Stumpokapow said:
<Website Full Of Actual Social Cripples>

Mass_Pincup · Jan 29, 2017

Communication should be key in a Kickstarter. People already gave you money and the game is coming out soon, I don't see why they would just keep that to themselves and hope no one notices.

Stumpokapow said:
<Developer> We made a design decision

<Website Full Of Actual Social Cripples> DEVELOPER OUT OF CONTROL, SELLING LIES TO THE PUBLIC, NO MORE WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!!

Insulting people is allowed now?

finley83 · Jan 29, 2017

Lime said:
Is RPGCodex the Breitbart of video game communities?

I heard it described as Stormfront for wizards, if you like that analogy.

Messofanego · Jan 29, 2017

Lister said:
So my curiosity was peaked (just like after I heard about PCMR reddit) and again I wasn't seeing where the vitriol is coming from.

Read through their thread on Pillars, thread son other RPG's, etc.

Didnt' see anythign about niggers being hanged or anything gross like that. The discussions could have been lifted staight from NeoGaff or any other number of gaming forums.

This is what I don't like about painting entire communities with the same brush. Unless I just got lucky and only entered the handful of non racist threads, I'm going to call bullshit on this. Same deal with PCMR reddit. Went in expectin gradeschool level threads from butthurt Pc gamers wining about consoles... 99.9% of the threads were people showing off their PC setups. .01 percent were screenshots of stupid youtube comments from clueless console gamers.

Hell it was the SAME THING when I learned about NeoGaf. I was on another forum board where people were saying how gross NeoGaf was. That the entire community here were a bunch of elitists and snobs and even mentions of sexist attitudes.

Guess what I came, I joined, and I don't see much (or any really) of that at all. And yet some idiot son another forum where claiming all sort of shit about ALL of the NeoGaf community. Usually based on some off-topic thread they once visited.

You don't have to look hard at all to find the bad stuff, here's just a very recent thread about Tyranny and female characters:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...s-known-companions-are-female-discuss.111843/

"I think it'd help Obsidian's chances if they weren't forcing female characters at every turn. Everyone involved is fucking retarded. Paradox doesn't bother marketing and handicaps themselves with retarded decisions like moving the official forums, Obsidian is too obsessed with smiting shitlords and cis scum to realize that no one gives a shit about Tyranny."

"Well, I should say I never played with nigger paladin and Maneha. I just laughed them off and killed them at first sight."

"What sort of faggot would dislike having a personal harem while being the judge and executioner of a powerful state anyhow? It's delightful power fantasy whatever way you look at it."

"Stop projecting maybe since you're on the fag side here."

"No. It's the increasing presence of certain archetypes of females that are pushed by progressives. Merely reacting to aggression isn't pushing an agenda. There was no agenda to be pushed 20 years ago. I just want the status quo as was. Not this amalgamation of closet cuckolds."

"Also elves are effeminate faggots."

Although there is some self awareness

"Also holy moly some posts in this thread, slowly, but surely, turning into /pol/."

Dineren · Jan 29, 2017

So did InXile publicly announce the cancellation of the Italian localization? When I saw it mentioned in the thread I did some searching, but I can only find where support emailed backers after being questioned about it.

If that's the case I'm going to have to revise my opinion from earlier in the thread. Cutting a localization without announcing it is terrible (especially in a game like this). Offering refunds only as backers discover for themselves it was cut rather than being upfront and offering them in a public announcement is terrible. Maybe I just missed the announcement in my search, but if not that is incredibly shitty of them to treat their Italian backers like that.

Santiako · Jan 29, 2017

Cutting out Italian localisation less than a month out is pretty fucked up.

Lister · Jan 29, 2017

Messofanego said:
You don't have to look hard at all to find the bad stuff, here's just a very recent thread about Tyranny and female characters:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...s-known-companions-are-female-discuss.111843/

"I think it'd help Obsidian's chances if they weren't forcing female characters at every turn. Everyone involved is fucking retarded. Paradox doesn't bother marketing and handicaps themselves with retarded decisions like moving the official forums, Obsidian is too obsessed with smiting shitlords and cis scum to realize that no one gives a shit about Tyranny."

"Well, I should say I never played with nigger paladin and Maneha. I just laughed them off and killed them at first sight."

"What sort of faggot would dislike having a personal harem while being the judge and executioner of a powerful state anyhow? It's delightful power fantasy whatever way you look at it."

"Stop projecting maybe since you're on the fag side here."

"No. It's the increasing presence of certain archetypes of females that are pushed by progressives. Merely reacting to aggression isn't pushing an agenda. There was no agenda to be pushed 20 years ago. I just want the status quo as was. Not this amalgamation of closet cuckolds."

"Also elves are effeminate faggots."

Although there is some self awareness

"Also holy moly some posts in this thread, slowly, but surely, turning into /pol/."

Nice choice pickings... not very balanced. I see several posters on there countering the bullshit too.

Which proves my point about the wide brush.

I do agree some fo those comments should have resulted in instant bans.

Fjordson · Jan 29, 2017

Messofanego said:
You don't have to look hard at all to find the bad stuff, here's just a very recent thread about Tyranny and female characters:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...s-known-companions-are-female-discuss.111843/

"I think it'd help Obsidian's chances if they weren't forcing female characters at every turn. Everyone involved is fucking retarded. Paradox doesn't bother marketing and handicaps themselves with retarded decisions like moving the official forums, Obsidian is too obsessed with smiting shitlords and cis scum to realize that no one gives a shit about Tyranny."

"Well, I should say I never played with nigger paladin and Maneha. I just laughed them off and killed them at first sight."

"What sort of faggot would dislike having a personal harem while being the judge and executioner of a powerful state anyhow? It's delightful power fantasy whatever way you look at it."

"Stop projecting maybe since you're on the fag side here."

"No. It's the increasing presence of certain archetypes of females that are pushed by progressives. Merely reacting to aggression isn't pushing an agenda. There was no agenda to be pushed 20 years ago. I just want the status quo as was. Not this amalgamation of closet cuckolds."

"Also elves are effeminate faggots."

Although there is some self awareness

"Also holy moly some posts in this thread, slowly, but surely, turning into /pol/."

Codex is an absolute cesspool. I love cRPG's, but will always make it a point to avoid that shithole.

Lactose_Intolerant · Jan 29, 2017

Mass_Pincup said:
Insulting people is allowed now?

Have you been to the OT on gaf lately?

danthefan · Jan 29, 2017

Durante said:
No it was day/night cycles.

Ah right thanks.

Tbh that doesn't sound all that fun to me if it was in the game. Having to go searching for an NPC who could be in any number of places... Yeah I'm ok thanks.

I'm sure for a dev it would be very hard to implement too.

John Kowalski · Jan 29, 2017

Stumpokapow said:
<Developer> We made a design decision

<Website Full Of Actual Social Cripples> DEVELOPER OUT OF CONTROL, SELLING LIES TO THE PUBLIC, NO MORE WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!!

kinda fucked up dude

Eusis · Jan 29, 2017

Durante said:
That's all true. However, there are multiple good ways to deal with this:

Learn from other campaigns and don't promise things for money that you aren't certain you can keep. (Harebrained Schemes)

Seek additional funds and compromise on other aspects, but soldier through and deliver every single stretch goal. (Obsidian)

When you make the decision to cut some things, report that decision and its reasoning directly to your backers. (Larian)

What inXile has done is what a used car salesman would do: don't talk about the problem and hope no one notices. This is not a good way to deal with it, and making excuses for their behavior is unfair to all the other developers who chose better (and perhaps more uncomfortable!) options, and is also a bad incentive for betterment in the future.

It didn't bug me, but more I think about it I think I agree with this (well, and the Italian localization thing is a legit bad deal since that's less cutting a feature and more like cutting a region out.) I don't really care if they cut something if it's for good reason (pain in the ass to implement, quality over quantity, etc) but it'd be good to have more advance warning when it was promised in the campaign. Finding out within a month of release is poor form.

Moff · Jan 29, 2017

I already complained about the backer CE having less exciting stuff and being much more expensive than the retail CE, but I just read what the standard physical backers must suffer

backer physical box: 65$ + shipping (20$ outside the US)
it has the game and a printed manual

standard retail game (first edition): 49$, shipping included
- game, manual
- soundtrack
- printed map

oooook....

Deadbeat · Jan 29, 2017

Kem0sabe said:
The problem here is two-fold...

1. They used those stretch goals to get more money, then during development they cut those community funded features, spending money on things that werent in the KS, like the console version instead.

Id be pissed if I gave money for this game and they are hampering development for console versions.

But I dont back games on kickstarter so I avoid such problems. Live and learn.

Purkake4 · Jan 29, 2017

Deadbeat said:
Id be pissed if I gave money for this game and they are hampering development for console versions.

Fargo gonna Fargo.

Deadbeat · Jan 29, 2017

Purkake4 said:
Fargo gonna Fargo.

Name sounds familiar but it carries no weight with me. Infact if the only thing you got to sell me your game is decades old successes, you can forget it. What I see infront of me is what I care about.

What im gleaming from threads like these are red flags.

Sarek · Jan 29, 2017

duckroll said:
If there are 6 companions and more coming later via free DLC I'm fine with it. If there are 4 I would riot lol.

I very much doubt we will see all three companions coming later, and to be fair Swarchz isn't even promising that. He is just saying that any DLC released later would be free to backers. I mean apparently they are such a huge undertaking that they have only been able to finish 6 out of the 9 promised companions during the almost four year development cycle.

This has incident has certainly lowered my already shaky trust in inXile. I could have understood having to cut content, but trying to hide something as integral to this kinda of game as cutting third of the promised companions just seem very shady. I doubt I'll back their projects again any time soon and I'm kinda glad now that I didn't back W3. Obsidian, Larian and HS have shown how to handle these KS RPGs right.

Purkake4 · Jan 29, 2017

Deadbeat said:
Name sounds familiar but it carries no weight with me. Infact if the only thing you got to sell me your game is decades old successes, you can forget it. What I see infront of me is what I care about.

What im gleaming from threads like these are red flags.

Plenty of great games have come out of kickstarter, I think More_Badass is keeping the list somewhere.

SOME-MIST · Jan 29, 2017

Mass_Pincup said:
Insulting people is allowed now?

Tho I do agree it's nothing to rage about, he's just projecting much like a socially inept manchild would

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