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Message board offers cash reward to the developer of 360 chatpad driver

Blizzard

Banned
Nobiru said:
im confused.


If im reading this correctly, then of course it works, the windows controller and the 360 controller are the exact same controller. why wouldnt they both work on a 360?


I do hope someone gets this to work eventually though! could be so nice for MMOs!
Well, it may end up being a stupid question and they are the same.

Currently, though, the chatpad works on a Mac (see my earlier post about the guy who MADE that driver vanishing...no one has been able to contact him that I know of). At least one person has verified it, and they had an Intel Mac with OS X 10.6, and a normal XBox 360 controller.

Then two other people, with OS X 10.4 and 10.6 (at least one of them Intel) tried the same driver, with a "made for Windows" controller. It didn't work for either of them, and it "didn't work" in the same way (just lighting up the keys instead of the keys working). So what I am hoping is that the guy who made the Mac driver made it work with the normal 360 controller because that's what he had for testing, and there's just some subtle difference we have to figure out in Windows.

I'm asking all these details because I am having to analyze the USB capture data and try to do the same commands in Windows, and I need to figure out what's different about the Mac that worked. :)
 

Blizzard

Banned
This message was typed from the chatpad in Windows. I got lucky and found something. There is still work to do, though...
 

Boonoo

Member
Blizzard said:
This message was typed from the chatpad in Windows. I got lucky and found something. There is still work to do, though...

Nice! Do the sticks operate the mouse cursor? It would be nice if you could use the 360 pad for full on couch use.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Boonoo said:
Nice! Do the sticks operate the mouse cursor? It would be nice if you could use the 360 pad for full on couch use.
That's exactly my plan. I could use just one stick for the mouse but two would probably be easier if I can think of a user-friendly way to do it. I also plan to enable the mouse by using either the orange or the green toggle, so you can switch over to mouse mode vs. normal control mode. I should also try to support the back triggers and/or buttons as mouse buttons in that mode.

The biggest difficulty now, aside from testing with controllers I don't own (like the wireless ones, or normal 360 non-made-for-Windows ones, which apparently MAY be different), is supporting full normal 360 controller functionality. I don't know if there is any way that's not a giant pain for me to make a virtual device so the official Microsoft driver can just work as normal. Unfortunately, it may also be a pain for me to provide that same support myself in a way that doesn't break games or have horrible performance, so I will just have to see how it turns out. Like I said, there's still work to do!

By the way, the chatpad comes in black as well as white, and it's backlit for anyone who didn't know. It lights up when you press keys. It's $20-30 too especially if you find one used, which isn't too bad.
 
Blizzard said:
I also plan to enable the mouse by using either the orange or the green toggle, so you can switch over to mouse mode vs. normal control mode.

That would be neat, but really I'm just thrilled to have a controller+keyboard hybrid that works on Windows. It seems like you've got this down. Should I go ahead and order a chatpad or are there some major issues you still haven't hammered out?
 

Blizzard

Banned
SuperAngelo64 said:
That would be neat, but really I'm just thrilled to have a controller+keyboard hybrid that works on Windows. It seems like you've got this down. Should I go ahead and order a chatpad or are there some major issues you still haven't hammered out?
If you want to be cautious you can wait a few days until I make sure I get controller input supported as well. I ordered a $250-ish used old Mac laptop to do USB monitoring myself but now it seems I may not need it. Oh well, new piece of hardware. :lol

Do you know any common games that work with the 360 controller, but require some odd workaround (like XPadder) to work with other controllers? If so, someone please let me know, since I want to make sure that the game still works even without the official 360 controller driver.
 
Blizzard said:
Do you know any common games that work with the 360 controller, but require some odd workaround (like XPadder) to work with other controllers? If so, someone please let me know, since I want to make sure that the game still works even without the official 360 controller driver.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the PC Version of Phantasy Star Universe works this way.
 

Blizzard

Banned
SuperAngelo64 said:
I'm not 100% sure but I think the PC Version of Phantasy Star Universe works this way.
Darn, don't have it. I can at least start by trying a Steam game or two that have 360 icon button prompts. FUEL and maybe Tomb Raider Underworld have that if I recall correctly...
 
Zenith said:
had to google what it was.

chatpad.jpg


You have a mouse and keyboard and you're actually willing to pay to use this instead?
If you could use that as a compact mouse/keyboard for a media center pc hooked up to your tv, that would probably be a lot better than using a mouse/keyboard on your couch
 

erragal

Member
Blizzard said:
Darn, don't have it. I can at least start by trying a Steam game or two that have 360 icon button prompts. FUEL and maybe Tomb Raider Underworld have that if I recall correctly...

The Last Remnant may be like this. I played it with the wired 360 controller (The original one they released about 3/4 years ago that didn't have any special Windows branding) and it had perfect support. Not sure if this is helpful, but I figure I'd mention it.

EDIT: I don't have a chatpad, but if you need me to test strict game functionality with your driver I'd be more than willing to do that as well. (I also remembered I have Tropico in my steam library which could have similar 360 controller support)

Good luck!
 

Blizzard

Banned
Darn, looks like one or two other people/teams have also said in the last week that they have a driver release near. If only I hadn't waited until two weeks ago to actually start working on this. :lol The end timing is unfortunate, considering people have been working on this for like two years.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I SUMMON THE VAST POWER OF GAMING FORUM!

Does anyone here have Aquaria and a 360 controller? In particular, has anyone ever heard of the XBCD driver (open-source third-party xbox/xbox 360 controller driver)? I may have already tried this myself, but I would like someone else, if they can find a compatible XBCD driver version for their OS, to temporarily install that driver.

1. Does it show up in the control panel game controllers section, and if you go into the properties, do you see the bars and lights flashing around when you move the joysticks and press buttons?

2. If the answer to the above is yes, then run Aquaria. Can you use the controller ingame?

3. Roll back to the original official 360 controller drivers. Can you use the controller ingame now?

I want to verify that Aquaria supports XInput only. Ideally, my solution will work with Aquaria but third-party drivers will not (currently). :)
 
Blizzard said:
I SUMMON THE VAST POWER OF GAMING FORUM!

Does anyone here have Aquaria and a 360 controller? In particular, has anyone ever heard of the XBCD driver (open-source third-party xbox/xbox 360 controller driver)? I may have already tried this myself, but I would like someone else, if they can find a compatible XBCD driver version for their OS, to temporarily install that driver.

1. Does it show up in the control panel game controllers section, and if you go into the properties, do you see the bars and lights flashing around when you move the joysticks and press buttons?

2. If the answer to the above is yes, then run Aquaria. Can you use the controller ingame?

3. Roll back to the original official 360 controller drivers. Can you use the controller ingame now?

I want to verify that Aquaria supports XInput only. Ideally, my solution will work with Aquaria but third-party drivers will not (currently). :)

Bump for Gaf Support.
I dont have it but here's hoping somebody does!
GO BLIZZARD
 

Blizzard

Banned
xKilltheMx said:
Bump for Gaf Support.
I dont have it but here's hoping somebody does!
GO BLIZZARD
Alternatively, if someone has one of these games and wants to try the same steps listed above with the XBCD driver, it should be the same:

Wikipedia XInput games said:
Alone in the Dark
Alien vs Predator (2010)
Alpha Protocol (2010)
Aquaria
Assassin's Creed (only original XBOX360 Wired Controller, other ones will be handled by DirectInput, including XBOX360 Wireless Controller)
Assassin's Creed II (wireless controller doesn't work, other wired XInput devices do work)
Attack on Pearl Harbor
Audiosurf
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Battlestations: Midway
Beowulf
Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Blazing Angels 2: Secret Missions of WWII
Blur
Bionic Commando Rearmed
BioShock
Braid
Call of Duty: World at War
Champions Online
Colin McRae Rally 2
Colin McRae: DiRT
Conflict: Denied Ops
Crysis
Crysis Warhead
Clive Barker's Jericho
Dark Sector
Darwinia
Dead Space
DiRT 2
Dead Rising 2
Devil May Cry 4
Eragon
Fallout 3
Fallout: New Vegas
Far Cry 2
FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage
Fuel
Flight Simulator X
Gears of War
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved
Grand Theft Auto IV
Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock
Halo 2
Happy Tree Friends: False Alarm
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Jade Empire
Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights
Kane & Lynch: Dead Men
Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days
Kung Fu Panda
Left 4 Dead
Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
Lego Batman: The Video Game
Lego Harry Potter: Years 1–4
Lost
Lost Planet: Extreme Condition
Mafia II
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Mirror's Edge
Overlord
Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End
Prince of Persia
Prison Break: The Conspiracy
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Pro Evolution Soccer 2009
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010
Pro Evolution Soccer 2011
Prototype
Race Driver: GRID
Rainbow Six: Vegas
Rainbow Six: Vegas 2
Rayman: Raving Rabbids
Resident Evil 5
Saints Row 2
Sega Rally Revo
Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter
Shadowrun
Spider-Man: Friend or Foe
Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Street Fighter IV
The Club
The Maw
The Orange Box (Source 2007 engine)
TMNT
Toki Tori
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Transformers: The Game
Trine
Turok
Unreal Tournament 3
Velvet Assassin
Virtua Tennis 3
Virtua Tennis 2009
Viva Pinata
 
I have Audiosurf. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, the XBCD site doesn't mention anything about compatibility with that OS. If it works I'll tinker around with this in a few hours.

Edit: after a few minutes of browsing I found that you can get it to work in Windows 7 x64 with Driver Sig Enforcement Overriding software. Is this a good idea?
 

Blizzard

Banned
SuperAngelo64 said:
I have Audiosurf. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, the XBCD site doesn't mention anything about compatibility with that OS. If it works I'll tinker around with this in a few hours.

Edit: after a few minutes of browsing I found that you can get it to work in Windows 7 x64 with Driver Sig Enforcement Overriding software. Is this a good idea?
You shouldn't need to use DSEO. That's a workaround that personally I can't vouch for -- I don't know if its source is available. Unless I am mistaken, DSEO just lets you run unsigned kernel drivers without having to hit F8 on boot.

If the XBCD 360-controller driver version you have can be installed through whatever process, you SHOULD just have to hit F8 when Windows is about to boot (hit it a few times right as the BIOS information is going away), and then select the option at the bottom to allow unsigned drivers. You will have to do this EACH time you boot. It's annoying. It's Vista/Windows 7 64-bit. You'll have to do this with my driver, unless I get it test signed or some magic and funding happens to buy an actual cert.

Of course, it'd be easiest if someone had XP, but that's more rare these days.
 

dangeROSS

Member
Thanks Blizzard for putting so much time and work into this.

I've got a wired 360 pad and 1 or 2 of the games you mentioned. I'm at work now, but when i get back this weekend I'll try and test them with XBCD.
 
Okay. So I plugged in my 360 controller for the first time in this machine (new computer), it installed the default drivers. I played a round of Audiosurf and it worked fine (awesome game, btw).

I then installed the newest XBCD drivers (1.06). It prompted me about overwriting the old controller drivers and installed itself and prompted a restart. I restarted my computer.

Disabled the the sig enforcement at the Windows boot screen.

Ran Audiosurf. Works exactly the same as it did prior to installing XBCD.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Ah. Word from the mp3car forum is that some games default back to DirectInput if XInput is not available. It sounds like there may be a XInput sample utility I can test from the DirectX SDK.

Would you mind linking the specific XBCD install package you used? That'd be awesome, thanks. :)
 
Blizzard said:
Ah. Word from the mp3car forum is that some games default back to DirectInput if XInput is not available. It sounds like there may be a XInput sample utility I can test from the DirectX SDK.

Would you mind linking the specific XBCD install package you used? That'd be awesome, thanks. :)


I used this

http://www.redcl0ud.com/xbcd.html#download

EDIT: My chatpad just came in the mail. It's a neat little thing, I like the way it feels more than I thought I would.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
You still need somebody with Aquaria or did Audiosurf answer your question?
 

Blizzard

Banned
Htown said:
You still need somebody with Aquaria or did Audiosurf answer your question?
Go for it if you have it. I'm trying to find something that XBCD doesn't work with, to make sure that my understanding of XBCD is correct (i.e. it does not support XInput without an emulator).

...of course, the XBCD install may actually INSTALL said emulator, thus making this a silly exercise. :lol I'll take a look at it in a bit. Real work's over for the week! It's time for pizza and then hopefully a productive evening!
 

Blizzard

Banned
Gah, sorry about the confusion. It looks like in addition to the original XBCD install from http://www.redcl0ud.com/xbcd, you need the update to support the 360 controller from here: http://matt-land.com/xbcd/.

I had some weirdness trying to install this time, but it looks like I got it to install a few days ago since it's still a driver option. Also, Aquaria has an "enable gamepad" option that has to be set from a special configuration utility. I feel dumb!
 

Songbird

Prodigal Son
I'd really like to help you, but you'll need to be a little more specific. I own Aquaria, Serious Sam HD and a few other games on the list but is this a certain file you need? Would love to get this done.

Ed: Going to try these unofficial drivers now and get back to you?
 

Blizzard

Banned
Thnikkaman said:
I'd really like to help you, but you'll need to be a little more specific. I own Aquaria, Serious Sam HD and a few other games on the list but is this a certain file you need? Would love to get this done.

Ed: Going to try these unofficial drivers now and get back to you?
Well, I apparently screwed up since I didn't have gamepad support turned on in Aquaria. I'm trying to see if third-party drivers don't support XInput. As far as I know, no open-source drivers do. I have XBCD installed now, but the official driver still seems to latch onto the device at the same time. I'll try uninstalling it.

I've also got the giant DirectX SDK installed now, so I have some XInput test programs to use. I'll try to update when I've made progress or when I need more help, and hopefully I won't make a stupid mistake next time!

Update again -- the wrapper that exists around XBCD to support XInput -is- opensource, I think, but it seems to involve using a replacement DLL. I'm gonna stop going down this side road now. My goal is to not require moving DLLs or wrappers or whatnot. :)
 

dangeROSS

Member
I tried using XBCD drivers for Alien vs. Predator (2010) with Windows 7. As far as I could tell the controller was recognized. It seemed to work.
 

Blizzard

Banned
dangeROSS said:
I tried using XBCD drivers for Alien vs. Predator (2010) with Windows 7. As far as I could tell the controller was recognized. It seemed to work.
Thanks for the update. At this point, I have made a good bit of progress on my own driver, but I'm stuck on a certain USB communication problem. I am still working on it though!
 

zombieshavebrains

I have not used cocaine
I remember when i got my 360 controller setup for grinding in WoW i started thinking, "Hey i wonder if i can use the chatpad for more buttons to use?" Tried it and didn't work, then hoped someone would make a way for it to work. This would be amazing if someone could get it to work. Opens the possibilities for doing lots of other things in games that are limited to just the buttons on the standard controller.
 

Nabs

Member
GavinGT said:
Give it to the guy who made the Kinect drivers in like 3 hours after it launched.
marcan? i was thinking the same thing :lol the stuff he pulled off with the wii is ridiculous.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Nabs said:
marcan? i was thinking the same thing :lol the stuff he pulled off with the wii is ridiculous.
Was he the guy who originally did the hardware hack stuff to get the Wii encryption keys? I remember I was having to dig the internet to find one of them just so I could work on the Brawl screenshot decrypter project, and he was a big help on it (plus he might have been the guy who got me the key I needed).
 
zombieshavebrains said:
I remember when i got my 360 controller setup for grinding in WoW i started thinking, "Hey i wonder if i can use the chatpad for more buttons to use?" Tried it and didn't work, then hoped someone would make a way for it to work. This would be amazing if someone could get it to work. Opens the possibilities for doing lots of other things in games that are limited to just the buttons on the standard controller.


I'm actually crossing my fingers for this because of an upcoming MMO. It's already being developed for 360 controller compatibility, but having the chatpad for extra keybinds and chatting while chillin' on the couch and using my HDTV as a display would be amazing.
 

Blizzard

Banned
SuperAngelo64 said:
I'm actually crossing my fingers for this because of an upcoming MMO. It's already being developed for 360 controller compatibility, but having the chatpad for extra keybinds and chatting while chillin' on the couch and using my HDTV as a display would be amazing.
If I actually manage to get it up and running, I have at least a couple of ideas for functions other than just plain chatpad keyboard text, but I don't want to promise anything yet. :)
 
Blizzard said:
If I actually manage to get it up and running, I have at least a couple of ideas for functions other than just plian chatpad keyboard text, but I don't want to promise anything yet. :)

Can't wait to see what you've got up your sleeve. It's hard to not get my hopes up. :D
 
Hey Blizzard, I've been following you over at MP3car, but haven't been posting because it takes so long to get a mod approval for new members to post. I've been following your every post via email update in a creepy stalker sort of way. :D

I just wanted to say you're doing an awesome job!
 

Blizzard

Banned
I had to do a change to how the driver is set up so that XInput stuff would recognize it, but after that point, I was able to play Mirror's Edge with the normal keyboard, normal mouse, 360 controller controls with various on-screen button labels, and optionally control Mirror's Edge with the chatpad keyboard and thumbstick-driven mouse.

......I do not recommend playing Mirror's Edge in this manner, however. :lol But hey, it kind of works. I'm now back to the point where, and a bit further than, my test program was over two weeks ago. It took me that time period to learn how to write a Windows driver, I suppose. On the plus side, now I can seamlessly support all XInput games as far as I know.

I have a bunch of basic keys supported, but not much punctuation etc. The mouse can be controlled by one thumbstick now, though I need to rework the mouse to be smoother, and also support both thumbsticks for more precision if possible. I need to figure out what to do about key repeats, and do some filtering or something since I still have occasional glitches where a key will get stuck down temporarily, or a key might register as being hit twice. The thumbstick-mouse is enabled by pressing the little "people" button on the chatpad, which glows orange. None of the normal 360 controller buttons work while that mode is enabled. When it's disabled, the glow goes away and the buttons etc. start working again.

The basic theory of things seems sound though, and I could basically take this route forwards and it should work with any game that supports the 360 controller. One big thing concerns me though. I'm using a Windows API call to generate mouse and keyboard input. I did a quick Google search, and the only game I saw that apparently blocks this may be some special protected version of Counterstrike (EASA or some acronym like that?). As long as the keyboard and mouse API I'm using works with nearly all games that's great, but mainly I want to verify that I'm not running any risk of getting myself or anyone else VAC banned. I've put in a support request asking the question, and PMed five admins/moderators on the Steam forums, so we'll see if I hear anything back by next week.

I have one more method I could use to do keyboard/mouse input. I should be able to make some virtual HID devices to completely simulate a mouse and keyboard, and I would hope that would be completely safe. It's also more of a pain to do, however, so I'd like to see if the first approach will work.

I'll try to post more updates on the mp3car forum as I make more progress in the next couple of days, and then whenever I get something released for testing I will announce it here as well. I PMed one mod here so far asking a related question, but I haven't heard back.
 

dangeROSS

Member
I agree, thanks for all the hard work Blizzard. I know myself, and a ton of other people really appreciate all the hard work you've put into this thing. Thanks again man!
 

Blizzard

Banned
tass0 said:
So did anyone write a driver for this yet or what?
I have, it's just not finished and released yet. :) I'm gonna try to make more progress today and tomorrow before the work week starts back.

*edit* Ugh, that's kind of what I was afraid of. My PM on the Steam forums got forwarded on to some Valve employees, which is good, but my official support request got this as a response:

Valve said:
Thank you for contacting Steam Support. We do not provide analysis VAC compliance. Any software, skins or other modifications you use in conjunction with Steam should be done at your own discretion. Only cheats (modifications designed to give one player an advantage over other players) will trigger a VAC ban.
So basically, they're not going to tell you if even a "skin" you make will get you VAC banned? As for advantage over other players, say I release this driver and utility to use it, and it's fine. Then someone else copies my open-source code, and makes an aimbot or a turbo controller using the same option, giving themselves an advantage. Does that mean VAC could then start banning for that technique, resulting in my utility being back-banned? :(

Kudos to the support person for responding on the Saturday after Thanksgiving, though.

*update again*
Valve said:
Once again, we do not provide analysis for VAC Compliance. The implication is that we will not provide you with any information regarding whether or not something will or will not trigger a VAC ban. I apologize, but we will not be able to assist you with your request for information.
I have to assume there's SOME reasonable way for people to develop software without worrying about this, but I suppose not. I suppose this means I'll be out of luck with the Valve employees at the Steam forum too. I'll just have to stamp a big disclaimer that says "Hey, I have no clue whether my drivers will get you VAC banned, sorry." :p
 
I've been following Blizzard closely on MP3car and he's been making a ton of progress!

He said the driver should be out around Christmas at the latest!

Awesome news, and great work!
 

Blizzard

Banned
SuperAngelo64 said:
I've been following Blizzard closely on MP3car and he's been making a ton of progress!

He said the driver should be out around Christmas at the latest!

Awesome news, and great work!
Of course, I actually said "I don't want to make any promises especially since I have a daytime job that takes most of my time, but I would like to think that at the very latest, I should have something out by Christmas."

Turns out I really am like Duke Nukem Forever (or HL2:Ep3 more appropriately) and it seems like there's hardly any chance I will have anything done by Christmas, at which point I will be pretty much unavailable for a week or so. So, maybe in a few months I'll have something out, who knows. :p
 
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