Kinda agree.
Especially with the last line. No other game did the dodge viper round the laguna seca like that.
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Has Sony mismanaged the Gran Turismo franchise? If so, why?
- Thread starter Kralamoonard
- Start date
Kinda agree.
Especially with the last line. No other game did the dodge viper round the laguna seca like that.
OmegaDL50
Member
Considering the direction of the last few GT Academy demos were heading, It's say GTS is the game that solidified as a result of it. It's caters far more to the GT Academy / Real Racing Sim crowd as opposed to the GT folks that want their Sunday Cup and Jazz Music.
dugdug
Banned
Not sure where you're getting 4 Forza Motorsport games, unless you're including Horizon?
That's still better than the 0 GT games we have so far, but, there are definitely only two FM games on XB1. None of the 360 games are BC yet.
OmegaDL50
Member
Yup, look at Driveclub for example.
Yep. Look at Driveclub. It's unrecognizeable now vs. launch. That said there's a whole debate on score at release vs. re-score later. But it's undeniable that at launch GT5 was highly inconsistent. I worry Sport will be the same simply based on history and the fact that they are still not showing detail in a lot of areas where we have questions. And I worry they will immediately move to Sport 2 to fix those issues and come our in PS4's lifetime, instead of fixing issues and making it a living product.
fabricated backlash
Member
Gran Turismo just has gone to shit with feature creep. It became more important to have numbers over actual quality, which is not what I enjoyed about the PS2 games.
Yep DriveClub is a great example. Even still, since GT isnt the only game to get post release patches that improve the game, noting it got better over time which could help it review better against the competition is sort of meaningless.
I fully agree with this.
That said there is something to the old argument of inconsistent reviews for games that play it safe in terms of features and boundaries and are more polished and games that push boundaries but lack polish. Across various genres, racing included.
Experiments can be cool and pay off and make you a classic, or can horribly backfire, and it's hard to figure which is which when you review on day 1 and you don't have either a fan reaction or a test of time and refinement of the vision or pushing of the original boundaries through patching.
From my perspective the games are great. They just absolutely release at the wrong times in the system's lifecycle, to the point that casual racing fans like me really don't get a chance to give them a shot.
As an example the only racing game I've played on PS4 is Driveclub. It's very good, but let's be honest, the only reason people are playing it is is because GT isn't available on the platform.
Given the average PS consoles lifespan it seems clear they should target the mainline releases for early in the lifecycle, then potentially a sequel or spinoff to appear a few years later. Instead they're doing the opposite, which does nothing to help expand the audience for GT.
As an example the only racing game I've played on PS4 is Driveclub. It's very good, but let's be honest, the only reason people are playing it is is because GT isn't available on the platform.
Given the average PS consoles lifespan it seems clear they should target the mainline releases for early in the lifecycle, then potentially a sequel or spinoff to appear a few years later. Instead they're doing the opposite, which does nothing to help expand the audience for GT.
IISANDERII
Member
It doesn't need excuses, I'm just explaining why it sold so well.
Tomeru
Member
I think GT Sport is proof that KY knows that theyre not in a vacuum anymore. If the game will sell or be good/bad is a whole different topic.
I think when a publisher releases a $40 prologue to a game, then the "full" version releases in the kind of shape GT5 was for basically its entire lifetime, that's frustrating for buyers. The standards for GT are lower now than at any point in its history.
shortsoptional
Member
I wonder if PD (and Media Molecule for that matter) have been delayed in development due to the inclusion of VR?
MaximusPayne
Member
When does this game come out? I have literally heard zero about it while I see Forza 7 ads everywhere.
I've been wondering for some time now. What do these people screaming about "Fire Kaz!! He is ruining GT!!" actually want from the games?
For YEARS the vocal minority had two major hooks:
GT Sport is the perfect example of a game platform. It will evolve and change a lot over time - hence they wont call it GT7. We might end up with 60+ tracks and maybe even close to 1000 cars until the end of the PS4's life cycle. Perhaps even a classic GT mode? Who knows. The game has a lot of potential and PD has been supporting GT5 and GT6 with consistent content updates (ask anyone who tried to install GT6 with its 50GB of patches through the awful PS3 updater). I am excited to see where the game is going. If I want my unchanged same-old-same-old experience, there are tons of similar games to chose from these days.
For YEARS the vocal minority had two major hooks:
- GT's Online sucks! Improve online! Give us leagues and series and tools to manage our online experience! Also screw classic GT mode since no one is playing this grindy single player shit!
- Why 1000+ cars? We HATE to look at standard car models while we pretend playing a racing sim in 3rd person mode. Just make 300 or so great models that wont hurt our eyes!
GT Sport is the perfect example of a game platform. It will evolve and change a lot over time - hence they wont call it GT7. We might end up with 60+ tracks and maybe even close to 1000 cars until the end of the PS4's life cycle. Perhaps even a classic GT mode? Who knows. The game has a lot of potential and PD has been supporting GT5 and GT6 with consistent content updates (ask anyone who tried to install GT6 with its 50GB of patches through the awful PS3 updater). I am excited to see where the game is going. If I want my unchanged same-old-same-old experience, there are tons of similar games to chose from these days.
I think it's possible you may be conflating different people saying different things, so it's easier to brush off criticism. We're still likely to see great overall results in GTS, but to the substance of your point, making a good online mode in a racing game doesn't mean you're unable to include a traditional single-player career. Gran Turismo is popular, in part, for that sort of solo experience.
CloudStrife_ca
Member
I feel like the series has been mismanaged abit forsure, at the same time the work and detail that goes into the physics of each car is unmatched and therefore takes longer to develop.
At the same time theres no excuse we never got a port of GT6 on the PS4 and barely any advertising has been done for the series since.
GT is pretty much a guaranteed commercial success but theres no reason to leave the fan base that makes it a commercial success in the dark for so long. Shame.
At the same time theres no excuse we never got a port of GT6 on the PS4 and barely any advertising has been done for the series since.
GT is pretty much a guaranteed commercial success but theres no reason to leave the fan base that makes it a commercial success in the dark for so long. Shame.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Definitely this. There should be at least three GT's per gen imo.
DarkConfidant
Member
They shouldn't have made GT6 probably, but besides that possibility, no. I don't think they have.
GT6 executed on some ideas incredibly well, and overcame some technical goofs that otherwise marred GT5. The Star system for career races I thought was a worthwhile career progression improvement, and even just having the streamlined install/update setup compared to GT5 made it a substantially smoother game to get into. The inconsistent quality and vehicle options were annoying, but that was still a lot of content.
Yeah, the performance made it hard to enjoy, full stop, but they were fighting the worst hardware engineering of that entire gen. GT6 gets a worse rap than it deserves. I'd have LOVED to play it on PS4.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
In my opinion, this could be the greatest entry in the series to date and it still wouldn't sell the immense numbers it's had in the past. The messaging has been horrendous.
At least half of the prospective market thinks it's some kind of 'lite' version similar to previous Prologue entries, while many others simply don't know.
'Offline' features have been criminally undersold, but that'll perhaps make more sense when the final sting in the tail is revealed.
At least half of the prospective market thinks it's some kind of 'lite' version similar to previous Prologue entries, while many others simply don't know.
'Offline' features have been criminally undersold, but that'll perhaps make more sense when the final sting in the tail is revealed.
Interficium
Banned
I understand both standpoints. I love GT for the Pokemon-but-with-cars part and I love just tinkering with the settings of a random car and taking it out for some online racing with friends or strangers.
GT games are popular because they have something for every racing fan and/or car enthusiast. If GTS is sticking to this philosophy without being "the same" why is that a problem? Is that not the progress people have been asking for?
SkylineRKR
Member
As if the same person would've demanded both things. There have always been camps. Its the same with FPS. One camp wants MP focus and the other laments the lack of a meaty SP.
Anyway, I'm fine with 200 cars honestly, if they aren't carbon copies and certainly no fucking standard models. How many do I use... perhaps 10, 15... Some career play would be fine, but if the AI is just as shit as its always been then I'm leaning towards not caring if its been left out. Still, simple things like a championship or arcade mode are desired by a lot of gamers. We've also seen this with fighting games. Consumers generally want the full package; a reasonable amount of offline and online content.
What if the online in GTS tanks, while the game almost exclusively relies on it. You'll get a worse situation than with Driveclub.
VectorVictor
Member
There was a thread a while ago to predict the review scores for Project Cars 2, FM7 and GTS, with a comparison chart for past reviews for all of their series.
You can see that Gran Turismo series peaked at GT3, then subsequently drop to 80s range since then. Forza on the other hand, has increased for the past 3 titles. PCars1 and now 2 is consistently getting 80s and 90s.
I don't think it's exactly fair to include Forza Horizon scores in this, IMO. Different genre/type of game than GT/Forza/Project Cars.
Man, Forza 5 took a dive. Was it rushed to coincide with the XB1 launch and be a technical showpiece?
And here's hoping Forza 7 improves substantially on 6. 6 was great...but I'm hoping they don't go the 5 route and focus on graphics over gameplay and options again...
I think that this can be related to gears or halo, but forza?
Forza 5 was an ok game for xbox one, good graphics but boring game. Much better than forza 2 when relased.
Forza horizon 2 was really cool.
Forza 6 was a very excellent game, improving every aspect of forza 5 (the forza 3 of xbox one)
Forza horizon 3 is definetly outstanding, it is the pgr 4 for xbox one, but selling much more, it is like a baby from bizarre creations and turn 10.
Forza 7 seems to be the forza 4 for xbox one, a much more polished forza 6.
I just hope that story mode turns better. Forza 6 is interesting in this way and forza 5 is a nonsense of infinite categories. They should introduce pgr like events (as in 6) and a more inmmersive campaign mode that seems to be done in f7 for the first time in the series.
In contraposition forza 2 was awful in my opinion.
I think poliphony could deliver a great mainline game every 3 years.
It is good for racing enthusiasts to have a lot of great racing franchises, it benefits us for having a great improvement because of competitors.
Asseto corsa and project cars are wonderful too!
NullPointer
Member
They sure as hell haven't managed expectations, nor is there much clarity on the game's features and limitations this close to release. Its also been one hell of a long wait for a game that was shown off in trailers in the earliest reveals of the PS4.
So on those accounts I'd say yes.
I'd throw in that killing off DriveClub was an shit move, and GT is no replacement for what that game offered.
So on those accounts I'd say yes.
I'd throw in that killing off DriveClub was an shit move, and GT is no replacement for what that game offered.
NullPointer
Member
I could see that but it really depends what you're looking for.
Its nice that there are some very distinct games to choose from right now. Forza's a known quality, and solid as ever. GT is making a big play for online competitive, and Project Cars 2 is a true challenger to those giants.
Graphics Horse
Member
GT5's very popular online being shutdown a few months after GT6 launch didn't exactly inspire confidence in how they handle it.
TylerDurden4321
Member
No, it was pretty polished, but there was the microtransactions debate, it also a lot less grip than any other Forza or GT (still is the lowest, grip went up from 5 to 6 and now seems up again a tiny little bit), it had a lot less cars and tracks(200 cars and 19 tracks is what I remember) obviously because they redid so many assets.
But Turn 10 put out 3 tracks for free within 7 months, one of them was the first laserscanned Nordschleife (only Assetto Corsa on PC had it laserscanned before as far as I know). To be fair GT's Nordschleife was always amazingly good and accurate too.
Yeah, I think people see the metacritic average for F5 and assume the game had particular issues with the gameplay, but the main sticking point I remember from critical reviews came from having less content than the games before it. The generational jump very much accounted for that drop in content; they built the assets around current-gen the same way PD is with GTS. I'm not sure what to expect from reviews for GTS as the first GT of the generation, with less content in some areas than even Forza 5 had for its console launch.
Audioboxer
Member
GTS will be the biggest GT review bloodshed in the series. I think the bet to take right now is whether or not Knack 2 will score higher on metacritic. Not to mention I bet it'll be the most traded in GT when some more casual gamers wonder why they paid $60 for a slightly more fleshed out prologue SP experience.
If Kaz doesn't either step down or hire more staff after GTS (another project manager/producer is a must) I dread to think what the next GT for the end of the PS5 lifecycle will be like. "We had to do it from the ground up again, please be happy with 80 cars, 10 tracks and this time it's really only multiplayer. The fans didn't like the shitty SP in GTS so we just scrapped it completely, please understand and enjoy photomode".
If Kaz doesn't either step down or hire more staff after GTS (another project manager/producer is a must) I dread to think what the next GT for the end of the PS5 lifecycle will be like. "We had to do it from the ground up again, please be happy with 80 cars, 10 tracks and this time it's really only multiplayer. The fans didn't like the shitty SP in GTS so we just scrapped it completely, please understand and enjoy photomode".
gutterboy44
Member
If you care about sales numbers, GT is fine and probably has another two to three mediocre games in them before nostalgia dries up or someone does it better on Playstation. If you care about racing games and are a long time GT fan...it's been down hill and mismanaged for ages. You can't deny there is mismanagement regardless of sales figures. GT5 was being played by people in EU , streamed online and Sony/PD had yet to even announce its release date. I have never seen anything like that in my life.
I'd buy a GT3 HD
NullPointer
Member
With no classic GT career mode, far less content than the previous title, some online-only restrictions and more direct competition than ever?
That seems optimistic. No doubt it'll sell very well, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it take a significant dip.
I'm sure as hell no analyst, but that seems like a common sense argument. I just can't believe that everybody that bought GT6 is on-board for GT Sport's new focus, especially when there are other choices available.
Kralamoonard
Member
I genuinely don't get the point of this post, it just seems downright condescending.
There's a reason why I framed the title the way I did - it was to hear a perspective from both sides, and no where did I insinuate what you did but rather leave it open to debate.
The point is, there's clearly something that has been lost in regards to GT's popularity, despite it still being relatively popular. That's not criticism but just a fact -- wherher thats insignificant or a result of mismanagement is why I posted my question the way it is - you can tell me otherwise.
I'd be very interested in hearing why you disagree. No need for the snark lol.
I think so. GTS seemed like it was just going to be a mid priced demo like Prologue was. Turns out it's a full game with a $60 price tag that comes out a year or two after it should have. I literally have no interest now that F7 is launching during the same window.
I doubt we'll see GT7 before the PS5 is announced.
I doubt we'll see GT7 before the PS5 is announced.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
The fact that Sony slowly killed every studio that made a racing game for them in the past 12 years, but allowed the one close to home to do whatever the fuck they want and ship a game once every 4 years as series sales declined....
The answer is yes.
There was some sort of article about this wasn't there? How companies like Sony constantly squeeze, cutback and ultimately close teams and offices more often the farther they are from HQ while the people they know face to face who have issues continue to operate undisturbed.
The answer is yes.
There was some sort of article about this wasn't there? How companies like Sony constantly squeeze, cutback and ultimately close teams and offices more often the farther they are from HQ while the people they know face to face who have issues continue to operate undisturbed.
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