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[megamerican]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but here's R. A. Salvatore's take: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1094587/46200390#c75



and this:

Wow, I'm pretty impressed that he was so involved with the overall development process. Most of the time I assume those attached "names" just consult hastily via email or something.

That write up actually managed to make me more melancholy about the whole thing. Didn't think that was possible.

 

[neoemonk]

Can I buy KoA used guilt free now?

 

[JDS 2.0]

Can I buy KoA used guilt free now?

No man, you buy the PC version.
Buy it!

 

[ATF487]

It was weird to see this on the local news, but I guess it makes sense since Curt lives in the next town over. Hope all the employees land on their feet

 

[NoirVisage]

This...th...I...sigh


There are no words to describe how horrible I feel about this happening to these guys. I really believed in what they were hoping to create with this studio. Thank you Curt for your time and for your genuine love of games and for at least trying to do what no one else was willing to attempt. I hope the gaming world pays attention to what Amalur offered in combos in a Western RPG. I really hope to someday experience combat that was so fun to use in another Western RPG.

Well said. Pretty much my sentiments.

 

[Jintor]

KoA had to sell 3 million copies just to break even.

That's fucking insane.

 

[mattiewheels]

That's fucking insane.

To break the company even, not the game.

 

[Jintor]

Okay, that makes a little more sense.

 

[ZZMitch]

This sucks. At least I still have Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning... they had such a good foundation too.

Fuckin' MMORPGs

 

[Rei no Otaku]

He mentioned he was getting it on the back end though...I wonder how much was tied to the project getting completed.

From what I've heard in the local news Salvatore got 1.5 million upfront, and had another 5 million coming in the back end.

 

[Neuromancer]

Can I buy KoA used guilt free now?

Why would you feel guilty about buying a good game?

 

[Yagharek]

To break the company even, not the game.

So it had to sell far more to make everyone in the project break even?

 

[thepotatoman]

I'm pretty sure that Reckoning was not meant to net a positive profit. That game was in development for a while, and there's no way that the game was also expected to recoup the expenses of buying BHG. The game was meant to build brand awareness for the MMO, and I'm assuming that if it did well they would have developed Reckoning 2.

Also its good for adding to the technology and asset library, which makes sense and is a common practice in video games nowadays. But its still bad business when the whole damn company falls apart before you can cash in on game 2 despite the fact you had what should be decent number of sales for a new IP.

EDIT: Thinking about it, my guess is they probably wanted about 1.5 million and then get a new round of investors after seeing how well the game did for being a new IP. The problem probably came when those investors saw how much of a money sink the project was and the risk of losing tons verses the small possible gains from it doing gangbusters made no one want to help them out.

 

[jrDev]

Just...wow...I saw that original thread topic multiple times on front page and just gleaned past it, never knowing what the hell was going down...

Like...wtf!!!!! :-/

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

So it had to sell far more to make everyone in the project break even?

no, to keep the whole company afloat, the one making the MMORPG.

 

[Yagharek]

no, to keep the whole company afloat, the one making the MMORPG.

Ah ok. Dire situation then.

 

[Wiktor]

I feel bad for Big Huge Games. They had one of the best debiuts of all time, but after that they never came even remotely close to this level.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This whole thing just sucks. Not really mad at any particular party, but I was pretty damn excited about Amalur and it looks like they had a cool product on their hands with the MMORPG.

 

[PowderedToast]

sorry for people losing their jobs, but amalur was derivative trash with zero creative vision. shocked at how so many are praising it.

 

[element]

Does this mean RI gov owns the Rise of Nations IP as well?

Microsoft owns Rise of Nations.

The whole thing is crazy. 400 people. $45m. The MMO. It was just setup for failure. As someone said, making Sigil and Vanguard looks successful is a feat in itself.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I'm surprised one of the big Korean or Chinese MMO companies haven't swooped in on this yet. I suppose they're waiting for RI to take ownership to get the whole thing for pennies on the dollar.

 

[ezekial45]

This is so fucking wild. I've never seen a dev studio implode like this.

I wish all the developers the best of luck. Despite the studio situation, you guys still did a great job with the game.

 

[MC Safety]

If you found out that your insurance was going to run out in a week and your wife was 8-9 months along, could you demand that the doctors perform a C-section while you are still under coverage?

No.

And the employees are eligible for coverage under Cobra.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

No.

And the employees are eligible for coverage under Cobra.

Finally the villians in G.I. Joe are doing something for society.

 

[Aaron]

Finally the villians in G.I. Joe are doing something for society.

You wouldn't be saying that if you knew how much Cobra costs.

 

[shaowebb]

No.

And the employees are eligible for coverage under Cobra.

Finally the villians in G.I. Joe are doing something for society.

Cobra is an abbreviation for a failsafe that allows employees to pay to keep their old coverage from an employer that went under or that they are no longer able to work for under various circumstances. The thing is the cost for Cobra was pretty high back in 2003 when I still handled insurance for people at Western and Southern and I can assure you its even worse now to afford.

Still, they should be able to meet premiums for awhile till they can find work elsewhere. What hurts though is that they will likely all have to move to find work. Likely Austin TX, or SoCal given their fields of expertise as those areas have the highest density of jobs for people that work in the game industry.

God I still cant even make myself want to believe this. I really loved what Amalur was trying to do. It was such a strong foundation to build from. The day I got my first Arrow combo on an enemy felt like Christmas. I had never had so much fun with combat in a Western RPG and the House of Ballads story was so fun to experience. Heck all the lore and stories hidden throughout the world were fun. A single patch and the thing would've probably had folks quiet down on balance enough to foam at the mouth for the sequel. Was it the MMO that sank them with costs on its development?

 

[Jive Turkey]

So...Who gets my money if I buy a Steam copy now?

 

[MC Safety]

Cobra is an abbreviation for a failsafe that allows employees to pay to keep their old coverage from an employer that went under or that they are no longer able to work for under various circumstances. The thing is the cost for Cobra was pretty high back in 2003 when I still handled insurance for people at Western and Southern and I can assure you its even worse now to afford.

Still, they should be able to meet premiums for awhile till they can find work elsewhere. What hurts though is that they will likely all have to move to find work. Likely Austin TX, or SoCal given their fields of expertise as those areas have the highest density of jobs for people that work in the game industry.
?

I know Cobra is ungodly expensive, as I've shelled out for it. But I'd imagine that in some cases, it is imperative there be no lapses in coverage.

 

[border]

No.

And the employees are eligible for coverage under Cobra.

Not sure if that's particularly good news:

http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/healthinsurancebasics/a/COBRA_basics.htm

Depending on your individual circumstances, COBRA can be very expensive. If you are getting coverage for yourself, you may have to pay up to $400 per month; family coverage may be more than $1000 per month.

Or if they will actually be eligible:

If your company went out of business or went bankrupt, COBRA will not be available.

 

[Sanjuro]

If the employees were in Massachusetts, they would receive free/discounted health insurance from the state! Oops.

 

[MC Safety]

Not sure if that's particularly good news:

http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/healthinsurancebasics/a/COBRA_basics.htm

Depending on your individual circumstances, COBRA can be very expensive. If you are getting coverage for yourself, you may have to pay up to $400 per month; family coverage may be more than $1000 per month.

Or if they will actually be eligible:

If your company went out of business or went bankrupt, COBRA will not be available.

The employees were laid off.

And, yes, Cobra is expensive.

 

[shaowebb]

I know Cobra is ungodly expensive, as I've shelled out for it. But I'd imagine that in some cases, it is imperative there be no lapses in coverage.

Yeah thats why I'm pretty sure a lot of folks at 38 will be paying out for Cobra benefits. No real choice when you need to keep coverage as you said. Its why people paid for it when I still did insurance. That or they were so old that buying new insurance from another provider meant that they would have to buy it in at their current age and likely pay an even higher premium and face being locked out of certain areas of coverage altogether now that they likely have pre-existing conditions they didn't when they originally began coverage with their employer. Thankfully thats not likely and issue for anyone at 38 so if anything it should be a temporarily big expense to maintain coverage through Cobra for awhile until they can find a new employer in their field with benefits they can replace their old coverage with. Unless their is no Cobra due to bankruptcy like the above poster mentions. I've been out of insurance classes for half a decade now so I'm unclear on this and its likely got different stipulations per state and carrier too to sort out on the matter of whether or not Cobra could disappear as well.

I hope all the family's tied up in this come out okay. God this hurts like crazy, because I know Curt is a major family man and I know he never wanted this. I hate seeing something like this wreck all he was trying to build with this studio.

Somedays the world just doesn't seem very fair when I see folks with their heart in the right place get smashed like this. Thank you Curt for trying. I'm sorry.

 

[border]

The employees were laid off.

What constitutes "going out of business" then, if not firing everyone, ceasing production and ending all revenue streams?

 

[MC Safety]

What constitutes "going out of business" then, if not firing everyone, ceasing production and ending all revenue streams?

As I understand it, the company still exists. It just fired its employees.

I may be in error.

 

[gogojira]

Has Moorgard's tweet been posted? If not, here it is:

"Media: Follow the money. Watch who profits from this and you'll find a trail of power, corruption, and lies."

Moorgard has been with 38 for 5 and a half years and has worked on MMOs like EQ2 in the past. He loved his job (seemingly all 38 employees did) and the tweet hints that maybe we should consider the idea that we don't know the full story yet.

379 employees were let go -- you better believe things are going to be leaked quick.

 

[border]

As I understand it, the company still exists. It just fired its employees.

I suppose there's other ways to define going out of business -- dissolution of the corporation, liquidation of all the ownership shares, etc.

 

[border]

He loved his job (seemingly all 38 employees did) and the tweet hints that maybe we should consider the idea that we don't know the full story yet.

I'm having a hard time imagining a way this can not be blamed on poor management, poor planning, and overexpansion. This guy has been at 38 Studios for a while so he has some credibility, but at the same time it means he's had an awful lot of Kool Aid to drink.

 

[Sanjuro]

Has Moorgard's tweet been posted? If not, here it is:

"Media: Follow the money. Watch who profits from this and you'll find a trail of power, corruption, and lies."

Moorgard has been with 38 for 5 and a half years and has worked on MMOs like EQ2 in the past. He loved his job (seemingly all 38 employees did) and the tweet hints that maybe we should consider the idea that we don't know the full story yet.

379 employees were let go -- you better believe things are going to be leaked quick.

I blame EA...for now...

 

[gogojira]

I'm having a hard time imagining a way this can not be blamed on poor management, poor planning, and overexpansion. This guy has been at 38 Studios for a while so he has some credibility, but at the same time it means he's had an awful lot of Kool Aid to drink.

Grave over at FoH got plucked from the forums to work for 38 and is a recent hire in the grand scheme of things. He seems to share Moorgard's sentiments.

 

[gogojira]

I blame EA...for now...

I don't think he was referring to EA. Curt didn't seem to love his time dealing with EA Partners (imagine that!), but 38's financial issues likely go much deeper and further back than any Reckoning/EA deals.

 

[Sanjuro]

I don't think he was referring to EA. Curt didn't seem to love his time dealing with EA Partners (imagine that!), but 38's financial issues likely go much deeper and further back than any Reckoning/EA deals.

I know. I'm just irrationally tossing out a name like a majority of the followers. I live within a thirty mile radius, I hear about this story daily. Everything will be out soon enough.

 

[gogojira]

I know. I'm just irrationally tossing out a name like a majority of the followers. I live within a thirty mile radius, I hear about this story daily. Everything will be out soon enough.

Well you're about to be a partial owner of the game so get to work.

 

[A Black Falcon]

What constitutes "going out of business" then, if not firing everyone, ceasing production and ending all revenue streams?

Interplay fired all of its employees back around '04 or so, and spent several years with no staff, and technically still existed throughout that period... it can happen.

 

[thcsquad]

Still, they should be able to meet premiums for awhile till they can find work elsewhere. What hurts though is that they will likely all have to move to find work. Likely Austin TX, or SoCal given their fields of expertise as those areas have the highest density of jobs for people that work in the game industry.

Boston has a much larger game industry than you think, including one gigantic MMO company (Turbine) that is actively trying to hire a lot of these people. Irrational, Tencent (hey, more MMOs) and smaller companies like Demiurge and Fire Hose have also responded to this with job opportunities via #38jobs. Sure, with 400+ employees now looking for work many will obviously have to relocate, but you're clearly not giving the area enough credit.

And if you're not aware, Providence is commuting distance from Boston, and 38 Studios was a Boston company until less than two years ago so a lot of these employees probably still live in Massachusetts anyway.

 

[Sanjuro]

Well you're about to be a partial owner of the game so get to work.

I maintain Masshole citizenship. Best I'm going to get is a sock full of ketchup.

 

[shaowebb]

Grave over at FoH got plucked from the forums to work for 38 and is a recent hire in the grand scheme of things. He seems to share Moorgard's sentiments.

God from what guys are saying over on that board it looks like Curt is going to lose about everything over this. If they're right I really worry for his family. He has an autistic son.

I swear none of this makes enough sense yet. The man is a genuinely nice person who literally just put his all into following his love of games. I mean the guy chats up gaming like an excited fan just like all the rest of us and does campaigns for helping with autism! This doesn't sound like the kind of man who would go around and try to snake money out of taxpayers and flitter it away.

This just seems completely surreal right now. I really want someone to be able to give a full story on what happened at their studio soon because this just doesn't add up to me fully. Something just seems off about this whole situation.

 

[element]

Boston has a much larger game industry than you think, including one gigantic MMO company (Turbine) that is actively trying to hire a lot of these people. Irrational, Tencent (hey, more MMOs) and smaller companies like Demiurge and Fire Hose have also responded to this with job opportunities via #38jobs. Sure, with 400+ employees now looking for work many will obviously have to relocate, but you're clearly not giving the area enough credit.

And if you're not aware, Providence is commuting distance from Boston, and 38 Studios was a Boston company until less than two years ago so a lot of these employees probably still live in Massachusetts anyway.

The Boston game industry is actually quite small, when you compare it to SoCal, Austin, Seattle, or Vancouver. You pretty much listed all those that have money. Turbine being the largest and best funded (owned by WB). Irrational is ramping up to finish Bioshock Infinite, but will probably have staff reduction after it has gone gold. Harmonix has spots, but doesn't have the same funding they had two years ago. After that you are going into much smaller companies with limited funding security.

God from what guys are saying over on that board it looks like Curt is going to lose about everything over this. If they're right I really worry for his family. He has an autistic son.

While it sounds Kurt invested a signifiant amount of his personal finances into the proejct, he has continued to moonlight as baseball analyst since retiring. He doesn't appear on ESPN and WEEI for free.

 

[gogojira]

God from what guys are saying over on that board it looks like Curt is going to lose about everything over this. If they're right I really worry for his family. He has an autistic son.

I swear none of this makes enough sense yet. The man is a genuinely nice person who literally just put his all into following his love of games. I mean the guy chats up gaming like an excited fan just like all the rest of us and does campaigns for helping with autism! This doesn't sound like the kind of man who would go around and try to snake money out of taxpayers and flitter it away.

This just seems completely surreal right now. I really want someone to be able to give a full story on what happened at their studio soon because this just doesn't add up to me fully. Something just seems off about this whole situation.

That's my issue, too. To be clear, I absolutely hate 99.99 percent of his views. Ultimately though, I bought in to his passion for the genre, the world he was creating and deep down he seems like a good dude.

I don't know, maybe he fucked everyone over. I get the feeling he didn't though, and while everyone is poking and prodding him to be the loud mouth Curt we all see in the spotlight, there are a handful of people making damn sure he doesn't say something stupid.

We'll find out inevitably. Damn near 400 people lost their job -- they're already chattering and it's only going to get worse.

 

[mysocksarepink]

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/5/24/3041662/38-studios-lays-off-entire-staff



Previous thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474152

Edit: Big Huge Games is gone too...

Wait.. is that it for kingdom? No dlc? No mmo?

 

[Dacvak]

That's a huge bummer. I have friends at BHG. One of them even left a very big position at another large and well-liked developer to be at BHG. Really sucks for them.