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NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers™ Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller

G

Gigglepoo

Member
mjp2417 said:
LMA makes no sense on a team that already has Love and Thompson. I don't really see any way the Spurs can finesse a trade for Kyrie, even if they bring in a third team. The silver lining is that if I'm the Spurs I'm absolutely confident I can get a meeting with LeBron next summer as long as Kyrie isn't there.
Click to expand...

Move Love to Denver for Gary Harris and whoever else the Nuggets were offering in that rumored Paul George trade.

Honestly, if the Spurs can get Kyrie, everyone on the team (other than Leonard) is disposible. Get great talent and then figure out the rest afterward. There's no way they should hold up landing a potential star because of Danny Freaking Green.

EDIT -- I just realize that Denver probably doesn't want Love now that they have Paul Millsap. This crazy offseason!
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
Move Love to Denver for Gary Harris and whoever else the Nuggets were offering in that rumored Paul George trade.

Honestly, if the Spurs can get Kyrie, everyone on the team (other than Leonard) is disposible. Get great talent and then figure out the rest afterward. There's no way they should hold up landing a potential star because of Danny Freaking Green.
Click to expand...

The problem the Spurs have is they don't have any real high end assets (outside of Kawhi obviously) that would appeal to Cleveland. Danny Green obviously has appeal, but he's only a nice supplementary piece.
 
T

True Savior

Member
mjp2417 said:
LMA makes no sense on a team that already has Love and Thompson. I don't really see any way the Spurs can finesse a trade for Kyrie, even if they bring in a third team. The silver lining is that if I'm the Spurs I'm absolutely confident I can get a meeting with LeBron next summer as long as Kyrie isn't there.
Click to expand...

Lebron in the western conference coached by Pop? Seems a tad unrealistic.
 
D

darkwing-buck

Member
After the LMA ordeal, it made me realize you can't just plug in a player in the spurs system and play systematic basketball. I used to think if Pop got a hold of player, he'd do wonders. But after seeing LMA on that team, he can't get through to everyone.

Who knows if Kyrie would buy into SA.
 
S

Starphoenix

Member
darkwing-buck said:
After the LMA ordeal, it made me realize you can't just plug in a player in the spurs system and play systematic basketball. I used to think if Pop got a hold of player, he'd do wonders. But after seeing LMA on that team, he can't get through to everyone.

Who knows if Kyrie would buy into SA.
Click to expand...
I feel like Kyrie has the ability to adapt better than LMA.
 
H

Hydrus

Member
That Windhorst dude always creeped me out. Follows LeBron everywhere he goes. I can imagine LeBron taking a piss in a urinal then turning around suddenly to see Windhorst standing behind him. Wonder whats gonna happen to his career when Bron retires?
 
D

darkwing-buck

Member
Hydrus said:
That Windhorst dude always creeped me out. Follows LeBron everywhere he goes. I can imagine LeBron taking a piss in a urinal then turning around suddenly to see Windhorst standing behind him. Wonder whats gonna happen to his career when Bron retires?
Click to expand...

Yeah, apparently dude's been following him since HS? :eek:
 
CD'S BAR

CD'S BAR

Member
darkwing-buck said:
After the LMA ordeal, it made me realize you can't just plug in a player in the spurs system and play systematic basketball. I used to think if Pop got a hold of player, he'd do wonders. But after seeing LMA on that team, he can't get through to everyone.

Who knows if Kyrie would buy into SA.
Click to expand...

Aldridge was quite good in his first year as a Spur. Hard to pinpoint what went wrong with him this past year but I'd put that more on him than Popovich. Must have been Duncan's absence or something. Like he realized before everyone else that he's not the man to fill that void after all.
 
M

Macadinho94

Member
Yeah, Brian gets too much flak online. I've gotten the impression that he's not that close to LeBron anymore and genuinely has good insights on the podcasts I listen to. ESPN's other Cleveland writer McMenamin seems a lot closer to LeBron's people nowadays
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Windhorst is actually a pretty funny dude, really great on podcasts.

Used to think of him as just a Lebron fanboy, but he's a legit reporter and one of the cooler NBA personalities on ESPN.
 
T

TTG

Member
He's a gossip columnist. He's expanded somewhat, but it's his wheelhouse. I know if Kyrie slapped him around a little after all this I wouldn't mind at all.
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
True Savior said:
Lebron in the western conference coached by Pop? Seems a tad unrealistic.
Click to expand...

I don't have a clue what LeBron really wants at this stage of his career, but if he wants to dethrone the Warriors he should team up with Kawhi and Pop. Like, if you were hypothetically constructing a team to beat them your first 2 moves would be, in order, get LeBron then get Kawhi, and not too far after, get Pop.
 
B

bionic77

Member
KissDaRing said:
Well it seems Cavs management is what spurred Kyrie's decision to want to just up and leave the organization. Personally I can't blame him... http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/r...eorge-butler-trade-talks/?ftag=SNL-04-10aaa0b
Click to expand...
If everything the team does is only to appease LeBron and build for the very short term it can't be surprising that would eventually piss off Kyrie.

And just like LeBron he is smart to be planning a getaway from what is going to soon be a sinking ship.
 
M

MushroomSamba

Member
bionic77 said:
If everything the team does is only to appease LeBron and build for the very short term it can't be surprising that would eventually piss off Kyrie.

And just like LeBron he is smart to be planning a getaway from what is going to soon be a sinking ship.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but what I don't understand is why now? Playing with LeBron gives him the best shot at another ring aside from joining up with the Warriors themselves. If he felt this way, the better play would've been riding out another year THEN force a trade when LeBron actually jumps ship. Or maybe he just really hates LeBron that much too and wants to screw him over for the season.
 
A

Arol

Member
You guys make it to games often throughout the season?

I'm thinking of hitting up Staples Center this season whenever I can get some cheap tickets. Never been to a basketball game before so it should be cool.
 
K

KissDaRing

Banned
MushroomSamba said:
Yeah, but what I don't understand is why now? Playing with LeBron gives him the best shot at another ring aside from joining up with the Warriors themselves. If he felt this way, the better play would've been riding out another year THEN force a trade when LeBron actually jumps ship. Or maybe he just really hates LeBron that much too and wants to screw him over for the season.
Click to expand...

Because they were just shopping him a few weeks ago for Paul George or Jimmy Butler. He's been a company guy from day one. Now they wanna ship him out of town to a non playoff team and you expect him to stay loyal. Da hell with that. He can't force a trade when Lebron leaves with 2 years left on the deal. The team will hang on to him and dick him around for another year. He's smart for wanting to get out now and try and dictate his future. You can tell there was plenty of tension with himself and Lebron the past year. Look at the game film. You can see between timeouts their communication is almost non-existent and they basically avoid each other when one of them goes on a personal scoring run. No pumping each other up or congratulating each other. They basically stayed out each others way for the most part while the other teammates would chest bump them or whatever.
 
Cornbread78

Cornbread78

Member
bionic77 said:
If everything the team does is only to appease LeBron and build for the very short term it can't be surprising that would eventually piss off Kyrie.

And just like LeBron he is smart to be planning a getaway from what is going to soon be a sinking ship.
Click to expand...

Don't play coy buddy. We all know your laughing knowing he is going to be a Laker next year along with PG13, Wade, etc. Maybe even Westbrook will take a 1 year discount to join to party,


I expect so much nonsense in the upcoming off season that would make this crazy offseason blush. They are all gunning to put a stop to Durant's "bit(h made" chips and Durant's "team friendly" contract.....


KissDaRing said:
Because they were just shopping him a few weeks ago for Paul George or Jimmy Butler. He's been a company guy from day one. Now they wanna ship him out of town to a non playoff team and you expect him to stay loyal. Da hell with that. He can't force a trade when Lebron leaves with 2 years left on the deal. The team will hang on to him and dick him around for another year. He's smart for wanting to get out now and try and dictate his future. You can tell there was plenty of tension with himself and Lebron the past year. Look at the game film. You can see between timeouts their communication is almost non-existent and they basically avoid each other when one of them goes on a personal scoring run. No pumping each other up or congratulating each other. They basically stayed out each others way for the most part while the other teammates would chest bump them or whatever.
Click to expand...


The base of it is that LeBron is leaving next season, Kyrie knows it and he doesn't want to get stuck in the subsequent $hitstorm that will follow. I don't blame him one bit here.. Robin has to grow on his own (and be horribly exposed for his total lack of D)
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
Arol said:
You guys make it to games often throughout the season?

I'm thinking of hitting up Staples Center this season whenever I can get some cheap tickets. Never been to a basketball game before so it should be cool.
Click to expand...

If it were my first game, I would try to save up and get good/decent seats. Don't sit in nosebleeds for your first game.
 
M

MushroomSamba

Member
KissDaRing said:
Because they were just shopping him a few weeks ago for Paul George or Jimmy Butler. He's been a company guy from day one. Now they wanna ship him out of town to a non playoff team and you expect him to stay loyal. Da hell with that. He can't force a trade when Lebron leaves with 2 years left on the deal. The team will hang on to him and dick him around for another year. He's smart for wanting to get out now and try and dictate his future. You can tell there was plenty of tension with himself and Lebron the past year. Look at the game film. You can see between timeouts their communication is almost non-existent and they basically avoid each other when one of them goes on a personal scoring run. No pumping each other up or congratulating each other. They basically stayed out each others way for the most part while the other teammates would chest bump them or whatever.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't he actually have more leverage next offseason? He'll be in his final year of the contract, so the Cavs have more urgency to get something back for him. They can dick him around now because they know he's still on contract for 2 years. No reason to rush. He'd be in much better shape to dictate where he goes next year, since the team to take him will want an extension and not have him leave for FA after a year.

I'm thinking he just wants to stick it to LeBron/Cavs and completely ruin their chance for another shot this year.
 
O

otapnam

Member
Arol said:
You guys make it to games often throughout the season?

I'm thinking of hitting up Staples Center this season whenever I can get some cheap tickets. Never been to a basketball game before so it should be cool.
Click to expand...

Try watching day of game ticket prices on nbatickets.com, i have some friends that often score cheap tickets within hours of the game.

No idea how crazy the lonzomania is going to be though
 
K

KissDaRing

Banned
MushroomSamba said:
Wouldn't he actually have more leverage next offseason? He'll be in his final year of the contract, so the Cavs have more urgency to get something back for him. They can dick him around now because they know he's still on contract for 2 years. No reason to rush. He'd be in much better shape to dictate where he goes next year, since the team to take him will want an extension and not have him leave for FA after a year.

I'm thinking he just wants to stick it to LeBron/Cavs and completely ruin their chance for another shot this year.
Click to expand...

He actually has 3 years on his deal. It'll be 2 years left on his deal when Lebron walks next offseason. He's more appetizing for other teams to acquire because of his contract situation.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
bionic77 said:
If everything the team does is only to appease LeBron and build for the very short term it can't be surprising that would eventually piss off Kyrie.

And just like LeBron he is smart to be planning a getaway from what is going to soon be a sinking ship.
Click to expand...

It's incredible that in two separate times with the Cavs, Cleveland ruined any chance of long-term success by loading up on veterans to appeal to LeBron's win-now attitude. The same thing happened in Miami, too. The threat of LeBron leaving (or just pouting behind the scenes) may have cost him a few rings. Possibly. Who knows how successful they would have been in building a team slowly instead of quick fixes that are way too old and expensive to be sustainable. But it's a fun what if.
 
K

KissDaRing

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
It's incredible that in two separate times with the Cavs, Cleveland ruined any chance of long-term success by loading up on veterans to appeal to LeBron's win-now attitude. The same thing happened in Miami, too. The threat of LeBron leaving (or just pouting behind the scenes) may have cost him a few rings. Possibly. Who knows how successful they would have been in building a team slowly instead of quick fixes that are way too old and expensive to be sustainable. But it's a fun what if.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this. It's some must see tv. Can't wait to see what they get in return for Irving and how this season will play out for Lebron with a lower tiered roster.
 
B

Bread

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
It's incredible that in two separate times with the Cavs, Cleveland ruined any chance of long-term success by loading up on veterans to appeal to LeBron's win-now attitude. The same thing happened in Miami, too. The threat of LeBron leaving (or just pouting behind the scenes) may have cost him a few rings. Possibly. Who knows how successful they would have been in building a team slowly instead of quick fixes that are way too old and expensive to be sustainable. But it's a fun what if.
Click to expand...
When you have the best player in the league why would you not have a win now attitude? The idea of building a team slowly while Lebron James is nearing the end of his prime is just ridiculous.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Gilbert should trade LeBron to the Browns.

Bread said:
When you have the best player in the league why would you not have a win now attitude? The idea of building a team slowly while Lebron James is nearing the end of his prime is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Well, the move (if the Cavs were thinking long and shot-term) would have been to keep Wiggins. Would that have been so bad?
 
B

Bread

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
Gilbert should trade LeBron to the Browns.



Well, the move (if the Cavs were thinking long and shot-term) would have been to keep Wiggins. Would that have been so bad?
Click to expand...
Keeping Wiggins would have been a huge mistake. He can't defend, all he does is score and he does that inefficiently. If the Cavs had kept him they'd have 0 titles instead of 1.
 
F

FZZ

Banned
Bread said:
Keeping Wiggins would have been a huge mistake. He can't defend, all he does is score and he does that inefficiently. If the Cavs had kept him they'd have 0 titles instead of 1.
Click to expand...

I think they could have won in 2015 with Wiggins

I still believe Kyrie only got injured because his usage went up after K Love got injured

With Wiggins there and him not getting injured Kyrie probably would have been good to go for that entire series

But the world will never know
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
FZZ said:
I think they could have won in 2015 with Wiggins

I still believe Kyrie only got injured because his usage went up after K Love got injured

With Wiggins there and him not getting injured Kyrie probably would have been good to go for that entire series

But the world will never know
Click to expand...

Rookie Wiggins? I doubt it
 
B

Bread

Banned
Wiggins the prospect was an interesting fit for the Lebron led Cavs. People thought he'd be a top defender that allowed Lebron to coast on defense while providing some scoring spurts and spot up shooting. That's just not who he is though. He's a volume scorer, a poor man's Kyrie at SF. Love may not be a superstar but he is one of the few big men in the league that fit perfectly with Lebron because of his elite shooting abilities.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Anyone ever notice that during Lebron's entire career, his teammates always end up at these two points:

A) Betrayed by Lebron by him leaving or getting management to get rid of them
B) Leaving the team he's on to get away from him

The only difference between him and Kobe is the media covers for his destructive personality in the locker room.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Bread said:
Wiggins the prospect was an interesting fit for the Lebron led Cavs. People thought he'd be a top defender that allowed Lebron to coast on defense while providing some scoring spurts and spot up shooting. That's just not who he is though. He's a volume scorer, a poor man's Kyrie at SF. Love may not be a superstar but he is one of the few big men in the league that fit perfectly with Lebron because of his elite shooting abilities.
Click to expand...

Why do we assume Wiggins would have been the same player alongside LeBron? If LeBron wanted him to focus on defense and spot-up shooting, that's what we would have seen. Probably. But he definitely wouldn't be the ball-dominant volume shooter he is in Minnesota.

But my point was that when you trade your young players and draft picks, you're going to end up with an old, expensive team with poor long-term prospects. Granted, no one saw Golden State becoming a superteam, but ignoring depth and youth is always going to cost teams long term.

Bam Bam Baklava said:
The only difference between him and Kobe is the media covers for his destructive personality in the locker room.
Click to expand...

I can think of one other huge difference...
 
I

i3allistic

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Anyone ever notice that during Lebron's entire career, his teammates always end up at these two points:

A) Betrayed by Lebron by him leaving or getting management to get rid of them
B) Leaving the team he's on to get away from him

The only difference between him and Kobe is the media covers for his destructive personality in the locker room.
Click to expand...

he talk about his brand and image all the time, aint surprised what Stephen A. Smith said is true ...and Smith the biggest Bron dick rider too ....and all this does is make Lebron leaving Cleveland easier without taking a big hit on his image and brand
 
B

Bread

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
Why do we assume Wiggins would have been the same player alongside LeBron? If LeBron wanted him to focus on defense and spot-up shooting, that's what we would have seen. Probably. But he definitely wouldn't be the ball-dominant volume shooter he is in Minnesota.

But my point was that when you trade your young players and draft picks, you're going to end up with an old, expensive team with poor long-term prospects. Granted, no one saw Golden State becoming a superteam, but ignoring depth and youth is always going to cost teams long term.
Click to expand...
The idea that he'd somehow be a useful player that can defend and play efficiently and not just an overpaid volume scorer is pure speculation. The fact of the matter is that they traded young players and draft picks and ended up with a championship. I'm not sure why this is still an argument. They went win now and they won now.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Bread said:
The idea that he'd somehow be a useful player that can defend and play efficiently and not just an overpaid volume scorer is pure speculation. The fact of the matter is that they traded young players and draft picks and ended up with a championship. I'm not sure why this is still an argument. They went win now and they won now.
Click to expand...

It's not an argument. I said LeBron's teams have been in win-now mode since his career started which ruined any chance of sustained success (his teams are championship contenders for three or fours years before he bails because they're too old with no way to improve). You said he won a title (three of them, in fact). So, yeah, I think we understand things just fine.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
I mean at the point where the argument is "had Cleveland not traded Wiggins, he would have become an entirely different player" is so dependent on baseless hypotheticals that I'm not sure what there even is to discuss. If you want to argue that the Cavs made a mistake in trading Wiggins (despite winning a title and making 3 straight Finals) but completely ignore the kind of player Wiggins has become over his first three years (because I'm sure Tom Friggin Thibedau hasn't asked him to play D, because it's apparently as easy as just asking) because it doesn't fit the narrative, that strikes me as pretty disingenuous.
 
B

Bread

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
It's not an argument. I said LeBron's teams have been in win-now mode since his career started which ruined any chance of sustained success (his teams are championship contenders for three or fours years before he bails because they're too old with no way to improve). You said he won a title (three of them, in fact). So, yeah, I think we understand things just fine.
Click to expand...
We were talking about Wiggins and the Cavs so that's why I said 1 title.

But the discussion is that they should have tried to build for sustained success and I disagree because it's not something that comes easy. His teams will always be picking in the late first round and the chances those picks turn into anything are extremely low. What else could they have done? You mentioned keeping Wiggins but looking at who he is now that decision would have been a huge mistake. Veterans are cheap and willing to take pay and PT cuts to get a ring, that's really the only option you have when you're capped out.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Wiggins isn't very good at basketball. He's a poor mans Rudy Gay they're going to lock up to an absolutely fucking insane contract extension that will probably sink the franchise over the long haul.
 
K

KissDaRing

Banned
Bread said:
We were talking about Wiggins and the Cavs so that's why I said 1 title.

But the discussion is that they should have tried to build for sustained success and I disagree because it's not something that comes easy. His teams will always be picking in the late first round and the chances those picks turn into anything are extremely low. What else could they have done? You mentioned keeping Wiggins but looking at who he is now that decision would have been a huge mistake. Veterans are cheap and willing to take pay and PT cuts to get a ring, that's really the only option you have when you're capped out.
Click to expand...

Not making that KLove trade would've given the Cavs plenty of cap room to really fill out the roster. Lebron was so desperate for a third superstar that he never looks at a legit fit. He just wants that third big name alongside him and it's what puts that roster in cap hell. KLove could've been easily replaced on that squad with multiple players at a quarter to half the cost it took to acquire him.
 
K

KissDaRing

Banned
darkside31337 said:
Wiggins isn't very good at basketball. He's a poor mans Rudy Gay they're going to lock up to an absolutely fucking insane contract extension that will probably sink the franchise over the long haul.
Click to expand...

That's a stretch. Wiggins is a solid player. Compare him to Kobe at his age and he's ahead of him statistically. People shit on Wiggins because he's in a market with little TV coverage.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
KissDaRing said:
That's a stretch. Wiggins is a solid player. Compare him to Kobe at his age and he's ahead of him statistically. People shit on Wiggins because he's in a market with little TV coverage.
Click to expand...

He was the worst defender in the league last year who doesn't actually help his teammates on either end of the court. He's a volume scorer. They're banking on him making the other parts of his game not suck when theres been zero reason to think he'll suddenly be better at it.

An extension makes sense for the Wolves at the right price point... the max isnt it. He might be good some day but hes not right now. He's still young and maybe he'll develop some more.

The idea that the Cavs would have been better off with him the last 3 years doesn't make any sense.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
KissDaRing said:
That's a stretch. Wiggins is a solid player. Compare him to Kobe at his age and he's ahead of him statistically. People shit on Wiggins because he's in a market with little TV coverage.
Click to expand...

Well the league has changed since Kobe was a 2nd/3rd Year player. Perimeter wing defense, efficiency and shooting are far more important. Yes Wiggins would have been a more heralded player in 2001, so would Jahlil Okafor. That doesn't mean much. You can't just handwave very legitimate, constructive criticisms of Wiggins' game because you don't like them or they don't fit your narrative.

KissDaRing said:
Not making that KLove trade would've given the Cavs plenty of cap room to really fill out the roster. Lebron was so desperate for a third superstar that he never looks at a legit fit. He just wants that third big name alongside him and it's what puts that roster in cap hell. KLove could've been easily replaced on that squad with multiple players at a quarter to half the cost it took to acquire him.
Click to expand...

They'd be well over the cap even if you replaced Love's salary with Wiggins. It'd make no difference. The nba salary cap doesn't work the way you (and others) seem to think it does. www.spotrac.com is your friend.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/cap/
 
K

KissDaRing

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Well the league has changed since Kobe was a 2nd/3rd Year player. Perimeter wing defense, efficiency and shooting are far more important. Yes Wiggins would have been a more heralded player in 2001, so would Jahlil Okafor. That doesn't mean much. You can't just handwave very legitimate, constructive criticisms of Wiggins' game because you don't like them or they don't fit your narrative.



They'd be well over the cap even if you replaced Love's salary with Wiggins. It'd make no difference. The nba salary cap doesn't work the way you (and others) seem to think it does. www.spotrac.com is your friend.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/cap/
Click to expand...

Looking at the roster when Lebron 1st signed they wouldn't have been anywhere near the cap situation they're currently in if they never completed that Wiggins for Love deal
 
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