Wishmaster92
Member
Best looking environments and art style i have seen, but please fix the faces!
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New Shenmue III Screens plus note from Yu Suzuki - Playstation Blog
- Thread starter Spaghetti
- Start date
Council Pop
Member
I dunno why everyone is praising the environments- they look quite flat and generic, art style is like a PS2 CGI cutscene, and we haven't seen anything resembling actual gameplay so we don't know how tangible and explorable these environments will be in the finished game.
I want this game to be good but I don't think they have the budget. The first two games had massive AAA budgets, and the devs are treating this one like it does too, when it's actually got an indie level budget.
They should have done an episodic release, like Life Is Strange (which strangely really resembles Shenmue in a lot of ways). It would have allowed them to remain focused and present a streamlined resolution to the story which would have resisted direct comparisons to the first two games. Trying to creative an epic, sprawling open world game on an indie budget is just daft.
I want this game to be good but I don't think they have the budget. The first two games had massive AAA budgets, and the devs are treating this one like it does too, when it's actually got an indie level budget.
They should have done an episodic release, like Life Is Strange (which strangely really resembles Shenmue in a lot of ways). It would have allowed them to remain focused and present a streamlined resolution to the story which would have resisted direct comparisons to the first two games. Trying to creative an epic, sprawling open world game on an indie budget is just daft.
It's coming!!!!
I can't even respond to people lying about ps2 cgi capabilities I'm so happy.
Not really, no.
Making it episodic doesn't magically make the budget go further.
The environments look fine, if you expected more then you were just being unrealistic. Actually I think the character models themnselves aren't bad either, I think they just look off because of the lack of animation/expressions which gives the whole thing a very uncanny valley look.
Also, if this was Life is Strange or some other non-kickstarter game they would have waited another year to show it off.. You generally don't see regular games this early or if you do it's just a really polished vertical slice.
Council Pop
Member
You're really reaching here. Also, obviously an episodic format would mean that they could strip the game back to the essential stuff, do away with any 'open world' pretensions and just create a game which, like Shenmue 2, splits the action across various chapters and locations.
Considering how the definition of 'open world' has changed since 2001, fuck knows what they're actually trying to do with this. I honestly can't imagine. But I honestly think that episodic release is the only way to create a game like Shenmue and Shenmue 2, but for it not to feel absolutely archaic.
This game is meant to release in late 2018. Who waits until like four months before the release of their game before showing it in action?
I literally stated that I was talking about the art style, but also- PS2 could show any CGI video, seeing as it used the DVD format. So the only 'CGI capabilities' of the PS2 was the capability to show it in the first place lol. I'm obviosuly not talking about the PS2 actually rendering stuff.
LordKasual
Banned
holy shit????
This went from ps3 indie game to cray cray
This went from ps3 indie game to cray cray
Bethesda's does.
The Evil Within 2: Announced in June > Releasing in October
Wolfenstein II: Announced in June > Releasing in October
It's actually fairly common to show games way late into it's development, don't let games like Arkham Knight or Final Fantasy XV deceive you, common practice is showing the game way later because by then they've taken care of issues and don't have to worry about negatively effecting hype. Typical we see a games shown 6 to 9 months from it's release date, so whilst the original poster might have been a bit lenient with the year figure, it's not that far off.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
*watches trailer*
Well... Im still excited, damn it.
Well... Im still excited, damn it.
breakYODAy
Member
Those were reveal announcements though, which Shenmue 3 had to do in 2015, before anything had been done for the game just to raise funds. People have known this game was being made for a long time now, and backers had been getting more impatient with each gaming event being a no-show. Shenmue never got the chance to take the Bethesda route.
Backers expected they would show something at PSX last year, even though it was never promised or hinted at. They didn't. Some fans expressed disappointment.
Even more backers thought the game would show up at E3. It didn't. More fans expressing displeasure and stating monthly kickstarter updates weren't showing enough. The Shenmue team has been quietly (in comparison to the noise of the regular games media cycle) dealing with fan pressure to show their progress. They now have, and it is clear they have a ways to go, but still plenty of time to get where they need to be.
Unfortunately now we're in a place where a lot of people, on this board in particular, want to write this game off as destined to be terrible and turn it into a joke based on one minute of in-development footage. As someone who waited over a decade, lobbied whoever I could on the internet for years, and put down a lot of money to make sure this game had the best shot, that makes me angry.
This game could still be great. Keep your minds open and give it another chance next year people.
Cloudius12
Member
hmmm, hopefully it works out in the end. I enjoyed the engine in II.
YES!
I'm not disagreeing with your position. The point was Shenmue 3 is being shown way earlier than most games (lower budgetted) like it's type are and even large scale AAA games are shown way later in their dev cycle. Chances are if people got to see some of their favourite games a year and some months prior to release, most would look like unplayable messes.
breakYODAy
Member
I agree with you on that. Given this backlash, I would have announced to backers that only screenshots would be released this year, and no trailers would be released until 2018 when the animations and character models were ready for prime time.
Toni
Member
True.
The same scenario took place with that Darksiders 3 game early this year where animations weren't really there for it yet and the female protagonist's whip didn't elicit fun combat encounters.
Developers need to know first impressions are everything in the gaming industry.
zeopower6
Member
Well, this explains a lot and was kind of obvious. The faces didn't have animation because well, they took it out.
Soldiussnaku
Member
As you should be, the team has already created some incredibly detailed, stunning and beautiful environments worthy of games with much larger budgets on a relatively meagre budget. Even from early shots it was always obvious the focus was on the environments first.
All this bullshit about models and animation is typical Gaf snarkiness, ignorance and taking the piss out of a game that can still be classed as in alpha stage of development. It's the typical crowd not having a clue on dev workflows, timescales and prioritisation. There is PLENTY of time left to fix and enchance the faces, facial animation and general animation.
Unless Yu Suzuki does not have a fucking clue, which from his previous games and this one so far, isn't the case, we can expect much better faces and animation to match the incredible environments.
sure, some of the piss taking is just good humour, but people need to get a grip about the obvious facial issues being indicative of the final game.
Ryo Hazuki
Member
Unfinished game has unfinished elements in the footage. Shocker. I honestly just wish they would stop showing anything until it's complete. It's not doing the game any favors and just fuels the hyperbole around how shit the game looks. I know people can only judge what's shown so the solution is to stop showing the stuff that's still in progress. I don't know if they feel forced to show something to maintain interest or prove it's being worked on, but I don't even care, just wait and show it when it's ready, because it's obvious by the reactions in the recent threads that people can't distinguish that what's being shown isn't indicative of the final game.
Word.
I have no time for any of these cynics talking shit about facial animations and whatever else in a damn teaser. Yu Suzuki is one of the all-time masters of the medium. He did as much for gaming as Miyamoto. I'm just happy that he gets to continue working on his dream project.
zeopower6
Member
A lot of the stuff should really be backer only. I don't get why they had to put the backer video teaser on the PS YouTube. It's kind of annoying having to explain to people this or that regarding it being unfinished because well, it's not finished.
ZedLeppelin006
Banned
Omnii-chan
Member
That was my first thought, they look like figure statues.
Boards of Canada
Member
I just shit myself.
Yuzing mind to think of thoughts is how I role.
Toni
Member
GlassBurrito
Member
The first time this trailer was shown it was for attendees to Yu-san's dinner for top tier Kickstarter backers pictured below.
It was not shown anywhere public'y until the Playstation teaser released.
There's also a strategy in not tipping their hand. With this being mostly early footage the material that will be presented in the future will be a significant improvement, nearly a year and a half's worth of it. If there is anything to take away from this its that the work that was done close to 12 months ago looks good even if its a little rough.
If you have a gripe about the faces just know that the style of the original games appears mostly intact.
This is as close as you're gonna get for now.
Rodney McKay
Member
I'm glad they're going with this stylized look for the faces instead of trying for hyper realism or something.
I definitely don't want another repeat of Mass Effect Andromeda, and these people probably have a fraction of the budget too.
I definitely don't want another repeat of Mass Effect Andromeda, and these people probably have a fraction of the budget too.
Definitely agree that episodic releases would probably have been the best approach if there isn't an aim to finish the story with this game anyway.
Shenmue was always designed to be an episodic game in the first place (consisting of 16 episodes), it just unfortunately came at a time before such a model was actually viable. Chapter 2, which would have taken place on the boat for example, would be the kind of thing that would work well for an isolated episode of a game series, but is more difficult to justify the assets for as part of a retail scope game. Shenmue III continuing the story in episodic fashion would have given more flexibility to flesh out individual areas of the game, whilst also allowing recurring income via sales of episodes as they're released. I think a potential Shenmue IV will be much more difficult to draw funds from people if Shenmue III is visibly stretched thin, than an equivalent "Season 2" would have been if each episode of Shenmue III could have more attention focused on it.
adversarial
Member
I can't tell if the characters look terrible or I was just expecting something more.
eso76
Member
It's not like environments are using PBR or advanced shaders or photorealistic materials and lighting. They show exactly the same kind of upgrade characters got.
It's the same stylized artstyle or the original, in much greater texture res and geometry, and it's entirely faithful to something Sega would do in the 90s.
It looks kind of like 90's Arcade Racer.
Characters retained the same "anime rendered in 3d" aesthetics (thank Yu) of the original, similar to what you'd find in DOA games.
The only thing that's jarring is minor characters (like the old guy whistling) looking straight out of a Dreamcast with their faces textured on a basic shape.
If Shenmue 3's character models resembled those of Dead or Alive, nobody would be complaining.
Dead or Alive despite looking a bit dated now having been carried across a generation, pretty much nails the aesthetics it aims for, and has a great consistency, so characters don't look like they have heads created completely separate from their bodies, and their bodies don't look like the almost belong in a different game from the environments they are in.
If we had a Shenhua looking like this:
we'd all be reading a very different thread right now.
AfterTheFall
Member
As many have pointed out the environments look great, but those faces...
PdotMichael
Banned
Am2 is in a different league in character modeling and animations. YS Net isn't even close to that level of quality.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Bwaaaahahahahahahahaa!!!!
That's "Mac and Me"!!!!!
I used to LOVE that film!!!! Wow, I was like 4 when this released.
eso76
Member
I'm not saying they do right now, but that's the aesthetics they're aiming for and i trust their target will be met by release.
What I mean is, this is never going to be Hellblade.
Right now Shenhua is a mess, but I am rather confident the final model will look close to DOA stuff.
Heck, this is what she looked like in the realtime intro running on a friggin' Dreamcast
surely they can replicate that.
The Cartographer
Member
Hopefully we will see better faces in Shenmue 4.
I'm not saying they do right now, but that's the aesthetics they're aiming for and i trust their target will be met by release.
What I mean is, this is never going to be Hellblade.
Right now Shenhua is a mess, but I am rather confident the final model will look close to DOA stuff.
Heck, this is what she looked like in the realtime intro running on a friggin' Dreamcast
surely they can replicate that.
Yea. I agree that DoA5's type of look is what they should be going for, and matches pretty well with the higher detail passport/intro models Shenmue had back then.
I'm definitely less optimistic about them actually reaching them however, because quite frankly that Shenhua already exists as a reference... and yet here we are, with a model that somehow manages to look dramatically worse than the one that appeared at the game's initial reveal. Early or not, there's simply no good reason for the character models to be that far off base in the first place. They didn't create themselves.
Shadow Broker
Banned
Those character models make me feel like I'm going to play a real bona-fide Shemue game. I don't mind the way they look and wouldn't mind if they stayed the same.
Council Pop
Member
This is an excellent post and articulates the sort of stuff I've been thinking (much better than I could myself!)
eso76
Member
Yeah, this is baffling
Photoshopping Ryo's old face on PR material was weird, as is the fact they still can't get the logo right.
I mean, even if they don't have access to the source files themselves, those are simple models, Recreating them should be a very quick and simple job for any artist once you grab reference side and frontal pics of the characters.
This is why i assumed it simply isn't their priority atm: They can't NOT be able to get Shenhua right, unless Suzuki surrounded himself with amateurs and beginners, in which case god help us.
I don't know how development is structured for the game, but Suzuki is probably going "horizontal", they're probably aiming at having everything in place and THEN polish and tighten the graphics.
That pretty much seems to be it so far.
QuantumBro
Banned
Eh, I'll just get the real Shenmue when it comes out next week. I have no faith in fan funded kickstarter projects.