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[TheAdmiester]

Looks even worse when you have Forza that consistently releases a product of a high quality.

This is the thing that gets me most about PD. Fair enough if you take forever to release a game in the name of perfecting it, but when the competition releases every two years AND is a better/higher quality game, then what are you doing?

 

[toneroni]

Sort of yes. It’s one of the few things Microsoft does better - consistently good forza games are released on a consistent basis. Gran turismo takes forever in comparison.

Yep, GT used to be the GOAT.
I'd bet half of the Forza team grew up playing GT...

 

[MaDKaT]

Forza 7 has 700+ cars on a 2 year dev cycle though?

Yeah, that is an odd comment. Forza has been going toe to toe with GTs car count for quite some time. Especially when you remove the ridiculous amounts cars that only have aesthetic trim differences.

As to the OP

As a very long time fan, since GT1 and have owned them all

6 main games plus 5XL
2 Prologue
4 Demos
2 Concept games
1 PSP
And the excellent Tourist Trophy

It just feels like PD puts a lot of emphasis on things they don't really need instead of fixing the things that are not good. Honestly, the last truly great GT was GT3. Going into a new gen on the PS2 it was just a very lean and well laid out experience. However from there they just kept doubling down on content with car counts and modes (dragging PSP/PS2 models onto the PS3, moon buggy?, etc....), overly complex menus and just losing focus. Ignoring things like AI, sound, and the fact that it is still a game and not really paying attention to the competition. Now with Sport, as a long time fan, I think it is great they are fleshing out the online, it surely needed it but at the same time I feel they just dumped half the game and stripped out what GT was about. The single player reduced to more or less what was offered in the Prologue games(tutorial/mission hell), car building looks to be out with only some tuning left over. What Ive seen of the new game just looks like an online Prologue with a token mission mode for those that can't get online. Just doesn't feel like a GT release and for the first time in nearly 20 years, I am just not excited about it. Bought a PS2 for GT, modded a PS2 for Imports, PS3 for GT, PS4 for what I hoped would be a GT near launch. How could they not at least try to port GT6 to it early on? If they did I would probably still have a PS4. As it stands they have pretty much lost me.

 

[LukasTaves]

PD are stubborn when it comes to outsourcing busywork.

They just wont do it.

It slows them down considerably and makes games feel unfinished and outdated when they come out.

Seems like they still have not fully caught up to the HD era.

I remember some presentations from them touting outsourcing around ps3 launch.

What happened since them that made them adverse to it?

 

[GlamFM]

I remember some presentations from them touting outsourcing around ps3 launch.

What happened since them that made them adverse to it?

Don’t know about this. AFAIK they don’t do to it. I could be wrong of course.

Here’s an article that I found, no clue if it’s accurate.

https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-y...g-to-help-development-of-gran-turismo-titles/

 

[shouamabane]

Nope. I've liked all of the games. Which is what matters to me.

 

[SilentRob]

I'd say Polyphony mismanaged the Gran Turimo franchise by making GT 5 & 6.

 

[Teletraan1]

It is funny because Sony is usually pretty big on single player experiences but this game has such a big focus on MP racing, something that I have not enjoyed in any racing game to date. I remember playing GT1-3 with friends and often we would just take turns trying to complete the single player campaign objectives rather than racing each other. I personally loved the single player aspect of the previous games and since I skipped GT6 due to it not being on a system I owned at the time of release (I sold my PS3 to get a PS4) I am thirsty for more of that experience. I will probably check out Forza now that I can play it on my PC or something else in the hope it has what I am looking for.

So on a personal level yes, I think the series has been mismanaged a bit, especially if their release is driving me to the competitor. Had this game included everything, a rich SP campaign and the entirety of this game. Well, it would probably release after PS5 is out so that just points to more mismanagement. Especially when you see examples of other development teams putting out comparable and even more feature rich games at a quicker pace.

 

[Basarili]

I remember back in the days when I was behind the counter. The GT games where selling incredible on day one. It was a public between the age of 35-50 mostly. I can't remember another game where the age of the buyer was so high.

 

[GlamFM]

Nope. I've liked all of the games. Which is what matters to me.

Which is also not what this thread is about.

 

[amdb00mer]

They really needed to get GT launches in sync with hardware launches.

GT6 should have been on PS4. It's ridiculous it wasn't. And while the game continue to be full of innovative and interesting little features - such as changing colours on cars in video - the core experience is mismanaged. For me the series hit a peak at GT3 and his been in decline since then.

I wish there was a stronger focus on performance. Turn10's refusal to compromise on 60fps has been the strongest element of the Forza series. Whereas GT has been blighted in recent interactions with choppy frame rates and tearing.

And graphic qualities have suffered because the focus seems on making wonderful screenshots. For sharing in forum threads GT games are the most beautiful. But when actually playing? Nah.

All the lovely photo modes in the world don't make up for poor frame rate and tearing.

My thoughts exactly. GT to GT3 was the tops. Then Forza came out at the end of the Original Xbox's life and was so impressive that ever since then PD has either tried to emulate or outdo it instead of just focusing on what made GT great and improving on it. Also, PD has been working on GT games way longer than Turn10 with Forza. Maybe Sony should let them take a break and make another Omega Boost game or something else. A real break might be exactly what they need.

 

[The_Lump]

Looking at how the competition has progressed, yes. The last Gran Turismo felt stale alongside other sim-like racers, and looking at Project Cars 2 for example, the next GT will be hard pushed to exceed if Polyphony don't open up their formula a bit and start pushing the boundaries again.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Don’t know about this. AFAIK they don’t do to it. I could be wrong of course.

Here’s an article that I found, no clue if it’s accurate.

https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-y...g-to-help-development-of-gran-turismo-titles/

Quite why they didn't speak with the likes of Evolution and such for their car models baffles me, same with possibly their weather tech.

 

[momshotdad]

I think the time between titles is super, super long especially since Forza will have put out 3 on the XB1 in the time since the last GT.

 

[KageMaru]

I don't think Sony mismanaged anything, but mistakes have been made. GT6 should have been cross platform with the PS3 and PS4. Even if the PS4 version came out later, it would have been a great way for them to become familiar with the new hardware and provide content at the same time.

I also think it was a mistake to focus on online gaming and e-sports with GTS. I don't get many racing games but was interested in getting GTS, PC2, or Forza 7 as my go to sim. The moment I found out about the online focus and lack of proper campaign/career mode in GTS, it was dropped from the list. That sucks as the PS4 has been my primary console this gen and PC2 doesn't look too great on on the PS4.

 

[LewieP]

6 really should have been an early PS4 game, then they could have left drive club in the oven longer.

Franchise is doing fine, but the PS4 would have got a boost, and maybe they'd have two big racing series now.

 

[AndyD]

GT6 not being on PS4 at launch is the only clear point of mismanagement I can point to. My personal opinion of PD being the most dedicated studio in providing a boring and sterile product on the planet, has nothing to do with the actual reception of their titles.

I also think this was a significant mis-step. If it would have been launch window it would have been better received. As is, the gap to Sport is too large at this point, and from the previews it does not seem to really be so advanced to warrant the wait.

That said, Sony also failed to fill the gap with other games. Driveclub is great, but it was killed, and we don't have an off-road game like we should.

 

[tilomite!]

I feel like GT has been mismanaged just from what Forza has been able to put out. GT just takes too long to develop.

 

[VectorVictor]

I'd say Polyphony mismanaged the Gran Turimo franchise by making GT 5 & 6.

Gran Turismo was being horribly "mismanaged" well before this point. I'd even suggest after 3 that the series was being eclipsed by the Forza series.

And one of the things I remember Microsoft talking about when they made Forza 3 is that they were doing high-resolution/4K modeling and high-definition audio for all of the cars at that time so they could bank that data and not have to recreate the proverbial wheel every time they made these games--they made high-res assets and downgraded accordingly.

I say this because I don't think Polyphony was forward thinking in this regard until now--they're now doing 8K modeling and making a library of assets to use going forward to mimic the success and speed Forza has already achieved. This takes time to accomplish, and once they get this done...it will allow them time to shore up other lacking aspects of the GT series (e.g. driver AI, course selection, single player experience)

I think we'll see a vastly improved GT series with more frequent iterations once they get this all complete. GT Sport strikes me as a stop-gap just to show fans that 'hey, we haven't forgotten about the GT series...give us some money please!' and to help fund their ongoing efforts.

I fully do expect the next GT game to be incredible...but even then, it's probably going to have to leap a tall hurdle that Forza 7 (and let's be honest...Forza 8) will likely set.

 

[Lothars]

I don't think it's fair to compare any of the Horizon games against GT. Strip those games out and still Forza has the edge, but it's much less of a consistent story than you're suggesting.

I don't think Forza has ever had the edge. Yes they have released 3 mainline forza titles but I don't think any of them are as good as forza 4 was or GT5/6 was. I also think Forza 5 is the worst forza game released by a wide margin. Forza 6 is pretty good but meh to me and I have no interest in 7 because of how they have been treating the forza franchise. The only thing that has saved the forza franchise is the horizon games and they are incredible. If GT sport comes out and is a great game and sells good than I don't think they have anything to worry about. Heck I'd still be interested to see how GT7 does if it ever comes out.

I think the time between titles is super, super long especially since Forza will have put out 3 on the XB1 in the time since the last GT.

Yeah but that's not a boon for Forza imo plus when one GT games outsells forza games by that margin they can afford to take their time.

I think the one misstep Sony did make is like most others say is not releasing GT6 for PS4 as well.

 

[inner-G]

They've totally dropped the ball

It's like they started GTS with the idea of selling DLC and then worked backwards. People lhave always liked GT because you got so much content. Anything less feels like a rip-off.

 

[Neuromancer]

If I recall correctly GT absolutely mollywops Forza in sales, even though there are many more Forza games. In the end sales are the only thing that matters to Sony. I have no reason to believe GT Sport sales are going to be anything but excellent. So, I would say no.

 

[Mobius 1]

Ah yes, the annual “I would manage Polyphony Digital better than the people that made it successful over 20 straight years” thread.

 

[Cake Boss]

GT series peaked with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYy2trd0Hu4

Give me this in HD assets over the crap that GTSport is trying to be any day.

 

[offshore]

How is this even a question? lol. Of course they've been mismanaged. Four years into the PS4's life and we're getting a drastically cut-down GT for reasons that don't make any sense to anybody.

 

[PantsuJo]

I also think it was a mistake to focus on online gaming and e-sports with GTS. I don't get many racing games but was interested in getting GTS, PC2, or Forza 7 as my go to sim. The moment I found out about the online focus and lack of proper campaign/career mode in GTS, it was dropped from the list.

So much this.

 

[KORNdoggy]

GT series peaked with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYy2trd0Hu4

Give me this in HD assets over the crap that GTSport is trying to be any day.

it's crazy how that video reflects what i remember GT 1/2 looking like. either GT4 looks terrible, or i'm remembering GT2 looking way better than it did lol

 

[Venom.]

If the games are poor quality then that is something you can justifiably criticise.

But don't criticise Sony for not churning out a new Gran Turismo game every year.

 

[dugdug]

The only real problem I have with Forza is that we've now had so many of them that I'm finding it hard to really get excited about FM7. Even after playing the demo last night, I came away thinking "yep, that's another Forza Motorsport game." Which is fine. I'm sure it'll meet the quality of the previous FM games, but, it isn't particularly exciting.

Contrast with GTS, and, even though I'm not sure how to feel about GTS right now, I'm still excited for it. It may take too long for PD to actually make the damn games, but, there's still a level of excitement I have for the franchise that I just don't have anymore for other sim racers.

 

[Shin]

They mismanaged Kaz.

Too much freedom and minimal pressure rarely results in anything positive when you're dealing with a perfectionist.

Pretty much this, IMO they should boot them and get someone new or he shapes up.
It's been proven that you can release a quality racing game in a timely manner, he is the problem IMO.

 

[Foxy the Fox]

Forza ate them lunch big time.

 

[paulogy]

How would you market this game? What's new / exciting about it that might resonate with the average gamer?

Not trying to be difficult, I honestly don't know. I would have thought the PSVR component would have been a key differentiator, but that seems to be more of a side mode.

 

[fortunato]

Well, you don't see what I see. Show me a PS3 game that sold > 5 million copies after PS4 launch. I can name only 1-2 games – GTA V and maybe Minecraft. That's it.

So what? It simply means that Sony was wrong in launching the game so late in PS3 lifecycle and do not bother in developing a PS4 version.

GT was a consistent 10m+ sellers. GT5 sold as much mainly thanks to bundles and promotions. GT6 didn't have much of that and it sold just above 5m units. Huge drop.

 

[SpideySenses]

Evolution should have been the second GT Studio, getting out sister games on a more regular basis, sharing tech and assets to speed up development for both studios. It's not as easy as it sounds on paper but if Microsoft can manage it would Turn 10 and Playground, Sony should have absolutely given it a shot.

 

[th4tguy]

Yes it's being mismanaged. Other series come out every other year with better tech, features, and arguably gameplay. It doesn't make GT games bad, it just makes the long development times not make sense.

 

[Shambalakan]

GT series peaked with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYy2trd0Hu4

Give me this in HD assets over the crap that GTSport is trying to be any day.

Completely agree. I know most people like GT3 more than GT4, but 4 was the best one for me.
Amazing graphics for it's time, great gameplay, hundreds of events and outstanding collection of cars and tracks with great quality and diversity. Tracks from Nurburgring to Grand Canyon and cars from 1886 to 2022!! It was like a heaven for me!
And it had the best intro of all times! (J version with Moon Over the Castle)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdodxdyo75U

 

[jett]

Polyphony has been mismanaging itself for years. I'm honestly not sure what Kazunori Yamauchi brings to this franchise or Sony as a whole anymore. GT probably desperately needs some new blood in charge.

Evolution should have been the second GT Studio, getting out sister games on a more regular basis, sharing tech and assets to speed up development for both studios. It's not as easy as it sounds on paper but if Microsoft can manage it would Turn 10 and Playground, Sony should have absolutely given it a shot.

I've read before that the idea is that they wanted Driveclub to be under the GT umbrella, but Yamauchi shot it down.

 

[Jigorath]

Polyphony is a dinosaur.

 

[dugdug]

How would you market this game? What's new / exciting about it that might resonate with the average gamer?

Not trying to be difficult, I honestly don't know. I would have thought the PSVR component would have been a key differentiator, but that seems to be more of a side mode.

I think they're actually marketing GTS accurately. GTS is seemingly shaking up the GT formula, focusing more on online racing. I think they're a bit late to focus on online gaming, but, it's an interesting step to take, provided they can pull it off. I'm skeptical they can, but, I appreciate them trying to shake things up.

Now, whether or not that's enough to actually sell, we'll see.

 

[Glasfrut]

I also think it was a mistake to focus on online gaming and e-sports with GTS.

Unless if the intent is to go after people livestreaming the game, the possible ESPN broadcasts, and the synergy afforded by the FIA trying to also go the direction of building an audience outside of their traditional spaces.

Could this still have been done with a traditional campaign mode and the like? (I think so, and really wish they had done so). It seems like this is a logical evolution of the GT Academy idea.

I've never been a fan of games hinging so much on online, but maybe I'm not the intended audience here. Which raises the question: are they looking for sales, or are the "strategic" partnerships and marketing hinting at a different goal for Sony/Polyphony?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Forza 7 has 700+ cars on a 2 year dev cycle though?

Do you honestly think they're remaking those assets every two years?

Also, asset quality in Forza games isn't as high as GT games.

Equally, they've had the customization features for longer, thus are able to build on a pre-existing portfolio of assets which have already been developed with the customization system in mind.

None of this applies to GTS and PD, hence the drop in car count from GT6 to GTS.

 

[ty_hot]

I was about to say that they do not release enough games, but GTA is more or less the same

We had:

3 GTAs on PS2
2 GTAs on PS3 (cross with PS4)

2 GTs on PS2
2 GTs on PS3

Not counting the mobile GTA games ofc (but also not counting the GT for PSP, the Prologues and Tourist Trophy).

The problem really is that it seems that while GTA is getting bigger and bigger (not just in sales, but as in game content), GT is quite stuck at the same point forever. There isnt really anything great that differentiate GT2 from GT6, except for graphics. And GT Sport seems like its another game that doesnt bring much to the table either, small car list meh. I am buying GT Sport though. And hopefuly GT7 will be a PS4 game in 3 years, probably cross plat with the Playstation 5.

 

[theWB27]

Do you honestly think they're remaking those assets every two years?

Also, asset quality in Forza games isn't as high as GT games.

Equally, they've had the customization features for longer, thus are able to build on a pre-existing portfolio of assets which have already been developed with the customization system in mind.

None of this applies to GTS and PD.

So you're saying Turn10 is showing how you properly iterate in a series? Even taking the big and necessary development step they took with Forza 5.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yeah I think GT is being handled weird.

Remember GT5's release? An unfinished mess despite being 5 years in the oven or so. Thats not how you handle a killer app. Imagine if Nintendo releases SMG or MS Halo 3 in such a sorry state. I was so disappointed with that train wreck. With standards on the grid the game looked like dog shit. Not to mention the load times, sound effects, AI.

Then GT6, in the wake of the PS4 release and no way to even play it on PS4. Way to go.

I think GT Sport is actually a good idea on paper. Who needs a new racing game every year? The way Driveclub kept adding content and kept being relevant, thats the way I'd to see GTS go. Driveclub had a poor launch, but it wasn't shy of content, they just didn't have the servers ready or something. Other than that, the game kept on evolving. Both free and priced. I played it for 2 years on and off. In terms of menu design, AI, sound Driveclub crushes GT.

I fear that GTS will be geared too much towards eSports, and their DLC rollout will probably be stupid. Its PD we're talking about. They will be posting their sales which are for some reason very good (GT5 and GT6 seriously underperformed at launch, yet they boast very high lifetime sales). Do they have legs? I don't think I saw them in charts that much. Legs are what Black Ops 3 and the likes have. GT apparently sells about as good as that so they won't change their ways.

Quality wise, the last real good GT I have played is GT3. Which is 16 years ago. GT4 was still okay, but felt kind of redundant.

 

[Drencrom]

They biggest problem is that they give Kazunori too much freedom and control over GT. The guy isn't the be-all and end-all of the series, but for some reason Sony is letting his ego and "perfectionism" run the franchise into a halt.

 

[MajorPoopStorm]

4 Forza Motorsport title available on XB1 with 5th installment on the way for XB1 & XB1X.

0 Gran Turismo title available on PS4 w/ 1st copy of "demo" on the way for PS4 & PS4P.

Wow, that's not good for the competition.

 

[IISANDERII]

There was a thread a while ago to predict the review scores for Project Cars 2, FM7 and GTS, with a comparison chart for past reviews for all of their series.

You can see that Gran Turismo series peaked at GT3, then subsequently drop to 80s range since then. Forza on the other hand, has increased for the past 3 titles. PCars1 and now 2 is consistently getting 80s and 90s.

GT5 improved dramatically with post release patches. Would've scored 90 minimum.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

So you're saying Turn10 is showing how you properly iterate in a series? Even taking the big and necessary development step they took with Forza 5.

Well of course. There's no denying that Turn 10 are doing something right in this regard. The review scores for Forza games reflect this.

The comment I was responding to was about PD and why it would have been unrealistic to expect GT6-level car numbers with the changes implemented for GTS.

Hopefully PD can iterate on the new system for future games, in a similar way to Turn 10. meaning the next GT could have many more cars, already tooled to employ their existing livery editor and customization features.

 

[SkylineRKR]

GT5 improved dramatically with post release patches. Would've scored 90 minimum.

Thats no excuse for the sorry state its been released in. You can't review a game on what might improve in the future either. I think it scored too high.

 

[MaDKaT]

GT5 improved dramatically with post release patches. Would've scored 90 minimum.

A lot of games improve with post release patches.