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Curt Schilling's '38 Studios' lays off entire staff, Big Huge Games to be closed

M

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
CommonSense said:
Hell, fame is blinding...even to your (i think) policy makers. Chalk it up as a shit idea....at the very least they tried to think outside the box.
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I'm trying to think of this colossally bad desicion by the RI financiers from their perspective for a moment...it's very possible that they were mislead about the viability of MMO games and were just sold on the profitability of your average AAA game to get this loan going. I don't expect these guys to know the industry. I do expect them to do their research, though.
 
A

Attackthebase

Member
HoosTrax said:
Isn't hundreds of employees kind of big for a single-IP studio?
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You would think, and I would have been skeptical to hear those number if it wasn't for certain games having 250 developers working on them (Epic Mickey being the clear example).

Would have been better to turn Copernicus into another single-player RPG. That would have prevented so much of their resources being spent into a black hole.
 
R

remnant

Banned
LegendofJoe said:
There is a lot going on here that isn't known. I don't trust that 3 million figure. Is the Gov including the operating costs of developing the MMO along with that of KoA?
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Of course he is. This game is built off a game BHG was already working on.

People should keep in mind this gov was vocally against this loan and this is kind of a boon for him politically.
 
R

rdrr gnr

Member
I've read a few pages and is the general consensus the MMO killed them? Not Amalur? Of course I feel for the employees, but I absolutely have no sympathy for the company if that is truly the case.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
This is a shame. I had hoped that 38 studios would end up being a game studio that actually listened to it's fans. I really enjoyed amalur too. So much potential. Really disapointed to hear this.
 
R

remnant

Banned
MuseManMike said:
I've read a few pages and is the general consensus the MMO killed them? Not Amalur? Of course I feel for the employees, but I absolutely have no sympathy if that is truly the case.
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To be fair it's the 75 million dollar loan that killed them. They could have made an expensive single player game and died as well.

The loan forced them to expand to fast. in many ways that loan forced them to make an MMO because an rpg alone wouldn't force them to make that many hiring goals. It's a bad loan, a bad buisness plan and just plain bad luck.
 
D

DTKT

Member
MuseManMike said:
I've read a few pages and is the general consensus the MMO killed them? Not Amalur? Of course I feel for the employees, but I absolutely have no sympathy for the company if that is truly the case.
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That seems likely. The MMO went nowhere and was a huge time and money sinkhole. It doesn't help that they had 400 employees.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
Attackthebase said:
I remember how supportive I was with Curt when Reckoning came out. But now his idiotic ways fucked 38 Studios and Big Huge Games. I feel bad for the employees and Rhode Island, but I have no sympathy for Schilling. Fuck that man.

1.2 million is a fantastic number for a new IP. If it wasn't for the mismanagement of funds (and the MMO), hundreds of employees would still have their jobs.
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Can you elaborate on his "idiotic ways'?
 
R

rdrr gnr

Member
I see. Thanks guys.

It's hard not to reflect on the state of the industry and be a little down, regardless of whether or not this studio deserves to be around.
 
V

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
My heart sank when I heard this news earlier. Can't believe how fast this all happened.
 
E

Eusis

Member
HoosTrax said:
Unless you're a Microsoft millionaire.
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I think coming from a tech background helped a lot to understand what was/wasn't feasible to do. Thus, a comparatively modest FPS rather than a massive MMO, NOW Valve is in the position to pull something like that (and likely has been for years.)
 
T

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
That's a real shame. Kingdoms of Amalur seemed pretty decent.
 
F

fenners

Member
ZenaxPure said:
Rumor? Someone was quoting the press conference when they said that, right?

I haven't watched it myself, though, so I don't know.
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It's based on the state's statements which are wrong on this by all accounts. BHG was not an expensive purchase, nor were they high overhead. It's the MMO that sunk this, not Reckoning.
 
J

Jharp

Member
Big Huge too?

Goddammit, does this mean I'm not getting my fucking PS3 patch to fix that sound syncing issue? It's pretty goddamn annoying.
 
P

PeteZaTheHutt

Member
Derrick01 said:
This industry is doomed then. The game wasn't even that huge or impressive looking.
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The game IS huge. I've played over 220 hours so far and I haven't even reached the eastern part of the continent across the river. Judging by the amount of real estate that I've covered during the first 200+ hours, I anticipate that my entire playthrough will easily go beyond 300 hours. And I anticipate that I WILL finish it because this game is loads of fun. It's a massive shame that things have come to this...
 
F

Flambe

Member
Wow, that fucking sucks for employees and RI taxpayers.

No notice about the late/nonexistent paycheques and expiring insurance is fucked up.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
PeteZaTheHutt said:
The game IS huge. I've played over 220 hours so far and I haven't even reached the eastern part of the continent across the river. Judging by the amount of real estate that I've covered during the first 200+ hours, I anticipate that my entire playthrough will easily go beyond 300 hours. And I anticipate that I WILL finish it because this game is loads of fun. It's a massive shame that things have come to this...
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How the hell is that even possible? I did just about everything in 70 hours.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I don't think they took the loan knowing the game wouldn't be made and they'd run out of money. Shit happens, snags come up, deadlines get missed.

400+ employees blows through 49 million awfully quick (remember $49m was what was spent, not the full $75m as the remainder was left for other things).

They probably knew at some point they were fucked, and hoped that the state would deliver more funds or they'd find other funds from the outside. They aren't going to tell employees they are fucked until they have no other choice, it seems heartless, but that's business.

The interesting part will be what happens to the work that's been done.. someone might pick up where it left off on the cheap and we may still see this.. depends on how far from complete it was.
 
H

Hanzou

Member
PeteZaTheHutt said:
The game IS huge. I've played over 220 hours so far and I haven't even reached the eastern part of the continent across the river. Judging by the amount of real estate that I've covered during the first 200+ hours, I anticipate that my entire playthrough will easily go beyond 300 hours. And I anticipate that I WILL finish it because this game is loads of fun. It's a massive shame that things have come to this...
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yeah Im pretty sure you are the slowest player ever haha. No way does the game take that long.
 
C

CountAntonius

Member
This is nice of them...

dentjobs.png


The sudden firing of all 379 employees at 38 Studios and Big Huge Games today was a blow to the industry, even for those of us who expected it. Soon after news broke, many developers, artists, designers, PR people, journalists and fans took to the Internet to express frustration and anger -- and to help.

On Twitter, the hashtag "#38jobs" rose to trending in the US, with people shouting out which studios were hiring and generally sending support to those let go today. A Facebook group titled "38Jobs" popped up around the same time. Freelance games journo Alex Rubens gathered all of these jobs tips into a Google Doc that currently sports 84 studios with openings, including Irrational Games, Bungie, Activision, Klei Entertainment, Rockstar and other major and indie companies.
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C

coopolon

Member
Terrible news about Big Huge Games. It's actually infuriating. They make a fantastic game (admittedly flawed, but with just a patch or two could have been a generation stand-out) and then get canned because their bosses aren't able to manage their finances.
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
I feel bad for the people losing their jobs, but I feel worse for the taxpayers who are losing tens of millions of dollars that could have gone into schools, parks, and roads.
 
M

mattp

Member
I've heard from a birdie they had a couple potential publishers that would have given them additional funding(which was probably always the plan) but when the governor leaked the late payment to the press the publishers bailed
and here we are
 
M

Mooreberg

Member
Good luck to everybody at 38 & Big Huge in finding new work. Former (?) NeoGaffer MassiveAttack talked to Providence Journal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXxiWUqJGjg&feature=relmfu

I don't understand having to keep a headcount that would lead to insolvency. I get it that RI's goal was to boost the number of knowledge workers and what not, but being that big killed the company. I don't even think Valve has 300 employees, let alone close to 400.

Really sucks for Big Huge - the development budget of Amalur was probably pretty well covered by its sales but they're part of a larger outfit that needed MMO money to stay in business.

I'll be really interested to read all the details on this. Curt et al. should have seeked private financing with oversight from somebody who actually understood the industry and the costs involved with having a work force that large.
 
S

Sir Garbageman

Member
Sucks and best wishes to all those involved.

Bought KoA day due to the passion the team seemed to have behind the project. Didn't blow my socks off but I enjoyed the 30 so hours I put into the game and was really looking forward to a sequel.
 
A

Arrowgigantic

Member
mattp said:
I've heard from a birdie they had a couple potential publishers that would have given them additional funding(which was probably always the plan) but when the governor leaked the late payment to the press the publishers bailed
and here we are
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That sounds like something one of the executives would say to shift the blame, so I wouldn't believe it and you should tell the birdie not to either.
 
P

PeteZaTheHutt

Member
Derrick01 said:
How the hell is that even possible? I did just about everything in 70 hours.
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I'm literally doing every single side quest that I come across and exploring every single nook and cranny. I've also bought and played the Legend of Dead Kel DLC which was pretty lengthy on its own, probably the most bang for the buck DLC that I've ever purchased for any game. I tend to be very OCD-like and leave no stone unturned when I play these types of games. I was the same way with Skyrim and I'm frankly a little scared to start playing my copy of Witcher 2...

Hanzou said:
yeah Im pretty sure you are the slowest player ever haha. No way does the game take that long.
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Yeah, I definitely could have chopped my play time by more than half if I wanted to, but there's some sick part of me that has to pick every friggin' flower that I see and break every single barrel and box that I come across. I need help...
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
This...th...I...sigh


There are no words to describe how horrible I feel about this happening to these guys. I really believed in what they were hoping to create with this studio. Thank you Curt for your time and for your genuine love of games and for at least trying to do what no one else was willing to attempt. I hope the gaming world pays attention to what Amalur offered in combos in a Western RPG. I really hope to someday experience combat that was so fun to use in another Western RPG.
 
L

LOCK

Member
Horrible news for those who lost their jobs, me as a fan of KoA, and RI.

Selling 1.2mil units of a new IP is amazing this late in the console cycle. The company was either mismanaged or/and the MMO was too lofty.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
God damn it. =(

Reckoning was great, sucks that Big Huge went down with the ship. They didn't deserve that. (I feel bad for everyone else too don't get me wrong.)
 
D

dollartaco

Member
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but here's R. A. Salvatore's take: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1094587/46200390#c75

I shouldn't even be commenting here.

Reckoning sold over 1.2 million units, which is pretty amazing for a new IP on an entirely new engine. I'm not going into the details of the publishing contract with EA (don't really know them), but let me just say that the economics of the video game business are a lot more convoluted than multiplying the MSRP * Units and coming up with a cash/cash-flow number.

Caveat: I am not an employee, an officer, a stockholder or on the BoD for 38 Studios. I've worked with them since 2006 on a consulting basis and believed in the project (and still do) - so much so that all of my compensation is on the back end. Maybe I'll never see a dime for those hundreds of hours, but I got the chance to work in the most incredible creative environment you can imagine. So be it.

And...38 didn't go begging for a handout from Rhode Island...Rhode Island offered to secure a bond for them when the credit crunch reigned, trying to lure them out of Massachusetts.

Say what you want about the rest of it - I'm not going to comment - but I have to tell you that this was an amazing team of designers, engineers, artists, animators, writers, audio team and all the rest, all chasing a common dream - all pushing the envelope in their respective fields. And this game is much further along than is being reported - I wish I could show you some if it! - and the environments, the animations and the game-play would blow you away.

The MMO market is very different now than it was 6 years ago. Star Wars is aching, by all reports, and it's a solid game with groundbreaking voice-over work. EA bought Mythic, and Warhammer crashed. Bioware's MMO is hurting (they just laid off a bunch of people in their Austin Studio).

Curt and I never agreed on politics, but that didn't define our time together. We'd argue, laugh, shake our heads behind each others' back, and carry on. And if this means anything to any of you, let me assure you that the vast majority of the employees of 38 make ME look like a rabid right-winger, the bunch of anarchists! And lord, I love 'em all and miss them already.
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and this:

Truth is, most of what you've seen is rough compared to what we have. We had zones in WHITE BOX that were prettier than many you'll find in running, completed, published games. And the combat and animation...super...top-notch all the way around.

And something else I probably shouldn't say, but what the hell: Reckoning showed a TINY slice of the world 2,500 years BEFORE the MMO. A TINY slice of a past age that ties to the meta-story of Amalur in the way a tale of the Schism in the Catholic Church might relate to modern day Earth...yes, the world lore was THAT BIG.

And the music - Look up Aubrey Hodges, Duncan Watt and Gene Rozenberg. The things they were doing with music and ambient sound took the entire concept of sound in a video game to another level...I could go on all night, but I'd probably get sued.

I enjoy your comments on the game industry - you have a much deeper understanding of the things going on than most, I think.
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M

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
markot said:
Salvatory got like 1.5 million, so yeah I wouldnt be complaining either.
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He mentioned he was getting it on the back end though...I wonder how much was tied to the project getting completed.
 
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