Schnozberry
Member
There's zero chance the Switch has 4 SM's. That would be ready apparent the photos we are looking at today. It would be a much larger chip.
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A Nintendo Switch has been taken apart
- Thread starter Dystify
- Start date
Deeke[VRZ]
Member
More Switch RAM info:
I couldn't find exact frequencies for the K4F6E304HB-MGCH LPDDR4 modules, but I did find speeds for a K4F6E304HA-MGCH module, which are in 2GB densities.
Density 2GB
Organization x32 (2CS,2CKE)
Speed(Mbps) 1600MHz
Package 200-FBGA-10.0X15.0
Temperature(C) none
Production Status Preparation
These modules could be very much alike.They are built on the same 200-FBGA platform and have the same 16Gb (2GB) densities.
In fact, I'm thinking the "B" series is a derivative.
https://memorylink.samsung.com/ecom...4HA-MGCH&partSetNo=LPDDR4&partSetLabel=LPDDR4
I couldn't find exact frequencies for the K4F6E304HB-MGCH LPDDR4 modules, but I did find speeds for a K4F6E304HA-MGCH module, which are in 2GB densities.
Density 2GB
Organization x32 (2CS,2CKE)
Speed(Mbps) 1600MHz
Package 200-FBGA-10.0X15.0
Temperature(C) none
Production Status Preparation
These modules could be very much alike.They are built on the same 200-FBGA platform and have the same 16Gb (2GB) densities.
In fact, I'm thinking the "B" series is a derivative.
https://memorylink.samsung.com/ecom...4HA-MGCH&partSetNo=LPDDR4&partSetLabel=LPDDR4
LordOfChaos
Member
Agreed, and to pre-empt anyone suggesting it would go in the space saved by removal of four Cortex A53s, those are 0.7mm2 on 20nm, so no. There's not much more you could remove to fit so many more shaders in at the same die size. 256 shaders seems pretty sure.
Well, don't most phones on the market struggle to reach the "four hour of screentime under heavy use sweetspot"?
Xdrive05
Member
Can anyone here speak to the likelihood of embedded sdram (or whatever it would be called), and especially if it would/could fit in the space where the A53s were removed?
Because that's a very "Nintendo like" customization, especially if we're thinking stock ass 25gbps bandwidth.
And really I look at stuff like Fast RMX and Mario Kart 8D, and I don't see how they could get that performance with such bandwidth.
Because that's a very "Nintendo like" customization, especially if we're thinking stock ass 25gbps bandwidth.
And really I look at stuff like Fast RMX and Mario Kart 8D, and I don't see how they could get that performance with such bandwidth.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I can be wrong but I believe eDRAM would be too big to fit in the space of the removed A53s. If I remember right the 32megs of eDRAM in the Wii U was like the biggest thing on the chip.
Buggy Loop
Member
I was thinking the same thing in my earlier post and for the fun of it i wanted to see if any tegra ever had 4SM to compare.
Well actually they have a 512 core tegra coming up, Xavier.
(1) Not that i think it's possible
(2) I'm not saying Switch is pascal or volta
but the size difference between a Xavier 512 cores on the right vs a Parker's 256 cores on the left (bottom SoCs in that setup), are on first impression, identical..
LordOfChaos
Member
Xavier isn't on 20nm. Wouldn't think too much on the render, it's not even a render of the chips under the IHS. The GPU on TX1 is the largest block, doubling it has to go somewhere. Not enough stuff to remove to get to there.
Captain_Wreckus
Member
All I gotta say is keep it up with the switch talk guys & gals as its going to make the last week & and a bit go by fast.
It doesn't need quick charge. USB-C uses PD or power delivery. PD can provide up to 100W of power through 5 voltage level.
5V/3A = Up to 15W - Most USB-C smart phone uses this and maxed out at this level for safety and temperature reasons. The Nintendo switch itself most likely charge at this level since it takes 3 hours to charge it's 4000mAH battery.
9V/3A = Up to 27W
12V/3A = Up to 36W
15V/3A = Up to 45W < This is what Nintendo Switch Dock uses.
20V/3A = Up to 60W
20V/5A = Up to 100W < You need USB-C cable that's made for 5A, they have chips called emarker in them to identify that they can handle 5A. All non-5A cable must be able to meet 3A minimum.
Charging at higher voltage level isn't necessarily good for batteries too because the amount of heat and wear/tear(though negligible) it causes on the battery.
Naw TX1 is 2SM, 256 cores. 4SM would be 512 cores.
Personally i think it's not possible, at least not in the same form factor as the new shield android TV (2017) that we saw in this thread. 2SM -> 4SM with nearly identical sizes? Maybe someone more technical could clear things up, but i don't think that's even possible.
16nmFF is roughly the same density as 20nm, where would they fit 2 more SM in there?
Thanks for the clarification. Even though I was off with regard to the # of cuda cores per SM, Nintendo's version most likely isn't going to have more than 256 cores.
Both the Maxwell-based Tegra X1 (Erista) and the Pascal-based Tegra (Parker) have 256 cores.
It's only with Xavier (with Volta GPU architecture) that the # of cuda cores gets doubled to 512 (so 4 SMs) along with doubling the # of CPU cores from 4 to 8,
Unless the Nintendo chip is so heavily custom they've gotten Nvidia to cram 512 maxwell / pascal cores into it. Something I highly, highly doubt.
Buggy Loop
Member
But 16nmFF ~ 20nm, almost same density. They fit 512 cores for GPU in there with 8 core CPU ArmV8 ? I mean yeah the chip is not ready, but size wise..
Those Tegra X1 on drive PX
vs Xavier
Really, i'm just trying to wrap my head around SoC similarities with 2x the # of cores. 16nmFF vs 20nm is not the sole explanation.
We need a banana for scale! Quick someone put the chips scaled vs Jen-Hsun Huang's head!
Buggy Loop
Member
What is being said in those cellphones discussions? Anyone can translate?
Its Quite Toasty
Banned
All games run at 1060fps and it has 875 gflops what more is there to understand. it's a dream machine.
It seems like people just switch between the switch being a tablet or a console depending on what side of the fence they are on. Its a hybrid and as such its going to have critics hit it on both sides. That's well within their right
Here is a Wii U for comparison
The wii u was only released about 3 years and 2 months ago. Its a testament to technology that they can fit more than twice the power of the Wii U into an infinitely smaller design
Four years and three months ago, you mean.
Smurfman256
Member
Yeah, when they're not shoehorning 20 year old iMacs into the current-gen console race.
Wii U was released about 4 years and 3 months ago (November 2012).
Wii U was revealed about 5 years and 8 months ago (June 2011 at E3).
Lol, thats shitty. Where did the time go? I remember everyone freaking out about that bird and zelda demo like it was yesterday
wonderfuldays
Member
It is Tegra X1-Nintendo customized version confirmed right?
Where does this rumor keep coming from? Quick Charge is a Qualcomm trademark, it doesn't matter that it doesn't have it. It still charges quickly - it has a USB-PD charger capable of nearly 40W ffs. This is twice what any 'Quick Charge' cell phone charges at.
Do people care that much about a brand name? Nvidia isn't going to use a competitor's brand.
We don't know yetIt is Tegra X1-Nintendo customized version confirmed right?
Schnozberry
Member
What matters is the size of the actual silicon underneath those heat spreaders. 256 additional shader cores along with 4 additional ARM cores would make for an amazing chip, but it ain't happening in a portable games console in 2017. Battery technology will have to improve, along with lithography and fabrication techniques to improve power efficiency. Maybe next round.
A few thoughts:
This is a "prototype" unit for Fcc which was done on August 3rd, that means this is the July devkits we have here. Nothing more.
The 32GB of internal storage would be fine given this isn't a final devkit which might have offered more and is why it is removable as they weren't sure what they were doing yet.
The Foxconn test with the high clocks happened on final hardware, that couldn't be done on 20nm because the cpu clock is just too high, however it might not be final cpu clock speed because they might have wanted to stress the system a bit? Though that last part is speculative, I would also suggest that the 921mhz number is final for the GPU.
I was originally wondering why it would use 2 chip modules for 64bit bandwidth, but this is almost certainly the July devkit which we know used a modified X1 with 64bit bandwidth so this fits.
This isn't a later devkit because they wouldn't hold the chip until the end of October to release the next devkit.
The clock increase on the cpu could be because developers told Nintendo it was too low when they gave the clocks for launch, so they changed it to make someone happy, if they are willing to add memory, they are willing to shrink the soc die.
Stop the pascal nonsense, x1 on 16nm is basically pascal in terms of performance. X1 is a prototype pascal chip anyways, with many of the architecture changes that pascal received.
Lastly, I find it interesting that they would have space for 2 memory chips on the board when one would be cheaper, use less energy and be a simpler design.
This is a "prototype" unit for Fcc which was done on August 3rd, that means this is the July devkits we have here. Nothing more.
The 32GB of internal storage would be fine given this isn't a final devkit which might have offered more and is why it is removable as they weren't sure what they were doing yet.
The Foxconn test with the high clocks happened on final hardware, that couldn't be done on 20nm because the cpu clock is just too high, however it might not be final cpu clock speed because they might have wanted to stress the system a bit? Though that last part is speculative, I would also suggest that the 921mhz number is final for the GPU.
I was originally wondering why it would use 2 chip modules for 64bit bandwidth, but this is almost certainly the July devkit which we know used a modified X1 with 64bit bandwidth so this fits.
This isn't a later devkit because they wouldn't hold the chip until the end of October to release the next devkit.
The clock increase on the cpu could be because developers told Nintendo it was too low when they gave the clocks for launch, so they changed it to make someone happy, if they are willing to add memory, they are willing to shrink the soc die.
Stop the pascal nonsense, x1 on 16nm is basically pascal in terms of performance. X1 is a prototype pascal chip anyways, with many of the architecture changes that pascal received.
Lastly, I find it interesting that they would have space for 2 memory chips on the board when one would be cheaper, use less energy and be a simpler design.
It is Tegra X1-Nintendo customized version confirmed right?
I mean, this picture is the equivalent of showing someone two pieces of paper with scribbles on them and asking if both were drawn by the same pen.
metalslimer
Member
The wiiu was outdated upon release though. I'm still pretty impressed on where we are in mobile tech, especially the jump they are making from 3ds to Switch
KidGalactus
Member
4 years, 3 months.
Yeah the switch doesn't seem to be outdated, even with July devkits and eurogamer's clocks, it would be very similar to the ps4 in terms of tech used at time of release when form factor is taken into account. The pixel c for instance seems to throttle heavy after just a few minutes.
Switch more than doubling the gpu performance when docked is pretty great.
Lastly for anyone wondering what the comparison to wii u is, with eurogamer's clocks, the raw performance of maxwell chip with 157gflops is about 60% faster than wii u and ~4 times faster when docked. We see this with fast racing port, who is likely the only developer pushing both wii u and switch on their architectures.
With Foxconn, the undocked performance is 100% faster and close to 5 times wii u when docked. I'm not talking about mixed precision but games made in engines that take advantage of it, especially automatically would improve drastically and can really make a large difference, pushing even the eurogamer clocks of an undocked switch to around 160% faster than wii u.
We are going to hear a lot about mixed precision over the next few years, with AMD going all out with fp8 even thrown around, (don't expect it to be used for much but fp16 is viable for all pixel work afaik)
Engines will get more and more automated with pixel shader code and post processing effects, pushing fp16. It wouldn't surprise me for switch games in 2019 to look like they were made on a different device altogether.
Other than the useless bullshit about poorly treated and pissed off ex-employee that didn't have to sign a NDA and bleh bleh.
In standby mode, the thing runs at 314MHz CPU clock speed and 275MHz GPU clock speed. Keep in mind that that's standby mode speed, not operational.
When doing a benchmark called Julia running at 480x360, the FPS is 267FPS, whereas the PSVita benched at 82FPS. The combined CPU and GPU power is at about 375.06 GFLOPS.
After docking(I assume that's what the person is trying to say with the follow up information,) the CPU is running at 2.1GHz with the GPU maxing out at 1005 MHz. The benchmark ran at 806FPS@875.66GFLOPS CPU and GPU combined whereas the X1 ran at 1060FPS, PS4 at 1349 FPS, and the PS4Pro at 2983FPS..
VegaShinra
Junior Member
So it supports what is shown here?
yes
I feel very old
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKlRN2YpxRE
And this pearl, at 1080p/60 FPS no matter wat.
FutureProtagonist
Neo Member
The odds are much worse than that.
The current-gen NVIDIA Shield only comes with the X1 - they haven't got anything better right now, nor anytime soon. If there's some great Pascal or Volta Tegra coming any time soon, NV wouldn't be releasing a new Shield until it's ready. They're so stuck on this Tegra business that they have two Shield generations using the same Tegra SoC, one of them that's only been out for a month, while the first has been out for almost two years.
The Switch isn't coming with a magical new Tegra chip or a magical GTX 1060 in the dock.
if they get it on release day, they're usually pretty fast. a few days?
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Yeah, the picture above isn't a retail switch, we have nothing to confirm it. Volta has been announced and could match what we see there, but don't expect it until a revision. The New Switch would be pushing 1tflops, and 1.7tflops in mixed precision. Holiday 2018 is the earliest you should expect something like this.
The enhanced dock is in the Foxconn leak, so not a throw away, but it isn't what you are getting on the 3rd, that doesn't mean we won't get it though, making 2000 of them means they are at least giving them to developers as devkits, and there have been rumors to support it.
Broken Hope
Member
Just out of interest, why do people repeatedly say they don't want a powerhouse console from Nintendo, that they would prefer they did their own thing and then spend many, many pages trying to work out if Nintendo have some hidden hardware, or if their hardware is actually more powerful than it first seems?
They did the same for the Wii U and now the Switch, I thought hardware power didn't matter?
They did the same for the Wii U and now the Switch, I thought hardware power didn't matter?
lwilliams3
Member
Those GPU numbers sounds strange. The X1's system clock is 76.8MHz, so I would have expected the clockspeeds to adjust to numbers divisible by that. Both the Eurogamer and foxcon report used GPU numbers that was divisible by 76.8, so I have doubts.
It's not x1, this isn't the retail switch, it's something else if real. So those clocks don't apply.
BlastProcessing
Member
Is it the same people? Do you have any examples?