element
Member
everything is dead. Anything future for KOA is totally dead as BigHuge Games will close. 38 Studios remains 'open', but really only open in a legal sense, there is no development staff.
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Curt Schilling's '38 Studios' lays off entire staff, Big Huge Games to be closed
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FieryBalrog
Member
The employees seem to have loved their jobs and be on board with Curt, which is heartening.
There are bigger markets, sure, but the post I responded to claimed that all of them would have to move to find new jobs, which clearly isn't true. You pretty much listed all of the other North American cities with game industries larger than Boston, save San Francisco and maybe Montreal.
element
Member
Dallas as well. Boston is really small. I lived and worked there for two years. It is very small. It was hit hard by the problems at Harmonix, which was over 300 people at one point. The area also isn't very diverse. You have a FPS developer, a music developer, a MMO company, and some social developers. You lose your gig, you are going to have a difficult time finding something where your skills are applicable.
shaowebb
Member
They may not all have to move as I stated with that in the area, but as others have stated jobs are based on demand and filling jobs for nearly 400 employees across an area like that with studios that are going to have only so many openings if any available will be harsh. A lot will end up having to move over this.
This is going to hurt.
This is going to hurt.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I suppose its technically possible for 38 to exist as some sort of licensing firm for Amular and all of it's assets, but somehow I doubt that would be enough to pay the loan bills.
The guy is always going to have work. I wouldn't cry much for him. He may end up in local TV ads for Boston car dealerships, but he's gonna be getting a paycheck from somewhere. He help the Red Sox end the Curse of the Bambino -- people in that town will probably line up to give him money (well, so long as he isn't asking anyone to invest in an MMO).
Supposedly his career earnings with the Red Sox were over 100 million, so I am a little confused why all the outside funding was needed. If he actually blew 175 million dollars on Copernicus, I'd be quite surprised.
For all those of us who have come home to a girlfriend who was pissed that we blew $60 on a videogame.....imagine coming home to a wife after you blew 100 million on trying to make a videogame.
The way he is wording it it sounds like he hasn't gotten anything yet. I suppose he could be lying, but I don't know why he would. He's not on the hook for any of this.
You bet they did, when they released Rise of Nations in 2003.
It's crappy for everyone, but it must be particularly crappy for BHG. They get bought by 38, make a fantastic RPG based on new IP that apparently sells reasonably well, and get fired anyway.
It's impossible to know the validity of this rumor and it's probably not true, but holy shit, if true whoever leaked the story may have cost the citizens of RI how many millions of dollars? It's probably just people at 38 looking to shift blame though.
Is there anybody that doesn't doubt this game would have crashed and burned even if it had gotten made?
This is far from a good ending, but at least this way the staff can lament and daydream about the awesome game they ALMOST got to make. Otherwise it would just be bitter memories of the awesome game they made that got a lukewarm response, had to have server mergers, and ultimately had to switch to a chintzy Free 2 Play model just so they could eke out a living and repay their insane debt.
I suspect part of the reason they could never pick up a publisher was because of all the recent high-profile IPs that flopped as MMOs (Warhammer, Star Trek, DC Universe, Star Wars). If those dudes couldn't hack it, what chance does a new IP have?
This is far from a good ending, but at least this way the staff can lament and daydream about the awesome game they ALMOST got to make. Otherwise it would just be bitter memories of the awesome game they made that got a lukewarm response, had to have server mergers, and ultimately had to switch to a chintzy Free 2 Play model just so they could eke out a living and repay their insane debt.
I suspect part of the reason they could never pick up a publisher was because of all the recent high-profile IPs that flopped as MMOs (Warhammer, Star Trek, DC Universe, Star Wars). If those dudes couldn't hack it, what chance does a new IP have?
Proposed Law
Member
How is this a worse scenario?
Oh man this is terrible news, best of luck to everyone who lost their jobs.
With the quality of people they managed to attract I really couldn't see this happening so quickly. To balance the fate of what had become a huge company on the back of one console game though, especially considering what they had and when they tried to launch it...just crazy.
With the quality of people they managed to attract I really couldn't see this happening so quickly. To balance the fate of what had become a huge company on the back of one console game though, especially considering what they had and when they tried to launch it...just crazy.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I only just heard about this through Grant Kirkhope's Facebook status.
I really feel bad for him; he jumped ship from Rare when it was clear they were going down the shitter (the last game he worked on, Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise in 2008, is the last good noteworthy game they've made), and now this happens.
Hopefully he finds work again soon. I'd particularly like to see him join Retro.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Damn good album.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
That's what I was figuring. Be smart RI and sell Amalur for like $5 this summer!
I still doubt anyone will want to buy the Amalur IP. There's only been one game released that was praised more for its mechanics and gameplay ideas than its lore.
I think someone earlier nailed it: The assets will be sold to a Chinese or Korean MMO company, and it'll be stripped down to a micro-transaction based F2P MMO that is a shadow of whatever it is now.
I'll be curious to see how many times this gets used as a textbook case of mismanagement, though. You don't see many flameouts like this.
I think someone earlier nailed it: The assets will be sold to a Chinese or Korean MMO company, and it'll be stripped down to a micro-transaction based F2P MMO that is a shadow of whatever it is now.
I'll be curious to see how many times this gets used as a textbook case of mismanagement, though. You don't see many flameouts like this.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Taxes, how do they work?
Gee, I hope the multi-millionaire athlete can still buy his groceries. 400 middle-class people haven't been paid for a month and don't have health insurance, and you're worried about the family of a guy who can write his name on a baseball an sell it for $100?
The former employees are not eligible for COBRA. The health plan has been canceled.
This is another reason we need better options for health care in the US. Having your health insurance taken away at a moment's notice through no fault of your own is really terrible. And then on top of that having to find a new job and relocate, it's a lot of stress.
Animation-Imp
Member
Damn just bought the game...
It's a bad couple of years for big projects.
Devs dropping like flies here and there.
It's a bad couple of years for big projects.
Devs dropping like flies here and there.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I wouldn't be surprised if Curt Schilling is worth more than $100 million today. Yes he paid taxes. However he also made investments with his income. When you have millions of dollars, it's pretty easy to turn that into even more money.
That doesn't mean that Curt was obligated to fund 38 Studios, of course not. I do think the way he treated his employees, though (not paying them for almost a month of work, canceling their health insurance like that), was deeply immoral.
Should have just skipped Kingdoms of Amalur and Big Huge Games and put everything into Copernicus and 38 Studios.
If they had launched Copernicus it would be pulling in some money because of monthly subscriptions. Probably not enough subscriptions to be the next WoW but likely enough to keep the game running and keep people out of the unemployment line.
If they had launched Copernicus it would be pulling in some money because of monthly subscriptions. Probably not enough subscriptions to be the next WoW but likely enough to keep the game running and keep people out of the unemployment line.
Shatner's Bassoon
Member
Death rattle.
Either a leak from someone who saw the writing on the wall and wanted the world to see something, anything to prove that they weren't just twiddling their thumbs there, or a last-ditch Hail Mary in an attempt to draw some investor attention and get much needed money.
element
Member
Highly doubtful. Star Wars can't hold users, so Copernicus probably wouldn't fair that that well either. The investment in KOA and Big Huge Games had little if anything to do with the fall of 38 Studios.
If nothing else, all this makes Runic seem like geniuses. Their gameplan of starting small, creating a following and slowly building to a potential MMO was great. Notice that didn't involve going on a massive hiring spree and becoming way too big way too fast.
FieryBalrog
Member
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
That's speculation.
Take that 110 million, 4% - 6% went to his agent, 35% to taxes. So in a sense he might have seen just over $60million of that $110. We have no clue how well his investments have paid off in the long haul, well, outside of this one which allegedly dropped at least $30m.
He's probably still has some cash on hand, but to think he was able to turn that original 60m into over 110m is a stretch. Also to think he had the money to fund this whole project on his own with cash is asinine. It's not like he had that $60 odd million just sitting in an account somewhere.
It was on the official YT account, wasn't it? So probably the latter.
The video was officially released. I thought we were talking about the screenshots that actually showed the characters/art styles.
Even if he had just $30 million or $50 million, did he really need another 75M from Rhode Island? The game's budget was supposed to be in excess of 100-125M? This seems like a pretty textbook case of biting off way more than you can chew.
I suppose you could make the argument that no publisher would be stupid enough to give a first-time developer with a new IP that much money, but I don't see how it really justifies bamboozling an ignorant state government.
This should be a nice lesson for everyone who is all rainbows-and-sunshine about Kickstarter. Giving creative people a sack full of money with no oversight can sometimes turn out wonderful things, and sometimes it can crash and burn hard.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
This is sorta like hearing something third or fourthhand, but here are some puported quotes from employees taken from the FoH board:
Another post countered that point, saying this is bullshit and nothing but making excuses for mismanagement, and that Curt et al knew damn well that this was how things were going to work and still chose to string people along until this week:
As usual, most of the rest of the posts are too crude to post here.
Another post countered that point, saying this is bullshit and nothing but making excuses for mismanagement, and that Curt et al knew damn well that this was how things were going to work and still chose to string people along until this week:
As usual, most of the rest of the posts are too crude to post here.
Maybe not as bad as you think.
If you're smart enough to work in that industry, then hopefully you're smart enough to realize that unless you work at Valve, or Blizzard, or a small handful of studios, you will have to be mobile and don't plan on putting any roots down at your current place of employment.
Its just one of those crazy industries, like broadcasting, where you'll probably work in a dozen different cities your entire career if you stick with it.
I'd say that if you don't like being uprooted, displaced, and moved around at a moment's notice, then don't get into the gaming industry.
Hari Seldon
Member
God damn that is terrible. Hopefully they can get some of their owed money in a lawsuit.
Yup, I'm going through school right now for TV/film production, and am fully expecting to have to move around once the market dries up here in the Atlanta, GA area. It's a moving target.
semiconscious
Member
fixed
...wanna find yourself surrounded by vultures? that'll tell you how wonderful you are, & how hard they're gonna work on protecting you, & making your money grow, & how they have only your best interests at heart? become a millionaire...
indigo-cyclops
Member
I honestly didn't enjoy KOA all that much from what I played; however this whole situation is fucked up, messy and a shocker. Really hope the people really affected by this make it back in one piece. The whole financial situation is extremely shady to me...
If that mortgage stuff is true, then I feel really sorry for the 38 workers. I have no idea what I'd do in that situation.
A company 400 person company with only Amalur to show for it... no wonder this was gonna end bad.
The last company i worked in ended up the same. We developed construction projects, large scale, hospitals, schools, libraries, etc.
On the basis of a couple of good projects, the company felt it was the right time to expand and bought out most of the small construction equipment and engineering firms, we ended up with almost a monopoly on bidding for projects, the problem was that we had a huge firm with hundreds of employees, most of the engineers were earning absurd salaries due to the contracts they negotiated when their firms were bought...
... but the market was too small to support such expenditure, and then the monetary crisis hit Europe hard, construction sector first.
We lasted 2 years, then it all burned down around us (figuratively).
Lesson i learned, start small, get a healthy base and then expand conservatively.
The last company i worked in ended up the same. We developed construction projects, large scale, hospitals, schools, libraries, etc.
On the basis of a couple of good projects, the company felt it was the right time to expand and bought out most of the small construction equipment and engineering firms, we ended up with almost a monopoly on bidding for projects, the problem was that we had a huge firm with hundreds of employees, most of the engineers were earning absurd salaries due to the contracts they negotiated when their firms were bought...
... but the market was too small to support such expenditure, and then the monetary crisis hit Europe hard, construction sector first.
We lasted 2 years, then it all burned down around us (figuratively).
Lesson i learned, start small, get a healthy base and then expand conservatively.