HitokiriNate85
Member
This seems truthful and really telling, yet no one really explained it in this thread. Are people largely unaware of these events? Is the truth of this even debatable?
What happened, exactly?
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The state of Square, and what happened?
- Thread starter HitokiriNate85
- Start date
This seems truthful and really telling, yet no one really explained it in this thread. Are people largely unaware of these events? Is the truth of this even debatable?
What happened, exactly?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Asked the Fortune Teller what area seemed more profitable and the Fortune Teller said to go wherever so they moved the HQ and Uematsu decided to leave because that general area was terrible for him.
Why do people treat Square as if it were a company that still exists? It's been almost 10 years since it merged into Enix, almost 8 years since SE absorbed Taito, and almost 4 years since they absorbed Eidos.
Square Enix is the successor of Enix, not Square. The former Square was liquidated and merged into Enix a long time ago, so there really is no "state of Square" to speak of.
You can talk about how Square Enix handled all the former Square properties, you can talk about how many talents went missing after Square became defunct, but you cannot equivalate Square with Square Enix. In terms of corporate structure, Square Enix has a lot in common with former Enix than former Square.
Also, isn't the founder of Enix chairman of the board of Square Enix? He certainly is the largest shareholder and the de facto owner of the corporation. He probably has more control of the company than say, Yoichi Wada, does.
Square Enix is the successor of Enix, not Square. The former Square was liquidated and merged into Enix a long time ago, so there really is no "state of Square" to speak of.
You can talk about how Square Enix handled all the former Square properties, you can talk about how many talents went missing after Square became defunct, but you cannot equivalate Square with Square Enix. In terms of corporate structure, Square Enix has a lot in common with former Enix than former Square.
Also, isn't the founder of Enix chairman of the board of Square Enix? He certainly is the largest shareholder and the de facto owner of the corporation. He probably has more control of the company than say, Yoichi Wada, does.
Here's a post by Aeana:
That's comedy gold at this point...
I was always under the impression that the merger was more Enix buying Square with putting some Square figurehead at the top for good measure.
the change in corporate culture could account for the problems, after all a buyout is never painless.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I hope so. In the meantime, I'll have Monolithsoft to keep me happy.
Lord Kawazu did his part but at this point they fell pray to the usual trapping of the Wii for 3rd parties.
they had a good base though.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Can't help that their perceived as the de facto leader of a underperforming sub-genre of games in an underperforming market.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
They had Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers and My Life as series.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You are forgetting their biggest game on the Wii.
Dragon Quest X.
It's probably gonna make more money than all of their HD releases combined in the long run. Even if it stays in Japan.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Well weren't we lucky ...
You could have got nothing at all.
:/
I was talking bout Square. Not Enix.
What happened to Square was then chasing a very high end target, and then not having the organizational skills to make sure the people actually finished their product, and once budgets got out of control they had to release something, and that something ended up almost destroying them.
And judging by the looks of where they are headed, i'd say this may well be the last generation of Square games on consoles before they are forced to stay on handhelds/IOS/Gree type stuff.
And judging by the looks of where they are headed, i'd say this may well be the last generation of Square games on consoles before they are forced to stay on handhelds/IOS/Gree type stuff.
DQX is impressive for a Wii title. I was surprised how quickly it turned into a grindfest, though (quicker than FFXI, even).
Well yeah, if that even see the light in the west it'll do some good numbers too.
that's still better than nothing :/
And no dissing Crystal Bearers, considering how they went about it we could have got Toriyama working on it.
Kawazu is a way better writer
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
What came first, the chicken or the egg? jRPGs seemed to be doing pretty well until the console releases slowed to a trickle from SE (and others) and the market forgot that they existed
Sounds correct.
It's really absurd that we are still treating them as separate entities, with the merger happened ten years ago.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
DQX was developed by Square staff working under Armor Project. It's the first internally made DQ.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'm a absurd person.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
LR is the 2nd step?
Pls
LR is the 2nd step?
No.
Hey now. I thoroughly enjoyed the mlaa_ series. While they were flawed and highly unpolished, given enough refinement they would have been quite awesome.Well weren't we lucky ...
I should mention those in the wasted potential thread. Even CC:CB had some nice aspects gleaming through the filth. Oh, what could have been...
People already explained it, but you can hear the words from Uematsu's own mouth in this interview. The full story begins about six minutes in. He spends a minute explaining why he didn't like Shinjuku, and then after that, he talks about the fortune teller.
Yeah, I agree that there's a lot of reading between the lines going on in LevelNth's posts, so it's probably not the whole truth. But those posts raise important points that directly contradict most of the common wisdom surrounding SE these days, particularly concerning the full impact of Spirits Within's failure and Square's viability leading up to the Enix merger.
Weltall Zero
Member
The only blame I place on the merger is that without Enix to serve as competition (or Square to serve as Enix's competition, if you prefer), they have been able to put out absolute garbage. I'm not such a JRPG fan lately so I have no problem living off Atlus (a true knight in shining armor in these dark days) and the multi-yearly Monolith opus, but frequent JRPG consumers have not much choice other than to turn to Square Enix sooner or later.
LR is the 2nd step?
Yes.
FF:CC:CB had one of the best plot in recent years from a game with the FF names, the characters were likable, the VA decent, everything was shaping up greatly but alas the gameplay wasn't as great and some weird decisions put it in a weird place.
There's greatness in that game but you have to earn it....kinda like always with Kawazu...
mlaa was a wildly successful release considering the budget, the platform and everything.
It's not like we were promised much.
Heck Echoes of Time was some weird experiment they managed to turn into a game, and the game wasn't that bad either considering everything (RoF is still way better).
LR is the 2nd step?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
No.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why was that Blood of Bahamut game never brought over?
Tanked at retail?
Funny to see that the life on giants was also experimented at SE before Monolith finished Xenoblade...
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
After finally getting to the end of 13-2...I love Square this gen. I realize I must be the only one, but shrug. Though I do wonder what the overall reaction would have been if they released a 13-2 style of game instead of 13 , and then tried 13's style for 13-2. The only thing that really let me down was I should have been playing 14 on a PS3 years ago. Once that's fixed, I don't really see what the issue is with their output. Quality Dragon Quests, FFs, new IPs, and an amazing handheld library. Except 4 Warriors of Light. Fuck that game.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Hm? Just from the general feel I get here, people enjoyed 13-2 more than 13. It's a close call for me as well. In general though, it's obvious they planned at least a sequel from the early outset because of the long development time of the assets. 13-3 is the big surprise but one I'll happily take as I enjoy the universe.
Considering the HUGE fall in sales between FFXIII and FFXIII-2 (6Mil difference says wiki) I'd say the majority of the people who took on XIII have no interest for more.
We'll how much it'll fall next...fall but I'd say it's safe to say it's a sequel not everyone want to say the least.
I mean even Wada says that XIV damaged the brand but I'd argue that XIII didn't exactly help in that matter either.
I enjoyed 13 in retrospect more since the level of polish and production value was amazing, as a stand alone product it delivered a different experience, as each FF should. 13-2 felt like a rushed unnecessary sequel of them trying to remedy criticisms and appease fans.
What's telling is Square Enix massively overshipped on it and ended up taking a fairly big hit due to retailer price protection as their expectations for the sequel were rather high - the reality was a harsh slap in the face which likely came too late in regards to LRFFXIII.
Good thing the budget for that wasn't that high or they would have broke the bank on that one...
I knew it performed under expectations but to that extent is pretty telling.
Also it shows how much bureaucracy there's in SE, at other more lean dev houses LR would have been cut and work would have begun on something else...
RPG_Fanatic
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Honestly, I think Sakaguchi gets way more credit than he deserves. His post-Squaresoft output has hardly set the world on fire, so suggesting he's been a critical loss to their business isn't really supportable.
The fundamental issue is that the business of making and publishing games has changed drastically since the turn of the millennium. The market is fundamentally different and most importantly a huge divide has opened up between popular tastes in the East and West.
The fundamental issue is that the business of making and publishing games has changed drastically since the turn of the millennium. The market is fundamentally different and most importantly a huge divide has opened up between popular tastes in the East and West.
Still hasn't unpacked my FFXIII-2 Crystal edition, but I'm pretty sure I'll feel the same. Hopefully the soundtrack is going to "salvage" the experience. The few tracks I've listened to on Youtube allow me to place its OST over Nier's already. Nier and its soundtrack were so overrated I would place XIII over them any day of the year. /Rahxephon91
PRjumpman124
Member
You mean like finishing Vers-yeah, I've been itching for more original work from them. Maybe the next gen will give them a chance to work on more IPs... maybe.
His spirit lives on through all of you. He was so alone putting up fights for XIII, RIP
KungFucius
King Snowflake
jRPGs lost popularity because their market grew up. You can't keep playing the same childish "15 year old boy saves the world story" over and over again. And it is the same story over and over again.
FF is usually slightly more mature with 16 year old characters, but the stories are still very derivative and dull overall. If I am going to invest 40 hours into a game, over a period 2 weeks, it better hold my attention. I can't remember any of the more recent FFs stories but I still remember moments from the SNES ones and PSX ones. The production values still suck me in a little, but I have been let down by the repetitiveness of the series.
FF is usually slightly more mature with 16 year old characters, but the stories are still very derivative and dull overall. If I am going to invest 40 hours into a game, over a period 2 weeks, it better hold my attention. I can't remember any of the more recent FFs stories but I still remember moments from the SNES ones and PSX ones. The production values still suck me in a little, but I have been let down by the repetitiveness of the series.
Why Disney movies also please grown-ups then?
GuitarAtomik
Member
It is pretty amazing that there hasn't been a console Kingdom Hearts this entire 7-8 year generation. Not only is it leaving money on the table, but it hurts the brand to an extent. Once Versus went in to limbo they should have just let someone else handle it as opposed to waiting for Nomura.
SE's talent has been migrating to greener pastures.
That would've resulted in a corrupt game in the same vein as FFXII.