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LTTP: The Last of Us - ND still having design issues in the AAA space (No Spoilers)
- Thread starter Jack The Nipper
- Start date
As are most TLoU criticism threads. That people have to try so hard to dislike it says enough.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
To the guy saying you ran at different speeds on the stairs, that isn't true. It just isn't and goes against the way they designed the animation and movement system. Not sure what you are saying but if you try to chanage speeds you either stay the same or actually stop moving, maybe your thinking of camera panning or something, I have no idea.
I feel a lot of people read into things completely wrong with people saying I don't like the game or that I should just say I don't like it, I never said I dislike the game and please show me where I did or please read what I said at face value perhaps.
Some of you are off base in saying the game doesn't need to have good this or that cause it isn't a "forza" or whatever. It has plenty of vehicle moments where you see vehicles, run from vehicles, push vehicles and not to mention this isn't just a game from a studio. This is from the Uncharted engine where vehicles have been used quite a bit, so I don't see the point in giving them slack on not having vehicles work a little better.
Also, please forget the stairs, it's the game's animation and game play systems that needs work, the stairs is just .2 percent of that overall package.
If you can't see where better AI, more dynamic physics can make this type of game better then I guess you may not want it better.
To the guy saying that you don't need physics in this game, well I'd argue that almost any game can be better with realistic physics, racing games are no where near, would be great if they acted somewhat realistically, the different in power, ground to ground movement is huge. It isn't that you must have physics to make a game better, no you actually don't but when you are sitting in a realistic situation I feel it can help.
Why you wouldn't want doors to actually move in a game is a little perplexing to me though, can't be that hard to let doors move around when touching them or pushing into them after they are opened. I think it doesn't work in their design system to have doors open and to have thinks like windows be broken, they have a lot of issues in design and the things they design around that is all part of the issue.
At the end of the day I am not saying this game is bad, I am not saying it's made badly, it's still made in the 90 percentile of good games to be fair but the issue comes when you are not showing a new dog any new tricks, and that is the feeling I get that they are just going through the motions.
I would suggest they hire a couple of actual car , physics based designers/coders to help out since it seems they have sort of stayed the same for so long. Couldn't hurt
Look at it this way, if I know we are designing this world/game where we have points or choke points to continue the story then we are just going through the motions of ND game design. So, if I had to design a level and I wanted to design something that let me break windows and create a short cut between two homes and move around all of it freely, well this is a simple task that the basic game design doesn't allow. The designers and creators are all sort of being held back by a lot of strong conditions.
I'm simply saying they need to expand on the overall gameplay experience and maybe try to up their game on animation. They use to be impressive but now a lot of games have surpassed them and I'd say from what I see of Horizon it has a much better system of change from game to game regarding actual changes in overall gameplay design and movement.
I do not get the same feeling from ND as I do with GG with the ability of creating something that is not only different, but plays well and fresh compared to their previous work.
I don't think ND has made a bad game or anything that is actually completely bad, they just have kept in a safe zone far too long without an overhaul, it's a lot like Madden in that respect.
I actually prefer gameplay over visuals as well, but I can understand where art style and good visuals can propel games. I still play a lot of games that play a lot worse than this one and I'd say something like outlast is a lot worse and more tedious than TLOU for example but I still liked parts of it but those kind thingames where you are forced to do things very specifically are getting tedious to me. I recently played limbo and felt it was a pile of complete crap that was nothing more than very basic and forced puzzles yet I have heard nothing but praise for years and years on it, makes little logical sense to me as you have hundreds of better designed levels and creative ideas on LBP to be honest.
I feel a lot of people read into things completely wrong with people saying I don't like the game or that I should just say I don't like it, I never said I dislike the game and please show me where I did or please read what I said at face value perhaps.
Some of you are off base in saying the game doesn't need to have good this or that cause it isn't a "forza" or whatever. It has plenty of vehicle moments where you see vehicles, run from vehicles, push vehicles and not to mention this isn't just a game from a studio. This is from the Uncharted engine where vehicles have been used quite a bit, so I don't see the point in giving them slack on not having vehicles work a little better.
Also, please forget the stairs, it's the game's animation and game play systems that needs work, the stairs is just .2 percent of that overall package.
If you can't see where better AI, more dynamic physics can make this type of game better then I guess you may not want it better.
To the guy saying that you don't need physics in this game, well I'd argue that almost any game can be better with realistic physics, racing games are no where near, would be great if they acted somewhat realistically, the different in power, ground to ground movement is huge. It isn't that you must have physics to make a game better, no you actually don't but when you are sitting in a realistic situation I feel it can help.
Why you wouldn't want doors to actually move in a game is a little perplexing to me though, can't be that hard to let doors move around when touching them or pushing into them after they are opened. I think it doesn't work in their design system to have doors open and to have thinks like windows be broken, they have a lot of issues in design and the things they design around that is all part of the issue.
At the end of the day I am not saying this game is bad, I am not saying it's made badly, it's still made in the 90 percentile of good games to be fair but the issue comes when you are not showing a new dog any new tricks, and that is the feeling I get that they are just going through the motions.
I would suggest they hire a couple of actual car , physics based designers/coders to help out since it seems they have sort of stayed the same for so long. Couldn't hurt
Look at it this way, if I know we are designing this world/game where we have points or choke points to continue the story then we are just going through the motions of ND game design. So, if I had to design a level and I wanted to design something that let me break windows and create a short cut between two homes and move around all of it freely, well this is a simple task that the basic game design doesn't allow. The designers and creators are all sort of being held back by a lot of strong conditions.
I'm simply saying they need to expand on the overall gameplay experience and maybe try to up their game on animation. They use to be impressive but now a lot of games have surpassed them and I'd say from what I see of Horizon it has a much better system of change from game to game regarding actual changes in overall gameplay design and movement.
I do not get the same feeling from ND as I do with GG with the ability of creating something that is not only different, but plays well and fresh compared to their previous work.
I don't think ND has made a bad game or anything that is actually completely bad, they just have kept in a safe zone far too long without an overhaul, it's a lot like Madden in that respect.
This seems fairly inaccurate and unreasonable, can you not say what you don't like or what can be improved on something and still like it? It seems you are making a point that is not only baseless but useless to have any real meaning or point to the truth, so what is the point?
I actually prefer gameplay over visuals as well, but I can understand where art style and good visuals can propel games. I still play a lot of games that play a lot worse than this one and I'd say something like outlast is a lot worse and more tedious than TLOU for example but I still liked parts of it but those kind thingames where you are forced to do things very specifically are getting tedious to me. I recently played limbo and felt it was a pile of complete crap that was nothing more than very basic and forced puzzles yet I have heard nothing but praise for years and years on it, makes little logical sense to me as you have hundreds of better designed levels and creative ideas on LBP to be honest.
fvng
Member
but is it better than way of the warrior
With how slow paced the MP is the control method really doesn't matter. I wouldn't recommend going back to it now for a number of reasons but MP at launch was really quite good and unlike anything else out there.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It's not a hard game to dislike.
and an absolutely exceptional multiplayer experience, sorry you missed that part.
more like everyone who dislikes feels an incredible need to broadcast that fact as though it elevates them above the crowd somehow.
paragonpro
Banned
One day ill finish this game, i just need to pass the point i was at on ps3, every time ive tried remastered ive burnt out because ive played half of it already
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lol what an awful post. Talk about nitpicking. I wouldn't be surprised if the op has a severe case of OCD in his real life.
Naughty dog should frame this post in their offices because this shows how great that really is, people have to resort to these nitpicky shit because the game is pretty much flawless from a gameplay and story perspective.
Once again i feel compelled to state how awful that post really is. Maybe next time when the op decides to criticize a game maybe he will choose things that actually affect the gameplay.
Naughty dog should frame this post in their offices because this shows how great that really is, people have to resort to these nitpicky shit because the game is pretty much flawless from a gameplay and story perspective.
Once again i feel compelled to state how awful that post really is. Maybe next time when the op decides to criticize a game maybe he will choose things that actually affect the gameplay.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
There's multiplayer in TLOU? Lol, why?
I, too, would play again for platinum. Just have not had the time....
Shadow_FFVI
Member
The only bad part about The Last of Us is how it influenced Uncharted 4 and made it less bombastic and thrilling.
xenorevlis
Member
It's actually kind of incredible. It was my favorite tps multiplayer experience last gen aside from Uncharted 2.
Chuck Norris
Banned
The game isn't designed around letting AI prance in front of enemies. Most of the time the team AI is in realistic stealth. But they took out the enemies reacting to the team AI because it would destroy player agency and introduce frustration if the AI is constantly being spotted
The other option is for them to keep team mates entirely out of frame but again this isn't their vision. You are very much cooperating with a partner.
Third, you really think they should have gone the damsel in distress route like RE4? Not only would that totally destroy the characters they were trying to establish in Tess and Ellie, it would stop it being a stealth game entirely
They will continue improving their AI structure in the next game. We know they had to reduce apt of complexity for the AI from the first time the game was shown due to technical challenges of the PS3. But when they are trying one of the more complex AI systems in a game, some bugs will creep in
The Artisan
Member
by their you mean druckmann and staley's?
-nobody played Uc1
-played Uc2 and thought it was one of the best games; I got nostalgic feelings for it now
-played some of Uc3 and if it weren't for the bossfight, I would say this is better than Uc2
-Uc4 is definitely the best game in the series, with the more mature tone but still had disappointing parts of the story
I didn't play much Uc3 mp, but I loved that it had splitscreen. Uc4 loses points for not having that but also loses even more points for not having any coop, and no fuckin survival waves does not count as coop, the missions from Uc2 is the most Uncharted mp I ever played before competitive in Uc4.
a lot of games don't come close.
what?
what?
The Artisan
Member
Hah, cool
Md Ray
Member
This seriously feels like you're trolling.. Do you even realize TLOU came out 4 years ago and was a PS3 game, designed around the console's limited 512 MB RAM? While Horizon is a 2017 game, designed with PS4's hardware in mind. How are they comparable? Obviously Horizon or any current-gen title for that matter, will be much more improved due to better hardware and more memory.
And you obviously haven't played ND's latest game (Uncharted 4), which is also made for PS4 from ground up. Animations in that game are simply unmatched. And that is just an understatement.
EDIT: Also this:
AlexFlame116
Member
The Salt Lake City inner city area (especially the Temple) looks pretty nice. But we don't really go into the heart of the city so we never know.
Plus I'm being biased haha!
OrbitalBeard
Member
When you have to resort to this level of nitpicking, you know a truly special game has been created.
theyturkerjurbs
Neo Member
Always thought the last of us was super solid mechanically. Loved re playing the hotel segment just to see the different ways it could unfold. I'm all for criticism; though if you're consciously pondering the stair animation this much then it must not be gripping you in the right way?
InsaneTiger
Member
You're right, you know something is a really special thing when people are constantly debating it. If you're not being not talked about, good or bad, what does that say? Probably wasn't memorable.
Fancy Clown
Member
Bruh, you're the one who dedicated a whole paragraph to the stair "issue" in your OP lol
themidnightsun156
Member
that's a shame because the multiplayer is absolutely brilliant, one of the best multiplayer experiences ive ever had
I'm glad I played through the game because of the amazing presentation, but the gameplay did leave a lot to be desired. There aren't many options to traverse the levels, you either toss bottles and sneak around to avoid combat or use the usual grenades and guns to kill everything. The gameplay isn't bad, it just isn't deep enough to warrant multiple playthroughs.
Guess what, a popular game by a developer like ND is bound to be played by many. A lot of people loved it, and some did not. This forum serves the discussion of video games, and when someone creates a thread with an OP longer than 3 sentences and explains why he/she did not like game X, thats a valid point to make.
Worth way more than what you posted.
TrynUrLuck
Member
You could nitpick any great game. This is just ridiculous, especially the stair issue lmao. Also side note, as someone who never has really been into MP this was the only game to have me hooked, over 150 hours clocked in which is ten times more than I've put in most other games.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Net_Wrecker
Member
Someone feel free to lightly boop me on the head and tell me to simmer down if my Naughty Dog "criticisms" reach this level.
Funny, ive replayed it several times and the highly emergent AI and great level design makes it insanely repayable. The way things go wrong and how you improvise through them is god tier game design. I've replayed certain segments tens of times just to play with the systems.
Left Behind is even better when it throws multiple factions into the mix.
an op falling all over itself to nitpick and make claims without backing them up isnt worth that much to me nor do half baked arguments that amount to little more than repeating "the gameplay is bad!".
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I dislike the guy who first used nitpicking in this thread. The follow crowd or likely influence is driving my olbrain insane. Brainy wane.
Can't you guys omot the word from existence for thee next few days and use something else.
Anyways, the over use of ideas and lack of understanding here is beyond me right now
I know it was a ps3 game, I know it's old
Age and visuals has nothing to do with the core issues of ai, basic game play ideas with non functioning doors, and general flat uninspired level deign that doesn't give any options to gameplay that often.
The issues with contextual gameplay isn't that it works but that it's over used and leaves open ended skill gameplay missing and this is a big part of nd gameplay that is well not very dynamic or skillfull.
Everything is sort of boxed in a very structured world, contex ladders, doors, and ledges.
But seriously, why does every stuck door or stuck something require three button presses or three shoulder hits to open
I will also say again, I like the game. Seems you guys are missing what I say but can read short nitpicking posts to stick in your mind. I like the game, I like the area, the overall atmosphere and story. I don't mind and enjoy playing through it.
But the nd gameplay style of contextual movement and animation, level design system needs a huge overhaul. This was the third game that followed it and luckily, it toned down the game breaking immersion of having cutscenes added everywhere like uc2.
I'm glad I bought the game on sale last week, and look forward to part two and my future play through of uc4. Can't wait
I'm now interested to see how re7 compares to this overall. Another game I'm definitely interested to see how gameplay fairs compared to games that do it wrong like outlast did. Very scripted nature of games are becoming the new openworld drain for me
Can't you guys omot the word from existence for thee next few days and use something else.
Anyways, the over use of ideas and lack of understanding here is beyond me right now
I know it was a ps3 game, I know it's old
Age and visuals has nothing to do with the core issues of ai, basic game play ideas with non functioning doors, and general flat uninspired level deign that doesn't give any options to gameplay that often.
The issues with contextual gameplay isn't that it works but that it's over used and leaves open ended skill gameplay missing and this is a big part of nd gameplay that is well not very dynamic or skillfull.
Everything is sort of boxed in a very structured world, contex ladders, doors, and ledges.
But seriously, why does every stuck door or stuck something require three button presses or three shoulder hits to open
I will also say again, I like the game. Seems you guys are missing what I say but can read short nitpicking posts to stick in your mind. I like the game, I like the area, the overall atmosphere and story. I don't mind and enjoy playing through it.
But the nd gameplay style of contextual movement and animation, level design system needs a huge overhaul. This was the third game that followed it and luckily, it toned down the game breaking immersion of having cutscenes added everywhere like uc2.
I'm glad I bought the game on sale last week, and look forward to part two and my future play through of uc4. Can't wait
I'm now interested to see how re7 compares to this overall. Another game I'm definitely interested to see how gameplay fairs compared to games that do it wrong like outlast did. Very scripted nature of games are becoming the new openworld drain for me
Day the word, I say! Day. The. Word!
LOL
I want my username changed to Day. The. Word.
Oh Jack just give it a rest man before you lose your thread making privileges. This is some ridiculous "nitpicking"
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Day of the auto correct, part 1000
Heckler456
Banned
Yup. I'm at 9 playthrough I think. I can basically run through the entire game in my head, even though it's been 1+ year since the last time I played.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I'd ask why, generally I understand you want to and like it. Personally having to go through the motions feels beyond repetitive for me sincere gameplay isn't great.
It's well worth it to me once as to see the atmosphere, story and what's next but wouldn't be a point to play a second time as all that is lost.
I'll definitely be playing the dlc portion though
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Gameplay is excellent.
Ai is great.
Movement feel and input is great.
Combat scenarios are open ended and require a lot of adapting.
All your points don't hold up. The only thing that was annoying for me was your ai partner roaming all over and not alerting the enemy ai but I can't even begin to understand what a nightmare that would be to figure out.
MP is phenom
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
The MP really does show how mechanically solid the game is.
For me, when discussing SP replays, all I can say is thank god for the chapter select. Those forced walking, ladders, swimming and raft Ellie sections are a bit tedious when going from start to finish. But sometimes I'll think 'I fancy killing fireflies in the grand hotel/fancy doing winter section today' etc)
But the MP is just awesome. I'm not the best with gunplay, so I have the option of lots of guns which are generally balanced or have a counter-point to them. And I have enough skills to completely negate the gunplay if I want to run around and be the revivor/marker/medic. And whenever I get bored I just use different guns or different skills. The MP replayability is awesome. The games been out for about 4 years now and MP is still a daily thing for me.
But the MP is just awesome. I'm not the best with gunplay, so I have the option of lots of guns which are generally balanced or have a counter-point to them. And I have enough skills to completely negate the gunplay if I want to run around and be the revivor/marker/medic. And whenever I get bored I just use different guns or different skills. The MP replayability is awesome. The games been out for about 4 years now and MP is still a daily thing for me.
I disagree - it's probably the last game that I went through and played through on each difficulty setting. The last two are excellent and a much different experience. Also the multiplayer is actually sublime, and a refreshing change of pace to the multiplayer components of most games. 4 x 4 stealth for the most part, Need to get back on it on Ps4.
Hidden One
Member
I can only play through ND games once.
My only HUGE problem with ND games is their tendency to go all cinematic and story telling that they forget about gameplay.
The last of us is good, but I couldnt play it more than one time. A lot of ppl have mentioned grounded difficulty is where it shines. Which begs the questions why didnt naughty dog introduced the game in that fashion?
The last of us is good, but I couldnt play it more than one time. A lot of ppl have mentioned grounded difficulty is where it shines. Which begs the questions why didnt naughty dog introduced the game in that fashion?
Because they wanted to make the game accessible to the masses.
Grounded is too hard for a first playthrough. Plus the game is great even on lower difficulties.
I played through it 4 times and really enjoyed all the playthroughs. The open-ended aspect of the encounters make them a lot of fun.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I'm just gonna comment on this.
There ARE some places untouched in the game, but as barren an empty as can be, probably due to looters or fights between different groups of people/smugglers/infected.
Also abandoned areas will look worse for wear quickly. On my way to my brother in law's farm there are some factories that have been abandoned, and some of the places look strikingly similar to some areas in Last of Us.