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Amazon looking to build a second HQ in North America, will add 50k jobs

I REALLY hope they don't come to Austin.

You and me both. I was thinking about this the other day. I get that we're a tech hub and all that, but I don't think our city infrastructure could handle even more people moving in droves out here for a chance to work at Amazon HQ.
 

Korey

Member
In what ways is the city decaying? I walk around downtown everyday, so I'm sure I'm bias, but the amount of construction is staggering. Even the transformation in the last two years in pretty crazy.

New skyscraper coming: http://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...t-architecture-hudsons-development/663439001/

Old skyscraper being restored: https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/8/25/16202926/book-tower-restoration-video

Plenty of other stuff: https://detroit.curbed.com/maps/map-detroit-construction-development


Ugh post like yours really peeve me. ”City's decaying" with no shred of evidence.


Our decaying new arena:

No tech people are trying to move to Detroit.

Nobody cares about your one new skyscraper, all they imagine when they hear Detroit is:

Z3reV9O.jpg


Same goes for any "industrial revolution-esque" cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St. Louis, whatever.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
Tech people aren't trying to move to Detroit.

Nobody cares about your one new skyscraper, all they imagine when they hear Detroit is:

Same goes for any "industrial revolution-esque" cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St. Louis, whatever.

Goddamn, you're dumb. One skyscraper was an example. I'm not gonna list off every development project that's going on in Detroit. Actually here's a list nicely curated for you. https://detroit.curbed.com/maps/map-detroit-construction-development .. which you could've clicked in my initial post.

I hate to even dignify you with a response after you google "detroit ruin porn".

Detroit's startup scene is exploding and here are the numbers to prove it





Here's some tech shit happening downtown:
http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2017/10/10/google-downtown-detroit-birmingham/750979001/

https://venturebeat.com/2017/08/21/...-jobs-are-going-where-the-tech-companies-are/

https://www.recode.net/2015/2/12/11558956/15-startups-sparking-change-in-detroit

http://www.quickenloans.com/press-r...-work-in-technology-for-3rd-consecutive-year/

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ilbert-duggan-technology-innovation/97439840/

Then there's the aforementioned budding startup scene downtown along with the fairly established and growing scene in Ann Arbor.

Amazon's (small) existing presence: https://www.amazon.jobs/location/de...rt=relevant&location[]=detroit-michigan&cache

Oh look! Just yesterday an Ann Arbor startup received $70 mil at a valuation of $1 bil+ https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/18/duo-security-raises-70-million-at-a-valuation-north-of-1-billion/

We have good food too?
 
Goddamn, you're dumb. One skyscraper was an example. I'm not gonna list off every development project that's going on in Detroit. Actually here's a list nicely curated for you. https://detroit.curbed.com/maps/map-...on-development

I hate to even dignify you with a response after you google "detroit ruin porn". You're an idiot.

Here's some tech shit happening downtown:
http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...ham/750979001/

https://venturebeat.com/2017/08/21/r...companies-are/

https://www.recode.net/2015/2/12/115...nge-in-detroit

http://www.quickenloans.com/press-ro...secutive-year/

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...tion/97439840/

Then there's the budding startup scene downtown along with fairly established and growing scene in Ann Arbor.

Amazon's (small) existing presence: https://www.amazon.jobs/location/det...michigan&cache

I think you're missing the point. All he's saying is that's what people think when hear Detroit. He didn't say that's how the whole city actually is.

Nobody's saying that Detroit isn't attempting to revitalize the area, nor that it's a bad thing. All people are saying is that those efforts might do a decent job of attracting people in the area to comeback to the city to live or visit, but it's not going to do much to attract people from around the country to live there for a long time.

It's not a consideration for Amazon or any big tech firm because it's a city that needs too much work. There are simply better options.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
I think you're missing the point. All he's saying is that's what people think when hear Detroit. He didn't say that's how the whole city actually is.

Nobody's saying that Detroit isn't attempting to revitalize the area, nor that it's a bad thing. All people are saying is that those efforts might do a decent job of attracting people in the area to comeback to the city to live or visit, but it's not going to do much to attract people from around the country to live there for a long time.

It's not a consideration for Amazon or any big tech firm because it's a city that needs too much work. There are simply better options.

I guess I didn't realize Korey from NeoGAF was the voice of all people. If you would've read my posts I said I don't think we deserve it due to the awful mass transit alone.

The public opinion of Detroit has been changing over the last few years. It's not an "all people think of this way" type of thing. People that would want to work at Amazon, I'm assuming, are fairly tech savy. Detroit has been getting recognition in the tech world. So it's not hard to fathom a potential Amazon employee's opinion of Detroit is different than someone uneducated in rural Alabama.

Why I say potential Amazon employees may have a different opinion than the general population is due to articles like these:
Michigan's manufacturing past is fueling its tech future - excellent long form piece
Detroit is kicking Silicon Valley's ass in the race to build self-driving cars
Detroit's startup scene is exploding and here are the numbers to prove it
Here are the best startup cities in the Midwest
Black Girls Code receives $255,000 from General Motors to launch in Detroit
LG will build electric car parts in Detroit
An autonomous Ford Fusion will deliver Domino's in Michigan
Uber plans Detroit facility so it can collaborate with automakers
 

Magwik

Banned
I think you're missing the point. All he's saying is that's what people think when hear Detroit. He didn't say that's how the whole city actually is.

Nobody's saying that Detroit isn't attempting to revitalize the area, nor that it's a bad thing. All people are saying is that those efforts might do a decent job of attracting people in the area to comeback to the city to live or visit, but it's not going to do much to attract people from around the country to live there for a long time.

It's not a consideration for Amazon or any big tech firm because it's a city that needs too much work. There are simply better options.
I'd honestly be shocked if part of the city's proposal doesn't include infrastructure changes and public transportation advancements.
 
Decline in major industries? Source?
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/google-moving-suburbs-reviving-downtown-detroit-50395016
http://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ilbert-duggan-technology-innovation/97439840/
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/amazon-opening-corporate-office-in-detroit
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...to-move-150-employees-downtown-as-part-of-85m

That's just downtown. Then there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_metropolitan_Detroit . Really struggling to spot the decline in major industries. You seemed so sure, though, so mind linking me some articles?


And like I said, yes population has been declining for decades. So it's interesting that population is forecasted to grow: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...17/07/27/detroit-population-growth/104031902/

Something has to have caused the projected growth - could it be the revitalization of downtown?

I'm not arguing Detroit should be the frontrunner, I'm arguing we shouldn't be second from the bottom on CNBC's chart - which is what my initial question was about.

I think we probably shouldn't get it due to our abysmal mass transit alone.

But every other factor you or others have stated is just not very accurate (decline in population is accurate, but you're wrong about it affecting industry and you're not looking at the trend - we still have more people than plenty of cities on the list and growth is projected because of the already increasingly buzzing downtown developments). I can't wrap my head around the low airport ranking alone. We have one highest regarded airports in the nation. Apparently U of M is just out of reach to be considered a factor although it's part of our metro area? The chart doesn't make sense to me.

I would recommend actually looking into numbers as opposed to just reading sensational news articles that cherry pick numbers to tell the story they want. Of course Detroit is growing, I mean after all they were arguably one of the top cities in the world to be hit by the 2008 economic collapse, so it's not exactly difficult to go up when you've hit absolute rock bottom. You have tech firms entering the space, largely in thanks to pushes from Quicken Loans management team, but it's certainly not major offices and tech employees will not see major career advancements in afterthought locations like Detroit.

If you look at the top employers most have not even fully recovered their pre-recession top line revenues. Net income has recovered but even then they will see major erosion with stiff competition in the next few years from automative starting to take over on the West coast (Toyota (which I suppose is now Texas), Tesla, Uber and Lyft). GM had layoffs last week even. And then there's the city of Detroit which isn't even net income positive after filing for bankruptcy in 2013. Who wants to live in a city in which the government is still struggling financially? Add in your crime issues and it's pretty easy to see why Detroit is not a place most people want to be.

But hey, Twitter decided to open an office of about 100 employees so it's gotta be booming. I mean after all, Twitter is crushing it right now.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
I would recommend actually looking into numbers as opposed to just reading sensational news articles that cherry pick numbers to tell the story they want. Of course Detroit is growing, I mean after all they were arguably one of the top cities in the world to be hit by the 2008 economic collapse, so it's not exactly difficult to go up when you've hit absolute rock bottom. You have tech firms entering the space, largely in thanks to pushes from Quicken Loans management team, but it's certainly not major offices and tech employees will not see major career advancements in afterthought locations like Detroit.

If you look at the top employers most have not even fully recovered their pre-recession top line revenues. Net income has recovered but even then they will see major erosion with stiff competition in the next few years from automative starting to take over on the West coast (Toyota (which I suppose is now Texas), Tesla, Uber and Lyft). GM had layoffs last week even. And then there's the city of Detroit which isn't even net income positive after filing for bankruptcy in 2013. Who wants to live in a city in which the government is still struggling financially? Add in your crime issues and it's pretty easy to see why Detroit is not a place most people want to be.

But hey, Twitter decided to open an office of about 100 employees so it's gotta be booming. I mean after all, Twitter is crushing it right now.

Oh cool! I wasn't even aware Twitter was here. Thanks for the heads up.

Michigan's manufacturing past is fueling its tech future - excellent long form piece
Detroit is kicking Silicon Valley's ass in the race to build self-driving cars
Detroit's startup scene is exploding and here are the numbers to prove it
Here are the best startup cities in the Midwest
Black Girls Code receives $255,000 from General Motors to launch in Detroit
LG will build electric car parts in Detroit
An autonomous Ford Fusion will deliver Domino's in Michigan
Uber plans Detroit facility so it can collaborate with automakers

Can you explain those numbers from the TechCrunch article about best startup cities in the midwest to me while you're at it?

I'll reiterate. I don't think we deserve an Amazon HQ2 because of out shit transit alone. But you're wrong about other things. Tesla laid off 300 employees last week, are they failing?

We're recovering just about as well as possible from bankruptcy:
Detroit gets second credit rating boost in two years

Obviously Chicago is vastly superior city. This is an interesting read, though. Not saying bankruptcy is certain in Chicago's future, but something to ponder.
Detroit pitch for Amazon: We've already been to bankruptcy court
 

Apath

Member
I read through all of those articles, and I still have no idea why they'd choose Detroit outside of wanting to provide a public service.

Obviously I want them to come to Chicago, but I think Baltimore or Philly could be cool too.
 

Korey

Member
I guess I didn't realize Korey from NeoGAF was the voice of all people. If you would've read my posts I said I don't think we deserve it due to the awful mass transit alone.

The public opinion of Detroit has been changing over the last few years. It's not an "all people think of this way" type of thing. People that would want to work at Amazon, I'm assuming, are fairly tech savy. Detroit has been getting recognition in the tech world. So it's not hard to fathom a potential Amazon employee's opinion of Detroit is different than someone uneducated in rural Alabama.

No, it hasn't... is what I'm trying to tell you. Your perspective living in Detroit does not reflect that of people outside of it. People outside of Detroit do not have "changing opinions" of Detroit. To be honest, they don't even think about Detroit other than to visualize the image I linked above.

What you're saying may very well be true... about the nice buildings being built. Doesn't change the fact that your population is still declining. All the articles you linked are about companies moving their offices from nearby cities in Michigan, to Detroit. People from the coastal states are not trying to move to Detroit. That's the reality of the situation.

Also, I'm in California. This is my perspective for you.

I'll gladly invite any other non-Detroit person to chime in and disagree with me in that they actually have "positive changing opinions" of Detroit over the past few years.
 
I don't get all the 'we are afraid of growth' BS i keep reading on about. Your city will grow regardless of Amazon if it's already attractive enough for other industries. That's not a bad thing.

I just hope cities realize that it takes more than a tax break to make your city, you know, attractive. You need actual investments in safe and livable streets, build housing, establish educational facilities, have culture, and have great research institutions. Many of these B-tier cities seem to think that making a slick advertising campaign and promises of tax breaks is all you need. Don't fall for that trap.
 

Magwik

Banned
No, it hasn't... is what I'm trying to tell you. Your perspective living in Detroit does not reflect that of people outside of it. People outside of Detroit do not have "changing opinions" of Detroit. To be honest, they don't even think about Detroit other than to visualize the image I linked above.

What you're saying may very well be true... about the nice buildings being built. Doesn't change the fact that your population is still declining. All the articles you linked are about companies moving their offices from nearby cities in Michigan, to Detroit. People from the coastal states are not trying to move to Detroit. That's the reality of the situation.

Also, I'm in California. This is my perspective for you.

I'll gladly invite any other non-Detroit person to chime in and disagree with me in that they actually have "positive changing opinions" of Detroit over the past few years.
The issue isn't really a Detroit one though. The population of the surrounding cities have also been slowly going down parallel with it, though the numbers aren't nearly as bad. People are leaving Michigan and the area in general, because well there isn't much here for the younger generations.
 

The Argus

Member
It's Newark. Guys, they're gonna pick Newark. East coast + close to tons of fulfillment warehouses + NYC proximity (customers and partner headquarters) + NJ whoring itself out yet again for a boom.
 
I guess I didn't realize Korey from NeoGAF was the voice of all people. If you would've read my posts I said I don't think we deserve it due to the awful mass transit alone.

The public opinion of Detroit has been changing over the last few years. It's not an "all people think of this way" type of thing. People that would want to work at Amazon, I'm assuming, are fairly tech savy. Detroit has been getting recognition in the tech world. So it's not hard to fathom a potential Amazon employee's opinion of Detroit is different than someone uneducated in rural Alabama.

Your hyperdefensiveness is apparent. And yes, I read your posts. Like you said, Detroit shouldn't be in the running. Shouldn't that be the end of it?

And look, yes, things are changing for Detroit, but as it stands now the city very much still has an image problem. The population is still declining, so yeah, many people still have some issue with the city for some reason or another. And I would assume that Detroit isn't very high on the list of potential prospects for tech majors. I mean I'm one of them, it isn't for me nor anyone I know in the tech fields. That's not to say it's awful or anything, but it's just not a top choice. I'm sure that's changing though, but there's still a long way to go, decades even. That's the point.

Detroit is doing good things, we get it. Cool, but this isn't a "why Detroit is getting better" thread.

I'd honestly be shocked if part of the city's proposal doesn't include infrastructure changes and public transportation advancements.

Sure, but they're aspects that are currently so far behind other cities that it just throws Detroit out of the running unless Amazon is wanting to try some experiment or something.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
No, it hasn't... is what I'm trying to tell you. Your perspective living in Detroit does not reflect that of people outside of it. People outside of Detroit do not have "changing opinions" of Detroit. To be honest, they don't even think about Detroit other than to visualize the image I linked above.

What you're saying may very well be true... about the nice buildings being built. Doesn't change the fact that your population is still declining. All the articles you linked are about companies moving their offices from nearby cities in Michigan, to Detroit. People from the coastal states are not trying to move to Detroit. That's the reality of the situation.

Also, I'm in California. This is my perspective for you.

I'll gladly invite any other non-Detroit person to chime in and disagree with me in that they actually have "positive changing opinions" of Detroit over the past few years.

Like I said. That may be your perspective. I don't understand how that could be the perspective of someone that has average adult level reading comprehension and reads things like these:
Michigan's manufacturing past is fueling its tech future
Here are the best startup cities in the Midwest

Now you bring up population. I addressed this earlier. Population has been declining for six or seven decades. It's projected to grow for the first time since the 1950s. Why is that?

I'm not saying Detroit should win the bid. I'm saying your perception on how EVERYONE perceives Detroit is off.
 
It's Newark. Guys, they're gonna pick Newark. East coast + close to tons of fulfillment warehouses + NYC proximity (customers and partner headquarters) + NJ whoring itself out yet again for a boom.

The only thing Newark has going for it over any other NE city is the tax breaks. That's probably not enough.
 
Can you explain those numbers from the TechCrunch article about best startup cities in the midwest to me while you're at it?
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As someone born and raised in the Midwest, what exactly is the pride of this statement? Aside from Chicago, what exactly are the crown jewels you are competing against? Minneapolis and Kansas City? There's a reason coastal towns are stretching at the seams with people, talent, and companies, because that's where people want to be. No number of Techcrunch articles is going to convince someone from Los Angeles that Detroit is the "next big thing" because they are not naive to your limited career opportunities, dreadful winters, high crime, and low diversity.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
Your hyperdefensiveness is apparent. And yes, I read your posts. Like you said, Detroit shouldn't be in the running. Shouldn't that be the end of it?

And look, yes, things are changing for Detroit, but as it stands now the city very much still has an image problem. The population is still declining, so yeah, many people still have some issue with the city for some reason or another. And I would assume that Detroit isn't very high on the list of potential prospects for tech majors. I mean I'm one of them, it isn't for me nor anyone I know in the tech fields. That's not to say it's awful or anything, but it's just not a top choice. I'm sure that's changing though, but there's still a long way to go, decades even. That's the point.

Detroit is doing good things, we get it. Cool, but this isn't a "why Detroit is getting better" thread.

Sure, but they're aspects that are currently so far behind other cities that it just throws Detroit out of the running unless Amazon is wanting to try some experiment or something.

I'm not trying to make it a "why Detroit is getting better" thread. I started posting here because I was curious how CNBC calculated Detroit's airport ranking. That evolved because people were posting objectively false things. If someone tells me something that is wrong, I try to inform.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
As someone born and raised in the Midwest, what exactly is the pride of this statement? Aside from Chicago, what exactly are the crown jewels you are competing against? Minneapolis and Kansas City? There's a reason coastal towns are stretching at the seams with people, talent, and companies, because that's where people want to be. No number of Techcrunch articles is going to convince someone from Los Angeles that Detroit is the "next big thing" because they are not naive to your limited career opportunities, dreadful winters, high crime, and low diversity.

Jesus. There's no pride. Amazon is looking for something not on the west coast (according to speculation). That leaves the midwest and the east coast. Wouldn't it be wise to compare the top cities in the midwest and the east coast? I'm not saying Detroit is the next anything. I"m saying it's not as shitty as being described. I'm saying there are opportunities, crime is not high downtown, and lol at low diversity??

And in the decades to come, when California is charred by fire or has no water, it might be nice to be surrounded by five pretty big lakes.

By low diversity do you mean Detroit has too many people of color? Can't really wrap my head around what you mean there.
 

Magwik

Banned
Your hyperdefensiveness is apparent. And yes, I read your posts. Like you said, Detroit shouldn't be in the running. Shouldn't that be the end of it?

And look, yes, things are changing for Detroit, but as it stands now the city very much still has an image problem. The population is still declining, so yeah, many people still have some issue with the city for some reason or another. And I would assume that Detroit isn't very high on the list of potential prospects for tech majors. I mean I'm one of them, it isn't for me nor anyone I know in the tech fields. That's not to say it's awful or anything, but it's just not a top choice. I'm sure that's changing though, but there's still a long way to go, decades even. That's the point.

Detroit is doing good things, we get it. Cool, but this isn't a "why Detroit is getting better" thread.



Sure, but they're aspects that are currently so far behind other cities that it just throws Detroit out of the running unless Amazon is wanting to try some experiment or something.
While I disagree and think the city does have merit and a chance to move forward with Amazon, I do recognize that it would take a lot of Goodwill to invest into it. Hell, I'm still blaming the governor for fucking up the chance for the city and state to be a New Hollywood.
 
While I disagree and think the city does have merit and a chance to move forward with Amazon, I do recognize that it would take a lot of Goodwill to invest into it. Hell, I'm still blaming the governor for fucking up the chance for the city and state to be a New Hollywood.

I'm not saying Detroit has no merit, just that it would be one hell of an investment.

Though it would be a fascinating study to see how a massive company could transform a struggling (relatively) city versus HQ2 going to a city that's already prospering.

Jesus. There's no pride. Amazon is looking for something not on the west coast (according to speculation). That leaves the midwest and the east coast. Wouldn't it be wise to compare the top cities in the midwest and the east coast? I'm not saying Detroit is the next anything. I"m saying it's not as shitty as being described. I'm saying there are opportunities, crime is not high downtown, and lol at low diversity??

And in the decades to come, when California is charred by fire or has no water, it might be nice to be surrounded by five pretty big lakes.

Well, there's also the South. Austin, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Raleigh are all major contenders.

And really with that Cali comment?
 
I'm not saying Detroit has no merit, just that it would be one hell of an investment.


And really with that Cali comment?

While insensitive it is a reality of climate change that California is going to pay a harsh penalty in the coming decades. Something that giant, smart, forward thinking companies gave to research and forecast for their future prospects.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
I'm not saying Detroit has no merit, just that it would be one hell of an investment.

Though it would be a fascinating study to see how a massive company could transform a struggling (relatively) city versus HQ2 going to a city that's already prospering.



Well, there's also the South. Austin, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Raleigh are all major contenders.

And really with that Cali comment?

I agree, those are good contenders. Dumb of me to omit the south. You did bring up population. Only the Texas cities have a higher population than Detroit. I know Austin has more cache in the tech scene than Detroit, do the others? I know they all have scenes, obviously, but I'll have to look at how they compare to Detroit's.

From my limited knowledge of other cities (like some of you guys with Detroit), only Austin really stands out as a tech hub. But then we face the population problem again. While over a million, it's still less than Houston and Dallas. Is there a minimum population? If it's 500k, that eliminates Raleigh and Atlanta, but Detroit's in the mix still.

Going by the criteria you mentioned previously - what tech majors think of the current scene and population - Detroit isn't at the bottom of either of those lists, nor at the top.

Like you said, Detroit shouldn't be in the running. Shouldn't that be the end of it?
Maybe, but if the answer is yes then we shouldn't be talking about Raleigh and Atlanta. My point is there's not one stat we can look at. It's the amalgamation of things which is why I think Detroit should be in the conversation. If mass transit is weighted highly in Amazon's consideration, then Detroit should be disqualified. Here's an example of a recent tech major grad asking reddit where they should work (spoiler: they chose Austin, but because your circle of friends doesn't have people asking about Detroit doesn't mean other tech majors aren't).

Oh, and the Cali comment. I'm not wishing that or anything. I don't have a ton of faith, especially with our current administration, that we'll combat climate change until it really starts to destroy things. That won't be good for Cali. What do you mean "really with Cali comment"? The videos I've seen of the wild fires this past month alone is devastating. If conditions that breed that type of damage continue to worsen, it makes sense to consider. At least I think so. Do the lawn restrictions laws in Cali not raise any concern about water to you? It's not offensive, it's just factual.

I didn't mean it to be insensitive. This is charred land in California in 2017: https://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/s084856612.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=770 ... What will 2037 look like?
 

Apath

Member
Like I said. That may be your perspective. I don't understand how that could be the perspective of someone that has average adult level reading comprehension and reads things like these:
Michigan's manufacturing past is fueling its tech future
Here are the best startup cities in the Midwest

Now you bring up population. I addressed this earlier. Population has been declining for six or seven decades. It's projected to grow for the first time since the 1950s. Why is that?

I'm not saying Detroit should win the bid. I'm saying your perception on how EVERYONE perceives Detroit is off.
No, I would say the overwhelming majority of people perceive Detroit exactly as described. I think you are very defensive for that exact reason.

Increasing the city's population by 60,000 over 23 years doesn't seem like a major accomplishment to me, but I could just be very ignorant on this topic. The US population is projected to grow by ~18% over the next 23 years, while your article cites a ~9% increase in population for Detroit over the same period of time.

The article also mentions several reasons for a population increase, with only one of those being younger individuals moving to the city.

I get your point that the general public perception of Detroit is not entirely accurate, but even based on your arguments and what is being linked in this thread, there is nothing that is substantially changing my mind.

I do know Dan Gilbert is beginning to invest a lot of resources into the Detroit area, which is the most optimistic news I am aware of for the city.
 
I agree, those are good contenders. Dumb of me to omit the south. You did bring up population. Only the Texas cities have a higher population than Detroit. I know Austin has more cache in the tech scene than Detroit, do the others? I know they all have scenes, obviously, but I'll have to look at how they compare to Detroit's.

From my limited knowledge of other cities (like some of you guys with Detroit), only Austin really stands out as a tech hub. But then we face the population problem again. While over a million, it's still less than Houston and Dallas. Is there a minimum population? If it's 500k, that eliminates Raleigh and Atlanta, but Detroit's in the mix still.

Going by the criteria you mentioned previously - what tech majors think of the current scene and population - Detroit isn't at the bottom of either of those lists, nor at the top.


Maybe, but if the answer is yes then we shouldn't be talking about Raleigh and Atlanta. My point is there's no one stat we can look at. It's the amalgamation of things which is why I think Detroit should be in the conversation. If mass transit is weighted highly in Amazon's consideration, then Detroit should be disqualified.

Oh, and the Cali comment. I'm not wishing that or anything. I don't have a ton of faith, especially with our current administration, that we'll combat global warming until it really starts to destroy things. That won't be good for Cali. What do you mean "really with Cali comment"? The videos I've seen of the wild fires this past month alone is devastating. If conditions that breed that type of damage continue to worse, it makes sense to consider. At least I think so. Do the lawn restrictions laws in Cali not raise any concern about water to you? It's not offensive, it's just factual.

Actually Austin proper isn't quite to 1million citizens yet but by the 2020 census they'll be right at or VERY close to hitting 1 million. Bringing in a company like Amazon would probably put Austin over the 1million population line.
 
Jesus. There's no pride. Amazon is looking for something not on the west coast (according to speculation). That leaves the midwest and the east coast. Wouldn't it be wise to compare the top cities in the midwest and the east coast? I'm not saying Detroit is the next anything. I"m saying it's not as shitty as being described. I'm saying there are opportunities, crime is not high downtown, and lol at low diversity??

And in the decades to come, when California is charred by fire or has no water, it might be nice to be surrounded by five pretty big lakes.

By low diversity do you mean Detroit has too many people of color? Can't really wrap my head around what you mean there.

You realize diversity goes beyond just the color of your skin, right?
 

KiN0

Member
Honestly, I'd like them to pick a distressed area/ If you want to prove you are a progressive company, go to a place where the people aren't rich and is already gentrified.

Yeah, I heard a story on npr about this one little steel town that practically sent an sos as a bid. It really got me thinking that Amazon-and most tech companies for that matter-could really put their hq anywhere in the country and people will follow.

I'd really like to see Amazon surprise me, but I expect they'll choose a place that's basically already "established".
 

Nitsuj23

Member
You realize diversity goes beyond just the color of your skin, right?

You realize when companies report on diversity they do so by the color of skin and gender, right?

https://pxlnv.com/blog/diversity-of-tech-companies-by-the-numbers-2016/

https://www.amazon.com/b?node=10080092011

https://www.apple.com/diversity/

And aside from skin color. How does Detroit have low diversity? If we include Dearborn then we have one of the most diverse metro areas you could possibly imagine. Dearborn has the largest population of Arab American citizens. Detroit is the city with highest number of African Americans. And I'm being told there's low diversity...

Using absolute population numbers for a city is useless. Metro population is a more useful comparison.
I agree. I didn't bring it up, others did when saying why Detroit wasn't a viable option. Detroit area is #12 CSA and #14 MSA. It's not topping charts, but it's above Amazon's current HQ area of Seattle (and below Atlanta & the Texas areas - although above Raliegh).

Actually Austin proper isn't quite to 1million citizens yet but by the 2020 census they'll be right at or VERY close to hitting 1 million. Bringing in a company like Amazon would probably put Austin over the 1million population line.
Yup, my bad. It is close, but not quite there. Around 950k according to Google.

Amazon isn't going to choose a fixer-upper, they need a city that's ready to go on day one. Cities like Detroit would be such a gamble, because then Amazon is relying on a lot of contingencies. "If we move here, will such and such happen?" Every mid-tier city that's lacking something makes this project become like hosting the Olympics, it will take a decade to get everything up and running.
This is most likely the case. I think a bigger, more established city will get it. Dan Gilbert did try to mitigate that risk with this offer. I doubt that's very enticing to Amazon, but might be something to consider. There are currently more than a few empty buildings too due to the discussed drop in population. Fun fact, Detroit is the only city in the United States to have a population grow beyond 1 million and then fall below that figure.. Actually that's kind of a sad fact.
 

Ecotic

Member
Amazon isn't going to choose a fixer-upper, they need a city that's ready to go on day one. Cities like Detroit would be such a gamble, because then Amazon is relying on a lot of contingencies. "If we move here, will such and such happen?" Every mid-tier city that's lacking something makes this project become like hosting the Olympics, it will take a decade to get everything up and running.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Toronto "proposal" gonna be hard to top.

When you look at page 24, 42-45

they project the labour cost and taxes alone are so low that the next closest city would need $500 million in tax breaks per year just to compare lmao

All Toronto offered was basically land.

and interesting note... people who wrote it up say that even if not successful, the book was worth it as an advertisement to all international business.
 
You realize when companies report on diversity they do so by the color of skin and gender, right?

that's not true, they report on what the US uses in the census: White, black, Asian, American Indian, etc, and these do not equate to color of skin. There's Asians darker than some black people. There's American Indians lighter than some white people.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
that's not true, they report on what the US uses in the census: White, black, Asian, American Indian, etc, and these do not equate to color of skin. There's Asians darker than some black people. There's American Indians lighter than some white people.

Sorry for phrasing.

I said people of color originally. The person who questioned me said there’s more to diversity than color of skin. The term I used is ubiquitously understood to be non-white. That encompasses every group you mentioned in the US census.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

Given the wording of your post, can you see how it’s easy to use the word color “incorrectly”.

When people criticize tech companies for not employing enough black people, they don’t mean dark Asians.
 
My bad for thinking white and black are colors.

Someone said Detroit has low diversity. 83% of our population is black. It’s like the opposite of what you think of when someone says “low diversity” in America whose total black population is what, 13-14%. Given that there’s a drastic difference in makeup of Detroit compared to the US as a whole, it’s funny to say it’s low diversity. In a strict sense I suppose that’s right - 83% is a high number, it’s just not what you think of when someone says low diversity in the United States (most people think a lot of white people when you say low diversity).

I agree with your second point, but do not your first. "White" and "black" used as "races" is misleading when, as stated before, there are Asians darker than [some] black people and lighter than [some] white people. It's completely off topic to the thread, so I'll stop there. PM me if you want to discuss further
 
Amazon isn't going to choose a fixer-upper, they need a city that's ready to go on day one. Cities like Detroit would be such a gamble, because then Amazon is relying on a lot of contingencies. "If we move here, will such and such happen?" Every mid-tier city that's lacking something makes this project become like hosting the Olympics, it will take a decade to get everything up and running.

Zappos kinda tried it with downtown Vegas. I wonder what the results are. I'm genuinely curious. I know they also got bought by Amazon.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
No, I would say the overwhelming majority of people perceive Detroit exactly as described. I think you are very defensive for that exact reason.

Increasing the city's population by 60,000 over 23 years doesn't seem like a major accomplishment to me, but I could just be very ignorant on this topic. The US population is projected to grow by ~18% over the next 23 years, while your article cites a ~9% increase in population for Detroit over the same period of time.

The article also mentions several reasons for a population increase, with only one of those being younger individuals moving to the city.

I get your point that the general public perception of Detroit is not entirely accurate, but even based on your arguments and what is being linked in this thread, there is nothing that is substantially changing my mind.

I do know Dan Gilbert is beginning to invest a lot of resources into the Detroit area, which is the most optimistic news I am aware of for the city.

You mentioned Baltimore, Philly, and Chicago. I can see why Philly or Chicago would be preferred over Detroit. What's the pitch for Baltimore? I don't know much about it other than what I've seen on The Wire. I'll have to do some research.

I'm just thinking of this now after hours of discussion, but I wonder if the increased frequency of powerful hurricanes is a deterrent when considering Texas cities. Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Boston, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Toronto, Nashville, etc. are all appealing in the sense they seem to be at the lowest risk of being affected by climate change.
 

Apath

Member
You mentioned Baltimore, Philly, and Chicago. I can see why Philly or Chicago would be preferred over Detroit. What’s the pitch for Baltimore? I don’t know much about it other than what I’ve seen on The Wire. I’ll have to do some research.

I’m just thinking of this now after hours of discussion, but I wonder if the increased frequency of powerful hurricanes is a deterrent when considering Texas cities. Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Boston, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Toronto, Nashville, etc. are all appealing in the sense they seem to be at the lowest risk of being affected by climate change.
It's more that Baltimore/DC area. Ive been very impressed with their public transportation, they have multiple large airports, lots of government tech, and lots of space. I also have some ties to the area so it appeals to me.
 
The NYC proposal Is pretty interesting to read.

The 4 named locations are Midtown West, Lower Manhattan, Long Island City, and of course Brooklyn (tech triangle?).

The proposal breaks down each location in great detail.
 

Nitsuj23

Member
It's more that Baltimore/DC area. Ive been very impressed with their public transportation, they have multiple large airports, lots of government tech, and lots of space. I also have some ties to the area so it appeals to me.

Makes sense. Skimming the Wiki it seems nice... definitely need to visit at some point in my life. Baltimore seems similar to Detroit in a sense. Close in population, large metro area (Baltimore's is bigger by a few mil, but Amazon's metro requirement was 1 mil+ so easily satisifed by both). Baltimore wins in public transport, hands down. Governement tech is seemingly irrelevant to Amazon, unless I'm missing something. Airports seem to be a wash - although I could be wrong.

Another thing to ponder is the country's immigartion policy going forward and how it'll affect foreign workers. One thing that I think could be really appealing about Detrot (could also be a non-factor) is it has an international border. Windsor partnered with Detroit for the bid. Any immigration issues that arise in the US could be nullified by that connection. It's the one thing Detroit has that a lot of cities just don't. We don't have capable mass transit, but we're capable of building it. Other cities don't have an international border, and will never have it, not something you can build obviously. Like I said, this could be a complete non-factor, but interesting to consider.
 

Draxal

Member
The only thing Newark has going for it over any other NE city is the tax breaks. That's probably not enough.

airport (not anybody's favorite but still there); and its part of the nyc tristate which is still more important that any other metro area in the boswash + audible (which the poster you quoted mentioned)

I'm not expecting it either but its not as simple as that.
 

Zoe

Member
Actually Austin proper isn't quite to 1million citizens yet but by the 2020 census they'll be right at or VERY close to hitting 1 million. Bringing in a company like Amazon would probably put Austin over the 1million population line.
The metro population is at 2 million. The Austin bid was actually a collaboration with every city and county in the metro area.
 
Missouri submitted 3 Bids total.

1 was from Kansas City
1 was from St. Louis
1 was from the State of Missouri offering St. Louis, Columbia, and Kansas City with a Hyper Loop running between them.

Also it turns out both Governors in Missouri and Illinois submitted the STL bid.
 

Ottaro

Member
Actually Austin proper isn't quite to 1million citizens yet but by the 2020 census they'll be right at or VERY close to hitting 1 million. Bringing in a company like Amazon would probably put Austin over the 1million population line.

The metro population is at 2 million. The Austin bid was actually a collaboration with every city and county in the metro area.

Yeah, Austin proper near 1 mil, Austin metro area over 2 mil. Still low, relatively speaking, but damn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas, every time I see that +19% it blows my mind. I can't imagine what the city will be like in ten years if that growth holds. It's going to leap frog over a dozen cities.
 
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