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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

D

deadfolk

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
Start with this.

FG fundamentals: controlling space.

https://youtu.be/oGKGBtxBCLA
Click to expand...

Cindi Mayweather said:
Deadfolk:

Another suggestion (probably the best suggestion):

James Chen explains fighting games with non-fighting game material in...

How to Play Street Fighter: You All Know How To Play Street Fighter

and


How to Play Street Fighter: Movement First

Stick with these two episodes for now and just work on thinking of space.
Click to expand...

Will have a look - thanks!
 
D

Doomshine

Member
Ahjumbie said:
How do the Tekken devs handle patches? Do they patch often or just once in a while?
Click to expand...

They haven't done many in the past, usually just some bug fixes, but we might see more now that they have a season pass and can support the game longer. T6 and TTT2 were both pretty well balanced at launch though.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Alright, so help me understand further.

If we are going to pick moves for a Tekken character and pare them down, we need a counter hit moves, special, power, homing moves, hopkick, launchers, and some knock down's.

Can counter hits and SHP moves be explained? Why are they so important? Launchers and stuff are obvious because they allow the opportunity to do damage, but the others seem Tekken or 3D fighter specific and I'm too used to 2d.

Like Squirrel says,"- d/f+4 main CH tool". What does main counter hit tool exactly mean? Can you make up a scenario for me? We're talking about the knee, right? Iirc that move crumples on hit. Is that the benefit of a CH?
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
LordKasual said:
Looking at Lili, looks like they buffed alot of her options.
Click to expand...

Yeah for sure. She gets waaay better homing moves which has been a problem for her, ff4 is a -great- low now, and b1~f going into crouchdash is super useful.

On top of that, what most buff lists don't mention but is probably her most useful buff is that she gets VERY consistent combo routes now. In TTT2 and before that was a real pain in the ass, even slightly side-turned could make your combo drop, but now you get routes that are consistent even on almost 90 degrees sideturned. Which is well above average for a character.

Some other characters got buffed even more so she's not really top tier or anything, i think. But if you ever liked her before definitely give her a try in T7.
 
D

dbztrk

Member
So I downloaded SFV today and I tried to do the trials and I gave up on the first Ryu trial. I couldn't do jump + hard punch - medium punch - hard punch - hard kick. Lol

The funny thing is I don't remember being this bad at street fighter. I used to be pretty decent back in the alpha days.
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
Like Squirrel says,"- d/f+4 main CH tool". What does main counter hit tool exactly mean? Can you make up a scenario for me? We're talking about the knee, right? Iirc that move crumples on hit. Is that the benefit of a CH?
Click to expand...

d/f+4 (and 4/4,4,4) are 'main CH tools' because they are relatively fast, give a full launch on counterhit and are safe (or at least relatively safe) on block. Because they're safe you can kind of just chuck them out and if they counterhit the opponent is DEAD. The risk-reward is very good on things like this. (Don't overuse, you'll get whiff punished)

What they do is they scare your opponent away from pressing buttons, because that one time they did they got rekt. If they're not pressing buttons, you finally have the time to go for your dangerous, slower mixup tools.

4 is 11f, so that's good to throw out at minor advantage if you think they'll try jabbing (or anything else really)

d/f+4 is 15f, so at minor advantage it'll beat out mids and at large advantage it'll beat out jabs.

Both of them are also pretty good as what folks call 'placed moves', things you put out there for people to run into when they advance.

Edit: as to a simple scenario, 1,1,2 is +7 on block. 1,1,2 blocked> d/f+4. At 15 frames it will beat anything, even jabs, because 15-7=8 < 10(jab). If they press anything, they get counterhit and you get a full combo. If they don't press anything, you're safe. (If they keep not pressing anything every time, good. Mess them up for that. )
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
So CH moves are launch punishes?
Click to expand...

No they're moves that do something special and painful on counterhit, and are especially suited to fish for counterhits in your gameplan.

Like how some buttons have the exact frame date to be a tight frametrap in SF5. They're -made- to entice the opponent to hang themselves. Kind of like that?

Actual launchers pop your opponent in the air on -normal- hit (and also on counterhit), and for that are usually unsafe or slowish or sometimes both.

Normal launchers you seriously can't just throw out there because very unsafe. (There are exceptions, which are very powerful)

Counterhit tools only do the thing on counterhit but are fast and/or safe.

For Katarina, compare d/f+4 and u/f+4,4.
d/f+4 - 15f mid, safe at -9, launches only on CH.
u/f+4,4 - 15f mid, unsafe at -13, launches always.

Not all CH tools are full launchers at all btw, for example Lars b+4 does some kind of attack throw automatic followup on CH only. And sometimes you get like a mini combo or something, or a strong guaranteed grounded hit.

Overall i guess 'CH tool' just means 'this is really good for frametrapping people with'
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
"Both of them are also pretty good as what folks call 'placed moves', things you put out there for people to run into when they advance"

Aka Chun st.HP. A long range poke with some range and speed.

My favorite type of move. Kekeke.
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
What about SHP moves? What does homing so exactly?
Click to expand...

"SHP"? Oh, from the move demonstration?

S is Screw. It's the mechanic that replaced Bound for combos.
P is Power Crush. It's also a new mechanic, these moves have infinite armor for highs and mids, vulnerable to lows and throws. You do take damage though. Good for closing out rounds and -maybe- to get out of pressure.
H is homing, it means this move hits people even if they sidestep, both ways. (Keep in mind that there are non-homing moves that track as well, usually to one side, sometimes distance dependent)
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
as to a simple scenario, 1,1,2 is +7 on block. 1,1,2 blocked> d/f+4. At 15 frames it will beat anything, even jabs, because 15-7=8 < 10(jab). If they press anything, they get counterhit and you get a full combo. If they don't press anything, you're safe. (If they keep not pressing anything every time, good. Mess them up for that. )
Click to expand...

I see. Sounds dope.

I'm still new to using frames for punishes so I'll go through the data again and see what I type of CH scenarios I can get.

This is so fun. I love the prep stage of a fighter. Used to intimidate but now it's easier with experience.
 
D

DunpealD

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
So CH moves are launch punishes or just moves that are fast and beat other moves and give a good incentive because they hit hard?
Click to expand...

SquirrelSoup said:
Counterhit tools only do the thing on counterhit but are fast and/or safe.

For Katarina, compare d/f+4 and u/f+4,4.
d/f+4 - 15f mid, safe at -9, launches only on CH.
u/f+4,4 - 15f mid, unsafe at -13, launches always.

Not all CH tools are full launchers at all btw, for example Lars b+4 does some kind of attack throw automatic followup on CH only. And sometimes you get like a mini combo or something, or a strong guaranteed grounded hit.

Overall i guess 'CH tool' just means 'this is really good for frametrapping people with'
Click to expand...

Just as an example. In TTT2 Jins 4 on hit is just a normal hit, but leads to crumple on counter hit. The crumple seems pretty tight though, so you really need to know how to follow up on it.
If you want to compare it to SFV, then the thing closest to it are Crush Counters.
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
I see. Sounds dope.

I'm still new to using frames for punishes so I'll go through the data again and see what I type of CH scenarios I can get.

This is so fun. I love the prep stage of a fighter. Used to intimidate but now it's easier with experience.
Click to expand...

Since in T7 you now get the full benefits of a CH on a trade, +5 is the magic number for d/f+4 since it would trade with a jab.

Look at how much of your stuff is +5 (or more) on hit. (Spoiler: It's a lot, including lovely things like a simple d/f+1.)

Every time you hit with one of those, folks have to respect the knee of death coming out. (Depending on distancing! Don't forget this bit! You'll be sad if you do) Since they'll be respecting (or they'll be dead, also good), you can do mean things to them.

d/f+4 is pretty buff/fun/obnoxious.

Frametrapping is really fun in Tekken.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Yoooo this frame shit is so fun.

112 puts you at +7 on block, +9 on hit. If they block, I can use d/f+4 which will beat whatever they bust out like you said, or do a b+4 and trade with a jab. I could use a d/f+1 and it still beat their jab because it's only -1 on block. Back out, expect a button to be pressed, and hit them with a nice poke and go for the kill.

I like this. Tekken seems fun as shit competitively. Now I just need my game so I can get to work on Korean backdashes lol.

Again, for whatever reason Tekken frame data seems easier for me to understand an build an arsenal than SF despite having 99999 more moves than SF. I don't understand why but I have no complaints.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
112 seems to be Katarina's main mix up starter. You can do 112 then 3 and still be at advantage. 3 Is +6 on hit too. The great thing is that it's a mid. So 112 are all highs, then you stick out the 3 which is a mid. Then I'd put in another 112, hope they'd expect another mid and go for a low like d+3,4. d+3,4 has a 16 frame start up. With 112 being 7 on block, you'd be in positive on block. Add in harrier and girl, we're cookin.

I can't believe I'm having so much fun making up scenarios with numbers. I love itttt!

I've given up on RPGs because I think they're a waste of time but I can still fiddle with numbers and stats but in a much more realized manner here. I can get my number fiddling quota without having to deal with bad stories and cutscenes. Yeahhhh. :p
 
GrayFoxPL

GrayFoxPL

Member
Frame data isn't everything eg. you don't know how much push back on block move causes. Pauls deathfist is -17 but pushes back so far you need far reaching move to punish, hopkick will do nothing.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
GrayFoxPL said:
Frame data isn't everything eg. you don't know how much push back on block move causes. Pauls deathfist is -17 but pushes back so far you need far reaching move to punish, hopkick will do nothing.
Click to expand...

That's why I've been combining reading frame data with watching matches and move list vids. :)
 
LordKasual

LordKasual

Banned
FACE said:
??????????????????????????????????????????

You realize you can plink in SF4 which makes the game repeat your input on the next frame, right? There are a ton of games out there with 1f links and no plinking.
Click to expand...

Doing basic combos in 3rd strike felt 100x easier than in SF4 to me. Almost felt like SF4 had no button buffer, which is why plinking was required to make links come out.
 
G

GurgleBot20

Member
I swear, this entire genre is just impenetrable to me. 10 hours into Street Fighter IV and I've won 1 online match, and lose consistently in arcade mode as well, and the worst part is I don't even feel like I'm improving.

The thing is though, I get a basic sense of enjoyment out of playing fighting games. It's an enjoyment that's led to me buying Xmen Vs Street Fighter for the Saturn for 40 dollars, and what compels me to keep trying, but the very essence of how to even start playing is just lost on me.

I realize this is a dump thing to complain about in a thread that is made to help people get good in these games, but I feel like I'm missing out on what on got people into these games in the first place. I'm 25, and I never really played these games growing up, aside from Smash Brothers, and I get the impression that I missed out on the culture that surrounded these games, or what made people dedicate so much time into them.

I don't really know what I'm getting at, but I'll just say, what's the point of learning how to do a dragon punch if you can't figure out how to use it?
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
GurgleBot20 said:
I don't really know what I'm getting at, but I'll just say, what's the point of learning how to do a dragon punch if you can't figure out how to use it?
Click to expand...
First of all, let me just say this right from the get go. NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE GOOD AT FIGHTING GAMES. Fighting games are video games at the end of the day, and if you weren't having fun with a video game then you drop it.

Fighting games are at their heart a competitive genre. If you WANT to get better and beat that dude that's messing you up online, then chances are you WILL get better. This is why the arcade scene was such a melting pot for competition since you meet the same people, played the same games together and had that drive to be the best player in your area, or the best player in a certain competition. If you don't have that drive, then chances are you're unwilling to want to spend the effort and time required to get gud.

Which is NOT A BAD THING. Not everyone plays a sport to be at the top level, not everyone even puts in the time to be good at the sport. Sometimes you just do it with your buddies because it's fun. Yes, the competitive aspect of a fighting game is important but the SOCIAL aspect is even more important. Being around friends and playing the game together even if neither of you know how to actually play can still be just as fun but if you don't want to get better, then none of you have to.

Now about the actual act of getting better, it's a slow process. These are skills that you pick up over time by focusing on them, by realizing where you go wrong and you're going to make a lot of mistakes along the way. It helps to have a buddy or someone who can teach you but even without one you can still be good (I've done this by only playing online and by consulting tutorials and guides and focusing on my shortcomings). But here's the good part:

Once you learn how to play a character, you remember how to play him until at some point you stop playing. But if you learn the absolute basic fundamentals that apply to all fighting games, that's a skill you're never going to forget. And it's going to help you regardless of the game.
 
M

myco666

Member
GurgleBot20 said:
I swear, this entire genre is just impenetrable to me. 10 hours into Street Fighter IV and I've won 1 online match, and lose consistently in arcade mode as well, and the worst part is I don't even feel like I'm improving.

The thing is though, I get a basic sense of enjoyment out of playing fighting games. It's an enjoyment that's led to me buying Xmen Vs Street Fighter for the Saturn for 40 dollars, and what compels me to keep trying, but the very essence of how to even start playing is just lost on me.

I realize this is a dump thing to complain about in a thread that is made to help people get good in these games, but I feel like I'm missing out on what on got people into these games in the first place. I'm 25, and I never really played these games growing up, aside from Smash Brothers, and I get the impression that I missed out on the culture that surrounded these games, or what made people dedicate so much time into them.

I don't really know what I'm getting at, but I'll just say, what's the point of learning how to do a dragon punch if you can't figure out how to use it?
Click to expand...

Only winning one online match in a game that has been around almost ten years and you put only ten hours in is not really surprising. That would happen to probably everyone who was starting to get into fighting games now. The people still playing that game have played it way more than ten hours.

As for feeling like you are not improving is probably because you aren't training properly which is hard if you don't have anyone to coach you. It is way easier to focus on important stuff and your mistakes when you have someone that tells them to you instead of trying to figure them out yourself. Atleast I would like to believe that I would have learned to play FGs faster if I knew someone who knew how to play them.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
I don't disagree with lucebruce's statement that "not everyone needs to be good at fighting games" but I think there's an implied second part of that statement could read more like "not everyone needs to be good at fighting games, but if you want to learn one, pretty much anybody can become a decent player."

If you just started playing SFIV recently, it's going to be very difficult to win online for a while because the game has been around for 8(ish) years now, so at this stage of the game, most people online are going to at least be competent. It's a pretty different experience than if someone decides to get into something like Overwatch. In both the SFIV and Overwatch scenarios, you'll be bad at first, but there are some key differences that make a game like Overwatch more approachable:

1) It's a team-based game, so you can still get carried to victory even early in the learning process, and getting wins is obviously encouraging.

2) The player base is huge, so it's much easier for the online matchmaking system to find you similarly skilled opponents to play against.

3) It's a team-based game, so you can take solace in your individual performance being good (even if it may not be) in the face of a loss.

4) It's in a genre where single-player modes are somewhat better at teaching you the fundamentals of the genre, and it's a generally popular genre, so many (most?) players are coming in with some fundamental skills, at the very least.

5) It's a team-based game, so you can play on the same team as real life friends and they can explain things to you as they happen in voice chat or whatever.

6) It's a team-based game, so you can blame others when you lose and don't have to take any personal responsibility for the team's performance, but when you win, there's a natural tendency to credit your personal contribution.

I think it's really important to realize that a lot of the time when people say "fighting games are impenetrable" they actually should be saying "1-on-1 competitive games are significantly harder to get into than team-based games." I think fighting games get stuck with their image because they're a lot of people's first time really trying out a competitive online 1v1 game. If 1v1 arena shooters were a huge genre, I think people would say exactly the same things about them that they say about fighters.

If the absolute basics of fighting games are something you want to learn, I would recommend watching something like Sirlin's beginner Street Fighter II videos, as they are pretty great for wrapping you head around the basics of the genre.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
GurgleBot20 said:
I swear, this entire genre is just impenetrable to me. 10 hours into Street Fighter IV and I've won 1 online match, and lose consistently in arcade mode as well, and the worst part is I don't even feel like I'm improving.
Click to expand...

Most players at your level moved probably to SFV.
 
K

KLonso

Member
I'm looking at picking up either Injustice 2, Tekken 7, or SFV (it's 50% off right now on PSN, seems like pretty good value).

I'm bad at fighting games but I'm interested in learning, and I'd prefer a game with good online play because. Which game should I buy?
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
KLonso said:
I'm looking at picking up either Injustice 2, Tekken 7, or SFV (it's 50% off right now on PSN, seems like pretty good value).

I'm bad at fighting games but I'm interested in learning, and I'd prefer a game with good online play because. Which game should I buy?
Click to expand...

SF5 has a big playerbase and lots of resources to help with learning. The online seems to vary a lot, for me personally it was bad enough often enough to drop the game. Gameplay-wise it's perhaps the most 'vanilla' of the three games. I wouldn't recommend it myself because it has disappointed me on many levels but there are A LOT of people who play and love this game.

Injustice 2 supposedly has amazing online and also has great single player stuff to mess with. And it has Batman. Gameplay can tend toward pretty extreme states, like you can get destroyed by a lot of very fast projectiles and literally never get close, or rushed down and mauled before you can do much. On the upside you can learn to do this to other people as well. NRS games have a very dedicated community so i'm sure you can find folks to play with.

Tekken 7, from early impressions, seems to have good online. It's the game i play above all others, so i can't really recommend it without sounding biased. I'll just say i love the cast and how diverse it is, i love the deep gameplay and the clean back and forth of Tekken matches, and learning how to get better by playing with tekkengaf has been an amazing experience so far. Gameplay-wise Tekken is a 3D game so it's a bit slower and more things are reactable. It also has much less of a focus on projectiles and is a bit more about up close and personal fighting i guess.
 
D

DunpealD

Member
KLonso said:
I'm looking at picking up either Injustice 2, Tekken 7, or SFV (it's 50% off right now on PSN, seems like pretty good value).

I'm bad at fighting games but I'm interested in learning, and I'd prefer a game with good online play because. Which game should I buy?
Click to expand...

I'm not too sure, because it's all a matter of preference.
All three are good games to play, but also really different.

You should take a look at all three and see which would jive with you.
 
F

FACE

Banned
LordKasual said:
Doing basic combos in 3rd strike felt 100x easier than in SF4 to me. Almost felt like SF4 had no button buffer, which is why plinking was required to make links come out.
Click to expand...

That's because you can't cancel out of chains in SF4 for whatever reason, so most character's basic combos are link-based. That doesn't mean that links in SF4 are harder than in previous SF games(if anything they're easier due to plinking) and SF3/A3/SF2 have stuff that is much harder to execute than pretty much anything in 4.

SF4(or 3S) has no button buffer as far as I know, at least nothing that comes close to SF5.
 
zenspider

zenspider

Member
dbztrk said:
So I downloaded SFV today and I tried to do the trials and I gave up on the first Ryu trial. I couldn't do jump + hard punch - medium punch - hard punch - hard kick. Lol

The funny thing is I don't remember being this bad at street fighter. I used to be pretty decent back in the alpha days.
Click to expand...

Don't give up! Break it down into two parts: the jump-in (jHP, sMP) and the target combo (sHP sHK).

Try the target combo on the ground and get the timing of it down. Once you have that down, jump-in and land it. Remember not to hit the jumping attack to early, or the rest won't combo.
 
A

Astral

Member
I have probably three main problems when it comes to fighting games.

1. Poor execution
2. Poor reaction time
3. Quick to plateau

I can't count how many matches I've lost because I dropped an important combo or failed to block an overhead. Three probably bothers me the most though. I usually pick a character I like, practice their basics online, hit challenge mode in the case of ArcSys games, make practical combos out of the ones on challenge mode, look up additional combos online if all challenge combos are stupid, practice against the a.i., and finally practice online. The problem is, I seem to peak too early. It's too hard for me to do some of the more complex combos so I give up on those, but it's also hard for me to level up my fundamentals. After a while, I don't feel like I'm improving or getting worse. I just stay the same.
 
M

myco666

Member
Astral said:
I have probably three main problems when it comes to fighting games.

1. Poor execution
2. Poor reaction time
3. Quick to plateau

I can't count how many matches I've lost because I dropped an important combo or failed to block an overhead. Three probably bothers me the most though. I usually pick a character I like, practice their basics online, hit challenge mode in the case of ArcSys games, make practical combos out of the ones on challenge mode, look up additional combos online if all challenge combos are stupid, practice against the a.i., and finally practice online. The problem is, I seem to peak too early. It's too hard for me to do some of the more complex combos so I give up on those, but it's also hard for me to level up my fundamentals. After a while, I don't feel like I'm improving or getting worse. I just stay the same.
Click to expand...

Do you have people to play against who can give you advice/train with you? I find that trying to improve all by yourself is very hard.
 
Z

zoodoo

Member
Does somebody here have experience with samurai showdown 5?

My nephew is challenging me and I cant figure out how to play it. i am used to fighting games so I am familiar with inputs. My issue is the fact that this game is so strict.

What are the mechanics? How do I parry? What is the bar under your life bar? There is so little info out there on this series.
 
A

Astral

Member
myco666 said:
Do you have people to play against who can give you advice/train with you? I find that trying to improve all by yourself is very hard.
Click to expand...

I usually play a couple of friends online and my cousins. My cousins mostly though. The only problem is that I'm way better than all of them so I get no challenge and they get frustrated. The best training I ever got was probably playing Soul Calibur V with one of my cousins because our skills were about the same. We were always back and forth. Where the fuck is SCVI though!?
 
Shanaynay

Shanaynay

Member
I recently began giving fighting games a shot, it's a difficult process but i feel like i'm getting a bit better at them.

I also decided to purchase an Hori fightstick mini (brand new at a nice price too) and i'm waiting for it to get here, i was wondering if anyone, here in this thread, tried one, how good are they? I figure it would be a good introduction to fightstick before buying "the real deal" if it comes to it.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Man it's a shame this thread isn't as active as it should be :(

I thought that after EVO there would be more folks trying to git gud at fighting games and giving up after a few matches as is customary. Maybe with this thread, we could stop them from giving up!
Timedog said:
I am basically a good at Street Fighter.
Click to expand...
I believe you.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
It’s been years and I’m no longer a noob.

My current level.



Two sets against this Claw in ST ranked. Second set is tense af.
 
Last edited:
oxrock

oxrock

Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
I haven't really played fighting games for years, what are the most recent competitive ones?
 
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