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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again
- Thread starter Sumio Mondo
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Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I'm almost thinking there's something up with the Arm Doppelganger saying "Non-exist-ent" before Cooper goes through what may be the strangest series of scenes in the whole series, like falling through space, floating in the box, and the
. I don't really know quite what I might take it to mean, but I feel like it's foreshadowing something or another. Like maybe Cooper or wherever he is or something like that doesn't really exist, but I can't figure out what. I feel like it's a clue that something we're seeing doesn't really exist though.
The dialogue in the Black Lodge is almost always important, and I figure there's a reason the Arm's Doppelganger came and made a scene with Cooper before sending him flying through space or something. I also think it's interesting that the Arm's Doppelganger seems to have some different agenda to the rest of the Lodge members, who seem pretty in-tune with each other.
, so I almost feel like Arm Doppelganger knows something the rest of them don't, but expresses it like some terrifying tree fiend.
Purple Place stuff
The dialogue in the Black Lodge is almost always important, and I figure there's a reason the Arm's Doppelganger came and made a scene with Cooper before sending him flying through space or something. I also think it's interesting that the Arm's Doppelganger seems to have some different agenda to the rest of the Lodge members, who seem pretty in-tune with each other.
And the other Lodge members advice, plans and stuff failed because of Mr. C's plan for a replacement to send in his stead
DataStream
Member
I think the show looks great. There are elements where he plays up the digital format and abuses it but he did the same thing with film (overexposure, light leaks, etc.).
Was actually pretty impressed by how gorgeous most of it looks as I expected Inland Empire style filming. There are hints of that in the overly digital bits but way more refined.
Was actually pretty impressed by how gorgeous most of it looks as I expected Inland Empire style filming. There are hints of that in the overly digital bits but way more refined.
I was looking at this thread on reddit earlier today about the
King Arthur symbolism
This post in particular really got me thinking:
It's a really interesting theory
Hopefully she got sucked back up into heaven, albeit in a very painful looking way.
iShouldGoPro
Member
Let's play a fun game.
It's called "Count How Many Times Jade Says the Word Dougie in Episode 3"
It's called "Count How Many Times Jade Says the Word Dougie in Episode 3"
Dougie and Sonny Jim are such funny names.
Whatever it was, I hope that doesn't happen to me.
Bob isn't still in the Lodge. He doesn't appear in a single one of the many Lodge scenes, never mind his looking back at the doppelganger in the mirror at the end of S2. "You are going back in, and I will be with Bob again." If Bob is already in the lodge, then what does it matter whether or not the doppelganger goes back in?
I'm assuming Jeffries' (or whomever) phrasing in that line, as opposed to saying something "You and Bob need to go back," is partly just flowery dialogue, but partly to emphasize that the doppelganger is not a real person, just a vessel for Bob. The doppelganger has to be returned to the lodge for Jeffries to be reunited with Bob. If the doppelganger and Bob are completely separate entities, then I don't really know what returning the former to the lodge has to do with returning the latter to the lodge, too.
Not sure if this has been posted already but the Twin Peaks Rewarxh podcast is back to cover the new season. Good listen so far
https://www.idlethumbs.net/twinpeaks/
https://www.idlethumbs.net/twinpeaks/
CharminUltra
Member
Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| James is still cool.
brandonh83
Banned
I'm confused by Dougie in general,
like people know him and he's with Watts and has a kid but they don't really seem to question why he's acting so braindead. It feels like he's been around for years like anyone else with his own life. I thought the Red Room had just sorta spat him out but there's so much craziness in the first four eps that I don't even really remember his first scene or where he came from
Tranqueris
Banned
Isn't Bobby supposed to be living happily ever after or something, according to that vision his father had?
sackboy2197
Member
I'm a bit confused as to why she was in the Red Room in the first place honestly. The end of FWWM implied that se "got away", so to speak.
That scene has stuck me with more than anything else I think. Seeing her after so long and then seemingly painfully punished for it.I asked but I don't think it ever really sparked any discussion. Certainly seemed unpleasant.
I thought it's implied that Dougie
was constructed by Cooper's doppelganger as a decoy for when he is summoned back in the Red Room, including placing the ring on Dougie. It seemed to have worked. The one-armed man as well mentioned it was a decoy.
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah. I got that much but if he's
just a creation/manufacturing how does he have a normal life? Dougie would have to be a normal dude living his own life out there for him to have a family and friends and shit
Also just rewatched most of 2, man the last scenes in the bar with that song and those characters is so perfect.
31GhostsIV
Banned
The wait for episode 5 is excruciating. I need more.
brandonh83
Banned
Ok still rewatching so basically
?
EDIT: I'm going with that
Dougie was a real dude but got replaced by real Cooper and went to the RR and now the real Cooper is out of the RR and Dougie is now a pearl and they both happen to look the same for no reason other than that so Dougie's friends can think it's him. What does the pearl transformation mean and how did real Cooper get out of the RR
EDIT: I'm going with that
dreamscape theory because that makes the most sense and reading that Reddit thread someone mentioned the casino worker that gave him the change looks like she has an owl cave ring on...she DOES have it on
Except this doesn't make any sense because Bob was not in Bad Coop at this time. If anything he possessed the school principal.
Plus if "Jeffries" meant that, then how the well would Jeffries use a phone in the real world ? He wasn't in the lodge.
Bob and Bad Coop have clearly been working together and it's possible he's temporarily a vessel of bob, but we haven't seen any of that currently happening (the only instance being S2 finale). And he is certainly not the only vessel of Bob so making Bad Coop special doesn't make any sense here. Especially not if Jeffries has his doppelganger in the wild.
Nothing stops Bob from going out and possessing people if Bad Coop goes back.
Maybe Jeffries just meant that Coop became Bob's sidekick and supplanted him. So that Jeffries becomes the partner again.
The point is though, Coop is not Bob. He hasn't said or done anything that reeks of Bob yet. He's his own evil self.
It's not an owl ring I believe ?
And Dougie was
"manufactured" so he's not a real dude.
brandonh83
Banned
It looks a lot like the owl ring. I froze it on stills where you can see it well and it's extremely similar.
As far as Dougie goes was he
?
As far as Dougie goes was he
manufactured from birth or something
I believe somebody here provided a clear screenshot and the ring wasn't the owl ring.
Can be mistaken.
Dougie was probably manufactured 25 years ago and surfaced as a John Doe. Or I guess since birth since the time in the Red Room isn't linear, but that'd be a bit cringe.
It's hell, but at least we don't have to suffer alone.
I'm not a fan of this theory.
The whole subplot is so goofy and Coop's supernatural powers are so mundane, it kinda needs grounding in "our reality" to save it from feeling inconsequential.
Also, that's not the same ring.
Owl Cave ring: http://i.imgur.com/xBgop0y.png
The other (Jesus Fish?) ring: http://i.imgur.com/MqujUlW.png
Also, that's not the same ring.
Owl Cave ring: http://i.imgur.com/xBgop0y.png
The other (Jesus Fish?) ring: http://i.imgur.com/MqujUlW.png
The same way the lodge folk could send a message to Major Briggs's "deep space" monitoring equipment.
Also:
And then there's the shot of phone lines when Jeffries disappears in Fire Walk With Me.
But that doesn't make sense either, if evil Jeffries is in the lodge then the real one should be free.
On top of that, Bob is still doing his Bob thing of possessing multiple people, so what does Coop going back have to do with that ? Bob could do it before, he can do it now, Coop going back wouldn't change it.
Why was Cooper desperately seeking assistance from the Lodge guys and not Bob directly ?
Wouldn't Bob do all he can to avoid Cooper being sent back ?
It seems everybody knew of the 25 years time limit so Bob had to know too, yet he was off playing ghosts in the meanwhile.
Doesn't add up to me.
It's entirely possible that Bob got out "permanently" thanks to Cooper's doppelganger, but it's also obvious he is not currently in Cooper and is off somewhere else. So calling him Bob Cooper still doesn't make any sense (which is how this debate started).
I didn't say anything about a good or evil Jeffries, or Bob for that matter.
I'm just saying that sending messages between worlds has already been established in the show - even Windom Earle could do it (via Sarah). As was the connection between the "spirits" and phone lines - with the Arm's sound and some vague visual association with real Jeffries's disappearance.
brandonh83
Banned
Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up with the ring. Seemed like it from a distance.
Robot Pants
Member
Hahaa you dick
That scene has stuck me with more than anything else I think. Seeing her after so long and then seemingly painfully punished for it.
Coop will find her. He promised.
CelticKnight
Member
If Dougie
is in an alternate world/dreamscape-like place, how do the two hired goons who were gonna bump him off fit in? How can two randoms be hired to kill someone who doesn't technically "exist"?
Just rewatch the last episode of Season 2 and you'll be good. It will jog your memory.
Pilot, finale and FWWM should do it. Maybe S2E7 as well just because it's so incredible.
I'd also add the pilot and FWWM, so:
Pilot
Ep. 29
FWWM
And check out some of the best of the missing pieces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=025uhUtbMvw
Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| Thank you Mr GAFpots
It's hard to say since we don't know where the show is going. So far, Fire Walk With Me appears to be the most relevant, most often referenced part. Rewatching the finale couldn't hurt.
The Missing Pieces are interesting, but not essential... at least for now.
Miles Quaritch
Member
The tonal shift from episodes 1 and 2 to 3 and 4 is giving me whiplash.
Goddamn.
Speaking of, what's spoiler etiquette for discussing 3 and 4? Spoiler tags until next week?
Goddamn.
Speaking of, what's spoiler etiquette for discussing 3 and 4? Spoiler tags until next week?
Spoiler tags until they air.
mariachi507
Member
On the DoppelCooper/BobCoop debate. I've assumed that Bob and the doppelganger were one in the same ever since I first saw the series finale years back, and I thought that was the general consensus until I started seeing otherwise in this thread in the past couple of days. To the argument that there isn't any evidence to support that theory, I would say there is more evidence to support it than there is to discredit it.
-Bob has been seen in mirrors ever since the Pilot episode. However, the final scene in the series finale when Bob is revealed as Bad Cooper's reflection is presented exactly in the same way that the Leland/Bob mirror reveal was.
-In both of the mirror reveals in the original series, the movements of Bob/Coop and Bob/Leland mirror each other exactly indicating to me that Bad Cooper is possessed just as Leland was.
-Bad Coops appearance in the new series reminds me of Bob with the long hair and clothing I could see Bob wearing.
-The dialogue in episode 2 between Bad Coop and Jeffries(Whoever) presents the idea that Bad Coop and Bob are definitely connected somehow.
-Where it gets tricky is when factoring in how the doppelgangers work. What I know is that the good Dale was stuck in the Lodge while the bad Dale is the one who escaped. What is the connection between Bob and the doppelgangers? Are the doppelgangers basically a part of Bob or a representation of Bob?
-If so, does this mean that the Leland we all knew, loved, and feared was his Doppelganger while his good version was stuck in the Black Lodge? Then whats up with the line in the finale where the Bad Leland says, "I never killed anybody."? I always thought that served to muddy Leland's innocence in the murder of Laura.
Truth be told, my honest take is that at one point Bob strictly worked in a possession since but Lynch decided to bring in Doppelgangers in the finale just because he does whatever the fuck he wants. The only way to put this Cooper/Bob thing to rest is to hope that they expand on it a bit this season. Unfortunately, Frank Silva is long gone so no mirror scenes or reveals with him can be used (Unless they digitally add him). What we really need is Phillip Gerard to show up, have his meds withheld, and put him next Bad Coop and see what happens.
-Bob has been seen in mirrors ever since the Pilot episode. However, the final scene in the series finale when Bob is revealed as Bad Cooper's reflection is presented exactly in the same way that the Leland/Bob mirror reveal was.
-In both of the mirror reveals in the original series, the movements of Bob/Coop and Bob/Leland mirror each other exactly indicating to me that Bad Cooper is possessed just as Leland was.
-Bad Coops appearance in the new series reminds me of Bob with the long hair and clothing I could see Bob wearing.
-The dialogue in episode 2 between Bad Coop and Jeffries(Whoever) presents the idea that Bad Coop and Bob are definitely connected somehow.
-Where it gets tricky is when factoring in how the doppelgangers work. What I know is that the good Dale was stuck in the Lodge while the bad Dale is the one who escaped. What is the connection between Bob and the doppelgangers? Are the doppelgangers basically a part of Bob or a representation of Bob?
-If so, does this mean that the Leland we all knew, loved, and feared was his Doppelganger while his good version was stuck in the Black Lodge? Then whats up with the line in the finale where the Bad Leland says, "I never killed anybody."? I always thought that served to muddy Leland's innocence in the murder of Laura.
Truth be told, my honest take is that at one point Bob strictly worked in a possession since but Lynch decided to bring in Doppelgangers in the finale just because he does whatever the fuck he wants. The only way to put this Cooper/Bob thing to rest is to hope that they expand on it a bit this season. Unfortunately, Frank Silva is long gone so no mirror scenes or reveals with him can be used (Unless they digitally add him). What we really need is Phillip Gerard to show up, have his meds withheld, and put him next Bad Coop and see what happens.
But Bob is in Doppelganger Cooper as we saw in the S2 Finale, not in the real Cooper.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Thanks.
I feel I need to watch them both again just so I have a firm grasp on what happened and where the show is going next.
One thing... episode 4 I think...
that was David Duchovney as Theresa right?
mariachi507
Member
Exactly. We really don't know how it works yet, but I'm going to assume that DoppelCooper and Bob are directly related or one in the same until shown otherwise.
Here is a recap that will help you out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxUC8QH8miU&t=96s
Those guys would exist in the same reality, just like everyone he'd be "dreaming up."
I'm not on board with this theory until they establish that the red room can be filled with characters and creatures originating from dreams or alternate realities.
I'm not on board with this theory until they establish that the red room can be filled with characters and creatures originating from dreams or alternate realities.
This is what Lynch had to say on the subject a long time ago, in two separate interviews (I believe both quotes come from the book Lynch on Lynch, published in 1993):
mariachi507
Member
Neat. What I take from this is that Bad Coop carries Bob with him. He is Bad Coop but at the same time he is also Bob.
One thing I forgot to mention was that during the Black Lodge sequences in the first two episodes the only known spirit that we don't encounter is Bob (yeah the actor is dead, but he could possibly show up in other forms like the arm does). While that could be an unfortunate coincidence, it also supports Bob being free with Bad Coop.
Yeah Lynch edited them. I'm not sure why he would put those scenes in if he didn't consider them canon.
My take is that
these goons were hired by Bad Cooper in case Real Cooper got indeed switched with Dougie, so Coop got taken out. I also don't buy the whole dreamscape thing.
God damn it I had no idea Frank Silva died.
Ffs.
I also was unaware of those Lynch quotes, so it's a pleasant surprise to see what I said wasn't nonsense after all .
They might trap bob while he's possessing somebody and get rid of him later on... they can write Jeffries out but they can't do that to Bob.
Ffs.
I also was unaware of those Lynch quotes, so it's a pleasant surprise to see what I said wasn't nonsense after all
.They might trap bob while he's possessing somebody and get rid of him later on... they can write Jeffries out but they can't do that to Bob.
Lord Frieza
Member
She said she'd see him again in 25 years, time in these places doesn't seem linear, so she may both have gone to heaven and still be there for her meeting with him.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
It's a kind of grey area. They're under no obligation to remain consistent with the missing pieces. Are they really going to explain how the ring went from that nurse to Dougie?
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