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All things China |OT| !

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There is one official pinyin these days, Tsingtao is in old European transcribing (Qingdao was a german colony) that predates that standardization.

It's kinda like the Wu Tang clan, which today will be transcribed as wudang.
And that's my friend, is the real secret of the wu tang clan, that d and t sounds awfully similar in Chinese.

I am not Chinese, just had an opportunity to work in China for a few years, been here for about two, planning on probably 2 more, but who knows, it's been great so far, though I kinda doubt I'm going to spend the rest of my life here.


At least in the US, white people are expats, brown people are immigrants.
In China, I don't consider myself an immigrant because I don't plan to immigrate here permanently (and I don't think it's really going to be possible for me), in conversation I usually say 'foreigner', but honestly, I have not thought about this too much.
off topic, but d and t are known to swap places in all languages. for instance, you'll find geographic distributions of people that pronounce butter as "budder." the same is true for sounds like p and b (maybe this partially explains the earlier romanization of beijing as peking) among many others. maybe at some point the 武當幫 was pronounced with a t on the 當.
 
Really dont like the word expats, since to me those expats are often the ones living in their german, italian, spanish, american compound not going out besides going to their job.

This is the truth. I'm not one of those guys, why would you move to a foreign country and then stay in a bubble? Not interacting with anybody and I've often found those guys to be a bit elitist.
 
This is the truth. I'm not one of those guys, why would you move to a foreign country and then stay in a bubble? Not interacting with anybody and I've often found those guys to be a bit elitist.

Most people do it because of the money. 2 years in a country, bring back the dosh.
They dont usually care about anything else.
 

Corgi

Banned
Most people do it because of the money. 2 years in a country, bring back the dosh.
They dont usually care about anything else.
dont know... unless you are working for an international company, can't imagine you will be making more money in china than a western country.
 
dont know... unless you are working for an international company, can't imagine you will be making more money in china than a western country.

The Expats are normally people who were sent by their company. So if you normally work in Germany, sent to China of course you will get paid more, they usually pay you housing, because they need you and dont expect you to work for less than in Germany.

I'm just trying to see where the different perspectives/voices in this thread are coming from, their background.

I would say the young chinese (educated) people mostly are not that different from western people. They usually have the same values as us (+the strong family ties).
My gf and her friends are constantly complaining about the government, the air, the trash on the street, the people without manners etc.
 

sasimirobot

Junior Member

I'm saying that some habits like peeing in public and slurping noodles I can get behind, others not so much.

I remember one time going fishing with a good Chinese friend and he flicked a finished light cigarette on the floor inside of his own car. That level of "I don't give a fuck" -ness amazes me, but I have my limits.
 

Big-E

Member
dont know... unless you are working for an international company, can't imagine you will be making more money in china than a western country.

Taxes can be less and the cost of living is substantially lower. I get paid less on paper than I would in Canada by a little bit, but in reality I get paid way more because I can easily save way more money in China than in Canada. A single bus ride for me in China to work costs me roughly 15 cents canadian. In Canada that would be over 2 dollars so its like 16 times more expensive for travelling too and from work.
 

Chichikov

Member
off topic, but d and t are known to swap places in all languages. for instance, you'll find geographic distributions of people that pronounce butter as "budder." the same is true for sounds like p and b (maybe this partially explains the earlier romanization of beijing as peking) among many others. maybe at some point the 武當幫 was pronounced with a t on the 當.
I was just going for a wu tang joke.
But yeah, they do tend to change places, devolve from one to another etc. In Chinese the sound is kinda in between, it's not quite English 'd' and not quite 't', same go for the b/p in Beijing.
I thought the 'k' in peking was from a southern dialect, people used to speak quite differently before the standardization of mandarin.

Speaking of accents, I find it funny that while my accent can be describe as somewhere between atrocious to "well, at least he's trying", people can still easily spot that I learned Chinese in Beijing, because the way I say 一点儿.
Taiwanese accent is pretty easy to spot as well.
 

maomaoIYP

Member
It's not a pissing contest to see who is more cultured than the other? But, regardless of where or who you are-- your experience will definitely be different than someone who IS Chinese? The whole thread has been people who are mostly expats.

Chairmanchuck mentioned it-- there's networks like QQ and whatnot... a Chinese net, and honestly, a whole new world for someone like me (American). I'm really curious if there are any people here who consider themselves Chinese, as opposed to someone to moved to China to live/work for a bit.

I'm sure you've run into the attitude of maybe "Chinese culture/people are better," hard to describe what I mean, maybe what I mean is someone who will call you a bai guei and ask if you're REALLY Chinese, but I'm not asking with that kind of tone. I'm just trying to see where the different perspectives/voices in this thread are coming from, their background.

(edit: To be honest, since most of my friends are Chinese / families are from China, a lot of them have gone to work in China for a bit. But, I don't know too many people who are actually Chinese-Chinese, and I'm just kinda curious to see how they view China. I wonder if it will be different. I'm just curious. It's not meant to be a judgement.)
I was born in Hong Kong but I migrated to an predominately English speaking part of Asia as a child. I'm effectively bilingual and I identify myself as Chinese. I use wechat and momo more than whatsapp or tinder/okc but I use Facebook and not renren wang.
 
China Gaff I'm going back to Guangzhou for two weeks this April. I haven't been there in 15 years. Anything I should watch out for? Anything I should see? Are there any dinosaur msuems there to visit? I was lucky last time and stumbled onto an traveling dinosaur exhibit last time.
 
I was born in Hong Kong but I migrated to an predominately English speaking part of Asia as a child. I'm effectively bilingual and I identify myself as Chinese. I use wechat and momo more than whatsapp or tinder/okc but I use Facebook and not renren wang.

Afaik the time of Renren seems to be over.
 

Corgi

Banned
The Expats are normally people who were sent by their company. So if you normally work in Germany, sent to China of course you will get paid more, they usually pay you housing, because they need you and dont expect you to work for less than in Germany.

Taxes can be less and the cost of living is substantially lower. I get paid less on paper than I would in Canada by a little bit, but in reality I get paid way more because I can easily save way more money in China than in Canada. A single bus ride for me in China to work costs me roughly 15 cents canadian. In Canada that would be over 2 dollars so its like 16 times more expensive for travelling too and from work.

hmmm this is true, but I guess it depends on where you at in china. Living costs in Shanghai is rising like crazy, and food in the office areas ain't cheap.

Did interning back in '12, and could easily spend 50-60 yuan per meal. Ended up mostly eating shit from Family Mart lol.
 
It's not a pissing contest to see who is more cultured than the other? But, regardless of where or who you are-- your experience will definitely be different than someone who IS Chinese? The whole thread has been people who are mostly expats.

Chairmanchuck mentioned it-- there's networks like QQ and whatnot... a Chinese net, and honestly, a whole new world for someone like me (American). I'm really curious if there are any people here who consider themselves Chinese, as opposed to someone to moved to China to live/work for a bit.

I'm sure you've run into the attitude of maybe "Chinese culture/people are better," hard to describe what I mean, maybe what I mean is someone who will call you a bai guei and ask if you're REALLY Chinese, but I'm not asking with that kind of tone. I'm just trying to see where the different perspectives/voices in this thread are coming from, their background.

(edit: To be honest, since most of my friends are Chinese / families are from China, a lot of them have gone to work in China for a bit. But, I don't know too many people who are actually Chinese-Chinese, and I'm just kinda curious to see how they view China. I wonder if it will be different. I'm just curious. It's not meant to be a judgement.)
if you don't look chinese, you aren't chinese. if you can pass as chinese, you might be accepted as chinese at some point, although if you're an ABC you will be far different culturally and socially, and they will notice those differences. i would very much doubt any china expat would consider themselves chinese. even long term residents (and many of these long term residents who've been there for 20 or 30 are only there on 5 or 10 year visas!) wouldn't consider themselves chinese. there is a process to become naturalized, but i would bet the total number of white people who have become chinese citizens is a couple hundred at most.

the situation is slightly different in taiwan. you could become taiwanese on paper there -- the visa situation and naturalization process is much more in line with a western country, and so are some of their cultural values. culturally, you probably wouldn't be seen as chinese. the prc, though? you aren't chinese, end of story.

there might be a few chinese on gaf (likely those who are studying or working in the west), but the overwhelming majority of gaffers posting about china aren't going to be chinese people. so yeah, the perspective of this thread is going to be from foreigners looking in, although there are a few people whose language, cultural, and work experience will mean they have good insight into china. I think numble has been working in China or its periphery for a number of years now.
 
hmmm this is true, but I guess it depends on where you at in china. Living costs in Shanghai is rising like crazy, and food in the office areas ain't cheap.

Did interning back in '12, and could easily spend 50-60 yuan per meal. Ended up mostly eating shit from Family Mart lol.

That is part of the reason why a lot of people lately go back to their hometown after working in a big city.
The chinese government makes the big cities attractive for rich people, not for normal people.

I mean I could either buy a 80m² appartment in Beijing Downtown. Or I could buy a big house near Cologne or Düsseldorf.
I know I should not compare two different countries, but the prices are getting really ridiculous.

Especially when you compare it to "smaller" cities in China. For about 4000-5000 RMB you can get a really clean 130m² appartment in Tianjin.
 
Oh, also, how do I bypass the block in Android? I know how on PC, but I'll be using my tablet in China and I don't know what I have access to with Android.
 

maomaoIYP

Member
I am at work. Couldnt use it otherwise.

The censorship is really strange lately though. I mean 2 years ago you couldnt access 4chan and reddit.
Now you can.

I recall not being able to access google maps or gmail while travelling in Shenzhen last year, that was a little more than annoying actually. What's the Chinese equivalent for google maps?
 
I recall not being able to access google maps or gmail while travelling in Shenzhen last year, that was a little more than annoying actually. What's the Chinese equivalent for google maps?

Google is blocked now since last year. First because of the Tiananmen thing, then it seems Google and the government couldnt find a solution about some censorship rules.

There are enough alternatives to google maps though. Bing maps. Baidu Maps. Other maps ;)
 

sasimirobot

Junior Member
Oh, also, how do I bypass the block in Android? I know how on PC, but I'll be using my tablet in China and I don't know what I have access to with Android.
ShadowSocks for android is free, works ok.

I use Astrill for windows (4/5 bucks a month) and it works great so far.

Also if you are in a pinch like using a internet cafe computer, or somebody else's phone, etc...you can use the site www.securitales.com. It has a free 15 minute trial, that you can use over and over if use incognito mode on a browser.
 

Big-E

Member
Neogaf has never been blocked as far as I know. I use VPN constantly, but I still can access it if I am using someone else's phone or computer without it. VPNs are important mostly from a speed standpoint. Accessing foreign sites that aren't blocked are often much faster with a vpn than without. Google has been blocked for a long time now, but gmail would still work during that period except last year they made a change and gmail has been blocked now for some time.
 

Chichikov

Member
Baidu maps?
Most of the people I know prefer autonavi, I like it better as well.
Oh, also, how do I bypass the block in Android? I know how on PC, but I'll be using my tablet in China and I don't know what I have access to with Android.
Any VPN solution you'll chose will have andriod instructions.
And as someone who dicked around with free VPN for quite a while before going paid, I think worth the (usually modest) price, you get what you paid for.
 
Most of the people I know prefer autonavi, I like it better as well.

Any VPN solution you'll chose will have andriod instructions.
And as someone who dicked around with free VPN for quite a while before going paid, I think worth the (usually modest) price, you get what you paid for.

I'm only gonna be in China for two weeks.
 

numble

Member
dont know... unless you are working for an international company, can't imagine you will be making more money in china than a western country.

hmmm this is true, but I guess it depends on where you at in china. Living costs in Shanghai is rising like crazy, and food in the office areas ain't cheap.

Did interning back in '12, and could easily spend 50-60 yuan per meal. Ended up mostly eating shit from Family Mart lol.

Cost of living does depend on the city.

It is possible that working for a purely Chinese company can earn a lot of money (usually if you are in management or something). That's where all the rich tourists and immigrants are coming from (not all of them are corrupt government officials).

But even non-management people can do well. I think the employees of Baidu, Alibaba, etc. have probably become very rich with their stock options. There are a lot of expats that start up their own businesses (restaurant chains are something I see often), and I guess there are some gaffers here that are making a lot with their own companies helping source/supply products for Western markets.
 

3dmodeler

Member
Neogaf has never been blocked as far as I know. I use VPN constantly, but I still can access it if I am using someone else's phone or computer without it. VPNs are important mostly from a speed standpoint. Accessing foreign sites that aren't blocked are often much faster with a vpn than without. Google has been blocked for a long time now, but gmail would still work during that period except last year they made a change and gmail has been blocked now for some time.

I was recently in China for Chinese new year and I was totally able to access my gmail account from my Iphone and I wasn't using a vpn. I couldn't access it if I typed it in a browser but gmail somehow worked on my phone. Anyone know how that was possible?
 

sasimirobot

Junior Member
I was recently in China for Chinese new year and I was totally able to access my gmail account from my Iphone and I wasn't using a vpn. I couldn't access it if I typed it in a browser but gmail somehow worked on my phone. Anyone know how that was possible?

Yes gmail still does work as an android app in China as far as I know. Funny thing a friend of mine told me is that he can use any website on an old kindle. There must be a technical reason for this but its not my area of expertise so I have no idea...
 

numble

Member
I was recently in China for Chinese new year and I was totally able to access my gmail account from my Iphone and I wasn't using a vpn. I couldn't access it if I typed it in a browser but gmail somehow worked on my phone. Anyone know how that was possible?

It was possible for awhile to access it via apps, but apparently it was closed late last year:
http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/gmail-access-loophole-closes-in-china/

But if it was during CNY, that should be after that date.

If you were accessing it by roaming on a non-Chinese SIM, that should work--I can use a T-Mobile SIM and there are no censorship blocks.

Yes gmail still does work as an android app in China as far as I know. Funny thing a friend of mine told me is that he can use any website on an old kindle. There must be a technical reason for this but its not my area of expertise so I have no idea...

Some of the old kindles have free 3G(?) AT&T internet service worldwide, it may be because of that.
 

Big-E

Member
I was recently in China for Chinese new year and I was totally able to access my gmail account from my Iphone and I wasn't using a vpn. I couldn't access it if I typed it in a browser but gmail somehow worked on my phone. Anyone know how that was possible?

Apps are different. Facebook also works through apps sometimes. Government doesn't care about phone access and I really don't know why.
 

t26

Member
Man, I wish that I could read Chinese (beyond a 3rd grade level haha), and I had access to this.

=(.

Do you have to work and live in China for a substantially long time to access this? Could I, as an American, participate if I didn't read Chinese very well? haha


*edit: Regarding your second part-- you know, I hear that the noveau rich really have that problem, is that a big city thing? What are the class differences like? Is the one child policy really having such a terrible effect? Are "traditional" Chinese "values" just one of those waxing "good old days" thing? Do you think that national attitude will ever shift to get rid of bribes, favouritism, and put in stricter codes? Will the Communist Party ever go out of power?

How different is China, in your experience, from other western countries?

I only finished 2nd grade and I have no trouble reading Chinese manga or even newspaper. Your average 8 years old can read just about anything.
 
Just got the word that I'm going back to Beijing in a couple weeks. Very exciting (though I prefer Chongqing).

Here's some photos from my last trip there, in case anyone cares (that's what they do in the Japan travel thread).

Guy with pet monkey outside the clubs in Chongqing
I2eBpN2.jpg

Getting close to the top of Huanglong national park

The view at dusk at Huanglong

Looking at the baby pandas take a nap in Chengdu

Forbidden City

Looking up at the Great Wall

Mascot outside cafe in Chongqing - with dong

Chongqing "dry pot," my favorite food

Art museum (?) in Chongqing - awesome architecture

Singing Rick Astley at KTV

Me and my panda friend in Chengdu

Edit: I may have compressed those images too much...
 
How were you able to make a picture with the Panda? Afaik no "normal" visitor is allowed near them because of germs and such.
I was at Chengdu's panda sanctuary a couple years ago and you could pay a good chunk of coin to get your picture taken with the young ones, as in have them sitting on your lap.

Did you guys watch the panda birthing video? About half the people watching it left midway through. It was like a scene from a horror movie rofl.
 
I was at Chengdu's panda sanctuary a couple years ago and you could pay a good chunk of coin to get your picture taken with the young ones, as in have them sitting on your lap.

Did you guys watch the panda birthing video? About half the people watching it left midway through. It was like a scene from a horror movie rofl.

Eww, wouldn't watch. They were cute and rolling around when I was there. Here's a vid from my YouTube channel:

https://youtu.be/VEir4E40gcc

Love these guys
 
Eww, wouldn't watch. They were cute and rolling around when I was there. Here's a vid from my YouTube channel:

https://youtu.be/VEir4E40gcc

Love these guys
It wasn't gross if you've seen animals/humans give birth before, but if you're squeamish around that sort of thing it definitely isn't advisable. I think it was filmed in the mid or late 90s on a camcorder. As a result, the image quality wasn't great. No thought was put into the camera angles, so it was like watching a shaky cam in a film when something goes horribly wrong. I half expected a xenomorph to appear at any second and kill everyone. The great thing is, the video takes place in this cute little viewing area, so the place is packed with tourists right before it starts. As soon as the video starts playing and you hear the screams, see the fluids, and witness the camera swing wildly around, many people begin leaving.
e: your video is private btw
 

Chichikov

Member
How were you able to make a picture with the Panda? Afaik no "normal" visitor is allowed near them because of germs and such.
As the greatest Chinese philosopher in history said "cash rule everything around me". For 1000 yuan, you can even get to live your fantasy of role playing Ron Artest and hold a baby panda who will be your friend forever. Plebs admission only get you a picture with a non baby panda. I went with the Chris Hansen package of course, because baby pandas woooo!
it was also free through work
And they make you wear scrubs.
 

Burt

Member
Anyone have any recommendations for a good China book? Doesn't have to be anything in particular, I just miss reading about the country in general.

Been thinking about it because earlier tonight I was trying to remember the name of a book I read once and wanted to do a reread but had given away to a Chinese person. It was Out of Mao's Shadow, which was a great read, but I have always wondered what the person I gave it to thought of it, because it's pretty damning of China's internal situation.

Funny thing is, I gave that book to one person and Lost on Planet China to her friend and said, "I'm warning you ahead of time, Out of Mao's Shadow is gonna be pretty rough. Lost of Planet China is a fun book about a foreigner doing stupid shit in China though." Of course, I had forgotten that Lost on Planet China starts with the story about the Banqiao Dam failures that killed ~170,000 people but no one in China knows about it because the government hushed it up. So she starts reading it while I'm still there:

"Did this really happen?"

"Uh... yeah. I'm pretty sure that happened."

"...I don't want to read this anymore."

Awkward.
 

Qvoth

Member
Hi China GAF, Shenzhen gaffer checking in. lived here for 7 years. Great place to live but does not get much attention compared to Hong Komg, Shanghai or Bejing. Super modern city lot's to do and right next to Hong Kong.

i stop by shenzhen all the time when we travel to hongkong
to luohu of course.. :)
 

numble

Member
Anyone have any recommendations for a good China book? Doesn't have to be anything in particular, I just miss reading about the country in general.

Been thinking about it because earlier tonight I was trying to remember the name of a book I read once and wanted to do a reread but had given away to a Chinese person. It was Out of Mao's Shadow, which was a great read, but I have always wondered what the person I gave it to thought of it, because it's pretty damning of China's internal situation.

Funny thing is, I gave that book to one person and Lost on Planet China to her friend and said, "I'm warning you ahead of time, Out of Mao's Shadow is gonna be pretty rough. Lost of Planet China is a fun book about a foreigner doing stupid shit in China though." Of course, I had forgotten that Lost on Planet China starts with the story about the Banqiao Dam failures that killed ~170,000 people but no one in China knows about it because the government hushed it up. So she starts reading it while I'm still there:

"Did this really happen?"

"Uh... yeah. I'm pretty sure that happened."

"...I don't want to read this anymore."

Awkward.

I've always heard Peter Hessler's books are good.
 
It wasn't gross if you've seen animals/humans give birth before, but if you're squeamish around that sort of thing it definitely isn't advisable. I think it was filmed in the mid or late 90s on a camcorder. As a result, the image quality wasn't great. No thought was put into the camera angles, so it was like watching a shaky cam in a film when something goes horribly wrong. I half expected a xenomorph to appear at any second and kill everyone. The great thing is, the video takes place in this cute little viewing area, so the place is packed with tourists right before it starts. As soon as the video starts playing and you hear the screams, see the fluids, and witness the camera swing wildly around, many people begin leaving.
e: your video is private btw

I would be squeamish!

I fixed the video. Looks like the playlist was public but every video was private. I'm new to YouTube :p

As the greatest Chinese philosopher in history said "cash rule everything around me". For 1000 yuan, you can even get to live your fantasy of role playing Ron Artest and hold a baby panda who will be your friend forever. Plebs admission only get you a picture with a non baby panda. I went with the Chris Hansen package of course, because baby pandas woooo!
it was also free through work
And they make you wear scrubs.

Pretty much this. I had to scrub down beforehand and wear that ridiculous outfit, too.
 
And I thought the 200RMB Huashan entry was expensive...

Well, I, personally, paid nothing. If that makes you feel better. Friends in high places, my man.

BTW, you had asked me about using your German law degree. What is your specialization? Have you thought of getting clients over the Internet? Unless there's some kind of residency requirement, why can't you?
 
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