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[Mael]

Wada also hated Sakaguchi, and feared he would make a decision that would screw him over like he perceived the FF film did to Suzuki. So he essentially boxed him out, relegated his role in FFXII to almost nothing, and continued with his plan to cancel a bunch of non mainline franchise projects. It left Sakaguchi with no choice but to leave as he was essentially no longer a part of the company. So he did.

Square and Enix merged, and Wada's vision was now super strengthened with DQ on board. What else do we need?! The idiot. Suzuki was relegated further to 'special director' after the merger, then fully resigned two years later. SE was Wada's now, and the rest is history behind the workings of who I believe to be the most incompetent, unprepared and short-sighted company head this industry has ever seen.

So it really IS Wada's fault we're seeing nothing but FF/DQ/KH!
Well SE is essentially fucked then.

Again, not following you here. We're talking about FFXIV sinking the company, or not. And if console games have "more staying power than handheld titles," why are they supposedly going to become a handheld/mobile developer only? It doesn't make any sense.

Diminishing returns.
Considering that they release less and less console games and that the quality is also decreasing, sales will follow the path of their popularity and won't be able to recoup costs.
That's the theory anyway.

 

[Narolf]

they also said before that they wouldn't remake it until it's no longer playable on current systems.
You'll be waiting for a remake for a very long time.

As much as I believe a remake would be a good idea commercially speaking, I don't mind it not happening for reasons related to aesthetics.

Game just gets that goofy at times it would transpire quite bizarre to watch those scenes as part of a remake.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It's "extremely optimistic" to say SQEX won't cease console game development because of FFXIV? There's no scenario where this actually happens in reality.

Not sure what Lord of Vermillion has to do with strengthening your argument, and I mentioned that they make arcade games.


Again, not following you here. We're talking about FFXIV sinking the company, or not. And if console games have "more staying power than handheld titles," why are they supposedly going to become a handheld/mobile developer only? It doesn't make any sense.

It's extremely optimistic because that is what you are. End of discussion.


You mention several subscription based titles and dare not mention one of their most profitable arcade games?

They "may" lean toward more handheld development because as seen iOS is cheap and easy and very profitable.

And do you not remember what Yoshida said if XIV fails?

 

[Shinta]

You mention several subscription based titles and dare not mention one of their most profitable arcade games?

I still don't get it. Doesn't this just prove my point?

 

[Mael]

As much as I believe a remake would be a good idea commercially speaking, I don't mind it not happening for reasons of aesthetics.

Not worse than seeing what they usually do every time a mog appears on screen,
I don't see VII as any more weird than X, then again maybe I blocked that from memory due to the horrendous translation (I believe you're french, you KNOW what I'm talking about).

 

[MagiusNecros]

I still don't get it. Doesn't this just prove my point?

Just broadening your horizons that Lord of Vermilion exists.

 

[Shinta]

Just broadening your horizons that Lord of Vermilion exists.

Fair enough.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that they're going to make console games in the future. XIV 1.0 has been a hugely costly mistake for them, but it's not going to cripple them that extensively to the point that they give up making console games.

This should be good news guys ...

 

[MagiusNecros]

Fair enough.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that they're going to make console games in the future. XIV 1.0 has been a hugely costly mistake for them, but it's not going to cripple them that extensively.

This should be good news guys ...

Oh they will. It just won't be from Square for a majority of the time. Only about 1-3 titles.

The rest will be by Eidos, Enix, or outsourced.

 

[Narolf]

Not worse than seeing what they usually do every time a mog appears on screen,
I don't see VII as any more weird than X, then again maybe I blocked that from memory due to the horrendous translation (I believe you're french, you KNOW what I'm talking about).

Bien français. Referring to this kind of goofiness.

 

[Mael]

Bien français. Referring to this kind of goofiness.

Yeah so you know that the localisation we got makes the thing you posted....totally make sense I mean.
As long as they keep the camera fixed and overhead from far away that part will be glossed over, if not then it'll be cut...as well as the part where you can ship Cloud with 4 different characters...
I think that's the weirdest part myself...

 

[MagiusNecros]

Crossdress Cloud was a Toriyama idea. Yeah.

 

[Mael]

Crossdress Cloud was a Toriyama idea. Yeah.

that explains so much...

 

[anaron]

Crossdress Cloud was a Toriyama idea. Yeah.

Now if his influence in gaming was limited to just that, I'd be totally cool with the guy!

 

[MagiusNecros]

that explains so much...

In fact the whole Honeybee Inn was his thing too.

 

[Mael]

In fact the whole Honeybee Inn was his thing too.

>.< is Akira's influence so big that Squaresoft couldn't ....

As a new employee with no experience making games, Toriyama was assigned to work on Bahamut Lagoon.[2] Toriyama applied for the position of director for the game but following an interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi he was rejected as Sakaguchi felt he didn't know enough about game design to be a director.[3] However, Sakaguchi offered him the position of working on the scenario and event scenes for the game.[2][3] Bahamut Lagoon was to be the first in Square's new SRPG series. However, in September 1995, while the game was still in development, Sakaguchi managed to convince Yasumi Matsuno and a group of other former Quest Corporation staff to join Squre. As a result of this, Sakaguchi decided that Bahamut Lagoon would no longer be a series and instead these former Quest Corporation developers would make the SRPG series because they had more experience with the genre. Bahamut Lagoon was therefore cancelled as a series and the game currently in development was completed earlier than originally scheduled and released in February 1996.[3]

OMG!
He worked on Bahamut Lagoon!
I can't possibly hate him.

e:

PlayStation 2 era

After Racing Lagoon was cancelled as a series, Motomu Toriyama was then offered to join the SaGa team by Akitoshi Kawazu. Toriyama accepted the offer and went on to participate in the early concept and planning of Unlimited SaGa. However, after only a few weeks working on the game, he was approached by Yoshinori Kitase and asked to rejoin the Final Fantasy team and work on Final Fantasy X as the event director

Then he worked on Unlimited Saga?
>.< WTH

 

[MagiusNecros]

>.< is Akira's influence so big that Squaresoft couldn't ....

OMG!
He worked on Bahamut Lagoon!
I can't possibly hate him.

e:


Then he worked on Unlimited Saga?
>.< WTH

Bahamut Lagoon had a terrible story.

Involving factoids that telekinesis with dragons causes cancer.

 

[Mael]

Bahamut Lagoon had a terrible story.

Involving factoids that telekinesis with dragons causes cancer.

In my defense I played it in Japanese, outside of menus and VERY basic stuffs it all went way over my head.
The scenario I made for myself while playing the game was all kind of awesome :lol
Saucer died not because of telekinesis but because he was already ill and trying to rule the world to find a cure from his illness and prepare the world for the incoming invasion of the Dragon God King Alexander.
It's still not very well explained why Palpaleos chose to leave his lover in the ending though...

What did you expect?

 

[MagiusNecros]

In my defense I played it in Japanese, outside of menus and VERY basic stuffs it all went way over my head.
The scenario I made for myself while playing the game was all kind of awesome :lol
Saucer died not because of telekinesis but because he was already ill and trying to rule the world to find a cure from his illness and prepare the world for the incoming invasion of the Dragon God King Alexander.

What did you expect?

I'm referring to the princess that betrayed her own country.

 

[SpokkX]

their games are crap.

final fantasy has turned to shit and the kingdom hearts series was always a joke. The only thing good they have going for them is eidos.

This is pretty much true. Square Enix have developed shitty games internally since the PSX.
Overall they are just not a good developer and has not been for over 10 years.

There are a few notable exceptions mostly made by people no longer at Square (FF12 for example)
All of their good stuff lately has been publishing Level-5 stuff

 

[Mael]

I'm referring to the princess that betrayed her own country.

She have a weak constitution and her captivity took a toll on her.
I tell you the story of Bahamut Lagoon was awesome!

 

[MagiusNecros]

She have a weak constitution and her captivity took a toll on her.
I tell you the story of Bahamut Lagoon was awesome!

Well it wasn't to me.

 

[Mael]

Well it wasn't to me.

I'm not saying it was, I'm saying the one I made up was great
The music and gfx were awesome and I didn't get head or tail of what they were saying so I wasn't going to let that hamper my enjoyment of the game!

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm not saying it was, I'm saying the one I made up was great
The music and gfx were awesome and I didn't get head or tail of what they were saying so I wasn't going to let that hamper my enjoyment of the game!

Then they should hire you as the writer.

 

[Narolf]

Yeah so you know that the localisation we got makes the thing you posted....totally make sense I mean.
As long as they keep the camera fixed and overhead from far away that part will be glossed over, if not then it'll be cut...as well as the part where you can ship Cloud with 4 different characters...
I think that's the weirdest part myself...

Never said otherwise.

 

[Mael]

Then they should hire you as the writer.

Nah, I like Air Gear...but I also love Tactics Ogre though...
I would never have made the mess that is FFXIII or XIII-2 though
Thinking about it there's a reason they let ex Quest people do their thing instead of turning BH in a franchise...
Sakaguchi wasn't a fool

Never said otherwise.

I wouldn't say no to a retranslation of FFVII and FFVIII though...

 

[volpone]

Those posts by LevelNth from the other thread are made of truly fascinating stuff.

Where does this information come from though? Why isn't it better known? Has no one ever bothered to do a good piece on how Wada royally fucked up Squaresoft? This is what completely frustrates me about games journalism. You never hear about the stuff worth knowing.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Those posts by LevelNth from the other thread are made of truly fascinating stuff.

Where does this information come from though? Why isn't it better known? Has no one ever bothered to do a good piece on how Wada royally fucked up Squaresoft? This is what completely frustrates me about games journalism. You never hear about the stuff worth knowing.

You do know that all companies like to keep their dark secrets.

 

[volpone]

You do know that all companies like to keep their dark secrets.

Well no shit. But something always leaks in to the press when there's a good journalist around.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well no shit. But something always leaks in to the press when there's a good journalist around.

Maybe it solely relies on good journalists who know how to get to talk about certain subjects and draw accurate supposed conclusions.

 

[Mael]

Well no shit. But something always leaks in to the press when there's a good journalist around.

The info is believable, it all checks out to the various press release Square Enix put out during that time.
The whole tent pole model for example was widely advertised before this gen came up for example as well as the various cancellations it resulted in.
It's either a very well research fanfic or it's totally what happened.

 

[Narolf]

Do you know about this?

 

[Mael]

Do you know about this?

I limit my browsing for various reasons to a few sites so I'll assume it's a fan translation of FF7?

 

[Cromat]

They're creatively bankrupt. They lost their soul somewhere in the second half of FF12.

 

[Narolf]

I limit my browsing for various reasons to a few sites so I'll assume it's a fan translation of FF7?

Yes, and an excellent one at that. Acro has been on this for years now because he is very busy with school (prépa et école d'ingé) but the final mileage should be eminently reached now.

 

[MagiusNecros]

They're creatively bankrupt. They lost their soul somewhere in the second half of FF12.

They still got Tabata though.

FF Type Otome forever.

 

[Polishin8r]

Breaking news
No good games=no sales

 

[Cheerilee]

Came to post the LevelNth posts. See that already happened.

Many people talk about bad management or key people leaving, but I think those problems are common in game companies, and oftentimes not the main reason in why a company goes down.

Especially in the case of Square, the key people who have left, none of them has been able to create hits outside of Square, and this brings into question how much the success of the past can be attributed to those "key" people. In fact, it can be argued that Square should get rid of more of those "key" people to bring new life into their now stale portfolio.

Sakaguchi may not be able to make a great game, and he may not be able to run a great company, but that doesn't mean he wasn't the perfect guy to stand between businessmen like Suzuki/Wada and the talented artists at Square, absorbing what needs to be absorbed and passing on what needs to be passed on.

As soon as he stepped out of that role, Wada gave Yasumi Matsuno eye cancer a mental breakdown, and drove one of the greatest game creators in the world away from Square and into semi-retirement.

 

[Jarnet87]

by 2015 they'll be portable and IoS games only. Squaresoft died a long time ago, let us cherish them for all they did prior to the PS2.

 

[Mael]

Yes, and an excellent one at that. Acro has been on this for years now because he is very busy with school (prépa et école d'ingé) but the final mileage should be eminently reached now.

That's some amazing work he did then!
Can't possibly be worse than the horrible mess we ended up with, I kid not when I say it's the single most awful translation I've ever seen.

Came to post the LevelNth posts. See that already happened.

Sakaguchi may not be able to make a great game, and he may not be able to run a great company, but that doesn't mean he wasn't the perfect guy to stand between businessmen like Suzuki/Wada and the talented artists at Square, absorbing what needs to be absorbed and passing on what needs to be passed on.

As soon as he stepped out of that role, Wada gave Yasumi Matsuno eye cancer a mental breakdown, and drove one of the greatest game creators in the world away from Square and into semi-retirement.

Sometimes the sum is greater than the parts added.
Seriously how could they make Matsuno leave and Kawazu not work on anything?
Kawazu especially!

 

[outunderthestars]

For me I stopped buying their games because they felt the need to continue making battle systems more and more complex while making the characters, worlds, and plots less appealing. They simply stopped being "fun" for me.

 

[MagiusNecros]

by 2015 they'll be portable and IoS games only. Squaresoft died a long time ago, let us cherish them for all they did prior to the PS2.

A possibility

 

[Sou]

Sakaguchi may not be able to make a great game, and he may not be able to run a great company, but that doesn't mean he wasn't the perfect guy to stand between businessmen like Suzuki/Wada and the talented artists at Square, absorbing what needs to be absorbed and passing on what needs to be passed on.

This may be true, but given that he has gone, what should be done now is to inject new blood into the ranks to find a new "Sakaguchi."

It is common in the west to demote producers/directors when their games do not perform as expected. Given the under-performance of the XIII sequels, it makes no sense they are letting the same group of guys to continue driving the series into the ground.

 

[MagiusNecros]

This may be true, but given that he has gone, what should be done now is to inject new blood into the ranks to find a new "Sakaguchi."

It is common in the west to demote producers/directors when their games do not perform as expected. Given the under-performance of the XIII sequels, it makes no sense they are letting the same group of guys to continue driving the series into the ground.

Tabata would be a start but they don't want to give him a chance and Ito is coffee maker and printer operator guy.

 

[Mael]

This may be true, but given that he has gone, what should be done now is to inject new blood into the ranks to find a new "Sakaguchi."

It is common in the west to demote producers/directors when their games do not perform as expected. Given the under-performance of the XIII sequels, it makes no sense they are letting the same group of guys to continue driving the series into the ground.

In the west the people responsible for XIII and XIII-2 would be fired not merely demoted

Tabata would be a start but they don't want to give him a chance and Ito is coffee maker and printer operator guy.

Nah, they're all in the same room with Kawazu playing Wow or Idol Master while the others are left to their own devices

 

[MagiusNecros]

Nah, they're all in the same room with Kawazu playing Wow or Idol Master while the others are left to their own devices

Nah they are playing Type-1 and talking about how awesome it is.

 

[Narolf]

For me I stopped buying their games because they felt the need to continue making battle systems more and more complex while making the characters, worlds, and plots less appealing. They simply stopped being "fun" for me.

Would you say that about XIII and XIII-2? Seems like the very opposite to me.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Bad management.
Game quality took a huge plummet.
More focused on doing ports of Final Fantasy.
What is new? Nothing because of delays. Long ass delays.
A definite disconnect between SE and the fans.

 

[Cheerilee]

This may be true, but given that he has gone, what should be done now is to inject new blood into the ranks to find a new "Sakaguchi."

It is common in the west to demote producers/directors when their games do not perform as expected. Given the under-performance of the XIII sequels, it makes no sense they are letting the same group of guys to continue driving the series into the ground.

Wada apparently tries to directly control producers/directors.

Square's producers/directors are, by most accounts, legendary. But they've stunk since Wada started messing with them.


It makes no sense to throw out legendary creators and hope that new legendary creators appear, ones who are naturally geared to shine while working under a personality like Wada. It would be more efficient to get rid of Wada, and find another leader who knows how and when to step back and let his people do their jobs.

It was suggested earlier in this thread that SquareEnix does make good games, but they're all on handhelds. They're unimportant. They fly under Wada's radar. And somehow that makes them good. It suggests that Wada is the problem, not the rest of SquareEnix.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I still remember Wada and the Fortune Teller stuff. Yeah.

 

[Mael]

I still remember Wada and the Fortune Teller stuff. Yeah.

What was that?
I also remember Wada going to advertise his game MindJack in one of our cable network (NoLife) just before the show started ripping the game a new one...