I started listening to Crucible Radio over the last few months and managed to seriously upgrade my game in D1. With the changes to PvP in D2, I feel that improvement even more. I feel much more personally responsible for my own successes and screw-ups since the team sizes are smaller. I can get why that wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, though. Sometimes you just want to play mayhem and watch everything explode.
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Destiny's PvP doesn't feel fun anymore
- Thread starter El Sloth
- Start date
Personally have had a ton of fun with the beta even though it's limited to 2 maps. The crew I run with has enjoyed it as well. Plenty of things to critique, but I like a lot of the changes.
I'm really not too concerned about the cool down times yet. We will undoubtedly be able to shorten them with better gear that ships with the final game.
I'm really not too concerned about the cool down times yet. We will undoubtedly be able to shorten them with better gear that ships with the final game.
Literally the hottest of takes
it's not even about feeling overpowered, it's just about feeling powered in general.
if I wanted strict gun play then I'd go play CoD or Counterstrike. Give me my damn super more than (possibly) once.
Pandora012
Member
It's not just about feeling over powered in pvp. It's that they made it to cater to only the more hardcore audience. This new mode was not meant for solo players or those that don't like sweaty play. As for the power issue this is Destiny, you are a space magic warrior. It's only natural to want to actually use your abilities more than one. Though it seems like Bungie is tweaking this, so it should be better.
As for the beta, as a person that mainly played control, this version was far to slow for me. Though I can understand why some would like the slower pace. Maybe if they added 1 more person it might have flowed better. Additionally, grenade / super / sniper / shotgun spam was never really a problem in control, or atleast I never had any major issues with it in D1.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I didn't play enough to really go one way or the other, but I can already tell I'm going to miss the bigger player count. When I was having fun with D1 PVP it was because of the hectic and chaotic nature that created. It felt like you were part of a small war. That's totally lost with 4v4 and it's not bad, but it's surely different. It's probably inarguably tighter and more balanced, but for me I wouldn't necessarily say it's more fun. Sometimes I want to play SWAT and sometimes I want to play Big Team Battle you know? Unfortunately with D2 I'm not going to have that choice.
TheCanisDirus
Member
I thought it was just as fun as D1 pvp, except people weren't always running around with shotguns so it comes out miles ahead in overall enjoyment. I'm sure that when we have armor with actual cooldown related traits, supers will come more than once a match. I'd also be fairly shocked if we didn't see Mayhem return, maybe not at launch but some time in the near future.
Pandora012
Member
I might not had much of an issue, since I main a Mida. So most of my fights were long to mid range. Though haven't had to deal with any snipers lately. Must be the luckiest guardian.
ethomaz
Banned
Destiny 2 Crucible is...
Everybody hold close to their team and shot the first dude... kill him... aim the second dude... kill him... kill the third dude... now kill the fourth dude...
Back to the first dude that just spanned on the map again... repeat forever and win boring matches.
Destiny vanilla Crucible was...
Hold your own shit, help the team and change strategies constantly... if your team are losing stream just go to other place and attack from the back while your team hold the dudes.
Change the pace, give options to your team, make epic comebacks from close to lose matches.
Fun fun fun and tons of fun.
You can even play lazy the first half of the match for fun and if you are losing then gear up to competitive level and you have chamce to comeback... moment to moment is important in Destiny vanilla and that makes the game unpredictable and a hell of fun.
Everybody hold close to their team and shot the first dude... kill him... aim the second dude... kill him... kill the third dude... now kill the fourth dude...
Back to the first dude that just spanned on the map again... repeat forever and win boring matches.
Destiny vanilla Crucible was...
Hold your own shit, help the team and change strategies constantly... if your team are losing stream just go to other place and attack from the back while your team hold the dudes.
Change the pace, give options to your team, make epic comebacks from close to lose matches.
Fun fun fun and tons of fun.
You can even play lazy the first half of the match for fun and if you are losing then gear up to competitive level and you have chamce to comeback... moment to moment is important in Destiny vanilla and that makes the game unpredictable and a hell of fun.
If you don't like supers and abilities then why are you even playing Destiny in the first place?
Don't really care that they've nerfed the ability spam to the ground, although it is weird that everyone gets their super right around the same time. I do care that movement felt sluggish and the gunplay in Beta was completely unsatisfying. I can see them tweaking TTK for the retail release but I doubt' they'll ever bring back the unique movements from D1.
D2 pvp isn't like that at all unless you're talking about focused pre-made 4v4, and then the same would be true for D1.
I mean, it could be that every game you've personally played has followed that sequence, but it's /so/ far from my own experience I find that difficult to understand....
ethomaz
Banned
It is exactly that...
Destiny vanilla everybody is a hero.
Destiny 2 everybody is a cannon fodder.
You lose te potential to be a hero... to change the pace, the moment for moment of the match... you lose the ability to be creative, to change the match for bad or good... you lose the fun.
It wont be like that in the full game because of the armor changes etc.
I love the new version of control. The action is always happening and people can't behind their teammates.
Strangelove77
Member
Honest question - if you don't like supers, fantastical grenades and sniper rifles then why are you playing Destiny? Being superpowered and having different unrealistic tools besides bullets at your disposal is what sets it apart. That's exactly why a lot of us play it. We all want to be superheroes and use and see weird shit that we don't see in other games.
If you just want to shoot boring handguns and scout rifles all day with your team then there are other more realistic games that do that.
If you just want to shoot boring handguns and scout rifles all day with your team then there are other more realistic games that do that.
It's not exactly that though because it's literally not that for the majority of the games I've played as a single queue. Unless my experience is nothing like the average player's, I think you're wrong.
It's not as chaotic as 1, obviously, but the sequence you describe is not all there is to it as you claim.
Yeah, I almost never stick close to my teammates, even when I play with my friends. I think I've seen maybe one team stay grouped up like that, but I didn't get the impression that it was the go-to strategy.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
The terrible PvP of the first game is what kept me from buying that one. I have no clue how people can buy a Bungie game with such shit and limited MP. It didn't hit any of the highs of any Halo game in any respect, not even almost.
Chase Lebowski
Member
I like them in both PVP and PVE, but spamming them in Mayhem with 0 skills It isn't fun to me.
You're not in the minority. I miss the chaos too and the push for 4v4 across all game-types and relegating snipers and shot ties to power weapons is perplexing (and infuriating, TBH).
Well, tbh, we don't know who is the majority/minority so we should avoid statements like that.
What we know for sure is that there's a significant amount of players of both sides of the debate, and while both can't be fully appeased Bungie definitely could cater to bother better than they have done/are doing.
Blam
Member
I don't actually understand this force 4v4 instead of letting us play 6v6 unranked. I'm waiting for this PC version so I can help whomever mod the shit out of it.
Pandora012
Member
But that's what Mayhem was all about though....Literally every 30 seconds your super/ability was ready to go. I can understand if it was every mode, but this was just one of many different ones.
Well, no. In Halo 5 you actually have the choice of small or big battles. D2 does not give you a choice.
With 4v4, if they stick to it religiously, then gone are any kind of larger vehicle based maps. 6v6 is the lower limit of what made the larger maps work in D1, surely?
Ehhh, I don't agree with that at all. I've absolutely seen people, including myself, turn the tides of matches with a triple/quadruple giving their team a huge surge of momentum. You can be a hero if you want, of all the things that have changed from D1, that isn't one of them.
I like most of those things, but assuming I didn't, I'd still say that Destiny is more fun and interesting than any realistic shooter on the market, even without supers and special grenades.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think they struggled so much with big maps in D1 that they're just saying screw it and not doing them. 4v4 is the law now. The best we can hope for is 6v6 and some medium sized maps in like a year or two as a bullet point for one of the expansions that they can advertise.
Leyasu
Banned
Bungie have and always will know best.
InsaneTiger
Member
Shit first post, way to contribute.
OP, I thought the PVP was fun, the Hunter class is not in a good place right now. Their class ability is meh.
I have never seen a MP to a big shooter being so unambitious. Lowering playercount from 6v6 to 4v4, making grenades and supers more scarce, still having small and static arena maps and 30fps while the competition (Battlefield, CoD, Titanfall, Battlefront, Overwatch etc) has bigger and more dynamic maps with more players while running at 60fps on consoles.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Yep, it honestly felt the same to me, except there weren't players on the edge of the map camping out with snipers every time. People were actually engaging and fighting in close quarter battles. It was kinda nice.
There definitely need to be some tweaks made but I enjoyed what I played.
gutter_trash
Banned
it's not fun because of
a) guns feel less Bungie, guns feel less Destiny 1, guns feel generic just like another generic shooter
b) ability cooldowns slowed down to the point that it barely makes no difference which subclass you are running with because you barely ever get to see your grenades or melee get into effect
c) if you smoke the other team, the match will end ever before your Super Meter ever fills up.
If your team gets smoked, the match will end ever before your Super Meter ever fills ups.
d) and if you get lucky enough to ever get your Meter filled up, it will be at the last 30 seconds of the game when it is too late to turn the tide.
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What made Destiny 1 great was the Bungie feel + abilities that defined your SubClass's style of play. + the customazibiltiy of the SubClass to your liking.
D2 forces you down either 2 paths with per Subclass with only Grenades and Jump to change around. Kind of lame.
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In D1, Fun Was Allowed.
in D2, Fun is Not Allowed. (it's just another generic shooter now)
Bungie made a big mistake to cater to E-Sports crowd who just want GunPlay and water down abilities. If you want a generic shooter, than buy something else, don't ruin Destiny
a) guns feel less Bungie, guns feel less Destiny 1, guns feel generic just like another generic shooter
b) ability cooldowns slowed down to the point that it barely makes no difference which subclass you are running with because you barely ever get to see your grenades or melee get into effect
c) if you smoke the other team, the match will end ever before your Super Meter ever fills up.
If your team gets smoked, the match will end ever before your Super Meter ever fills ups.
d) and if you get lucky enough to ever get your Meter filled up, it will be at the last 30 seconds of the game when it is too late to turn the tide.
----------
What made Destiny 1 great was the Bungie feel + abilities that defined your SubClass's style of play. + the customazibiltiy of the SubClass to your liking.
D2 forces you down either 2 paths with per Subclass with only Grenades and Jump to change around. Kind of lame.
-------
In D1, Fun Was Allowed.
in D2, Fun is Not Allowed. (it's just another generic shooter now)
Bungie made a big mistake to cater to E-Sports crowd who just want GunPlay and water down abilities. If you want a generic shooter, than buy something else, don't ruin Destiny
I loved 6v6 more than 4x4. More fun
Raven117
Member
I am far from a pvp aficianado, but I played my share with D1 (usually Iron Banner).
I like the changes, as I really hated the sliding shotgun, super, grenade fest. I never quite caught on it, and I was always frustrated.
I enjoyed this style of pvp much more, but I can see how its not as "fun" for some folks.
That said, i like Rainbow Six Siege, so Im all about the slower more tactical approaches.
I like the changes, as I really hated the sliding shotgun, super, grenade fest. I never quite caught on it, and I was always frustrated.
I enjoyed this style of pvp much more, but I can see how its not as "fun" for some folks.
That said, i like Rainbow Six Siege, so Im all about the slower more tactical approaches.
I'm enjoying my time with the Destiny 2 PvP a lot more than I have with the recent Cricible sandbox in D1. The new weapon system allows me to be able to always have a weapon I can use at different ranges and in different types of encounters, the map design is much more focused with lots of flanking routes, longer TTK rewards me for being able to aim under fire, and the lower player count/longer cooldowns makes it feel like I'm actually able to contribute instead of just getting wrecked immediately.
I do agree that the ability cooldowns, especially supers, are too long but of they adjust that then it should be a much better experience than D1's Crucible was.
I do agree that the ability cooldowns, especially supers, are too long but of they adjust that then it should be a much better experience than D1's Crucible was.
Velocity:Design:Comfort
Banned
Got some evidence or numbers on this? All these people saying its too slow to kill someone might need to just aim better or get good, it literally takes exactly as long to kill someone as in D1, but overall just more focused on shooting.
Velocity:Design:Comfort
Banned
Yawn, it's a beta. You literally have only one exotic gun.
gutter_trash
Banned
3 actually, and they were all lame
Legendary Pulse Rifles and Autos did a better job taking out PvP players than the Exotics
Weapons in PvP straight up do less damage than in D1. Handcannons are 4 shot kills instead of 3.
Didn't even touch the PvP. 4v4 lol. Even Counterstrike in 1999 had more players.
Also because 4v4 is a fucking dumb decision, we never asked for this.
Want to hop into PvP with your raid group?
Bungie:
On the one hand I know why they paired it down to 4; 6 people getting supers and giving off orbs of light while murdering another 6 people would always cause a chain reaction of supers that would just be broken as fuck.
On the other hand, lol at not being to have 4 people in strikes/story missions and so having to go to pvp which only allows one more person. For an mmo-lite, they really don't want you to play with a big group.
Not to mention the 6 person D1 pvp games were pretty fun until a wave of supers fucked everything up.
Your post said "Super and grenades spam fest/Mayhem".
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you were equating regular D1 PvP with Mayhem which is a hyperbolic stretch. Nobody is asking for Mayhem; people just want to access their abilities as regularly as they did in D1 and with roughly the same D1 TTK. Solo queuing is a not fun for people right now.