-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Jon Tron Show - Reviews, Lists, Madness
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Eh....
While the joke being mentioned in particular is.. well a joke. There was this one game grumps incident, where the interity of his bit was the shock value of saying The N word. Which I kinda find racist actually.
Do you think using that word is racist if there's no hateful intent behind it? If it's just used in a silly way, I.E. imitating rap culture? I tend to be of the opinion that if you use it in silly fashion, around people who know you're not racist, and there's no mean or hateful intent behind it... then it's just a harmless word. Maybe Jontron assumed everyone knew he meant no harm and there was no hate? Not a chance he should take with an audience as large as his, but still...
YES. I believe that slur that applied to me being used not even intelligent humor, but as cheap shock value is disrespectful and racist. And whats worse is the mag fast con after it , you got dudes standing up and coping him for the fuck of it. Yes , i believe its racist.
The entire joke was " hey i'm saying the n word"! why even ?
I see... Well, when I think of something being "racist," I think of it in terms of the person's intent. I know plenty of non-racist people who have used the word jokingly before. People who are incredibly kindhearted, loving and non-judgmental. They would never think less of someone for their lifestyle, so long as it's not hurting anyone, and they would certainly never think less of someone for something as superficial as skin color. So, I don't think they're suddenly racists just because they used the word in a silly way, not directed at or demeaning anyone.
One of the first things i learned in life.
You can have all the good intentions in the world, they don't matter for shit when whatever happens, happens.
hmmmmmmmmmm..
I dunno its kinda hurting me that someone thinks that slur that is still a very touchy subject for a jack shit ton for my people. Is funny for shock value.
Also racism, isn't just the horrible direct racism, you are using for your criteria. Racism comes in many forms, like someone i dunno thinking that slur that is applicable to whatever you are is a synonym for bad, or bad person, or is funny for shock value with disregard of context.
But no its ok , because didn't really mean [insert slur] so its fine they keep sling it around right? They cant be held accountable for basic social awareness.
That's simply not true. "What happens" is not contingent purely on the one who intends, but on how others react to him or her. And sometimes, people misread each other. There is such a thing as a misunderstanding, which I think is the case with Jontron.
Yes, the people to whom I refer ARE kindhearted. They would never think less of you no matter who you are. Everyone is equal in their eyes, and mine.
I detest racism. And you know what I'm saying, Village. :-\
Uh Jon tron used the N word as shock value humor, no joke before hand, just the n word. That argument goes out the window, there is no miss understanding, if someone reacts negatively they are in the right.
Okay.....
No I dont really, your whole argument is
" its ok he said it because he is jon tron and he might have not meant it" I doesn't if he meant it or not, that isn't a thing to do. You can mean not to hit a person with your car, but if you did it you did it.
As I said before intent doesn't mean shit. Epically with slurs.
I respect your viewpoint, and of course, you can react to a word however you like. That applies to other words, too. Some people don't like the way people use the word "fucking" to amplify everything they say, and they could take it literally and assume every instance of the word is a pornographic statement suggesting sexual intercourse. It's their right to do that, as well.
But using the word does not mean he's racist, or has a problem with blacks, or that he thinks a single negative thing about blacks. I think that's an unfair leap to make. Some people just think the word sounds funny -- in large part, ironically, because of rap culture where many colorful personalities use it every other word and come off comical doing so. They've softened the impact of the word.
...and maybe that's for the best. I think we only prolong racism and worsen racism when we make certain words taboo, because if we make words taboo, people think in terms of "oh, I can't use this word because those other people don't like it," and that just promotes other-ism. Whereas if it was treated like the joke it is -- the sheer absurdity it is, this whole notion that people ever thought each other different and hated each other for it -- it would perhaps take the piss out of racism. And racism, in turn... would cease to be. Or at least be a step closer to it.
As it stands, we're just segregating words without respect to meaning, and deepening divides by creating the illusion we're different peoples instead of one people.
That isn't remotely the same. AT all, and wont. EVER. Fucking doesn't have the connotation of racism that continues to oppress people to this day . That comparison is disrespectful a shit.
Just because black rappers say the word does not mean you can say the word. You are not Kanye west no matter how hard you try. A long with that, uh using a slur for shock value humor would fall in the racist category.
.
My original response was going to be furious and angry, a lot of curse words insults. And saying how your logic is the same as the racism defense force on the OT side. But to avoid extra typing and to avoid a possible ban because colorful language. I will make this short
THAT IS NOT HOW RACISM WORKS, AND YOU ARGUING THAT ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY IT TO " TAKE THE PISS OUT OF IT" IS ALREADY DISRESPECT ON ITS OWN. BECAUSE YOU ALREADY CANNOT RESPECTS ONES REQUEST TO NOT SAY IT.
Technically you can say anything you want, don't expect people to be ok with it. Especially when its slurs
Also, just because rappers say something, does not make it ok for you to say. We are adults.
I have nothing but respect for you, Village. I'm a bit nervous and alarmed by this angry reaction, because I am NOT racist and I am the farthest thing from racist. I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Let's just forget this, OK? I think something is being lost in translation that would be better conveyed in person with facial expressions, body language and tone of voice. Maybe I'm not articulating myself right. :-\
Also, for the record, -I- didn't use the word in question here. I was just explaining how I interpret people when they use it.
Also, for the record, -I- didn't use the word in question here. I was just explaining how I interpret people when they use it.
poopninjamvc3mk
I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
Lol the nword is considered offensive again? That's news to me. Anyways why is there even a debate about the nword in this thread anyways of all places?
Did Jon say the nword in the new video? I didn't notice it or are you guys going off old stuff.
Did Jon say the nword in the new video? I didn't notice it or are you guys going off old stuff.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Jon Tron Show |OT| Reviews, Lists, Madness, Racism
Jontron apparently yelled out the word randomly in one of his videos (Game Grumps, which I don't watch -- I stick to The Jontron Show). I was saying I was OK with that random humor (the way it was described to me) because I don't think there's any hateful intent to the word when he's just being silly. This then led to a debate over whether the word is intrinsically bad or only as bad as our culture continues to make it.
I assume the bolded is the sarcasm.
Anyways the other peeps were arguing about jontron being racist, and someone said no he isn't. Then I brought the instance he cramer'ed back in his game grump days.
I don't think so no, that i pewdiepie's job.
I never said you were racist.
I am upset you are defending jontron in this juncture.
I never said you did. Just throwing out words of warning.
Misuse of the word - or any racially derogative word - does not automatically make you a racist. It is the intent of the user that matters. Michael Richardson was using the word in a mean spirited, entirely racist way. The two situations are not really comparable.
No it isn't .
Intent really doesn't mean anything... ever. Also using a slur as just shock value humor is pretty mean spirited actually. Which what jontron.
But no no , please tell me how its totally ok , because its some person on the internet you like.
Village, you seemed to liken me to a "racism defense force," a comment I found very hurtful. :-\
I don't defend racism. But I think I might be defining racism differently. Racism, to me, is when one person sees someone else as inferior because of their race. Racist actions are when someone does or says something with the desire to diminish a person because of their race. That's why the intent is crucial.
Some people think it's absolutely absurd one group of people ever hated another over something as trivial as their skin color. They find that whole ugly chapter of human history to be as backwards as people in medieval times trying to cure headaches by drilling holes in their skulls to let out evil spirits. To them, it's preposterous someone would ever be racist. And so they find "racist" words equally preposterous -- because to them, there's no way someone could be lesser by being black.
And so they treat the word as the stupid shit it is. Again, intention. I know you say intention doesn't count, but I think everyone will find themselves in a situation at one point or another where the right intentions backfire because of people reading their actions the wrong way. I really think that's the case with Jontron.
I don't defend racism. But I think I might be defining racism differently. Racism, to me, is when one person sees someone else as inferior because of their race. Racist actions are when someone does or says something with the desire to diminish a person because of their race. That's why the intent is crucial.
Some people think it's absolutely absurd one group of people ever hated another over something as trivial as their skin color. They find that whole ugly chapter of human history to be as backwards as people in medieval times trying to cure headaches by drilling holes in their skulls to let out evil spirits. To them, it's preposterous someone would ever be racist. And so they find "racist" words equally preposterous -- because to them, there's no way someone could be lesser by being black.
And so they treat the word as the stupid shit it is. Again, intention. I know you say intention doesn't count, but I think everyone will find themselves in a situation at one point or another where the right intentions backfire because of people reading their actions the wrong way. I really think that's the case with Jontron.
Wow, this is probably the silliest thing I've read so far this year.
Intent is important to consider. Context too. You need to stop with your crusade.
It doesn't matter what you intend to do, ever, it only matters what you have done.
What do you mean crucade,
You mean me not being ok Jontron used that slur that applied to me as a shock value you joke.
No but please go ahead tell me how I should be ok with it.
Go nuts, I am ready hear your explanation.
Murder vs manslaughter
One example of how intentions matter
You can feel whatever you like, I don't care
Just don't preach, especially when your arguments are flawed
Also, your constant request for people to explain themselves is annoying
Intent is everything. Believe it or not, you can actually be horribly racist without using a slur.
Mean spirited? No. Dumb, tasteless, out of place? Absolutely.
Notice nowhere did I say it was "ok" or acceptable. It's something that shows poor judgement. Surely you must see the irony in empowering the word so much? I mean, what do you say to black comedians that largely build entire routines around the word and use it to poke fun at black culture? Are they racist or mean spirited?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
"4:48 -- you just made it, motherfucker," XD
Please, tell me more about how you're offended by a person of Persian descent saying n*****. Why, Persia's history of persecution and bigotry towards African Americans is of course well documented.....
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Do you consider Louis C.K. racist?
yes yes you can. You can also be racist while using a slur.
I would say all of those things actually.
They are bad comedians , think what you want of the boondocks and dave chappelle but their comedy goes deeper than just N words and " hey black people".
Take for example the chris rock video posted , the joke was more than just black people and the n word. The joke was that the only situation where its ok, for white person to say that is so unrealistic that they might as well not say it , anyway. That is the mark of a good comedian . They don't just rely on the shock value of whatever they are, there actual well thought out jokes.
So you ignoring the explanation then?
Quite ok, its situation where if you had one, it would be bad .
I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings, but dude.. it was kinda point for point.
Racism, epically in this day and age is a bit more complicated than that my friend.
History be cray .
I don't jontron is bad people, I do however think he is a bit ignorant. The statement " he is kind of racist" isn't not a permanent mark. You can become less racist, maybe he has, its just that in that point in time , that was pretty racist.
Nigger is racist period. No ifs, ands, or buts. And I love how people who it isn't a degrading epithet for think they know better than the people it is targeted at on this subject.
The most interesting aspect of Jon coming back with Normal Boots is that the Content ID changes are starting to have an effect. In his Magfest panel, he said that most of his videos were unaffected with the change, but this move over says otherwise. The inclusion of Continue Show, DYKG, and the rest, is that they see what will happen to them in the future, or they're already being affected by it. I remember his Jurassic Park 2 review having to be moved off YouTube because of similar issues.
This feels like a natural response from the exodus of YouTube. Make the new stuff website exclusive, then put it on their channels, with most likely no ads as not to get flagged. I hope it turns out well for him. It looks like he found his footing again post-Grumps.
This feels like a natural response from the exodus of YouTube. Make the new stuff website exclusive, then put it on their channels, with most likely no ads as not to get flagged. I hope it turns out well for him. It looks like he found his footing again post-Grumps.
Actually I do not know exactly where I stand. Lewis CK's bits about the n word weren't for shock value , they were well thought out jokes.
however I do not agree with the premise of what he is saying.
So I do not know where i stand really. But on a basic level i do understand that he seems to be an intelligent human being and at least his jokes are more than " hey look at me i said a slur hurr durr " And I can respect him for that
The same way someone of jewish decent, lets take for example my cousins and my aunt. Would be offended if I called them the K world.
Oh wait, you don't have to be white to be racist.
Holy shit revalations errwhere.
I don't think anyone is saying they "know better," I think we just have different people providing different interpretations of this word and its usage and whether the implications of it vary with the way it's used.
We might not all see things the same way as Village, but let him say what he feels. He's entitled to his opinion. We all are. It's fine -- just peaceful discussion.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
ZeroGravity
Member
I'd hate to live in the black and white world that Village seems to be stuck in.
Has he tried sacrificing a human (with the purity of a virgin) to an ancient, powerful deity from space? I hear that's popular with the kids these days.
(By the way, the other videos that are featured from the Normal Boots crew, such as The Completionist & ProJared, are worth checking out.)
Or how about this comment by Morgan Freeman?
I think it speaks to what I'm saying -- that having to tip-toe around certain words, etc, just deepens some misplaced notion that we're "different."
Eh... I dunno . The joke is more complicated than what is being let on, and that should be praised Lewis CK is a good comedian. The premise of the joke is that the person who had created the term felt that that was an apt description and the ridiculousness of racism just being a feeling some white dude had at one point. Its thought out joke, and I don't know how exactly i feel about it.
The joke its being compared to however jontron just saying the n word because... thats humor apparently is an entirely less thought out situation and bad joke.
Im not too keen on the slur defense force sorry. Sprising I know.
I have a stance and believe in that stance.
hmm? Could you be elaborate, I can't understand passive aggression.
Really. If you think that situation is okay, then you recognize race has little to do with it, and it becomes about the intent of using the word. Just as JonTron was probably pandering to the crowd that thinks that shock value crap is funny, comedians (black and white) can use it to poke fun of our culture.
Village seems to agree with this:
This doesn't fly if you think the word is somehow inherently racist. I really don't. Put me in the camp that says people give words meaning, and it matters how it is used. You can be a horribly bitter, racist person and express that without using a single slur. I don't think people who use it jokingly with each other are racist anymore than I think JonTron is a racist.
Which leads to an important reminder:
Or contrast it with this bit by Chris Rock.
Humour is subjective
So is one's interpretation of another's use of the word 'nigger'
Why not just leave it at that and actually talk about JonTron?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I don't know, I feel like you're reading too much into it and it's just shock humor. But that's just me.
I don't really want to take sides in this debate, but I personally find absurdist uses of slurs funny, even when applied to me (and I'm Jewish, so I'm no stranger to persecution and prejudice).
I think it's more about "know your audience" and saying said word does not necessarily make you a racist depending on the context.
We talking about jontron. And a thing he said.
Eh don't put me in there a 100% , like I said I do not know how I feel about Lewis CK saying whatever . I just appreciate the guy put actual effort into it.
I kind of think the word has racist implications, yes .
And you posted the bit I alluded to earlier, I do not agree with what Lewis CK is saying at all, I am just applicative the dudes humor is layered is all.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Eh, didn't really find this episode to be that funny. That PS2 game though... sheesh!