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Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

Mineshaft_Gap said:
For example, the dam:

You KNOW there's going to be an invasion of non infected enemy types because they conspicuously litter the area with defensive cover.

This didn't irk me too much in TLoU because it has only very few occasions of this but yeah, it is a thing. I found it pretty ridiculous in Mass Effect 2, for example.

Sande said:
You can go slow, you can go fast, you have full control. I'm pretty sure you can even sprint in stairs. They don't lock you in some rigid animation.

I'm trying to think if there are some specific stairs in the game that work how you're describing it but I'm drawing a blank.

I'm not sure anymore now. Did they really let you run on stairs in TLoU? Then why is the OP complaining?

Jack The Nipper said:
The other vehilces you see through out the game also have the same issue, it isn't just about physics but that they have no movement or immersion to them.

The dumpster actually rolls a lot more realistically at least though, more so than any of the cars. There is one part where the car is hit and has a realistic animation, but you can tell that is more like a mocap situation or something.

They didn't mocap a car. It's just good handcrafted animation.

But what the hell, complaining about car physics in a game where you never even drive a car? Please read the posts about priorities and concessions in game development a bit further up.

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

EatChildren said:
As someone who is usually pretty critical of Naughty Dog's work, I don't agree with most of this at all. Presentation and attention to detail in aesthetic and audio is Naughty Dog's crowning glory.

That being said, inconsistency in place space navigation and thus context of game systems is definitely an issue that constantly crops up. I feel with The Last of Us they got it mostly right, and it's their best example of such. But Uncharted as a serious is bloated with inconsistent instant kill falls and jumps, and ledges you can grab and other times cannot. Drake does what the story needs, or what the jump puzzle requires, rather than what actually makes sense to the player. They've gotten a lot better with it though, as going back and playing Uncharted 1 shows how nonsensical some of the level navigation is.

The companion AI quirk is a difficult one, because I don't think they tech is quite there. The Last of Us, for example, is elevated by having Ellie and co in tow. The banter and experience of journey works best as a team. Reality is programming believable AI that is also coherent and fair in response to opponent AI is extremely difficult; how do you make them move and engage convincingly, but also make sure they're not overpowered or so underpowered you're babysitting them? Finding a middle ground where their presence is noted by the opponent AI, but their presence doesn't feel disruptive to your own pace of play, is what leads to stuff like The Last of Us where it's wholly unrealistic. You just have to look past it, basically, so when Ellie bugs out a bit and runs past an opponent AI who takes no notice of her you just accept it and keep on going. But I get that's subjective.

I am one that couldn't play through UC2 again because I simply felt like I was watching something or doing something again and again that just left me out of the game way way too often, so I will agree with you that the game works overall better than UC, and it isn't even close.

But I am one of those that enjoy UC1 more than 2 even though it has it's fair share of game play/control issues but atleast doesn't have all the canned animation ideas thrown in that sort of drove me crazy in UC2, it's almost ok once but these games are harder for me to replay than something that is simply more fun in control/gameplay.

I admit these things use to bother me a lot less, but I feel we are in a time that these things should progress enough that they are more standard.

Wabba · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
it ins't full control, it's a forced speed of walk or sprint, two ways, but obviously far from full control. You can't make either of them slower or faster for example. how many ways can I go up stairs in other games? speed wise? Its the forced animation system causing such things.

I get people will say, oh you are whining about the way you move up stairs, but the point is thi sis whow the whole game works through tons of interactions.

Seriously what is the problem here, are you just trying to find faults where there are none? Do you criticize a game because the character can't jump two steps instead of one up a stair? Every game has forced animation, that's why it's a game.

goonergaz · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
Again, FPS vs TPS. See above.

In my opinion stuff in videogames that focus on their physics engine often breaks way too easily, in unrealistic fashion and it ruins the immersion just as much if not more than more static environments. The latter was definitely the more fitting choice for TLoU rather than a anything goes sandbox.

Again, ND made huge steps forward with each game and steadily elevated the TPS genre.

Please cite other TPS games for comparison, not Halo3, HL2 or Soma.

This.

Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
it ins't full control, it's a forced speed of walk or sprint, two ways, but obviously far from full control. You can't make either of them slower or faster for example. how many ways can I go up stairs in other games? speed wise? Its the forced animation system causing such things.

I get people will say, oh you are whining about the way you move up stairs, but the point is thi sis whow the whole game works through tons of interactions.

It's not a forced animation system. It's simply a different set of animations for stairs. And naturally, you're a bit slower on stairs.

At first I thought you were onto something here because I misremembered that aspect of the game but turns out you're not.

guek · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
Again, FPS vs TPS. See above.

In my opinion stuff in videogames that focus on their physics engine often breaks way too easily, in unrealistic fashion and it ruins the immersion just as much if not more than more static environments. The latter was definitely the more fitting choice for TLoU rather than a anything goes sandbox.

Again, ND made huge steps forward with each game and steadily elevated the TPS genre.

Please cite other TPS games for comparison, not Halo3, HL2 or Soma.

RE4 has breakable doors and windows and more interactive environments in general.

Combat in RE4 is also superior, as are encounters with infected since there are FAR fewer one hit deaths.

Kain · Apr 23, 2017

Well, if anything these complaints say a lot about ND's craftmanship. They are so good in what they do that one has to look for flaws were most people argue there are none.

I would criticize other aspects of their games, in UC3 the poor pacing or in UC2 the repetitive shooting (all the shooting sections felt the same at one point), but it's hard to find flaws in TLOU, for one. I mean, that game for what it is plays perfectly, the script is flawless, the animations are top notch, the locations are stunning and there is a huge deal of variety. And I don't like survival horror games, but that damn game is so good.

Though I wouldn't play it again to be honest.

SomTervo · Apr 23, 2017

Wait, vehicles? There are no vehicles in TLoU?

Do you just mean bits where your characters are sitting on vehicles?

Candescence said:
TLoU is one of those games that it's worth playing through once but never again. I mean, I'd consider trying to get platinum if not for the trophies for the multiplayer mode I have absolutely no interest in. The plot is interesting and I do enjoy the character interactions, but the mechanics aren't great.

I've completed it 7 times. Happy to go through it another few before i die.

geordiemp · Apr 23, 2017

However; there are a lot of issues that ND just can't seem to get right when compared to other AAA developers.

What a load of rubbish, stopped reading right there.

Give us a laugh and name some examples.

Are you posting just for the laughs or serious ?..

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
It's not a forced animation system. It's simply a different set of animations for stairs. And naturally, you're a bit slower on stairs.

At first I thought you were onto something here because I misremembered that aspect of the game but turns out you're not.

there are two forced speeds on the stairs, you can sort of diagonal your movements left or right with that forced speed but you cant actually move up stairs in any of the other character movement speeds.

Which actually, they don't have a lot of range in character moving speed to begin with for some reason. I noticed that at the start of the game and it seems like it may only have 3 strong speeds with slight varations from those up to the next main speed.

Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

guek said:
RE4 has breakable doors and windows and more interactive environments in general.

Doors and windows. That's pretty much it in RE4 and it focussed its gameplay a bit more around these gimmicks (enemies with wooden shields etc.). But what is more interactive other than that? You put up ladders in specific places, just like in TLoU. Hell, in TLoU you can even carry it. So no, RE4 environments are generally just as static.

guek said:
Combat in RE4 is also superior, as are encounters with infected since there are FAR fewer one hit deaths.

I really liked RE4 at the time but the better controls alone make TLoU a better action game for me.

ScientificPizza · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
Again, FPS vs TPS. See above.

In my opinion stuff in videogames that focus on their physics engine often breaks way too easily, in unrealistic fashion and it ruins the immersion just as much if not more than more static environments. The latter was definitely the more fitting choice for TLoU rather than a anything goes sandbox.

Again, ND made huge steps forward with each game and steadily elevated the TPS genre.

Please cite other TPS games for comparison, not Halo3, HL2 or Soma.

What does perspective have to do with AI

Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
there are two forced speeds on the stairs, you can sort of diagonal your movements left or right with that forced speed but you cant actually move up stairs in any of the other character movement speeds.

Which actually, they don't have a lot of range in character moving speed to begin with for some reason. I noticed that at the start of the game and it seems like it may only have 3 strong speeds with slight varations from those up to the next main speed.

Dude, it's getting a bit ridiculous. If you don't want to look like you're desperately looking for small things to get hung up on, you should not try as hard as you do here.

ScientificPizza said:
What does perspective have to do with AI

That post was not about AI but about physics based environment puzzles and being able to break everything. I thought it was pretty clear since I have never mentioned AI.

guek · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
Doors and windows. That's pretty much it in RE4 and it focussed its gameplay a bit more around these gimmicks (enemies with wooden shields etc.). But what is more interactive other than that? You put up ladders in specific places, just like in TLoU. Hell, in TLoU you can even carry it. So no, RE4 environments are generally just as static.

I really liked RE4 at the time but the better controls alone make TLoU a better action game for me.

RE4 gives you the ability to jump out windows. That alone gives the environment far more interactivity. In TLOU, the only way you interact with the environment in combat is hugging chest high walls. Running around guns blazing isn't a viable option unless you're playing on the easier modes. In RE4, you have to actually use your environment to your advantage, look for choke points, and be prepared to run if the situation demands it. The only thing TLOU does that RE4 doesn't is stealth which eventually becomes very boring. Once cover is blown though, your environment in TLOU doesn't matter beyond finding another chest high wall to hug.

SomTervo · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
Contextual game play issues - sometimes I need to go through a specific area that is always determined by a contextual movement path, such as tight spaces to squeeze through, small doorways etc

Sometimes the contextual area for these places are strange and don't really have a smooth area of transition or absorbing the transitions, sometimes you just get strongly shifted over two body sizes to the area it needs, other times you have to go out of the way to where it looks like you actually need to be to even get it to work.

These moments are to mask loading screens. Going back to Uncharted 1.

Would you prefer a fade to black and a loading screen or a short segment with dialogue and gameplay where we navigate a tight space?

PS i don't think you'll like TLoU's ending, OP. You seem like someone with a very literal and matter-of-fact mind. TLoU's ending is neither of those things.

Jack The Nipper said:
there are two forced speeds on the stairs, you can sort of diagonal your movements left or right with that forced speed but you cant actually move up stairs in any of the other character movement speeds.

Which actually, they don't have a lot of range in character moving speed to begin with for some reason. I noticed that at the start of the game and it seems like it may only have 3 strong speeds with slight varations from those up to the next main speed.

Does this really impact the entire game for you? Like, this could be a time where paying less attention will increase your enjoyment a thousandfold. You don't need to scrutinise every inch of a game.

As mentioned above, I've played the game 7 times and couldn't care less how the characters move on stairs.

They go up and down stairs. It literally never impedes gameplay. Why do i need to care beyond that?

sobaka770 · Apr 23, 2017

I think this guy is trolling you all.

There's no way anyone would expect stairs animations and car physics to be better in Last of us, of all games. The game where you don't drive a car and stair animations are actually much better than walking down an inclined plane.

Good laugh though!

Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

guek said:
RE4 gives you the ability to jump out windows. That alone gives the environment far more interactivity. In TLOU, the only way you interact with the environment in combat is hugging chest high walls. Running around guns blazing isn't a viable option unless you're playing on the easier modes. In RE4, you have to actually use your environment to your advantage, look for choke points, and be prepared to run if the situation demands it. The only thing TLOU does that RE4 doesn't is stealth which eventually becomes very boring. Once cover is blown though, your environment in TLOU doesn't matter beyond finding another chest high wall to hug.

Again, doors and windows. There is no more interactivity in RE4's environments so you are definitely wrong there. And I wholeheartedly disagree with the rest of your post as well.

SomTervo · Apr 23, 2017

sobaka770 said:
I think this guy is trolling you all.

There's no way anyone would expect stairs animations and car physics to be better in Last of us, of all games. The game where you don't drive a car and stair animations are actually much better than walking down an inclined plane.

Good laugh though!

It's starting to feel like that. Could just be someone obsessed with animation and mechanics though.

guek · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
Again, doors and windows. There is no more interactivity in RE4's environments so you are definitely wrong there. And I wholeheartedly disagree with the rest of your post as well.

What are you disagreeing with? I explained how being able to jump through windows drastically impacts gameplay in a way that's not available in TLOU. Being able to creep open doors and slip into rooms undetected or kick them open to knock back whoever is standing by them is also something absent from TLOU but is utilized in RE4.

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

It isn't my fault you guys focus on the stairs out of those issues, it isn't trolling but a part of their animation systems that I have issues with. I'd rather they just let me clip through the stairs rather than this canned system is all. this is the design aspects of most of the game, the stairs aren't the key issue but the design of what brings things to the stairs.

I ran up and down the stairs for like 8 minutes but wasnt sure if I would bother uploading it as I may need to get it to usb, some video program. Not sure if sharing videos work for me here.

kyser73 · Apr 23, 2017

Just stick to 6th gen games, OP, they're what you want to play.

Criticising a game's driving physics where the only driving you do is in cutscenes aside from on a level OP admits he hasn't reached yet...

Sande · Apr 23, 2017

What I don't get is that OP seems to suggest that TLOU is generations behind in these things when, really, it's pretty much the opposite.

Striving for perfection is fine and everything, but it rubs me the wrong way when TLOU is painted as some sub-par outlier.

Static environments and occasionally derpy AI I'll admit. I almost feel like reinstalling just to mess with the stairs because what OP is saying sounds completely foreign to me.

guek said:
RE4 gives you the ability to jump out windows. In RE4, you have to actually use your environment to your advantage, look for choke points, and be prepared to run if the situation demands it.

Both of these apply for TLOU. Of course in TLOU it's some specific windows (don't know how it is in RE4) and there are no large hordes of infected so choke points etc. are not a huge deal, but they're there if you need them. A lot of this sounds like 2 games with very different approaches and you're criticizing one of them just for being different.

Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

guek said:
What are you disagreeing with? I explained how being able to jump through windows drastically impacts gameplay in a way that's not available in TLOU. Being able to creep open doors and slip into rooms undetected or kick them open to knock back whoever is standing by them is also something absent from TLOU but is utilized in RE4.

Yeah well, in RE4's universe Leon making a jump-roll out of a 1st floor window does miraculously not break his back. Somehow I think that's not what ND was after with TLoU.

I'm disagreeing with RE4's combat feeling more strategic than TLoU's (which also felt pretty strategic to me and offered lots of movement choices and varied enironments to play around in) and with the stealth getting boring.

TLoU's combat is exactly what it needed to be. It doesn't have to include some ridiculous moves just because another game has it.

And I see we're back to doors now (again: doors and windows). I'm sure TLoU 2 will have more interactive doors. I'm sorry if that ruined the fantastic overall experience that TLoU is for you.

SomTervo · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
It isn't my fault you guys focus on the stairs out of those issues, it isn't trolling but a part of their animation systems that I have issues with. I'd rather they just let me clip through the stairs rather than this canned system is all. this is the design aspects of most of the game, the stairs aren't the key issue but the design of what brings things to the stairs.

I ran up and down the stairs for like 8 minutes but wasnt sure if I would bother uploading it as I may need to get it to usb, some video program. Not sure if sharing videos work for me here.

It's not just stairs though. It's also tight-space navigation as loading screens. And vehicles when they're never driven.

You don't need to provide examples - i completely understand what you mean about stairs and how they're animated. I just think it makes literally no difference to the game. We're talking about like 0.001% of the game's systems and content as if it's some big issue.

grimmiq · Apr 23, 2017

AI Partners - I'll give you this, it does look stupid to have them sprinting around and not being seen, but I'll take that over them alerting enemies in every 2nd room. Hopefully in TLOU2 it'll just be Ellie solo most of the time.

Contextual game play issues - Is your issue that there are these small 5 second animations that play to transition between new areas or that sometimes they can be a bit finicky? I'll agree with the latter, but it's not open world, if they blow out the levels there'll need to be some graphical and performance compromises.

The stair effect - What? What other game has running animations that perfectly step on stairs and take your speed into account? The difference in posture and motion between taking 1/2/3 stairs a time would require a hell of a lot of work for those whole 5-10seconds at a time that you're traversing them. In cutscenes I could understand it, but not in gameplay.

Vehicles - I don't get why you'd complain about how vehicles drive..in a game where you never drive vehicles.

Fuck my shit up Fam - It's been 20 years with no real maintenance outside the walls of quarantine zones.20 years of Rage Zombies chasing anything that moves, 20 years of survivors searching through houses to find anything of value. You expect that somewhere is going to have a still active Roomba?

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

kyser73 said:
Just stick to 6th gen games, OP, they're what you want to play.

Criticising a game's driving physics where the only driving you do is in cutscenes aside from on a level OP admits he hasn't reached yet...

There are various areas where you see vehicles moving and or going on front of you. They just look very out of place is all.

goonergaz · Apr 23, 2017

guek said:
RE4 gives you the ability to jump out windows. That alone gives the environment far more interactivity. In TLOU, the only way you interact with the environment in combat is hugging chest high walls. Running around guns blazing isn't a viable option unless you're playing on the easier modes. In RE4, you have to actually use your environment to your advantage, look for choke points, and be prepared to run if the situation demands it. The only thing TLOU does that RE4 doesn't is stealth which eventually becomes very boring. Once cover is blown though, your environment in TLOU doesn't matter beyond finding another chest high wall to hug.

Eh? You can jump through windows in TLoU and also when your cover is blown - even in the hardest level - you can re hide and return to stealth.

The stairs complaint is hilarious, due to it being a TPS animation means you will be restricted to a few different speeds or the animations will look wrong (imagine when you ff through a video of someone walking and see them walk at running speed).

guek · Apr 23, 2017

Sande said:
Both of these apply for TLOU.Both of these apply for TLOU. Of course in TLOU it's some specific windows (don't know how it is in RE4) and there are no large hordes of infected so choke points etc. are not a huge deal, but they're there if you need them. A lot of this sounds like 2 games with very different approaches and you're criticizing one of them just for being different.

Not really...

Maybe I played the game wrong. I'm open to that possibility and would love to see some gameplay where those mechanics come into play in a big way. The only time I remember running from enemies so I could re-position myself was fighting those

bloated infected

which only happens 3 or 4 times and in open areas.

I brought up RE4 because Bedlam asked for another TPS where the environment is more interactive.

goonergaz said:
Eh? You can jump through windows in TLoU and also when your cover is blown - even in the hardest level - you can re hide and return to stealth.

I meant when your cover is blown, you either fight by hugging chest high walls or returning to stealth. That was literally it for me.

sobaka770 · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
It isn't my fault you guys focus on the stairs out of those issues, it isn't trolling but a part of their animation systems that I have issues with. I'd rather they just let me clip through the stairs rather than this canned system is all. this is the design aspects of most of the game, the stairs aren't the key issue but the design of what brings things to the stairs.

I ran up and down the stairs for like 8 minutes but wasnt sure if I would bother uploading it as I may need to get it to usb, some video program. Not sure if sharing videos work for me here.

Do you also run up and down the stairs as in viruses in real life? I, actually, can't. I need to adjust my pacing and have a chance to fall if not careful.

Last of us strives for realistic portrayal of the character. Joel is not perfect, kinda old, has weight , cannot carry a lot of guns and I think it's actually a major plus that the game adapts animations for stairs. How many games do that?

What makes it trolling is that all of your issues are not even 0.1% of overall gameplay and you write Lttp for that before you finish the game. With that level of scrutiny I'm wondering how you even enjoy playing games because every game has issues like this and worse.

Bedlam · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
It isn't my fault you guys focus on the stairs out of those issues, it isn't trolling but a part of their animation systems that I have issues with. I'd rather they just let me clip through the stairs rather than this canned system is all. this is the design aspects of most of the game, the stairs aren't the key issue but the design of what brings things to the stairs.

I ran up and down the stairs for like 8 minutes but wasnt sure if I would bother uploading it as I may need to get it to usb, some video program. Not sure if sharing videos work for me here.

Err, nope. We're trying to move beyond that.

It becomes even more clear now. You want a janky physics sandbox and should've picked a different game then.

goonergaz · Apr 23, 2017

Also complaints at AI make me think people need to play on the hardest level. I used to complain about Halo AI but was told not to play on normal.

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

grimmiq said:
AI Partners - I'll give you this, it does look stupid to have them sprinting around and not being seen, but I'll take that over them alerting enemies in every 2nd room. Hopefully in TLOU2 it'll just be Ellie solo most of the time.

Contextual game play issues - Is your issue that there are these small 5 second animations that play to transition between new areas or that sometimes they can be a bit finicky? I'll agree with the latter, but it's not open world, if they blow out the levels there'll need to be some graphical and performance compromises.

The stair effect - What? What other game has running animations that perfectly step on stairs and take your speed into account? The difference in posture and motion between taking 1/2/3 stairs a time would require a hell of a lot of work for those whole 5-10seconds at a time that you're traversing them. In cutscenes I could understand it, but not in gameplay.

Vehicles - I don't get why you'd complain about how vehicles drive..in a game where you never drive vehicles.

Fuck my shit up Fam - It's been 20 years with no real maintenance outside the walls of quarantine zones.20 years of Rage Zombies chasing anything that moves, 20 years of survivors searching through houses to find anything of value. You expect that somewhere is going to have a still active Roomba?

There aren't a lot of people or zombies. Are clickers going to go in and wear down the chairs etc that plague each area.

Just having a few areas that are untocuhed is not something the story has to have but I actually thought there would be one later in the game where the characters comment how this building doesn't look as warn etc sort of comments. Assuming there isn't?

Lack of people and lack of use should actually give more areas without abuse than those with it. Minus the bombing but even that isn't hitting a high percentage.

SomTervo · Apr 23, 2017

grimmiq said:
Fuck my shit up Fam[/B] - It's been 20 years with no real maintenance outside the walls of quarantine zones.20 years of Rage Zombies chasing anything that moves, 20 years of survivors searching through houses to find anything of value. You expect that somewhere is going to have a still active Roomba?

Shit yeah i forgot about that point in the OP.

No, OP. Nobody is outside the city walls except infected.

20 years ago 99% of the human population was destroyed or turned into savage creatures that can spread the infection. EVERYONE is inside the quarantine zones.

It sounds like you're not really engaging with the fiction at all.

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

sobaka770 said:
Do you also run up and down the stairs as in viruses in real life? I, actually, can't. I need to adjust my pacing and have a chance to fall if not careful.

Last of us strives for realistic portrayal of the character. Joel is not perfect, kinda old, has weight , cannot carry a lot of guns and I think it's actually a major plus that the game adapts animations for stairs. How many games do that?

What makes it trolling is that all of your issues are not even 0.1% of overall gameplay and you write Lttp for that before you finish the game. With that level of scrutiny I'm wondering how you even enjoy playing games because every game has issues like this and worse.

I walk in stairs like a child myself. Slow and look at each one. But I can stumble fall and skip steps from time to time too. I think I'd do it differently if something was chasing me trying to eat me. I doubt I go into canned animation mode

GribbleGrunger · Apr 23, 2017

Candescence said:
TLoU is one of those games that it's worth playing through once but never again. I mean, I'd consider trying to get platinum if not for the trophies for the multiplayer mode I have absolutely no interest in. The plot is interesting and I do enjoy the character interactions, but the mechanics aren't great.

I played it 11 times.

goonergaz · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
There aren't a lot of people or zombies. Are clickers going to go in and wear down the chairs etc that plague each area.

Just having a few areas that are untocuhed is not something the story has to have but I actually thought there would be one later in the game where the characters comment how this building doesn't look as warn etc sort of comments. Assuming there isn't?

Lack of people and lack of use should actually give more areas without abuse than those with it. Minus the bombing but even that isn't hitting a high percentage.

You should really complete the game and come back - if you can deal game breaking stair walking at 2 different speeds and Ellie not alerting the baddies for you by running around when you're in stealth (etc).

I would also up the hard level

OniBaka · Apr 23, 2017

Was fine to me, replayed at least 6 times.

sobaka770 · Apr 23, 2017

Jack The Nipper said:
I walk in stairs like a child myself. Slow and look at each one. But I can stumble fall and skip steps from time to time too. I think I'd do it differently if something was chasing me trying to eat me. I doubt I go into canned animation mode

You need to chill, man. You're paying one of the most polished games in ages, and you complain about car physics. If you don't like what it goes for, then play something else.

The game was released on PS3 and stretched it capabilities to the max. Have some respect for the tech wizardry and his put to make this happen at all, rather than waste or time with "all apartments are abandoned", it takes me out of experience. These guys worked overtime for months to get this out, all obsessed with they're work. Tlou has issues, but you need to take a step back and realise how petty your points are and frankly insulting to the devs if you're not trolling.

TsuWave · Apr 23, 2017

TLoU multiplayer is one of the most fun multiplayer experiences I have had, so much so it still alive and thriving, I have sunk countless hours into it. People who skipped it missed out, that's a fact.

Complaints in the op, aside from companion AI, seem very nitpicky, I mean the game is set in the future and well into a "zombie apocalypse" type event and OP wants clean suburbs, what?

tzare · Apr 23, 2017

Johnny Cage said:
I can't believe people let such trivial things get in the way of enjoying a great game.

I'd love to see them nitpick all the games they love instead of the ones they do not for whatever reason.
If you don't like ND games, ok, go for others instead of forcing you to play them.
Every game has flaws, some objective, others subjective.

SomTervo · Apr 23, 2017

OP, if you're not playing on Hard, play on Hard with listen mode off.

Jack The Nipper said:
There aren't a lot of people or zombies. Are clickers going to go in and wear down the chairs etc that plague each area.

Just having a few areas that are untocuhed is not something the story has to have but I actually thought there would be one later in the game where the characters comment how this building doesn't look as warn etc sort of comments. Assuming there isn't?

Lack of people and lack of use should actually give more areas without abuse than those with it. Minus the bombing but even that isn't hitting a high percentage.

Why would you think there'd be a situation like that?

Within 1-5 years, countless roofs and probably most windows would have been broken in. Especially from all the conflict with the clickers and between gangs/survivors. That means all the wood would rot, all the metal would begin to rust to nothing, plaster would seep.

Then you have another 5-15 years of continued degradation in areas either completely uninhabited or inhabited by clickers and violence. Every winter snow would coat everything, make it fragile, then probably break it in the summer thaw. Whenever it rains everything will only get more damaged.

The ONLY areas that people will WANT to stay in - indeed, the only areas that will be maintained - are the militarised quarantines.

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

SomTervo said:
OP, if you're not playing on Hard, play on Hard with listen mode off.

Why would you think there'd be a situation like that?

Within 1-5 years, countless roofs and probably most windows would have been broken in. Especially from all the conflict with the clickers. That means all the wood would rot, all the metal would begin to rust to nothing, plaster would seep.

Then you have another 5-15 years of continued degradation in areas either completely uninhabited or inhabited by clickers and violence. Every winter snow would coat everything, make it fragile, then probably break it in the summer thaw.

The ONLY areas that will be maintained are militarised or quarantines.

I know we obviously disagree but even if they are inside they would show slight areas of movement, that is if they even go for food. You'd still have logical destruction in this sense as in you could tell where they have romed. but that's getting a bit more technical than it may need, too realistic. I just thibk the game is over done with bathroom stalls tire up and things looking overly abused everywhere at times. Most games of this nature would do this and yeah a lot of games need more physics and interaction

Tony Redgrave · Apr 23, 2017

Don't take this the wrong way OP but the fact that IMO your list seems mostly like nitpicking is actually a testament of how good the game is.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and hope they improve the aspects you listed in their coming projects (especially A.I. you're exactly right in that particular topic) but after playing stuff like Mass Effect Andromeda where sometimes I simply get an infinite loading screen, I actually appreciate that ND's games just get such minute stuff wrong.

Hux1ey · Apr 23, 2017

goonergaz said:
Also complaints at AI make me think people need to play on the hardest level. I used to complain about Halo AI but was told not to play on normal.

Nah the AI is dumb, it's not just about difficulty. In the E3 gameplay the AI seemed quite a bit smarter than the final game.

Osukaa · Apr 23, 2017

Bedlam said:
AI partners: I found them pretty good in this game actually compared to many other games with sidekicks. Never really had any issues (except maybe immersion breaking-related issues because they can't die - which is still preferable to the frustrating alternative of game overs due to stupid sidekick deaths)

Contextual game play issues: wat. Are you saying some triggers for scripted scenes do not work properly? Never had issues there as far as I can remember.

The stair effect: wat

Vehicles: yeah the horse feels a bit funny but still very competent. No real problem here in my opinion.

Fuck my shit up Fam: Well, due to the scenario most places are deserted and many have seen fights between factions and over looting. There are clean places in the game, you know, where people actually still live. Be it a basement or something larger. Finish the game before you criticize it here.

.

oneils · Apr 23, 2017

The naughty dog games do feel like they are on rails, and I lose interest pretty fast. They aren't my thing. They do look fantastic.

Savantcore · Apr 23, 2017

I didn't like the colour of Joel's shirt. 4/10

Fancy Clown · Apr 23, 2017

Not that there aren't things to criticize about ND games....but those are some weird issues to focus on I gotta say

Jack The Nipper · Apr 23, 2017

Isn't that the meat of the gameplay and codinf aspects that drive the game. What you actually play, the ground work of any game have you

I love the game a bit but find myself wishing it didn't have any enemies honestly. I get more annoyed when enemies come atleast they aren't fun to play against.

Chuck Norris · Apr 23, 2017

Contextual game play issues - sometimes I need to go through a specific area that is always determined by a contextual movement path, such as tight spaces to squeeze through, small doorways etc

Sometimes the contextual area for these places are strange and don't really have a smooth area of transition or absorbing the transitions, sometimes you just get strongly shifted over two body sizes to the area it needs, other times you have to go out of the way to where it looks like you actually need to be to even get it to work.

I don't get what this means? Are you talking about when you might squeeze through a gap in the wall? IIRC the reason ND does this is because it hides load times in those transitions

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