Support NeoGAF

Reallink · Feb 27, 2013

Deadly Cyclone said:
So I won't be buying until this fall so things will change, but is this what you guys are recommending?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panason...HDTV/5025164.p?id=1218599349389&skuId=5025164

For $1500 (which is right at my budget) it looks amazing. 3D and internet ready.

There is no GT this year, so by Fall you'll be looking at the ST60 or VT60 as comparable models. FWIW, Panasonic's are also no longer the defactco gaming displays either beginning with the XX50's. They increased lag significantly over prior model years, with ~40ms of lag in Game Mode (decent speed, but horribly inaccurate PQ--lots of processing enhancements locked on with no user toggles, very low and dynamic gamma). All other modes are at least 56-60+ms. For comparison the XX30's were ~32ms in all modes and the X10's were in the low 20's. The combination of low lag and PQ made Panasonic's the go-to recommendation, but unless they make significant improvements with the XX60's, I'd also start considering Samsung's PDP's. Their larger screens have had very similar PQ the past couple years while also offering more accurate Game and PC modes. You will have to check detailed reviews and impressions once all the new models are out.

Darth Kupi · Feb 27, 2013

LordCanti said:
No, it won't work at all.

Hmm, I have'nt been keeping up with tech for the past few years.

Why cant it work?

Don't 3dtvs need to display 120HZ to get 60Hz 3d anyway? Or is there something to this tech I'm missing.

Gbraga · Feb 27, 2013

Since next gen will be 1080p, I'll just stick with my current TV, and when I replace it I'll probaly get another 1080p TV (if they still exist)

LordCanti · Feb 27, 2013

Darth Kupi said:
Hmm, I have'nt been keeping up with tech for the past few years.

Why cant it work?

Don't 3dtvs need to display 120HZ to get 60Hz 3d anyway? Or is there something to this tech I'm missing.

1080p 3D isn't 60hz per eye (it's 30).

Edit: Thinking about it...it may be 24hz per eye and not even 30.

There may be some 120hz monitors that will accept 60hz per eye (at 1080p) over the new HDMI spec, but I haven't looked into it. There aren't any TV's though.

CloakedPuppet · Feb 27, 2013

I've always been happy with my Samsung LCD - I think the picture is great if not fantastic. Never had one issue with IQ or input lag. Then again, I'm not insane. Some of the elitist snobbery that you find in these threads is borderline laughable.

That said, I believe my next TV will more than likely be a OLED if it's anywhere near affordable. If not that, then I'll maybe step up to plasma.

mkenyon · Feb 27, 2013

Darth Kupi said:
Just out of curiosity, can 60Hz 3D monitors/tvs be used as 120Hz 2D monitors/tvs?

Like do they just straight up work like that or do have to fiddle with drivers.

3D Monitors can (mostly) work as 120Hz monitors. You need a DP or Dual Link DVI, and need to make sure it is in fact a 120Hz/144Hz display.

Darth Kupi · Feb 27, 2013

LordCanti said:
1080p 3D isn't 60hz per eye (it's 30).

There may be some 120hz monitors that will accept 60hz per eye (at 1080p) over the new HDMI spec, but I haven't looked into it. There aren't any TV's though.

Whaa?!

Whats the point of 30 Hz 3d then?(for gaming anyway)

That pretty much makes it a 3d bluray watching device.

LordCanti · Feb 27, 2013

Darth Kupi said:
Whaa?!

Whats the point of 30 Hz 3d then?(for gaming anyway)

That pretty much makes it a 3d bluray watching device.

Googling, I think I was wrong about that. It's actually 24hz per eye @1080p/3D apparently. That's to fit the 24hz film spec I assume. So, yeah, it's for film watching and not game playing. I think the consoles output 720p/60fps in 3D mode.

mkenyon said:
3D Monitors can (mostly) work as 120Hz monitors. You need a DP or Dual Link DVI, and need to make sure it is in fact a 120Hz/144Hz display.

Aah, is there support for that? My mistake.

amrod · Feb 27, 2013

too bad no plasma's are 47" ish (the max I have room for)... Wish I had the room for a 50" but don't in this room, so don't know what I'm going to buy

Lunchbox · Feb 27, 2013

I got that playstation 3d tv for a 100 bucks last black friday

it works......think it's led. 3d is trash though

spannicus · Feb 27, 2013

HoodWinked said:
Sean Johnstone

Yup like me on twitter and follow me on facebook

Young Nobleman Of Sadness · Feb 27, 2013

Wow. Love this threads.

So, the best thing in gaming is Plasma and the panasonic models no less...

I read that some people are really disappointed with the gaming results of Tv's like the samsung Es8000 and high class Leds like this one.. which I find disturbing...

I was planning to get myself a 40"-47" Tv, I was planning to get myself a Sony or Samsung model with 200hz, full hd, but upon viewing those reactions and how everyone encourage Plasmas Tv's for gaming, i'm in doubt.

What about Tv's that have been in a showcase of a mall? I assume plasmas are not recommended, but what about less, do they have a longer life span than lcds and plasmas?

amrod · Feb 27, 2013

Young Nobleman Of Sadness said:
I was planning to get myself a 40"-47" Tv, I was planning to get myself a Sony or Samsung model with 200hz, full hd, but upon viewing those reactions and how everyone encourage Plasmas Tv's for gaming, i'm in doubt.

Let me know if you find a good 47" plasma

knitoe · Feb 27, 2013

Young Nobleman Of Sadness said:
Wow. Love this threads.

So, the best thing in gaming is Plasma and the panasonic models no less...

I read that some people are really disappointed with the gaming results of Tv's like the samsung Es8000 and high class Leds like this one.. which I find disturbing...

I was planning to get myself a 40"-47" Tv, I was planning to get myself a Sony or Samsung model with 200hz, full hd, but upon viewing those reactions and how everyone encourage Plasmas Tv's for gaming, i'm in doubt.

What about Tv's that have been in a showcase of a mall? I assume plasmas are not recommended, but what about less, do they have a longer life span than lcds and plasmas?

No. Sony local dimming LCD, like HX950, are better as I stated in an earlier post. The problem is local dimming LCD TVs are usually $1000 more than their same class plasma version.

Jtrizzy · Feb 27, 2013

there is pretty much no hope for 120hz tv's from my understanding. Although some people trying to overclock their 3dtv's now with Titan cards, it's a built in feature. 4k will push the bandwidth limit, but there is nothing pushing higher refresh rates other than niche gamers like us. Even if HFR stuff from the Hobbit took off, which it's not, it'd still be 48hz.

I think I'm just gonna pick up the Asus 27" 120hz 1080p 3d tn panel, and keep my VT25 until something really amazing comes out.

mkenyon · Feb 28, 2013

LordCanti said:
Aah, is there support for that? My mistake.

Yep yep. There are some 3D Monitors that are passive. But, the proper ones are all 120Hz. I can't game on anything else now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236313

Mastperf · Feb 28, 2013

knitoe said:
No. Sony local dimming LCD, like HX950, are better as I stated in an earlier post. The problem is local dimming LCD TVs are usually $1000 more than their same class plasma version.

Which reviewers rated that tv higher than the high-end plasmas?

Lighthouse · Feb 28, 2013

Inspired by this thread and with next gen on the horizon, I decided to upgrade from my 40" Samsung 720p lcd to a panasonic plasma.
Looking around for deals, sears had the 50" st50 for $799. Called best buy and they have 1 left in stock. Get there guy looks around for about 10 minutes, nothing.

Welp seems they dont have any panasonic plasmas and wont be getting any more until the new line ships.. After talking a bit seems they have an open box 55" st50 priced at $1200. Honoring the original price match they drop $200 off, so for $1000 I got a 55" st50.

Beside the increase in size the biggest difference that popped out to me is how fluid everything looks. Its absolutely breath taking the difference in quality from my old set.

Deadly Cyclone · Feb 28, 2013

Hmm, so this fall I should be able to get a 55" or 60" plasma that's 3D and maybe has internet capability for $1500 or so?

eddfromtheriver · Feb 28, 2013

jett said:
I'm looking for an LED TV(not interested in plasmas for a variety or reasons). I don't notice input lag at all on my led monitor, will I have issues with an LED TV?

None that i´ve noticed, i have a LED and i love the colors and brightness of it, i don´t get all the love plasmas get, i dislike the reflective surface and lack of pop to the colors, but you know what they say about opinions. ( not hating, it´s just my particular opinion)

spannicus · Feb 28, 2013

Lighthouse said:
Inspired by this thread and with next gen on the horizon, I decided to upgrade from my 40" Samsung 720p lcd to a panasonic plasma.
Looking around for deals, sears had the 50" st50 for $799. Called best buy and they have 1 left in stock. Get there guy looks around for about 10 minutes, nothing.

Welp seems they dont have any panasonic plasmas and wont be getting any more until the new line ships.. After talking a bit seems they have an open box 55" st50 priced at $1200. Honoring the original price match they drop $200 off, so for $1000 I got a 55" st50.

Beside the increase in size the biggest difference that popped out to me is how fluid everything looks. Its absolutely breath taking the difference in quality from my old set.

Congrats on your new baby. I used to live off of Best Buys open box deals

spannicus · Feb 28, 2013

Deadly Cyclone said:
Hmm, so this fall I should be able to get a 55" or 60" plasma that's 3D and maybe has internet capability for $1500 or so?

did you see the link i put up for you?

Punkster_NY · Feb 28, 2013

Nothing beats OLED. But not just any old OLED, this badass mofo right here.

Deadly Cyclone · Feb 28, 2013

spannicus said:
did you see the link i put up for you?

Yeah, looks good to me. Based on the "new model" talk though I was wondering what the best for the money will be in 6-7 months. 60" plasmas now are a bit over budget, so I was curious.

superfamicom · Feb 28, 2013

Sharp LED Aquos LC-40SE1

40" 1080p

I got this TV just last Sunday and it will be delivered This coming Saturday.
I got it used, for a really cheap deal. It sounds like it's not bad, but not great from the reviews but I just wanted a big TV to use as my PC monitor/movie watching.

I searched around but can't find the equivalent North American model. Anyone know?

spannicus · Feb 28, 2013

Deadly Cyclone said:
Yeah, looks good to me. Based on the "new model" talk though I was wondering what the best for the money will be in 6-7 months. 60" plasmas now are a bit over budget, so I was curious.

I could dig it. So you're set on Plasma?

Deadly Cyclone · Feb 28, 2013

spannicus said:
I could dig it. So you're set on Plasma?

Not necessarily, but that's what the majority of Gaf seems to recommend.

torontoml · Feb 28, 2013

Everyone keeps saying Panasonic plasma, is the Samsung that much worse? As in the Panasonic VT series and the 8000 series for Samsung. There seems to be a significant price difference between each companies top models.

Pimpbaa · Feb 28, 2013

Hope I don't have to wait forever for an affordable 40"ish OLED

Alligatorjandro · Feb 28, 2013

I've got a Samsung 46" 3D LED that Im pretty happy with.

Melchiah · Feb 28, 2013

jstevenson said:
So much wrong here.

Change your settings to eliminate the input lag. Image retention can happen, but it's not permanent, be careful and you're fine. i played like 300 hours of SWTOR in 5 weeks on my Panny Plasma with only minor issues. In full color programming you couldn't see any of the image retention and it was gone within a couple hours.

Lucentto said:

There is no best TV type, just get whatever works for you.

Click to expand...

Also wrong.

Those are exactly the reasons why I personally wouldn't even consider plasmas. I shouldn't be forced to be careful with technology, that's supposed to provide care-free entertainment for me. Nor should I be forced to live with minor issues; image retention that may or may not stay for a while after gaming, when I'd like to watch a movie. I'll always choose the easier way, eventhough it might not be precisely on the same quality level.

That being said, the difference between their picture quality and input lag is minimal nowadays, so saying someone makes a wrong decision if they don't buy plasma is kinda harsh and untrue. I bet many people outside this forum wouldn't even notice the difference between them.

LEDs tend to be more expensive though, but IMHO the pros outweight the cons.

Raistlin · Feb 28, 2013

Reiko said:
Plasma and CRT also has the edge when handling 60fps motion.

There is little discernable difference at 60fps from what I've tested. Temporal resolution is quite high.

golem · Feb 28, 2013

Pimpbaa said:
Hope I don't have to wait forever for an affordable 40"ish OLED

Same. I kind of want a new TV but the upgrades wouldnt be a big jump from my Panny Plasma. Maybe I should just go for a projector or something.

spannicus · Feb 28, 2013

golem said:
Same. I kind of want a new TV but the upgrades wouldnt be a big jump from my Panny Plasma. Maybe I should just go for a projector or something.

Go for the projector since you already have a good TV, its hard to go back once you go projector though, especially CoD multiplayer hooked to home theater or a racing sim. You can never have too many toys.

Mastperf · Feb 28, 2013

Raistlin said:
There is little discernable difference at 60fps from what I've tested. Temporal resolution is quite high.

I've found the opposite in my tests. It varies by content, but there's still noticeably more blur on lcd than plasma and especially crt. The actual motion resolution test results back this up with more than twice the motion resolution on average. It's actually likely more than that since most lcd's seem to be only capable of 300 lines of motion resolution with motion interpolation disabled.

EhrgeizVII · Feb 28, 2013

Reallink said:
There is no GT this year, so by Fall you'll be looking at the ST60 or VT60 as comparable models. FWIW, Panasonic's are also no longer the defactco gaming displays either beginning with the XX50's. They increased lag significantly over prior model years, with ~40ms of lag in Game Mode (decent speed, but horribly inaccurate PQ--lots of processing enhancements locked on with no user toggles, very low and dynamic gamma). All other modes are at least 56-60+ms. For comparison the XX30's were ~32ms in all modes and the X10's were in the low 20's. The combination of low lag and PQ made Panasonic's the go-to recommendation, but unless they make significant improvements with the XX60's, I'd also start considering Samsung's PDP's. Their larger screens have had very similar PQ the past couple years while also offering more accurate Game and PC modes. You will have to check detailed reviews and impressions once all the new models are out.

Bah, is this true? I ordered a P50VT50 last night since it's supposed to be the best TV of 2012. I figured it would be great for gaming.

Reclaimer · Mar 1, 2013

EhrgeizVII said:
Bah, is this true? I ordered a P50VT50 last night since it's supposed to be the best TV of 2012. I figured it would be great for gaming.

My VT30 is incredible for gaming, with very very low lag last I did the photo test (30ms or less while in THX/Custom mode with all sorts of nice calibration, game mode is about the same with less calibration options.) I haven't heard that gaming performance has been decreased in any later released models.

If anyone is making claims like that, they should post a source. (I doubt they've personally done a lag photo test on every new Panny display...)

Don't worry, you will LOVE your VT50.

scurker · Mar 1, 2013

Deadly Cyclone said:
So I won't be buying until this fall so things will change, but is this what you guys are recommending?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panason...HDTV/5025164.p?id=1218599349389&skuId=5025164

For $1500 (which is right at my budget) it looks amazing. 3D and internet ready.

I just picked up the 60" GT50 for $1700 a few weeks ago and it's amazing. Both the Wii U and PS3 looks pretty amazing on it, so I don't have any complaints. The xx60 models are supposed to come out this month, so if you can find stock you can get a pretty decent deal on xx50.

Reallink said:
There is no GT this year, so by Fall you'll be looking at the ST60 or VT60 as comparable models. FWIW, Panasonic's are also no longer the defactco gaming displays either beginning with the XX50's. They increased lag significantly over prior model years, with ~40ms of lag in Game Mode (decent speed, but horribly inaccurate PQ--lots of processing enhancements locked on with no user toggles, very low and dynamic gamma). All other modes are at least 56-60+ms. For comparison the XX30's were ~32ms in all modes and the X10's were in the low 20's. The combination of low lag and PQ made Panasonic's the go-to recommendation, but unless they make significant improvements with the XX60's, I'd also start considering Samsung's PDP's. Their larger screens have had very similar PQ the past couple years while also offering more accurate Game and PC modes. You will have to check detailed reviews and impressions once all the new models are out.

Are you sure about this? I think that depends on the model. Apparently the ST50 has about 16ms of lag, while the GT50 has 25-30ms of lag in game mode. The older models are supposed to be faster, but I don't think that's a significant enough of a difference.

Here's some of the stuff that I found:
GT50: 24-30ms
GT50: 24-30ms, ST50: 16ms
GT50: 30ms

Honestly, I don't feel like 1-2 frames of input lag is going to make that much of a difference, but I'm also not a twitch gamer. I'm very happy with my GT50 and don't have any lag complaints.

Melchiah · Mar 1, 2013

scurker said:
Are you sure about this? I think that depends on the model. Apparently the ST50 has about 16ms of lag, while the GT50 has 25-30ms of lag in game mode. The older models are supposed to be faster, but I don't think that's a significant enough of a difference.

Here's some of the stuff that I found:
GT50: 24-30ms
GT50: 24-30ms, ST50: 16ms
GT50: 30ms

Honestly, I don't feel like 1-2 frames of input lag is going to make that much of a difference, but I'm also not a twitch gamer. I'm very happy with my GT50 and don't have any lag complaints.

Well that's not very different from some of the LCD/LED Bravia's 30-40ms input lag in game mode.

darkstar0155 · Mar 1, 2013

superfamicom said:
Sharp LED Aquos LC-40SE1

40" 1080p

I got this TV just last Sunday and it will be delivered This coming Saturday.
I got it used, for a really cheap deal. It sounds like it's not bad, but not great from the reviews but I just wanted a big TV to use as my PC monitor/movie watching.

I searched around but can't find the equivalent North American model. Anyone know?

i have a 46" sharp LED Quatron (the ones with the yellow color band along with the standard RGB)

For non-gaming quality, its one of the best tv's ive seen. My best friend who is also a huge gamer came over to my house and bought one right after he saw mine. Its so crisp and clear that it some people think its actually 3d at first.. it just looks so clean.

as to the gaming aspect, there can be some input lag depending on the mode you have it set in. There is a game mode that fixes the input lag but the pic quality decreases. However, i have messed with some of the other modes and got it to have no lag with a good picture quality, just not as good as if it was on the standard mode.

impirius · Mar 1, 2013

Speaking of Panasonic plasmas, I'm thinking of picking up the $700 P55UT50 from Costco. Anyone have experience with the UT50 line? The input lag DB puts the 50" model at 39ms, which is good enough for me.

Reallink · Mar 1, 2013

scurker said:
I just picked up the 60" GT50 for $1700 a few weeks ago and it's amazing. Both the Wii U and PS3 looks pretty amazing on it, so I don't have any complaints. The xx60 models are supposed to come out this month, so if you can find stock you can get a pretty decent deal on xx50.

Are you sure about this? I think that depends on the model. Apparently the ST50 has about 16ms of lag, while the GT50 has 25-30ms of lag in game mode. The older models are supposed to be faster, but I don't think that's a significant enough of a difference.

Here's some of the stuff that I found:
GT50: 24-30ms
GT50: 24-30ms, ST50: 16ms
GT50: 30ms

Honestly, I don't feel like 1-2 frames of input lag is going to make that much of a difference, but I'm also not a twitch gamer. I'm very happy with my GT50 and don't have any lag complaints.

Yea I'm reasonably confident. Those are cloned timer tests you posted, which are notorious for wild variations in timing. I'm not going to say the dedicated lag testing device is bulletproof just yet, but I'd be inclined to trust it over cloned timers for now. All of the XX50 Panasonics seem to report ~40ms in Game Mode. The EU variants may even be a little slower at ~45-47ms (ST50, VT50, UT50). AVForums went back and updated most of their reviews to reflect the more accurate timings, but it seems they missed that old GT50 one you linked. Remember those values are in Game Mode, the more accurate modes are at least 1 frame slower, possibly more.

scurker · Mar 1, 2013

Reallink said:
Yea I'm reasonably confident. Those are cloned timer tests you posted, which are notorious for wild variations in timing. I'm not going to say the dedicated lag testing device is bulletproof just yet, but I'd be inclined to trust it over cloned timers for now. All of the XX50 Panasonics seem to report ~40ms in Game Mode. The EU variants may even be a little slower at ~45-47ms (ST50, VT50, UT50). AVForums went back and updated most of their reviews to reflect the more accurate timings, but it seems they missed that old GT50 one you linked. Remember those values are in Game Mode, the more accurate modes are at least 1 frame slower, possibly more.

Gotcha. I've been playing in custom mode and I haven't really noticed any extreme lag. I'd understand that less lag is better but my GT50 is certainly within my tolerance levels for what I play.

krae_man · Mar 3, 2013

I ended up grabbing this bad boy.

It didn't come with any glasses, but thanks to the Playstation 3D TV tanking, the glasses for that are super cheap and they work on all Sony 3D TV's.

Deus Ex Machina · Mar 3, 2013

DLP Projector

LukeTim · Mar 3, 2013

Deus Ex Machina said:
DLP Projector

I would totally go for a projector if I could afford a 1080p LED lit one.

I couldn't justify the expense on a projector where I am going to have to replace the really expensive bulb all the time.

Projectors are where it's at, though. Definitely the best choice, if viable.

Deus Ex Machina · Mar 3, 2013

LukeTim said:
I would totally go for a projector if I could afford a 1080p LED lit one.

Optima HD91 - 1080p LED coming out this September

cube444 · Mar 3, 2013

ShineALight said:
Panasonic Plasma until OLEDs become affordable.

This

undercoverb0ss · Mar 3, 2013

LukeTim said:
I would totally go for a projector if I could afford a 1080p LED lit one.

I couldn't justify the expense on a projector where I am going to have to replace the really expensive bulb all the time.

Projectors are where it's at, though. Definitely the best choice, if viable.

Owning a projector for the last ~6 years I tend to have to replace the bulb every 2 years.

chixdiggit · Mar 3, 2013

Am I the only one that prefers LED over Plasma? I bought a Panasonic Plasma last year and it just does not hold up to my Samsung LED. The plasma has better blacks but that's about it. The color and sharpness on the LED kick the shit out of the plasma. Do people champion the plasma because of it's cheaper price? I mean I did pay a bit more for the LED but reading all these threads I was expecting the cheaper plasma to be better.

Support NeoGAF

Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Pride of Iowa State

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Pride of Iowa State

Banned

Member

Pride of Iowa State

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Post Count: 9999

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads