• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PAL Charts - Week 11, 2013

madmackem

Member
I'll let y'all have fun with these. UK market.
Code:
---------------------------------------
Units		Jan '12		Jan '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360	860K		810K
PS3		575K		545K
PC		310K		230K
Wii		535K		180K
NDS		310K		140K
3DS		160K		110K
PSV		---		 45K
Wii U		---		 35K
PSP		 30K		 15K
PS2		  5K		  0K

---------------------------------------
Revenue		Jan '12		Jan '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360	£20.9mm		£20.0mm
PS3		£13.4mm		£12.9mm
PC		 £4.1mm		 £3.0mm
Wii		£10.8mm		 £3.4mm
NDS		 £5.1mm		 £2.2mm
3DS		 £4.5mm		 £2.9mm
PSV		---		 £1.1mm
Wii U		---		 £1.2mm
PSP		 £0.4mm		 £0.1mm
PS2		 £0.0mm		 £0.0mm

---------------------------------------
Units		Feb '12		Feb '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360	715K		715K
PS3		550K		530K
PC		250K		215K
Wii		320K		125K
NDS		240K		110K
3DS		120K		 90K
PSV		---		 35K
Wii U		---		 25K
PSP		 25K		 10K
PS2		  0K		  0K

---------------------------------------
Revenue		Feb '12		Feb '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360	£19.4mm		£19.9mm
PS3		£15.0mm		£14.4mm
PC		 £3.2mm		 £3.0mm
Wii		 £6.6mm		 £2.3mm
NDS		 £3.9mm		 £1.7mm
3DS		 £3.5mm		 £2.3mm
PSV		 £3.0mm		 £0.8mm
Wii U		---		 £0.8mm
PSP		 £0.3mm		 £0.1mm
PS2		 £0.0mm		 £0.0mm

---------------------------------------
Units		YTD '12		YTD '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360	1570K		1530K
PS3		1120K		1075K
PC		 565K		 445K
Wii		 855K		 305K
NDS		 545K		 250K
3DS		 280K		 200K
PSV		  95K		  80K
Wii U		---		  60K
PSP		  55K		  20K
PS2		   5K		   5K

---------------------------------------
Revenue		YTD '12		YTD '13
---------------------------------------
Xbox 360	£40.4mm		£39.9mm
PS3		£28.3mm		£27.3mm
PC		 £7.3mm		 £6.0mm
Wii		£17.4mm		 £5.7mm
NDS		 £9.0mm		 £3.9mm
3DS		 £8.0mm		 £5.2mm
PSV		 £3.0mm		 £1.9mm
Wii U		---		 £2.0mm
PSP		 £0.6mm		 £0.2mm
PS2		 £0.0mm		 £0.0mm

Thanks, ive been posting on another thread that this so called dieing market was mostly down to nintendo falling off a cliff here more so than the whole market dieing.
 

Jezbollah

Member
Thanks, ive been posting on another thread that this so called dieing market was mostly down to nintendo falling off a cliff here more so than the whole market dieing.

Yep, I think that's a pattern that a lot of UKers have been seeing, myself included. This is why I think we wont see at all the launch troubles for the PS4/NextBox that we have seen for the Wii U.

Nintendo are in serious trouble in this country.
 
In March 07 it wasn't simply price holding things back. PS3 was losing big exclusives left and right and that trend was accelerating, PSN was lightyears behind XBL feature/content wise with no sign of catching up, 3rd party games were bombing spectacularly, 3rd party games were also running apprecuably worse than 360, meanwhile Wii was breaking PS2 sales records, Japanese devs were retreating to DS/PSP while the west was becoming more firmly entrenched in 360 (where their games actually sold), HD-DVD was still at a competitive point in the format war... the idea that Sony could turn it all around was a very open question in March 07, which isn't so far removed from Wii U's situation now.

I think it's fair to say the platform's 3rd party commitments were far stronger than what they are for Wii U, though that's somewhat countered by SCEWWS being more or less irrelevant compared to Nintendo's 1st party in most consumers' eyes. And in terms of overall R&D workforce, Nintendo and SCE are pretty close overall. SCE is more diversified and global while Nintendo's more centralized and national, but the latter still ends up putting out more product annually anyway.

I still don't see how the situation is comparable at all. PS3 had FAR better 3rd party support than the wii U and because of the existence of the 360 the PS3 was guaranteed multi-platform support even while it struggled. Nintendos first party line-up does not make for it's lack of 3rd party support at all.

The PS3 also wasn't released a year before 2 other consoles which were a generation ahead of it. PSN was lightyears behind XBL but it's not like wii U is in a better situation now when it comes to online and within a year it's going to get a whole lot worse.

I don't see how HD-DVD/blu-ray matters. Sure it wasn't guaranteed (even though it was quite likely) but that was at least something they had going for them. Nintendo don't have any new format so i don't see how they are going to benefit from that.

The success of the wii means nothing. 3rd parties ignored it and just kept throwing everything at the PS3. Wii sales would only have mattered if it affected 3rd party support which it didn't so it means nothing for the PS3's fortunes.

Then there is the whole PS3 selling much better than the wii U. They both started out similar in the US and Japan (though i imagine it won't be long before wii U falls behind) but in Europe it's night and day between them.

The wii U isn't dead and i won't guarantee it will fail (who can?) but it's in a worse spot than the PS3 ever was.
 

Bruno MB

Member
January + February 2012

Wii = 855.000 pieces of software sold.

January + February 2013

Wii + Wii U + NDS + 3DS = 815.000 pieces of software sold.

It's hard to believe how Nintendo let this happen.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Yep, I think that's a pattern that a lot of UKers have been seeing, myself included. This is why I think we wont see at all the launch troubles for the PS4/NextBox that we have seen for the Wii U.

Nintendo are in serious trouble in this country.
So they should be. They simply don't deliver at the level that MS & Sony do and it's starting to catch up with them. About time too.
 
Well, I have to admit I was wrong: Nintendo is still the main culript for UK decline. Or better, Wii: it lost an insane amount of sales compared to 2012. Wow, didn't think it'd have been again so big Nintendo's (Wii's) contribute. Probably 3DS February could have been flat if it had releases like RE: Revelations and M&S.

I was a bit surprised at the holds for PS3/360 aswell, the biggest concern here for Nintendo is that Wii and DS are still well above 3DS and WiiU so even if the new platforms begin to improve the death of the old systems still have some distance to fall.
 

Kikujiro

Member
Someone needs to copy/paste jvm numbers at the beginning of every sales thread because we still have people who think UK market is collapsing, not only it's not collapsing, but both X360 and PS3 are holding extremely well despite being 8 years old consoles.
 
Same analysis as last time.

February 2012 vs Feb 2013 unit sales:

Total market decrease - 16.4%
Non-Nintendo decrease - 2.3%
Non-Nintendo decrease console only - 0.0%
Nintendo decrease - 48.5%

Still shows a collapse in Nintendo's software sales and the new platforms not picking up the slack. Interestingly, the drop in PSP and PS3 game sales were actually made up by Vita game sales and it's highly likely that digital sales account for a fair number on Vita, so PlayStation as a platform will be up slightly YoY.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I'm wondering what Nintendo could do in UK. They need to change their perception fast. It's the only country in the world where a title like NSMB2 is around the 30th place in a top 40 like the UK one; in all the main others it's in top 10, or even top 5. What do you suppose they should do for UK, since it's only in UK they're facing such massive problems? Being aggressive with prices? Lots of ads for being relevant to customers?
 

Raist

Banned
I'm wondering what Nintendo could do in UK. They need to change their perception fast. It's the only country in the world where a title like NSMB2 is around the 30th place in a top 40 like the UK one; in all the main others it's in top 10, or even top 5. What do you suppose they should do for UK, since it's only in UK they're facing such massive problems? Being aggressive with prices? Lots of ads for being relevant to customers?

It's really not just the UK.

I don't think it's a visibility problem. There were lots of ads in the UK around launch. Pricing might be an issue, but I doubt it'd do Wii level sales if it were priced similarly.

When it's all said and done, PS360 will probably do similar numbers than PS2+XBOX. so that market stayed incredibly stable. Now Nintendo incredibly expended their market, but seemingly completely failed at keeping it interested in buying a new machine. And that's at least in part due to their complete 180 on their philosophy that made the Wii successful (very simple, accessible stuff, that many people can enojy within seconds of playing).
I don't know how they can turn this around, but I doubt it's going to be by just dropping the price and putting more ads out.
 
I'm wondering what Nintendo could do in UK. They need to change their perception fast. It's the only country in the world where a title like NSMB2 is around the 30th place in a top 40 like the UK one; in all the main others it's in top 10, or even top 5. What do you suppose they should do for UK, since it's only in UK they're facing such massive problems? Being aggressive with prices? Lots of ads for being relevant to customers?

I think a bigger problem for Nintendo is that the UK is a leading indicator. What happens in the UK tends to filter down to the rest of Europe over a few years. Just recently we've been seeing a popularity rise for Xbox in Germany, portables dying in Spain and generally the rest of Europe aligning with the UK (except France which remains solidly in Nintendo's camp). It's troubling for Nintendo because PS4 and Durango are coming out very soon, and whatever momentum Nintendo build in their new platforms is going to disappear the minute these two consoles are out. Not only that, the "throw a Mario game at the problem" clearly hasn't worked this time, NSMBU is a launch game and it will go on to be the worst selling 2D Mario of all time.

People say Sony and Microsoft are going to have a problem next gen because their games are going to be the same just in a higher resolution and slightly prettier, but right now it's Nintendo who have that problem. The other issue is that PS3 and 360 gamers have an appetite for pretty games, so there might be enough people looking to upgrade based on fancy graphics and that will support development of new games and new ideas. Nintendo still haven't shown why people who bought the Wii should buy the Wii U, HD NSMB is not going to cut it and neither are any of the games they currently have lined up, they are just HD versions of Wii games, and the Wii userbase clearly doesn't give a shit about graphics like the PS3/360 userbase.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Thanks for the cold hard numbers, jvm! Theyre gonna get a lot of mileage around this forum with the usual blithering "BUT UK MARKET DYING THO, LOL?" idiots. I love the idea that the millions still buying Xbox or Playstation gaming consoles will go no further and not jump to the next hardware generation, but rather just stop playing games entirely.

Uk-based Nintendeath, nothing to it. Looks like a totally dying company over here and seemingly Iwata doesn't have anything to change that. When you choose to never expand outwards and pick up western studios or invest in larger more native marketing and PR branches (Nintendo UK used to be a thing didnt it? Now they're just phantoms), this is what you reap.

I'm wondering what Nintendo could do in UK. They need to change their perception fast. It's the only country in the world where a title like NSMB2 is around the 30th place in a top 40 like the UK one; in all the main others it's in top 10, or even top 5. What do you suppose they should do for UK, since it's only in UK they're facing such massive problems? Being aggressive with prices? Lots of ads for being relevant to customers?

Things like Inazuma Eleven never getting the proper push it should have done over here in FOOTBALL-LAND is just a reason why Nintendo deserves this level of failure. Plenty of UK studios that were going cheaply into oblivion that could have developed more UK native product to bump up their software portfolio, but Nintendo never chose to step in on prime opportunities like Bizarre, Eurocom, etc. Don't you dare spend any of that money Iwata, it looks like everythings just peachy!!

So conclusion: Theres stuff they could have done 2 years ago but havent, so will just remain fucked.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I think a bigger problem for Nintendo is that the UK is a leading indicator. What happens in the UK tends to filter down to the rest of Europe over a few years. Just recently we've been seeing a popularity rise for Xbox in Germany, portables dying in Spain and generally the rest of Europe aligning with the UK (except France which remains solidly in Nintendo's camp). It's troubling for Nintendo because PS4 and Durango are coming out very soon, and whatever momentum Nintendo build in their new platforms is going to disappear the minute these two consoles are out. Not only that, the "throw a Mario game at the problem" clearly hasn't worked this time, NSMBU is a launch game and it will go on to be the worst selling 2D Mario of all time.

People say Sony and Microsoft are going to have a problem next gen because their games are going to be the same just in a higher resolution and slightly prettier, but right now it's Nintendo who have that problem. The other issue is that PS3 and 360 gamers have an appetite for pretty games, so there might be enough people looking to upgrade based on fancy graphics and that will support development of new games and new ideas. Nintendo still haven't shown why people who bought the Wii should buy the Wii U, HD NSMB is not going to cut it and neither are any of the games they currently have lined up, they are just HD versions of Wii games, and the Wii userbase clearly doesn't give a shit about graphics like the PS3/360 userbase.

I don't see 360 as the main console for Europe, especially Germany where, when we've had top 100 charts, we've seen the very little amount of 360 titles in there...so quite the contrary; last year 3DS saw a +75% in software sales in Spain, and there PSP still do well thanks to all the Essentials, so not dying at all. So no, UK isn't the Holy Grail indicator of everything in Europe.

But it's true that solving problems in UK would actually have a positive effect in all the other territories.
 
I don't see 360 as the main console for Europe, especially Germany where, when we've had top 100 charts, we've seen the very little amount of 360 titles in there...so quite the contrary; last year 3DS saw a +75% in software sales in Spain, and there PSP still do well thanks to all the Essentials, so not dying at all. So no, UK isn't the Holy Grail indicator of everything in Europe.

Another point is that the WiiU actually sold worse in most of EU compared to the UK. I think most EU countries have their own little differences but one consistent thing seems to be that the HD consoles of this gen are staying at the top and that Nintendo platforms aren't putting up much competition.
 
I'm wondering what Nintendo could do in UK. They need to change their perception fast. It's the only country in the world where a title like NSMB2 is around the 30th place in a top 40 like the UK one; in all the main others it's in top 10, or even top 5. What do you suppose they should do for UK, since it's only in UK they're facing such massive problems? Being aggressive with prices? Lots of ads for being relevant to customers?

I think those are questions all hardware makers will face next year. It's hard to think the problem is specific to Nintendo. The fact that the other platforms are not showing such a decline is only because they already have an established userbase. A userbase, though, that is not buying as it happened some years ago. And not that Vita is doing greatly.
 
Asked before but not sure if answered - presumably the Wii U units for Jan and Feb include bundled Nintendo Land?
Per market share it was marginally better in Germany and better in France.
ibgAi5uwEF63eR.jpg
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Another point is that the WiiU actually sold worse in most of EU compared to the UK. I think most EU countries have their own little differences but one consistent thing seems to be that the HD consoles of this gen are staying at the top and that Nintendo platforms aren't putting up much competition.

If your're including Nintendo portables in the equation

ibgAi5uwEF63eR.jpg


In all the countries 3DS outsold at least one HD consoles last year (even in UK, which is...quite shocking looking at software numbers) and in France, Italy and Belgium it has been the best selling platform.

EDIT: shinra, you stole my graph!
 

DrWong

Member
Asked before but not sure if answered - presumably the Wii U units for Jan and Feb include bundled Nintendo Land?
Per market share it was marginally better in Germany and better in France.
ibgAi5uwEF63eR.jpg

Yeah, so my "?" is valid: "marginally better" doesn't sound like "worse" to me.
 
Yeah, so my "?" is valid: "marginally better" doesn't sound like "worse" to me.
In two countries out of 6 others shown.

The difference between Germany and the UK in units presumably wasn't large, and we already have Road's pixel count telling us that ~430K was sold.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I think those are questions all hardware makers will face next year. It's hard to think the problem is specific to Nintendo. The fact that the other platforms are not showing such a decline is only because they already have an established userbase. A userbase, though, that is not buying as it happened some years ago. And not that Vita is doing greatly.

The other platforms arent showing this sort of decline because the titles the market normally expects to enjoy are still releasing on those platforms in great numbers. They are not releasing on the WiiU. Developers are gearing up for the transition to PS4 and Durango, with a cross-gen buffer, and then this same market will follow the games to these new platforms.
 
But what's the point? What's so surprising in the fact that 2 of the biggest EU market (FR/GER) are doing better than the 3 you listed? I mean hopefully FR or GER did better than Belgium.
It's market share as a percentage, not units. There's no reason to assume percentage share should necessarily be bigger in bigger markets.
 
When it's all said and done, PS360 will probably do similar numbers than PS2+XBOX. so that market stayed incredibly stable.

PS360 is already ahead of PS2+XBOX

I think a bigger problem for Nintendo is that the UK is a leading indicator. What happens in the UK tends to filter down to the rest of Europe over a few years. Just recently we've been seeing a popularity rise for Xbox in Germany
The UK market is not really a leading indicator of EUR/PAL

Installed Base - (*) Western Europe (excluding UK)

(*) EUR PS3 ~ 3.5 x UK PS3
(*) EUR 360 ~ 1.6 x UK 360


Xbox 360 sales dropped by 19% in EUR 2012 (including UK)
GER PS3 ~ 2x GER 360 in 2012



portables dying in Spain
Spain 2012 – Hardware Sales (Units)

Handeld Market = (Home Console Market – 62k)



People say Sony and Microsoft are going to have a problem next gen because their games are going to be the same just in a higher resolution and slightly prettier, but right now it's Nintendo who have that problem. The other issue is that PS3 and 360 gamers have an appetite for pretty games, so there might be enough people looking to upgrade based on fancy graphics and that will support development of new games and new ideas. Nintendo still haven't shown why people who bought the Wii should buy the Wii U, HD NSMB is not going to cut it and neither are any of the games they currently have lined up, they are just HD versions of Wii games, and the Wii userbase clearly doesn't give a shit about graphics like the PS3/360 userbase
The PS360 userbase doesn't care about graphics as evidenced by the terrible sales of the twins during the 2006-2008 period. Things improved because the industry stopped developing PS2 games,so consumers were forced to upgrade to PS360.

The PS360 will have an incredible lineup and price cuts over the next 2 years.Nintendo is still capable of creating hit titles and could lower the ASP.One year can change everything.

Consumers will lean towards current consoles in most PAL markets;Japanese companies won't support the high-end market...it's going to be a marathon.
 

Bruno MB

Member
yW8JH.png

Germany:
Week 11, 2013 - Individual Console Formats (Units)

01 (NE) PS3 GOD OF WAR: ASCENSION (SONY COMPUTER ENT.)
02 (NE) PS3 GOD OF WAR: ASCENSION (SPECIAL EDITION) (SONY COMPUTER ENT.)
03 (01) PS3 NARUTO SHIPPUDEN: ULTIMATE NINJA STORM 3 (NAMCO BANDAI GAMES)
04 (02) PS3 TOMB RAIDER (SQUARE ENIX EUROPE)
05 (NE) PS3 SNIPER: GHOST WARRIOR 2 (CITY INTERACTIVE)
06 (08) 3DS NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. 2 (NINTENDO)
07 (__) PS3 FIFA 13 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
08 (07) PS3 CRYSIS 3 HUNTER EDITION (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
09 (05) 360 NARUTO SHIPPUDEN: ULTIMATE NINJA STORM 3 (NAMCO BANDAI GAMES)
10 (__) WII JUST DANCE 4 (UBISOFT)
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
Week Ending 16 March 2013: £11.3mm on 437,041 units

YTD 2012 £158.1mm on 6.816mm units
YTD 2013 £129.4mm (-18%) on 5.389mm units (-21%)

Not much change from last week. Maintained both YOY rates in YTD figures.

Edit:
"FIFA 13 was just 70K units short of outselling BLOPS2 in 2012"
 

Moonstone

Member
Germany including PC

1.StarCraft II: Heart Of The Swarm - PC (NEU)
2.God Of War: Ascension - PS3 (NEU)
3.SimCity - PC (2)
4.Tomb Raider - PS3 (1)
5.Sniper: Ghost Warrior 2 - PS3 (NEU)
6.Die Sims 3: Wildes Studentenleben - PC (5)
7.StarCraft II: Wings Of Liberty - PC (22)
8.Tomb Raider - Xbox 360 (3)
9.Tomb Raider - PC (6)
10.Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 - Xbox 360 (4)
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
If you want to see how the retail-oriented press is writing about Wii U sales...
Nintendo moves to calm Wii U fears as unofficial UK price cuts fail

Nintendo UK has pledged to meet with retailers worried about the performance of its Wii U games console.

Growing dissatisfaction towards the new hardware has seen retailers Amazon, Asda, ShopTo and GameStop slash £50 off its price. But even that has failed to stimulate sales.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nint...u-fears-as-unofficial-price-cuts-fail/0112855

The rest of the text includes a quote: "They’ve got to do something otherwise it is GameCube all over again."
 

operon

Member
I don't see 360 as the main console for Europe, especially Germany where, when we've had top 100 charts, we've seen the very little amount of 360 titles in there...so quite the contrary; last year 3DS saw a +75% in software sales in Spain, and there PSP still do well thanks to all the Essentials, so not dying at all. So no, UK isn't the Holy Grail indicator of everything in Europe.

But it's true that solving problems in UK would actually have a positive effect in all the other territories.



zomgbbqftw never said that the xbox was the main console in Germany only that it's popularity was rising
 

Dinda

Member
zomgbbqftw never said that the xbox was the main console in Germany only that it's popularity was rising

Are there any numbers on that? I'm German and to me it feels like the 360 is becoming less and less of a factor here.


And i would also absolutely question the following part

I think a bigger problem for Nintendo is that the UK is a leading indicator. What happens in the UK tends to filter down to the rest of Europe over a few years..
If anything i have the feeling that the UK is basically more like the US market (minus Madden plus Football Manager) and have very little relevance for Mainland Europe.

Hell, Halo 4 on 360 sold about half what Farming Simulator for PC sold in Germany.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
JVM your avi has been driving me crazy for months bro use this instead:
i2gZr3NU92P9R.png
Thanks, BruceLeeRoy. Hope y'all like the new one!

Edit: And I see that the MCV UK item did result in another thread. Hoo-boy. Y'all sure do like kicking the hornet's nest.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Ok

http://ukie.info/content/ukie-week-12-2013-uk-video-games-charts

http://ukie.info/content/ukie-week-7-2013-uk-video-games-charts-0

Is the one who updates the site drunk or what? :lol

EDIT: Thank God Chart Track help us!

http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110032

The fourth instalment in the Gears of War series is a prequel and as such cannot match the launch week sales of its hugely popular predecessor which sold 4 times more in its first week. Sales of ‘Tomb Raider’ drop by 44%, but it still manages to stay ahead of another ‘survival’ themed title, Activision Blizzard’s ‘The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct’, a new entry at No3.
A survivor of another kind is ‘FIFA 13’ (+32%), 26 weeks never outside the Top 6 and up 2 places this week to No4. In their second weeks of release ‘Sniper: Ghost Warrior 2’ (-37%) and ‘God of War: Ascension’ (-61%) both fall one place and four places respectively to No’s 5 and 6. ‘Monster Hunter 3: Ultimate Edition’ debuts at No7 with the 3DS version accounting for 55% of sales and Wii U the rest. The Wii U title accounts for almost 50% of the value generated by all Wii U software this week. ‘SimCity’ (-33%) drops from No5 to No8, ahead of previous All Formats No1s ‘Far Cry 3’ (+18%) at No9 and ‘Call of Duty: Black Ops II’ (+27%) at No10.

Price promotions give a boost to ‘Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance’ (+114%), up from No19 to No11 and ‘Aliens: Colonial Marines’ (+71%) up from No21 to No16.
 

Bruno MB

Member
As expected the only new Wii U or PSV title that charted is Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.

I'm surprised to see it so close to the 3DS version, bundles must have helped. Anyway, no matter how hard they try, this series will never be big.
 
Top Bottom