HDR makes a huge difference which unfortunately just can't be truly shown off on standard displays (so showing the difference tends to look artificial or insignificant). I have an LG 43" UH6500 for my desktop PC/consoles (mainly PC), and while basically it's HDR-compatible, I'm glad that I'll be able to play content without incompatibility issues (for now). We'll be going all-out w/ a nice OLED later for our living room, but not until prices come down.
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Why is HDR a thing now?
- Thread starter Anony
- Start date
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
They will be. The value isn't there for people. Its not forcing upgrade. Literally everything else you plug into your TV can stream Netflix, Amazon, etc. Chomecasts are throwaway gifts now at least $25 dollars.
The features are still there in TV's right now, but you're going to see them disappear as new models are released because there's no point. If people are not gaining value from the "smart" features, they manufactures are not going to invest the time and resources to create and maintain the software when people will just you any one of their other devices instead.
Skyfireblaze
Member
I guess this is the best thread to ask, will HDR PC monitors eventually be a thing? And if so, when can we expect sane mainstream prices?
family_guy
Member
Try and buy a 4k HDR tv today without apps. If anything they make devices like the Roku worthless unless you want those obscure apps that seem to fill the Roku channel selection.
Caayn
Member
I wish that this was the case. You can't buy a decent TV without any smart stuff anymore.
Although these features are nice to have, HDR can be achieved without them. HDR doesn't require a peak brightness of >500 nits nor does it require a FALD or OLED screen.
DreadfulOmen
Member
Thats the thing. 3d on some tvs looked like crap and on other tvs it looked awesome. It will be the same thing with hdr. Some tvs will display hdr amazingly well and other tvs wont do it justice. Then we will have a bunch of people complaining that hdr doesnt do anything.
The Albatross
Member
I think all HDMI cables support HDR, at least going by Geoffrey Morrison's "All HDMI Cables Are the Same" thesis.
I pinged him for some clarity specifically on HDMI, because last year HDMI manufacturers started selling "HDMI 2.0a" spec which seemed to be yet another scam by the expensive wire makers (Monster, etc), because these cables "Complied with the HDR spec," but they don't tell you that even if a cable doesn't comply with the spec, it still supports HDR.
I'm no expert though but Geoffrey Morrison seems to agree.
Beyond that I think an even bigger issue for gaming will be input delay and HDR. It varies wildly per set, and even some expensive, high quality sets have bad input lag
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-the-best-4k-screens-for-hdr-gaming
So lifelike 30fps,just WAOW!
EatinOlives
Member
HDR IS a thing and most everyone who has seen it in action on high-end televisions (I'm talking the ones that cost near or above 10 grand) say it's a much bigger jump in IQ than 4K is.
HOWEVER, HDR as it exists today in end-user layman consumer terms barely registers on the radar. MS and Sony are simply using it as marketing buzzwords because they want something to point to to say "hey our consoles now do X". HDR isn't a well matured technology at all, and not even TV manufacturers can agree on what the standards to HDR even are.
It's not something dumb and frivolous like 3D, so at least there's that. But do remember Sony also pushed for 3D on the PS3 as the "the next big thing" too. For the consumer it's just a matter of cutting through the bullshit and realizing "OK this is tech that'll eventually be the wave of the future" vs. "this is tech purely manufactured to sell TVs". HDR is the former, but it's not mature enough for anyone to really give a shit about it. Certainly don't think about it too much to pair with your $400 console. That's not the space that HDR is in right now.
HOWEVER, HDR as it exists today in end-user layman consumer terms barely registers on the radar. MS and Sony are simply using it as marketing buzzwords because they want something to point to to say "hey our consoles now do X". HDR isn't a well matured technology at all, and not even TV manufacturers can agree on what the standards to HDR even are.
It's not something dumb and frivolous like 3D, so at least there's that. But do remember Sony also pushed for 3D on the PS3 as the "the next big thing" too. For the consumer it's just a matter of cutting through the bullshit and realizing "OK this is tech that'll eventually be the wave of the future" vs. "this is tech purely manufactured to sell TVs". HDR is the former, but it's not mature enough for anyone to really give a shit about it. Certainly don't think about it too much to pair with your $400 console. That's not the space that HDR is in right now.
Using apps straight from the remote controller is both faster and easier. Case closed.
DreadfulOmen
Member
That article is pretty old, but i still wouldnt pay for a monster cable. With that said, i think the differences in hdmi 1.4 and 2.0 might come down to bandwidth limitations. For regular hd content it probably wouldnt matter though.
RealityCheque
Banned
Because selling TVs is a horrible business to be in. Every year the customer expects that your technology should be half the price that it was the year before.
So you have to continually come up with marginal (and often gimmicky) technologies to maintain your profits.
In short it's marketing bollocks. HD was a leap we all benefited massively from. Everything since is barely a half step in comparison.
So you have to continually come up with marginal (and often gimmicky) technologies to maintain your profits.
In short it's marketing bollocks. HD was a leap we all benefited massively from. Everything since is barely a half step in comparison.
family_guy
Member
High bandwidth HDMI cables are a must for 4k HDR, but they aren't expensive. Amazon and Monoprice sell them pretty cheap. The quality of the cable is more important for longer distances. The older 25+ ft HDMI cables that some people currently have aren't working as well as the newer certified ones when carrying 4k signals.
This sounds like something someone who hasn't seen good HDR in person would say.
potatohead
Member
Except that in the real world almost every TV now is a Smart TV.
alice_kiss_lara
Banned
Sony fired 1000 programmers, and hired 500 marketers
so when your PS4 is glitched after the 4.00 system update, you can come to forum and talk about HDR
so when your PS4 is glitched after the 4.00 system update, you can come to forum and talk about HDR
Hawk269
Member
Well the reason some of us in the fh3 thread were all about now, now, now is that fh3 is the first commercially released HDR game and many of us wanted to check it out and it unfortunate the demo did not have it.
HDR in movies is pretty amazing looking and can't wait to see how it impacts games.
ClayKavalier
Banned
The difference between an HDR and non-HDR TV is apparent, all the marketing you need is to show people.
killatopak
Member
3D was kind of a novelty while HDR really improves everything you see.
metareferential
Member
It has nothing to do with 3D "not selling" (it was just an option and was never pushed hard like 1080p was or 4k is).
People like to bash 3D just because they either can't see it properly or have experienced it in a wrong and dumbed down way (because outside of gaming - and for that I mean PC - there is virtually no compelling content in 3D if you exclude Avatar and Gravity, both of which don't come close to what 3D on a good display and with a good pc can be). "but glasses". Same stupid argument comes up everytime with VR and any other wearable tech.
4K HDR is just the new standard, just like 1080p was after 720p and other resolutions.
And guess what? 3D is still here, so...
Mr. Wedgewood
Member
Trinitron and WEGA
Standard for what? Honestly asking...since content is always an issue for these premium features.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
True, but...
Dolby Vision content should work, to an extent, on a 10-12 bit wide gamut monitor capable of higher than normal nits.
metareferential
Member
For hdmi specs from resolution to bandwidth, etc.
I know things are not yet fully set in stone, but the baseline is there.
Yes you get a popup notification telling you HDR is enabled for HDR supported content.
That's cool. Always wanted something like this.
This is complete and utter bullshit. 10-bit panels, high dynamic range and wide color gamut is not a "gimmick." Whether you're in art, animation, graphic design, video editing, photography, or just a lay person... Anyone who has been paying attention to display technology has been waiting for this for years as it is a true and measurable evolution of visual quality beyond "more pixels!"
I liken it to cameras were some manufacturers got into megapixel wars whereas the high-end market more sensibly got into the business of bigger and better sensors capable of capturing more light and data from a scene, thus taking higher quality photos (not just taking bigger crappier photos).
I don't agree with this at all. Smart TVs are standard, there are a bunch of apps which work better with your phone connected as a remote. LG tvOS is one of the best UIs on the market, having everything on your TV available without anything but a internet connection is extremely convenient. And it's convenience that sells products.
On the contrary, that tech is trivial to include and is now just as expected as HDMI ports. It's not going anywhere. There's even competition among providers to make sure their apps are included.
BTW HDR is hard to explain with words. I suggest curious folks try their best to watch some content. there's detail in color differences that outweighs resolution in terms of emotional impact. And movies like Mad Max, where the gamut is exaggerated, are absolutely hypnotic to watch.
For sure it's not a Gimmick. You are seeing content that looks much closer to real life.
Granted if PQ is not your thing or ever has, this is not for you.
edit: I don't know how much a Value PS4 Pro is for folks without the 4K HDR TVs. I don't know how committed they are to better frame rates.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I love all this only 'Fald' and 'OLED' can be called HDR ready....what utter bullshit, I've tested countless 4K Blu's, standard Blu's, Netflix 4K HDR and non HDR on edge lit LCD's, and I can tell you the HDR isn't going to waste, there's more to it than just huge peak brightness and massive contrast performance, the metadata alone gives people with HDR LCD's the ability to see things in scenes that is impossible with SDR.
That's a really cynical way of looking at it that's unfortunately really common around here. You could say the same thing about any innovation, like the introduction of color televisions when all we had was black and white. Or cars to replace horse drawn carriages. Or freezers to replace ice boxes and delivery. Or toilets to replace outhouses.
The way the market works is companies try to create something that people want and then offer an exchange. If they're right they succeed and grow, and if they're wrong they need to go back to the drawing board to find the next opportunity. It's not some hidden agenda, it's the explicit purpose of a market economy.
Games need to support it first and foremost. There should be a wave of HDR-enabled games and updates coming in the next few months.
General Lee
Member
If the panel doesn't reach the UHD Premium standard levels, it can be "HDR compatible", so in essence it'll just accept and tone map the HDR signal to what the display can handle, but it's not true HDR. Just like checkerboard rendering 4K just isn't the same as native 4K. Depending on the capabilities of the panel it might get close.
While there is HDR10 and Dolby Vision out there right now, DV is more of a superset, and both could easily co-exist. There's also Hybrid Log Gamma coming for broadcast content from BBC and NHK.
HDR10 is also getting dynamic metadata support in the future, which requires an HDMI update, as in HDMI 2.1. Sets out there right now only have 2.0 support, and whether it's possible to update them through firmware doesn't seem to be confirmed. If they can't be updated, just think of what it'll mean for all those early adopters buying their HDR sets and receivers with HDMI 2.0 now. There's no real future proofing right now.
As other have pointed out: HDR display technology is not the HDR photo effect.
Completely different things. We've been waiting for HDR TVs for 10 years, and they're finally here. It is the biggest jump in picture quality in a long time.
Completely different things. We've been waiting for HDR TVs for 10 years, and they're finally here. It is the biggest jump in picture quality in a long time.
tearsintherain
Member
Dumb question - is HDR something that would be visible via screen capture? ie if I take a game and its HDR enabled and I take a screen cap, then I take a screen cap with HDR off, would I notice a difference in the two pics or would the only way to tell the difference be in the actual display or faking HDR by retouching up the pic?
onken
Member
Dang I see, even brand new games like Deus Ex don't support it? Does it have any kind of performance hit?
Hmmmm. Good question. I don't know.
Marketing this for sure is going to be difficult.
HDR is very light on resources. Deus Ex will support it with a patch in November for PS4 Pro and probably PC.
I think Forza Horizon 3 and NBA 2K 17 could support it on PC much sooner as they are also HDR-enabled on Xbox One S.
The proper TV is needed to view crisp colorful detail. Trust me, anyone with a pulse will see the difference. You need a real HDR TV, real HDR implemented games or movies.
Chances are if you see something that claims to be HDR and it doesn't impress, 2 reasons. 1, its fake, or 2 your monitor is not set up to see it as intended.
It's like people don't seem to remember that in the pre-HD era, contrast and colors on screen were the true measures of picture quality, before we got into ever increasing pixel counts as the primary measure of quality. To give an example, Genesis was higher res than SNES but that hardly mattered since that negligible difference was far outweighed by the SNES' much larger color palette and number of colors on display at once.
Humans supposedly cannot see more than 8 million colors max, but the benefit of greater than 8-bit panels is that the image source will have a greater range of colors with finer gradients, resulting in much more vivid and lifelike imagery.
"Gaming" HDR and "TV" HDR are two completely different things.
In gaming and CGI, HDR isn't simply an "effect", it's a way of operating with a wide range of different light intensities during rendering so you can more accurately represent phenomena like light bleeding, reflections, translucency and the overall way light interacts with things in the real world, while non-HDR rendering operated solely with a limited range of colors that stopped at full white.
"TV" HDR is "simply" a set of specifications for a wider color spectrum, a higher color bitrate and a wider range of dark/bright contrast, an evolution of the standard we have been using roughly since the inception of color TV.
In gaming and CGI, HDR isn't simply an "effect", it's a way of operating with a wide range of different light intensities during rendering so you can more accurately represent phenomena like light bleeding, reflections, translucency and the overall way light interacts with things in the real world, while non-HDR rendering operated solely with a limited range of colors that stopped at full white.
"TV" HDR is "simply" a set of specifications for a wider color spectrum, a higher color bitrate and a wider range of dark/bright contrast, an evolution of the standard we have been using roughly since the inception of color TV.