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Path of Exile Beta Thread: There Is No Sanctuary in Wraeclast

JWong

Banned
So can anyone provide reasons where this game bests Diablo 3? I'm not saying D3 was great by any means just looking for honest responses as I haven't yet played this game. I get the darker artstyle ala d2 but what else? Also the skill tree looks WAY more configurable...what else?

Well, you covered the "Has Character Building" part while adding the fact that character progression is even more prevalent with Skill Gem progression, Item upgrades, Crafting upgrades. Your character will be your character. The crux of an RPG, unlike D3.

As a loot game, it is an Item-Based Economy meaning no gold. What this means is that every item in the game is useful, so even if you get trash, you can turn that trash into item currencies that other player's might want. Also, crafting makes every equipment viable. You can use transmute currencies to craft the ultimate weapon from a trashy white item.

As a dungeon crawler, maps are truly randomized as opposed to large pieces of map slapped together like in D3.

I personally like the combat better because it is Spam Skills rather than D3's wait for cooldowns before engaging Champions. It is a Hack and Slash action genre, not a Wait-For-Cooldowns genre.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot. Ladders. The feature that makes these games competitive. D3 doesn't have one.
 

Vodh

Junior Member
I personally like the combat better because it is Spam Skills rather than D3's wait for cooldowns before engaging Champions. It is a Hack and Slash action genre, not a Wait-For-Cooldowns genre.

Here I have to disagree. The only part where you actually had to wait for cooldowns in D3 was low-eq Inferno pre-nerf. In terms of spamming skills, what i've experienced or seen on videos so far from PoE is much slower than D3.

So you can actually customize the way your character looks like hair, skin etc unlike D3? EDIT: oh yeah it does have arenas at launch too right? lol

Nope. You don't even get to pick the gender of your character - gender-wise it's predetermined by your class choice. Dyes are supposedly going to be added to the microtransactions shop some time soon. In terms of visual appearance, there's however one advantage PoE has over D3 - with the build and itemization diversity, the end-game builds are going to rely on much more diverse choice of items, thus, your character won't end up with Vile Wards, Mempo and a few other mandatory items even when you finally get whatever you had in mind for him.

Edit: On top of everything else, it's free. Just give it a try. I was a skeptic for a long, long time, but when I finally tried it, it's a charming game and it has a way of growing on you the more you play - don't expect to experience the second coming of Christ the second you start the game, give it a few hours and then decide if you like the way it's going.
 

Im_Special

Member
So you can actually customize the way your character looks like hair, skin etc unlike D3? EDIT: oh yeah it does have arenas at launch too right? lol

Nope even Diablo 3's character customization blows PoE's character customization out of the water and that's saying something about PoE's, I'm talking about looks, not build diversity.

Also anyone else worried this game is going to turn into a hackers dream/hackers nightmare sooner then later, I just can't shake this feeling it's going to get hit hard on that front. What with it being free2play there's little risk because it'll just costs an email account per ban, there is already working maphacks unfortunately. I'd hate if botting/duping/other ran rampant and ruined the economy and cutthroat leagues for everyone because this has been shaping up nicely and is finally the Diablo 2 sequel I've been waiting for.

I know Chris has said they have a system in place for cheaters, but I'm sure every game ever probably has a "system in place" for cheaters, GW2 was especially bad with botting and so was Daiblo 3, these were 60 dollar game also and it definitely had effects on the economy for the legit others. I'm just not sure a small team of 20~ can deal with those 5 million Chinese farmers.

Oh god I'm now having spam flashbacks from every MMO I've played in the past and the thought from this sends shivers down my spin.
 

JWong

Banned
Here I have to disagree. The only part where you actually had to wait for cooldowns in D3 was low-eq Inferno pre-nerf. In terms of spamming skills, what i've experienced or seen on videos so far from PoE is much slower than D3.

Oh yeah everyone likes to whirlwind barb (before it got nerfed) or some other broken build (crit mass) because D3 is the most unbalanced game.

PoE starts out slow, but when built right, you're killing shit like this.
 
I've been stuck working with support trying to get a password reset email to go through all day.

I do a search of my emails, sort only the PoE relevant ones, discover that I received a beta invite in November 2011 and missed it.



Yes, I discovered this 2 days before open beta.




This is probably one of the stupidest game related things I've ever done.
 

suffah

Does maths and stuff
Anyone have a spare key? I promise to buy a pre-order package before open beta starts if I enjoy the game!
 

KePoW

Banned
Also anyone else worried this game is going to turn into a hackers dream/hackers nightmare sooner then later, I just can't shake this feeling it's going to get hit hard on that front. What with it being free2play there's little risk because it'll just costs an email account per ban, there is already working maphacks unfortunately. I'd hate if botting/duping/other ran rampant and ruined the economy and cutthroat leagues for everyone because this has been shaping up nicely and is finally the Diablo 2 sequel I've been waiting for.

I know Chris has said they have a system in place for cheaters, but I'm sure every game ever probably has a "system in place" for cheaters, GW2 was especially bad with botting and so was Daiblo 3, these were 60 dollar game also and it definitely had effects on the economy for the legit others. I'm just not sure a small team of 20~ can deal with those 5 million Chinese farmers.

PoE won't be able to stop hacks, I guarantee that.
 

Vodh

Junior Member
PoE starts out slow, but when built right, you're killing shit like this.

Apart from the 'heyyy, there's lots and lots of lightnings around!' it still looks slower than the gameplay I'm used to from just pretty much any build in Diablo, but it does look promising, thanks for the link. And yeah, it's nowhere near what ww barbs or cm wizards can do, but those can be ignored as outliers. Hope there's more than a few builds in PoE that can let you kick ass like that.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Character customization and loot is the common thought. It also eliminates free and immediate respeccing so build planning actually becomes a thing. And no RMAH.

Some kind of ladder, pvp, does it have like up to 6 player games too?

Here I have to disagree. The only part where you actually had to wait for cooldowns in D3 was low-eq Inferno pre-nerf. In terms of spamming skills, what i've experienced or seen on videos so far from PoE is much slower than D3.

I was cursed with liking pet classes in games. WD was my main in D3 and it's full of waiting. Horror, Spirit walk, summons, zombie wall, confuse, Fetish army (sad face here), slam dance, etc. They edited some of our MP abilities to make the signature like abilities cost less, and a new vision quest but I would have loved to be able to use things like fetish army a bit more.

My latest WD build allowed me to chip away at my recast times by one second per kill but it still wasn't worth picking some crazy recast time abilities. I kept mass confuse for elites because of the Paranoia rune (+20% damage to everything in range).
 

Vodh

Junior Member
I was cursed with liking pet classes in games. WD was my main in D3 and it's full of waiting. Horror, Spirit walk, summons, zombie wall, confuse, Fetish army (sad face here), slam dance, etc. They edited some of our MP abilities to make the signature like abilities cost less, and a new vision quest but I would have loved to be able to use things like fetish army a bit more.

My latest WD build allowed me to chip away at my recast times by one second per kill but it still wasn't worth picking some crazy recast time abilities. I kept mass confuse for elites because of the Paranoia rune (+20% damage to everything in range).

I'm not saying there are no cooldowns in D3. What I'm saying is, the time you spend 'waiting' on them, what you're doing is spamming stuff like ghost bombs and acid rain, and it's pretty damn awesome.

Also, about the high cooldown skills (60s +) yeah, I wouldn't mind if the cooldowns on those were shortened to be honest, but there definitely has to be a price on some of the 'holy shit that is awesome!' abilities. And one of the big successes of Diablo 3 is the fact that even using those 'core', most spammable, no cooldown, little to no cost abilities feels great.
 

injurai

Banned
I'm not saying there are no cooldowns in D3. What I'm saying is, the time you spend 'waiting' on them, what you're doing is spamming stuff like ghost bombs and acid rain, and it's pretty damn awesome.

Also, about the high cooldown skills (60s +) yeah, I wouldn't mind if the cooldowns on those were shortened to be honest, but there definitely has to be a price on some of the 'holy shit that is awesome!' abilities. And one of the big successes of Diablo 3 is the fact that even using those 'core', most spammable, no cooldown, little to no cost abilities feels great.

Cool downs in D3 where the worst thing ever... all those unique mana pools and shit where so gimmicky, I better stop talking about them before I get sick...
 
I played a Barb in D3 and was fine with the CDs overall. They added a nice level of strategy to combat, as you had to determine when was the best time to use certain spells/attacks. It's perhaps the one WoW-esque addition that I actually liked about D3. The combat, controls, etc are all great imo, and what separates it from PoE and other clunkier dungeon crawlers.

The WoW-esque addition I didn't like, and perhaps the one that ruins so much of the game's longevity to me, was the focus on gear over stats/customization. I love the fact that you can create whatever you want in PoE. If you want to make a tanky, life sapping Marauder (ie my plan) you can. However you can also turn your Marauder into a bow wielding badass and any host of other things that aren't possible in D3, with pretty much gives you a handful of pathways.

If you paired PoE's customization (including the maps) with D3's UI, tight controls, animations, and click detection it would be the greatest thing ever.
 

Vodh

Junior Member
Well, anyways, Path of Exileeee~!

Who's gonna make a better 2h sword character, Duelist or Shadow? (I don't like Marauder particularly tbh)
 

injurai

Banned
I played a Barb in D3 and was fine with the CDs overall. They added a nice level of strategy to combat, as you had to determine when was the best time to use certain spells/attacks. It's perhaps the one WoW-esque addition that I actually liked about D3. The combat, controls, etc are all great imo, and what separates it from PoE and other clunkier dungeon crawlers.

The WoW-esque addition I didn't like, and perhaps the one that ruins so much of the game's longevity to me, was the focus on gear over stats/customization. I love the fact that you can create whatever you want in PoE. If you want to make a tanky, life sapping Marauder (ie my plan) you can. However you can also turn your Marauder into a bow wielding badass and any host of other things that aren't possible in D3, with pretty much gives you a handful of pathways.

If you paired PoE's customization (including the maps) with D3's UI, tight controls, animations, and click detection it would be the greatest thing ever.

Yeah as the Wizard... I hated cooldowns... let me just spam my shit considering my mana pool his this piss shallow arcane energy pool. But barb was pretty fun.
 
Cool downs in D3 where the worst thing ever... all those unique mana pools and shit where so gimmicky, I better stop talking about them before I get sick...

I kind of liked having unique resources for each class, though I don't think it was necessarily executed the best in D3. Demon Hunter ended up being pretty atrocious. If designed well, they can definitely add to the flow and flavor of combat. Just going with mana for everyone works though.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
On WD especially before the mana cost tweak for the first 4 abilities page, I could run out of mana using just them (dart doctor days with increased attack speed). Without mana we have to run around waiting. Pets pretty much are there to kinda distract other mobs but they ignore them for certain abilities that only go for a actual player (May have been patched). With normal attacks not being a option waiting is/was common for witch doctor, which is why Vision Questing was so popular. It gave WD's damage, and they could control the wait factor by using the cool downs in their favor. Throwing away those abilities for the chance at faster mana recharging.
 

injurai

Banned
I kind of liked having unique resources for each class, though I don't think it was necessarily executed the best in D3. Demon Hunter ended up being pretty atrocious. If designed well, they can definitely add to the flow and flavor of combat. Just going with mana for everyone works though.

ya DH and Monk where both awful. The others where fine, though I would have liked less cool downs on wizard...

Really like the witch though In PoE, I feel they have a lot of flexibility to expand the classes, skills, passive tree, and just the world and game in general.

Blizzard got too constrained with story where as before they could just try anything that seemed like fun or good game design. I hope GrindingGears doesn't hold anything overtly sacred which was blizzards big mistake.
 

S3NT1NEL

Neo Member
ya DH and Monk where both awful. The others where fine, though I would have liked less cool downs on wizard...

Really like the witch though In PoE, I feel they have a lot of flexibility to expand the classes, skills, passive tree, and just the world and game in general.

Blizzard got too constrained with story where as before they could just try anything that seemed like fun or good game design. I hope GrindingGears doesn't hold anything overtly sacred which was blizzards big mistake.

I actually really liked the Monk. Heavily underrated class imo. Things can get really interesting once you use multiple different spirit generators. I'll admit that their spirit spenders are completely UP though.

Didn't like the DH much either.

I'm hype for PoE. I bought the pre-order, but waiting for the real game to start and the flood.
 

Kalnos

Banned
It feels ok, my only negative about it is you can't move and cast skills at the same time. Some will probably tell you its a positive.

I don't think you can in any game in this genre unless it's the spell that moves you (i.e. Barb whirlwind).
 
What's the consensus on a good starting class for OB? I want to build something that will be able to farm enough gear to start (not endgame) my other new characters.

In D2, I used to use a Sorc or Necro for this due to them being good without great gear.

I was thinking cold witch as that seems pretty no brainer (clarity, freezing pulse, LMP) to get through normal and into NM (or whatever the second difficulty is called). But any other suggestions?
 
What's the consensus on a good starting class for OB? I want to build something that will be able to farm enough gear to start (not endgame) my other new characters.

In D2, I used to use a Sorc or Necro for this due to them being good without great gear.

I was thinking cold witch as that seems pretty no brainer (clarity, freezing pulse, LMP) to get through normal and into NM (or whatever the second difficulty is called). But any other suggestions?

2 handed ground slam is easy too.
 

Burt

Member
Well, anyways, Path of Exileeee~!

Who's gonna make a better 2h sword character, Duelist or Shadow? (I don't like Marauder particularly tbh)

Duelist. You'll have to move up towards the Marauder section of the tree to get 2h damage masteries. Shadow doesn't have any 2h melee nodes, so you might be able to make it work with a skillgrimage to another corner of the tree, but until then you'll probably be hurting a bit damage wise.

Edit: Looking at the skill tree, there really doesn't seem to be any reason to start as a shadow and go 2h, unless you were going a Chaos Inoculation/Ghost Reaver build and planned on being fairly spell/intelligence heavy.
 

Burt

Member

It looks good, and it's definitely efficient, although if he's going dagger and shield I probably would've gone south and eaten 2 +10 dexterity nodes to get the bigger shield cluster near the Frenzy charge. And since he already has Arcing Blows for an easy +30% lightning damage, it probably wouldn't hurt to grab the +20 % lightning damage right near the Shadow starting point, although it really depends on what skills he's planning to use. Everyone always grabs Arcing Blows regardless just cause it's good and right there. Also, he should grab Fitness near the start for +10% life and 20 strength instead of blowing that last point on the +8% life at the tail end of his Energy Shield path. Still a good build, just some little stuff like that.
 
Melee builds seems pretty underpowered in PoE though. Freezing Pulse gives you a nice range advantage from level 1. What are your thoughts?

The first difficulty is easy if you have played before. YOu just have to know when to equip the right resists and you can face roll anything. Freezing Pulse is only good up close later in the game. You need lesser multiple projectiles and faster projectiles to make it good. You won't get those as a witch, so a shadow would be a better fit. Trading for stuff on the 1st day or 2 will probably be bad.

Melee is only "bad" late game because stuff kills you so fast. Ground slam has decent range.
 

Justin

Member
How are summon builds in this game? Can you get some cool minions? Does it work well late game?

My summoner is level 45 and just started the third difficulty. Summoner was really fun for me but scary due to how little life you have. There are three main summon skills.

Summon Zombies raises a Zombie from the corpse of killed enemy. The skill starts with the ability to summon 3 zombies and with all the passives you can summon 8.

Summon Skeletons summons two skeletons where ever you need without the need for a corpse. The downside is that they dont follow you, they just kind of stumble around till they run into something to attack. Combining summon skeletons with spell totem makes a totem that constantly spawns skeletons and is a must have. After getting all the passives you can summon up to 12 skeletons.

Summon Specters summons a specter from the corpse of a dead enemy that retains that enemies skills.

This is the standard opening summoner build.
 

JWong

Banned
Hey guys, just a tip when building characters using the Passive Skill Calc.

Make builds in steps of difficulty. You want to make sure you get all the necessary balance of offence and defence for the next difficulty. This is to ensure that you do not become a glass cannon and get stuck grinding to compensate poor build planning.

I usually plan in steps of level ~30, level ~45, and level ~60.

Here's an example of my old build that's not as powerful now:

Level 30 - 2H focus, Get Resolute Technique and Blood Magic

Level 45 - Get more Life and Resistance

Level 60 - Iron Reflexes and Increased Armor&Evasion from Duelist tree

Again, this build kinda sucks, but it shows how to build characters in steps rather than going all out offence or defence. (Although I leaned more towards defence for the most part)
 

mileS

Member
Money is tight but I'm really really on the edge of spending $25 to get that pack for support. I love the direction they are taking this game. Listening to Chris Wilson talk in interviews and on the streams its clear to me that these guys know what the hell they are doing.
 

Wallach

Member
Melee builds seems pretty underpowered in PoE though. Freezing Pulse gives you a nice range advantage from level 1. What are your thoughts?

Melee does seem like a raw deal at the outset when you're new, but it's mostly because stuff actually does decent damage to you in this game right from the beginning. A big part of that though is only that early itemization control and having a strong passive progression for your build concept are still things beyond your knowledge. I'd also say that all three of the hybrid classes are harder to build for new players so that can affect new player perceptions as well. Once you get more comfortable with the item manipulation and get some of your early defensive bonuses (which melee start positions in the passive have an advantage in doing), the game becomes pretty comfortable for melee. When it comes to the very early levels (most of Normal) I've actually turned my opinion around and feel it probably slightly favors melee.

While it is true at the moment that ranged has a significant leg up when it comes to high level maps, melee definitely isn't underpowered in the sense of their power relative to the content. it's really only in comparison to high level ranged clearing efficiency, which is something you're going to see change over the coming weeks and months. In particular I'd expect to see some AoE buffs for strength and dexterity skill gems, tweaks to the armor and evasion calculations, and the first additional skill/support gems that are introduced post-OB-start also mainly going to the strength or dexterity columns.
 

Wallach

Member
So what classes have the option to go summoner?

All of them.

Here's the thing about Path of Exile; there really aren't classes. There's one giant class, and that's the passive skill tree and skill gem pool. When you are trying to create a build concept, it's more useful to plan it in the passive tree, then figure out which starting point - your "class" selection - connects to your build in the most efficient way.
 

cheesetom

Member
FDE6C509DF13390041DBA909D149120B0101F51F

Made me smile.
 

Dresden

Member
Man, that skill tree is intimidatingly large, but in a good way. It'll be fun to dig into something with a bit more meat.
 

NerTo

Neo Member
If anyone still wants to get in a day earlier, I've got a key left.
First one to respond.

EDIT: Key gone, PM sent.
 
Man, that skill tree is intimidatingly large, but in a good way. It'll be fun to dig into something with a bit more meat.

You can usually reduce it down to what parts branch from your starting area. It takes getting used to though, as you need to learn to plan for certain nodes and know where particular ones are located.
 
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