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The Jer · Jul 24, 2017

I respectfully disagree.

The changes have made PvP way better. There is less craziness with 4v4 and I don't feel like there are only grenades and supers all the time. I've been playing Destiny for three years. I jumped on for Destiny 1 Crucible last night and didn't play very long because I felt like it was all supers and grenades. I had about five instant deaths in a row from supers. I went back to the D2 beta today and loved it. I think the recharge for grenades and supers could be tiny bit faster, but not by much. The recharge time is almost perfect. There needs to be a larger FOV. Also, there needs to be a better power ammo solution.

PvE on the other hand needs several changes from the beta. Faster ability recharge times and more power ammo drops are the big ones.

orborborb · Jul 24, 2017

here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

bosseye · Jul 24, 2017

I'm not much of a fan of D1 pvp, I forced myself to Rank 3 Crucible and would occasionally grind iron banner but it was never my thing.

So the lower player count exposes my flaws and for some reason I find it a lot harder to win in 1 on 1 situations than I did in D1, so I die all the time.

Reminds me of Trials which was the least fun I've ever had in multiplayer in any game ever. Ever!

Stripper13 · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

Wow. This tier list is something else.

robotrock · Jul 24, 2017

Stripper13 said:
Wow. This tier list is something else.

Yeah I'm confused if they actually liked DOOM 2016's multiplayer

border · Jul 24, 2017

Destiny 2 PVP feels like it's catered towards the people who hated 1 hit kills and thought it was cheap when they died to a Super attack. But those elements were what made Destiny interesting and appeal to a broad audience. It kinda feels like Bungie has abandoned all the people that enjoyed those crazy random elements, in favor of a different audience that wants a more challenging and balanced PVP mode. The problem is that the more challenging and balanced PVP becomes, the less people want to engage with it. The people who enjoyed crazy, chaotic PVP are left out in the cold but the people that enjoyed a stiffer, more stringent model may sign on.

ZehDon · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

A thoroughly explained and well presented wrong opinion.

Defuser · Jul 24, 2017

El Sloth said:
I should also mention that I stopped playing regularly with the release of The Taken King (for reasons unrelated to the game).

I've been playing quite a bit of the Destiny 2 Beta lately and while the shooting itself still feels great, the matches themselves have lost some of the over the top hectic action I fell in love with in the original. I feel this is in large part thanks to both character abilities like grenades taking significantly longer to recharge and to the uniform 4v4 that will be standard for all crucible gametypes. I get that a lot of people didn't like the so-called "grenade spam" that'd happen, especially in the first fight of a game, but I feel like the new charge times are overkill. In my opinion, it really takes away a lot of the personality of the different classes leaving their double jumps as the biggest defining feature. Supers coming around on average only once per game in quickplay feels especially lame.

I for sure don't feel like a super powered undead Space Wizard fighting other weirdly murderous super heroes anymore.

While I think 4v4 is a really good idea for competitive, I think it truly sucks that there aren't any (last I checked) planned 6v6 or 3v3 modes. Variety is good! The spice of life even! 6v6 games with supers, grenades, and blinking everywhere were crazy and fun!

Another major bit contributing to the Less Fun is that characters and weapon/armor loadouts have also become simpler and consequently more boring. Really, the fact that all the cool secondary weapons from Destiny 1 (save for pistols) are now consolidated under the heavy category is the absolute lamest thing. I get that Bungie wants weapons like shotguns, fusion rifles, and sniper rifles to be game changers and part of the whole meta in controlling the heavy ammo spawns, but... as someone who really loved using all of those, being able to only briefly use them a few times per game sucks pretty hard. I do enjoy the fights over the heavy ammo spawns in competitive and appreciate the thinking behind it, but not enough to not be able to rock out with cool guns like the Lord of Wolves or the Pocket Infinity. Neither of which were the best guns, but were always fun to use.

I should also mention: I understand the logic for PvE where they wanted to address how people would often feel peer pressured into using primaries with elemental burns for everything since they were just... objectively the better choice. Especially the raid guns (RIP Fatebringer ;_;7 ).

I do recognize that there were always folks who hated how shotguns dominated things for a bit, how certain maps devolved into sniper alleys, disliked being one shot by a fusion rifle, and who really hated the blink + shotgun combo amongst other things. So perhaps I'm in the minority on all this and this is just the logical conclusion of what the majority of Destiny fans wanted.

So basically you are part of the problem that plague Taken King and Rise of Iron meta which is why Bungie made this changes in Destiny 2.
Special weapons with 1 to 2 hit kill capabilties shouldn't in any business of acquiring ammo for it so easily to be used. In the end people are just clutching special weapons to the point it became their primary weapon.

All this talk about various combinations possibilities still devolves into getting a weapon with specific perk that have an edge over others which soon alot of people will also have the same setup.

Grenade abilities spam is also a problem, nobody likes to constantly face against skip grenades,lightning grenades,stickies,dot being spammed in their direction.

Bungie did the right thing in D2 which is promoting gunplay which the fucking primary weapon that you are supposed to use like in D1.

Futhermore this a beta and not the latest update so grenade and supers cooldowns can be tweak.

Salty Rice · Jul 24, 2017

Yeah the PVP changes are fucking terrible.

I lost all faith in Bungie to fix this franchise. They try to fix it in the wrong corners.

Magwik · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

You are actually objectively wrong on many levels and should feel bad.
There should be some sort of multiplayer therapy for opinions this wrong.

Stripper13 · Jul 24, 2017

border said:
Destiny 2 PVP feels like it's catered towards the people who hated 1 hit kills and thought it was cheap when they died to a Super attack. But those elements were what made Destiny interesting and appeal to a broad audience. It kinda feels like Bungie has abandoned all the people that enjoyed those crazy random elements, in favor of a different audience that wants a more challenging and balanced PVP mode. The problem is that the more challenging and balanced PVP becomes, the less people want to engage with it. The people who enjoyed crazy, chaotic PVP are left out in the cold but the people that enjoyed a stiffer, more stringent model may sign on.

There's a nice middle ground to be found. D1 was on the extreme end of one shot bullshit, which also amplified issues such as latency and matchmaking.

D2 isn't perfect, but it's nice to be able to feel like a badass with power weapons and Supers, while making the moment to moment gameplay more considered and fair - which also translates to more fun for a lot of people.

broony · Jul 24, 2017

I had a lot of fun in the d2 beta's pvp. Probably more than I had in d1. I think they achieved their goal of making the crucible more understandable. Fights feel fair without some randown shit one shotting you out of the blue. If you are killed by an ability or super or heavy then it's usually properly telegraphed to you and often the grenade, punch or heavy shot is not the one and only thing that contributed to your death. I can't think of an instance in the beta where I have walked around a corner to die instantly with no warning.

Syf · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
A+
Crysis 2

D
Counterstrike

oh

AllIsOneIsNone · Jul 24, 2017

Both games (or game and beta) could easily be twice as fun if there were dedicated servers. It's not 2007, Bungie.

I think the gameplay is just as good as the first, and a lot of other stuff is still up in the air. Not a fan of the control map though...it's just not interesting.

Trace · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

I'm amazed you actually managed to almost get this entire list backwards. That takes dedication.

RespectThySole · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

One of the worst lists I've ever seen

GasProblem · Jul 24, 2017

I never played Destiny 1.

I enjoyed the Crucible in this beta, especially when I learned how to read the radar and a got a feel of the map. Didn't feel like the recharge time of my grenade or special took too long. I feel different about the super though. Don't like how everyone gets it around the same time at the end of the match. Should be spread out more. Make kills and captures etc give you more charge for your super. Also feel like the recharge time of the power ammo could be upped a bit. I'm fine with 4v4, I mean it takes me less then 10 seconds to find an enemy. And it gives me space to run away and recharge after a fight.

In PvE the cooldown time of your nades and super definately needs to go down though, and there needs to be more power ammo.

I probably won't raid that much since I don't have a group of friends that play Destiny, but I am looking forward to doing strikes, patrols, adventures and the Crucible, and playing football at the farm. I'll probably get Destiny 2 and CoD WW2 to satisfy my shooter itch for pretty much all of 2018.

Grinchy · Jul 24, 2017

I found it to be an unbalanced shitfest in the first one where nobody used anything other than shotguns, supers, and heavy weapons the whole time. The changes they made have more more interested, if anything.

KJRS_1993 · Jul 24, 2017

I really like the changes they've made.
It feels a lot more strategic than it did before, where you position yourself and push with your teammates really matters. The support shields and healing rifts add an additional layer on top of that as well.

Also, your weapon selection feels like it matters a lot more thanks to the higher time-to-kill and lack of special ammo. Auto rifles, SMG's and sidearms are completely viable now, unlike before where they were pointless as a shotgun would just 1 hit kill you every time.

It takes some serious getting used to because of how different it is, but I think it's a huge improvement.

Bollocks · Jul 24, 2017

Didn't even touch the PvP. 4v4 lol. Even Counterstrike in 1999 had more players.

Also because 4v4 is a fucking dumb decision, we never asked for this.

Want to hop into PvP with your raid group?
Bungie:

darkwing · Jul 24, 2017

isn't the beta several months old build? maybe the new build is more fun

El Sloth · Jul 24, 2017

Defuser said:
So basically you are part of the problem that plague Taken King and Rise of Iron meta which is why Bungie made this changes in Destiny 2.
Special weapons with 1 to 2 hit kill capabilties shouldn't in any business of acquiring ammo for it so easily to be used. In the end people are just clutching special weapons to the point it became their primary weapon.

All this talk about various combinations possibilities still devolves into getting a weapon with specific perk that have an edge over others which soon alot of people will also have the same setup.

Grenade abilities spam is also a problem, nobody likes to constantly face against skip grenades,lightning grenades,stickies,dot being spammed in their direction.

Bungie did the right thing in D2 which is promoting gunplay which the fucking primary weapon that you are supposed to use like in D1.

Futhermore this a beta and not the latest update so grenade and supers cooldowns can be tweak.

That's others problem if they want to worry about min/maxing their guns, not mine. I did experiment and I enjoyed it very much. I was never bothered by grenades tbh and can't really recall many instances of 'spam'. I dunno, my team and I had access to all the same abilities the other team did. It just wan't an issue to me.

I agree that green ammo was always too easy to come by, but I think the power ammo solution is the extreme on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Sure, I'll gladly be part of the problem. Despite not playing either of those.

Grinchy said:
I found it to be an unbalanced shitfest in the first one where nobody used anything other than shotguns, supers, and heavy weapons the whole time. The changes they made have more more interested, if anything.

See, but I remember a time when handcannons were king and another when pulse rifles dominated.

KillLaCam · Jul 24, 2017

They want an esport instead of a chaotic turn your brain off game. Which sucks because the 1st one was just fun even with the ridiculous SBMM. I'm not trying to sweat with a team in every game lol

RespectThySole said:
One of the worst lists I've ever seen

By far

Chronospherics · Jul 24, 2017

I think 4 vs 4 only is great but they should have matched it by making strikes and raids 4 vs 4 only. You should be able to hop between a wide variety of modes without kicking a friend out.

Stripper13 · Jul 24, 2017

Bollocks said:
Didn't even touch the PvP. 4v4 lol. Even Counterstrike in 1999 had more players.

Also because 4v4 is a fucking dumb decision, we never asked for this.

Want to hop into PvP with your raid group?
Bungie:

4v4 felt much better than the usual 6v6 shitfests in D1.

Freeman76 · Jul 24, 2017

You've played one mode on a small fraction of the maps. Get real, you have no idea what other modes are in store in the final release.

I cannot believe the amount of bitching around this tiny BETA.

People need to get a grip, wait for the final release before you make threads whining about how it isnt what you want.

For all we know there could be a permanent mayhem playlist ffs.

Wiitardation · Jul 24, 2017

Like the first game, Destiny 2 will be a PVE only affair for me. 4v4 control and Shaxx being a borderline shout caster is embarrassingly bad.

Far superior PVP to be had elsewhere (Overwatch, Splatoon 2, R6 Siege, PUBG)

Wiitardation · Jul 24, 2017

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

Nice bait.

GlamFM · Jul 24, 2017

The opposite for me.

Loved the PvP - for the first time.

Bubble Walrus · Jul 24, 2017

I reallly miss early Destiny Crucible. Map variety (Big and Small) Tanks and Pikes. Have great memories of matches with vehicles on maps like First Light. Felt like a true successor to Halo, back then.

GlamFM · Jul 24, 2017

Epcotman said:
I reallly miss early Destiny Crucible. Map variety (Big and Small) Tanks and Pikes. Have great memories of matches with vehicles on maps like First Light. Felt like a true successor to Halo, back then.

Maps like first light? Wasn't that actually the only one?

Or am I forgetting something?

Nydius · Jul 24, 2017

The Jer said:
I jumped on for Destiny 1 Crucible last night and didn't play very long because I felt like it was all supers and grenades.

I don't understand this sentiment because outside of Mayhem, Iron Banner and Trials, I've never felt this way. The start of a match usually devolves into grenade spam but with the modes that are level-normalized, the cooldowns are pretty slow. In an average Control match you're lucky if you get two supers by the time the match is drawing to an end. Pretty sure I never got more than one full super in any given standard Crucible Clash or Rumble match unless I was extremely lucky.

Compared to other big AAA FPS games Destiny 1's time to kill in PVP modes was much slower (with exception to the special modes listed above). Compared to CoD or Battlefield or Battlefront, I always felt like being seen first wasn't an immediate death sentence unless someone had a god roll shotguns or were highly skilled with shotgun sliding or blink-shotgunning. The time to kill in D2 beta's PVP is SO slow that it's just boring.

Ninja Kn1ght · Jul 24, 2017

Based on the beta, I am a little concerned about that. The two-primary system makes for less weapon variety, abilities are rare and supers take most of a match to charge. It's taken some of the personality out of the game for me. I still enjoyed it and I'm hyped to see how the final game plays when we have more control over the build.

Izuna · Jul 24, 2017

Not gonna make a thread but.. I played the beta and I felt like the campaign wasn't as fun either. It's like straight up TTK but slower

Nesther · Jul 24, 2017

I absolutely loved tearing through the crucible in D1 with my fusion rifle and solar grenades. I don't know if I'll get used to the changes in D2 or if it'll ever be as fun as D1 to me.

blackjaw · Jul 24, 2017

It feels like a generic shooter now and not Destiny.

I agree with most of your points, even at its most broken it was still kind of fun. Nothing like shotgunning the dude with the Thorn when one tick away from dying.

I'll be passing on D2 for now.

Foxxsoxx · Jul 24, 2017

It's fun when teams aren't constantly teamshotting.

Unfortunately teams are constantly teamshotting.

*Splinter · Jul 24, 2017

I didn't care much for what I saw in the beta. It didn't help that the Vex-y map (Venus?) was probably the worst map I've seen in Destiny.

For the beta in general I was amazed at how little had changed. I havent played Destiny since Prison of Elders and there wasn't a single new enemy?? Even the boss was just a bigger... whatever those things are called.

harrytang · Jul 24, 2017

I disagree..... The gun play is the star and it feels just so damn good. I played with and got kills with every gun in the beta and I can't wait until the full sandbox is open and I have access to the complete armory. It's going to be absolutely bonkers!

In d1 there were so many guns that I never would have touched or used cause they felt the same or were boring or outside the meta, but in d2 they all feel viable within there niche. Have to play with them to find the sweet spot on range. I also really enjoy the fact that you can fire these gun without ADS close range and be on target.

Hatefilled Vengeance · Jul 24, 2017

4v4 was an awful decision.

firehawk12 · Jul 24, 2017

El Sloth said:
So this is how I'm welcomed back eh! Even if it's true! I'll remember this!

Slooooooothhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Schwabe · Jul 24, 2017

*Splinter said:
I didn't care much for what I saw in the beta. It didn't help that the Vex-y map (Venus?) was probably the worst map I've seen in Destiny.

For the beta in general I was amazed at how little had changed. I havent played Destiny since Prison of Elders and there wasn't a single new enemy?? Even the boss was just a bigger... whatever those things are called.

well there are some new enemies, try again.

Bubble Walrus · Jul 24, 2017

GlamFM said:
Maps like first light? Wasn't that actually the only one?

Or am I forgetting something?

Can't remember the names but there was also a large vehicle map on Mars and then a DLC Old Russia one.

Spades · Jul 24, 2017

Why not post this in the beta OT, which is there for impressions?

1.21Gigawatts · Jul 24, 2017

Maybe its because I came into this having played a bunch of 60FPS games, but the game just didn't click for me anymore.
Having played over 300 hours of Destiny 1 I thought I would be hooked again right away, but nah.

Part of me is glad that I am not going down this rabbit hole that is Destiny again.

irrotational · Jul 24, 2017

Saw the thread title and thought "do we REALLY need another thread on this!?
.... but then it has produced this post - amazing!

orborborb said:
here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

TsuWave · Jul 24, 2017

i agree, i didn't enjoy D2 pvp at all, and i sunk hours into the first.

Makikou · Jul 24, 2017

They made it slow and lost what made Destiny fun.

But hey, it's not like they can't see tons of posts on Reddit, GAF, Internet in general and even the Press have jumped on to it.

MrS · Jul 24, 2017

D1 PVP had way too many weapon nerfs and balance problems that ruined the gameplay and my enjoyment of the games competitive multiplayer aspect. It's a shame because great maps like Shores of Time, Exodus Blue and Twilight Gap deserved a better game. Year 1 PVP was best PVP imo.

recursive · Jul 24, 2017

amar212 said:
My take on the D2 design-overhaul is that Activision want to have Destiny together with COD and OVerwatch in the competitive MLG space. And all this changes are made with that in mind, but with trying to save as much as original Destiny as possible.

PC support, 4vs4, graphics that are showcasing all teams statuses all the time, more emphasis on primary skill, etc.

It is what it is. Numbers will show the success of their vision.

I have no problems with changes, but I hate the sound effects and the lack of punch in feels for weapons and jumps.

Unless weapon balance is on point, MLG competitive will not happen. Does D1 have a competitive scene outside people sweating out trials?

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