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PAL Charts - Week 11, 2013
- Thread starter Bruno MB
- Start date
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Sony always had the support of third party developers and publishers, though. Their catalogue was always going to get there.
Nintendo, however...
pieatorium
Member
The PS3 launch wasn't selling as low as this. It had a much lower opening in the US an Japan but the weekly/monthly sales in the follow up period (same period we are in now for WiiU) were about double or more in corresponding times.
And then there is EU where the PS3 sold almost 1.5x the WiiU's first month in just it's first week
shinra-bansho
Member
It had one particular card that ensured its survival: third party publishers having a massive vested interest in it growing a substantial installed base and corresponding audience for their titles, alongside the XBOX 360.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
The barrier to entry for PS3 was always price. You had all that third party content coming, you had Sony's first partys bringing tremendous generation defining games, but it was Kutaragi's stretching of the budget to create that $599 behemoth that was always the stalling point of the PS3. Blu Ray laser diode costs came down as manufacturing went up after they won the format war, they went hard to work at shrinking the internals to offer the PS3 Slim, and really cut back on premium un-needed materials.
Theres just no roadmap to that kind of "way out" for Nintendo. Its not a shockingly gigantic price, nor can they get costs of the entire GamePad and that streaming tech down to some throwaway price either. If its games, then Nintendo just doesnt have the infrastructure to match what Sony's huge cabal of first party brings to the table. PS3 gen they were still adding with studios like MediaMolecule and Suckerpunch. Alright we've lost a few on the way into next gen, but Nintendo is so far behind the curve they've only just started expanding as of last year and I don't see them buying up new western studios en masse.
Worse still, the PS3 audience is the one that it always was from the PS1 to PS2. They lost some to Microsoft no doubt, but that hardcore GTA, Gran Turismo, COD gamer was still in the market. Nintendo meanwhile has completely lost the casual market that made the Wii a success. Theyre gone, app'ing it up seemingly on phones and tablets, so Nintendo has to fight over the hardcore table scraps left behind Sony and MS who arent really skipping a beat right now. You've got the Nintendo lifers buying the system right now for a Mario and franchise fix, and nothing beyond that.
Nintendo would have to really reach into that 10 billion to turn this around, and I'm seeing no signs of that right now and new dev startups take at least 2 years to get up and running.
To be honest its a mix of the Wii phenomenon just dying dead, but also the well recorded end of generation buying fatigue. Happens every god damn generation. Of course its a testament to how the market has reacted to the WiiU not being new or of interest at all to inject life into the market like new home consoles normally do!
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, the major first-party titles coming will at least result in some sort of recovery, however limited, which is more than can be said for Vita.
It's certainly looking pretty bleak, though.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Endemic of the problem is third party support. If theyre not in, the library is tiny and not swaying heads, and also Nintendo isn't getting their licensing fee's in to even make having a console out there worth it as much.
Meanwhile on Vita you have Ubisoft sounding pretty pleased with AC:L sales while moving exclusive WiiU titles and sounding out disappointment, and Vita's shite COD sales giving the fully featured WiiU iteration a wedgie.
More than ever before the WiiU will sell to that Nintendo core and no-one else, and thats a shrinking market not an expanding one. How would Nintendo convince third parties again of even bothering with the Wii Three or whatever? Thats why its most likely their last home console.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
In March 07 it wasn't simply price holding things back. PS3 was losing big exclusives left and right and that trend was accelerating, PSN was lightyears behind XBL feature/content wise with no sign of catching up, 3rd party games were bombing spectacularly, 3rd party games were also running apprecuably worse than 360, meanwhile Wii was breaking PS2 sales records, Japanese devs were retreating to DS/PSP while the west was becoming more firmly entrenched in 360 (where their games actually sold), HD-DVD was still at a competitive point in the format war... the idea that Sony could turn it all around was a very open question in March 07, which isn't so far removed from Wii U's situation now.
I think it's fair to say the platform's 3rd party commitments were far stronger than what they are for Wii U, though that's somewhat countered by SCEWWS being more or less irrelevant compared to Nintendo's 1st party in most consumers' eyes. And in terms of overall R&D workforce, Nintendo and SCE are pretty close overall. SCE is more diversified and global while Nintendo's more centralized and national, but the latter still ends up putting out more product annually anyway.
From my column up today.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...agging_but_theres_still_hope_for_Nintendo.php
Regarding UK sales:
I can add a bit more here later.
It's probably a bad sign when your platform makes PC retail look great.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
"Losing exclusives" but still having them on your platform is a far and distant cry from not having them at all, and thats where the WiiU is at this point. Its now an unsolvable situation I feel since even establishing a "port studio" or two would then yield the undesirable third party ambivalence of "you do it" for each and every game they produce. So Nintendo could only bring over one or two laser targeted titles for perceived platform parity which is where theyre at right now and thats not doing anything.
Look at tech situations as well, Sony will ship off engineers to muddle out a mess like Bethesda's and other fires that need putting out while Nintendo's studios by Iwata's own admission were asking their third party allies on how to do shaders and shit. Theres just no benefits to being on a Nintendo home console when youre competing with an audience that seemingly only buys Nintendo games.
Look at tech situations as well, Sony will ship off engineers to muddle out a mess like Bethesda's and other fires that need putting out while Nintendo's studios by Iwata's own admission were asking their third party allies on how to do shaders and shit. Theres just no benefits to being on a Nintendo home console when youre competing with an audience that seemingly only buys Nintendo games.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I like how you list the two big moneyhatted Vita exclusives that had to bundle their way to success as if they're representative of anything, meanwhile blissfully ignoring Capcom, Sega, WB, etc. But anyway yes, lets actually compare upcoming support then from these two companies:
Ubisoft PS Vita
-nothing
Ubisoft Wii U
-Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
-Rayman Legends
-Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Blacklist
-Watch Dogs
Activision PS Vita
-nothing
Activision Wii U
-Angry Birds Trilogy
-Call of Duty (next title)
-Skylanders: Swap Force
-The Fast and the Furious: Showdown
-The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct
Vita moves more software than Wii-U.From my column up today.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...agging_but_theres_still_hope_for_Nintendo.php
Regarding UK sales:
I can add a bit more here later.
Vita moves more software than Wii-U.
Vita moves more software than Wii-U.
Mmm. Sounds better each time I say it.
shinra-bansho
Member
I really don't think any comparisons between Vita and Wii U really shed a positive light on either of them...
electroplankton
Banned
Difference is, 2D Castlevania on DS costed way less than MoF and they weren't even advertised.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I'd have to agree, both are pretty clear failures at this point.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
No disagreement here. And both will lead to them pulling out of those markets respectively to focus on the one they still have strength in.
I dunno man. A platform that was pronounced 'dead' months ago is selling more software than the hot new console from Nintendo. The successor to the Wii, no less. Viewed through an appropriately skewed lens and with a total lack of perspective, it's a magnificent achievement.
I'd say probably Mirror of Fate didn't cost that much more, due to salaries being much lower in Spain compared to other places. It's the same reason we're getting a sequel to the first Lords of Shadow, despite it selling less than a million.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Sony: banking, Nintendo: software?
Father_Brain
Banned
Guillemot confirmed that they do have further Vita support coming, in fact. I don't expect another exclusive given that Ubi Sofia is working on ACIV's single-player, but we'll see.
And yeah, while Liberation was presumably profitable for Ubisoft (hence their comments on its sales), 600K worldwide for an exclusive entry in an enormously popular IP, released to significant marketing with discounted bundles in the biggest shopping season of the year, is not exactly an impressive success story.
You can say that again.
Props for the candidness!
electroplankton
Banned
MoF's production values are much higher than Igavanias on DS. Hell, even development itself on 3DS is more expensive. Also, those Castlevania didn't receive a fraction of the marketing MoF received (it was present in each event from E3 onwards, just saying). And I do think MoF has been developed with an HD porting in mind, sooner or later. But one thing is sure: we won' t see other 2 Castlevania following MoF idea on 3DS.
michaelius
Banned
I'll argue that Vita has as high or better chance for recovery than Wii U
It's sharing digital platform with PS3 and already shown big potential when it comes to digital sales - that resulted with around 20 indie games being annouced for it (with most of them being succesfull in pc space). This will partialy offset lack of software releases in next few months.
It's connected with PSN+ to PS3 - which means any subscriber is potential Vita user in the future.
There's price drop incomming (i'm guessing September) - which will be accompanied by software - we know Killzone and Tearaway will launch in that period - at E3 latest we will see what else Sony managed to secure for this period - i'm guessing rumored another AC spinoff, and it will be suprising if Vita doesn't receive this year CoD (those titles have 2 years dev cycle so porting would have started when vita was annouced and Declassified was buying them time since it was too late for real console version).
And then there's question of what was Sony Bend doing since february 2012 - which means probably new Uncharted spinoff for holidays.
Then there's price issue - Oled screens are commonly used in smartphone's, cpu and gpu in vita are used in other mobile products - this will be driving BOM down reasonably fast. Then there's also ripoff memory cards which can be reduced. As well as new more "cost-consious" revision.
As well as unknown factor in connectivity to PS4.
It's sharing digital platform with PS3 and already shown big potential when it comes to digital sales - that resulted with around 20 indie games being annouced for it (with most of them being succesfull in pc space). This will partialy offset lack of software releases in next few months.
It's connected with PSN+ to PS3 - which means any subscriber is potential Vita user in the future.
There's price drop incomming (i'm guessing September) - which will be accompanied by software - we know Killzone and Tearaway will launch in that period - at E3 latest we will see what else Sony managed to secure for this period - i'm guessing rumored another AC spinoff, and it will be suprising if Vita doesn't receive this year CoD (those titles have 2 years dev cycle so porting would have started when vita was annouced and Declassified was buying them time since it was too late for real console version).
And then there's question of what was Sony Bend doing since february 2012 - which means probably new Uncharted spinoff for holidays.
Then there's price issue - Oled screens are commonly used in smartphone's, cpu and gpu in vita are used in other mobile products - this will be driving BOM down reasonably fast. Then there's also ripoff memory cards which can be reduced. As well as new more "cost-consious" revision.
As well as unknown factor in connectivity to PS4.
electroplankton
Banned
It's funny because you can change Vita with Wii U and the point still stands
Wii U is having a lot of indie games announced, and as far as we know it's one of the most friendly platform for indie developers. Wii U will likely have a price drop, and it will likely have many games coming in the second half of the year. And Mario Kart and Yoshi (and Zelda, though a remake) are way bigger IPs than Tearaway and Killzone.
Father_Brain
Banned
If AC, COD, and Uncharted failed to move Vita hardware even with the push Sony gave them, there's no reason other than extreme wishful thinking to believe that Killzone, another AC, another COD. or another Uncharted would succeed.
well... now imagine if in October 2007 we had 720 and Wii U being released... how would that influence PS3 sales from that moment forward?
Bingo.
Shorty11857
Member
If right (or close to it) these sales seem really impressive, hoping it sees success in other countries
Twister Flipper
Member
France:
1) Tomb Raider: Edition Strike (PS3)
2) Naruto Shippuden : ultimate Ninja storm 3 - Edition day one (PS3)
3) Tomb Raider: Edition Strike (X360)
4) Naruto Shippuden : ultimate Ninja storm 3 - Edition day one (X360)
5) Tomb Raider : Edition Survival (PS3)
http://www.sell.fr/top
Italy:
01. Tomb Raider (PS3)
02. Tomb Raider (360)
03. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (PS3)
04. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (360)
05. FIFA 13 (PS3)
06. Just Dance 4 (WII)
07. New Super Mario Bros. 2 (3DS)
08. Assassin's Creed III D1 Version (PS3)
09. Tomb Raider Survival Edition (PS3)
10. Call of Duty: Black Ops II (PS3)
http://multiplayer.it/notizie/11615...e-primo-anche-nelle-classifiche-italiane.html
1) Tomb Raider: Edition Strike (PS3)
2) Naruto Shippuden : ultimate Ninja storm 3 - Edition day one (PS3)
3) Tomb Raider: Edition Strike (X360)
4) Naruto Shippuden : ultimate Ninja storm 3 - Edition day one (X360)
5) Tomb Raider : Edition Survival (PS3)
http://www.sell.fr/top
Italy:
01. Tomb Raider (PS3)
02. Tomb Raider (360)
03. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (PS3)
04. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (360)
05. FIFA 13 (PS3)
06. Just Dance 4 (WII)
07. New Super Mario Bros. 2 (3DS)
08. Assassin's Creed III D1 Version (PS3)
09. Tomb Raider Survival Edition (PS3)
10. Call of Duty: Black Ops II (PS3)
http://multiplayer.it/notizie/11615...e-primo-anche-nelle-classifiche-italiane.html
I'll let y'all have fun with these. UK market.
Code:
---------------------------------------
Units Jan '12 Jan '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360 860K 810K
PS3 575K 545K
PC 310K 230K
Wii 535K 180K
NDS 310K 140K
3DS 160K 110K
PSV --- 45K
Wii U --- 35K
PSP 30K 15K
PS2 5K 0K
---------------------------------------
Revenue Jan '12 Jan '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360 £20.9mm £20.0mm
PS3 £13.4mm £12.9mm
PC £4.1mm £3.0mm
Wii £10.8mm £3.4mm
NDS £5.1mm £2.2mm
3DS £4.5mm £2.9mm
PSV --- £1.1mm
Wii U --- £1.2mm
PSP £0.4mm £0.1mm
PS2 £0.0mm £0.0mm
---------------------------------------
Units Feb '12 Feb '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360 715K 715K
PS3 550K 530K
PC 250K 215K
Wii 320K 125K
NDS 240K 110K
3DS 120K 90K
PSV --- 35K
Wii U --- 25K
PSP 25K 10K
PS2 0K 0K
---------------------------------------
Revenue Feb '12 Feb '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360 £19.4mm £19.9mm
PS3 £15.0mm £14.4mm
PC £3.2mm £3.0mm
Wii £6.6mm £2.3mm
NDS £3.9mm £1.7mm
3DS £3.5mm £2.3mm
PSV £3.0mm £0.8mm
Wii U --- £0.8mm
PSP £0.3mm £0.1mm
PS2 £0.0mm £0.0mm
---------------------------------------
Units YTD '12 YTD '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360 1570K 1530K
PS3 1120K 1075K
PC 565K 445K
Wii 855K 305K
NDS 545K 250K
3DS 280K 200K
PSV 95K 80K
Wii U --- 60K
PSP 55K 20K
PS2 5K 5K
---------------------------------------
Revenue YTD '12 YTD '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360 £40.4mm £39.9mm
PS3 £28.3mm £27.3mm
PC £7.3mm £6.0mm
Wii £17.4mm £5.7mm
NDS £9.0mm £3.9mm
3DS £8.0mm £5.2mm
PSV £3.0mm £1.9mm
Wii U --- £2.0mm
PSP £0.6mm £0.2mm
PS2 £0.0mm £0.0mmshinra-bansho
Member
Thank you, based jvm.
Anyway, continues to belie the idea that the UK market is dying - but rather implies certain parts of it are waning and are responsible for declines.
I would take from this that there's still a viable market for home consoles in the UK, but the bubble of the Wii has very much burst and handhelds have given way to iDevices and Androids. A 28% decline for the 3DS, considering how new it is to the market, doesn't really bode well.
With regard to PC's decline at retail, I think it's fair to assume that may be due to the advent of digital downloads.
Not sure if there's any data from a similar period last generation.
Also, does anyone remember if anything major released in March 2012? I wonder if Tomb Raider would be enough to bump the PS3 and 360 into positive Y/Y territory.
pieatorium
Member
So it is just still almost entirely Nintendo platforms making up the market losses even after the massive declines they had last year.
pieatorium
Member
Mass Effect 3 was the biggest release of the year when it hit in March last year iirc.
edit oops double post, was supposed to be an edit.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Lady Croft selling well in the UK?
I'm shocked! Shocked I tells ya!
Next you'll be telling me a James Bond movie is doing great in the DVD charts.
I'm shocked! Shocked I tells ya!
Next you'll be telling me a James Bond movie is doing great in the DVD charts.
pieatorium
Member
Wii software is down 64% yoy
DS software is down 55% yoy
3DS software is down 38% yoy
360 software is down 2.5% yoy
PS3 software is down 4% yoy
shinra-bansho
Member
Hmm, had a look back at the older PAL threads
Apparently SW units:
Week 09 2012 = 505,497
Week 10 2012 (Mass Effect 3) = 642,876
Week 11 2012 (FIFA Street) = 570,969
While I'm guessing overall March numbers will be down, Wii SW was still moving to an extent though.
Really want to know Tomb Raider actuals, rather than extrapolated maximum possibles.
pieatorium
Member
Theres also God of War, Gears of War and Bioshock this year for march so I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase for PS3/360 compared to last year.
PC will be up for sure with Starcraft and Simcity
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Yeah, very interesting numbers - thanks for sharing!
pieatorium
Member
I can do something similar, but it's more difficult to do and the data is less frequent. If you have a specific question, I'll see what I have.
pieatorium
Member
MrCookiepants
Member
Is this supposed to be for the whole of Europe? Because that number is way, way, way too big for the UK.
Jeez guys, why don't you just use Chartz if you're this desperate. :lol
pieatorium
Member
Fifa 13 sold over a million week one in the UK alone.
That post is a maximum extrapolated from other extrapolations it's meant as a guide and happens quite regularly in here since we don't get actual numbers.
Nice of you to drive by though.
pieatorium
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
Those extrapolations I did are very, very rough and are largely just out of interest. And they're just maxima.
A slight tweaking of how it's calculated essentially shaves off 100K from the theoretical maximum first week of Tomb Raider for example.
No one should be using those numbers as anything but the loosest of indications.
I mainly just do the FIFA one because W/W has been consistently given and there was a good starting point to work from a while ago.
A slight tweaking of how it's calculated essentially shaves off 100K from the theoretical maximum first week of Tomb Raider for example.
No one should be using those numbers as anything but the loosest of indications.
I mainly just do the FIFA one because W/W has been consistently given and there was a good starting point to work from a while ago.
Well, I have to admit I was wrong: Nintendo is still the main culript for UK decline. Or better, Wii: it lost an insane amount of sales compared to 2012. Wow, didn't think it'd have been again so big Nintendo's (Wii's) contribute. Probably 3DS February could have been flat if it had releases like RE: Revelations and M&S.