fastford58
Member
It is unrealistic to think that a full 7gb is available for games. Where did that come from in the first place?
The situation is probably correct, but the numbers may not be.
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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
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It is unrealistic to think that a full 7gb is available for games. Where did that come from in the first place?
The situation is probably correct, but the numbers may not be.
Maybe their numbers are not incorrect though. Maybe they are "correct" for a specific devkit scenario that will change on future devkits or even on the retail sku. That will be their argument if the final scenario contradicts their article.
ps4 has no ram.
metareferential
Member
Fixed that for you.
A maximum of 1GB for the OS. To hell with all that Media Hub crap.
Perhaps because there are no solid, set in stone numbers to be had yet.
Got a link? I'd love to see what they're saying, lol.
Edit: NEVERMIND, haha...I think I see what you did there.
DC1
Member
Not exactly.
Devs may not be able to share specific numbers, however they can share opinion slight of hand.
It has happen to often in regards to the XBox One's reveal and subsequent reversal.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I really still don't understand the dilemma. MS using 3GB for their OS and so is Sony. They both end up with 5 GB of RAM for games. If you're going to fault sony for having to reserve so much for their OS the same can be said for MS. Maybe the reality is that the OS for whatever reason is going to require more dedication than we anticipated.
As this generation wears on there are a multitude of changes that will be sure to surface in order to enhance game design and ambition.
1. Decreasing OS bloat. The OS is incomplete and many things are being rewritten, tested, scrapped, and created all at once. Until a working model is finished with a set goal, there will be allocation of external space just to accomodate.
2. Potentially upclocking the GPU on both XB1 / PS4- If Sony upclocks the GPU 200mhz you end up with a 2.43 TF console. Towards the end of the PSP's lifecycle Sony performed this update, and I would venture a potential upclock of PS4 wouldn't be out of the question in the fourth years of the machine's life cycle.
3. GPGPU programming and metal coding. We will see some beautiful things coming up in the next few years. We have yet to scratch the surface.
Xplatformer
Member
A console that was suppose to have 4GB TOTAL memory all of a sudden has 3.5gb tied to OS "features"?
That don't sound right at all.
Isn't Microsoft running 3x OS?
3GB RAM regardless of what the OS is doing (for a console OS) seems like a ridiculous amount of bloat.
That don't sound right at all.
Isn't Microsoft running 3x OS?
3GB RAM regardless of what the OS is doing (for a console OS) seems like a ridiculous amount of bloat.
No nanomachines though, so it's probably Toriyama.
Reading this thread
Thats amazing.
xaosslug
Member
Whether the article is accurate or not, Sony should have responded to this faster and with actual figures. The average gamer isn't going to care about the differences between DDR5 and DDR3, they'll just see the numbers that have been posted on big gaming sites and 5 > 4.5. These people might then start informing other less informed gamer friends that there is no power difference, or even that the Xbox One is more powerful. I don't however think this will have a major impact.
IHaveCandy
Banned
So what is the whole story now? This thread is so big already.
Reading this thread
Where is the video for this?
So we can increase the bust size of PS4 by changing its case
If you look at something more recent and concrete, like the sudden indie program MS has, we can make better guesses. The general assumption was that MS was using their Windows 8 partition in the Xbox One to run those indie games, and although MS is saying that won't be the case, it's not a bad idea from a technical and security perspective.
If Sony wants to do something similar, where anyone can run their own code on the PS4, they can consider something like having the Android libraries running in memory with the memory and CPU that's rumored to be reserved. The controller already has a touch screen that seems to be designed to work with touch-screen enabled apps.
I think that's the kind of thing we're talking about with the memory reservation. Not a single feature so much as an entire separate app (and/or game) ecosystem. Doesn't have to be Android; could be Playstation Mobile (likely, except the SDK is useless for apps), could be OtherOS again, but running in a VM with a Sony-supplied BSD kernel, or something completely different. Or maybe none of those. But the point is they're reserved enough space so they could.
Uno Venova
Banned
Damn DF get's less credible by the day.
fastford58
Member
I would take it if it made a huge difference for sure. I don't need a lot of that bloat, but I guess the majority must want it.
Reading this thread
What the hell?
Canis lupus
Member
So he's legit and DF numbers are bullshit. Can we discuss Sony's comment instead of fake numbers please?
edit: WHAT IF... DF fabricated Sony's comment?
PS4 has a big pool of memory for games, a flexible pool of memory that is for games is the OS controls, and that DF numbers are seemingly wrong, possibly, or something else. Almost nothing has been confirmed by any official source.
Xbudz
Member
The average gamer is never going to hear or care about the ram available to developers.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
Reading this thread
Please tell me this is CG work??????????
Alcoholikaust
Member
"late to school, gotta hitch" ala Marty McFly-
edit: the video is real from a tourist in South Africa- full video was on Tosh.0 this year, but its been around since maybe 2011-
Agree.
Trying to quantify the 32mb esram and powerful audio hardware of Xbox One is going to be more difficult than looking at some bandwith numbers.
Well, that certainly makes all this outcry even more hilarious.
NoirVisage
Banned
Its sad that this is the simplest explanation for their "source" dev kits that we've known of for ages already.
And if they confirm a number and change it (for the worse) later they would get some serious shit. It's best if they wait until its final.
Really not understanding all the fuss about this, it makes complete sense to do it this way.
People moaned about the lack of cross-game talking on PS3 which was a direct result of them not having allocated enough memory to the OS. The problem with memory allocation is once you've allocated a set amount for the games you can never "reduce" that amount else older games will simply not work anymore.
What they've done is played it smart and set the initial OS usage to something much higher than it needs to be - but that gives them a lot of leg room moving forward.
Who knows what features we'll expect "as standard" in the future - maybe something like Vine will take off, maybe Twitch will take off, having this leg room means they can add a bunch of new features into the OS without breaking game support.
Worse case scenario is that they find they don't actually have any good use for all this OS ram a few years down the line, and bam - they give 2GB extra back to developers which means 2nd/3rd/4th gen games suddenly have more ram to play with.
For a console that is so easy to develop for, being able to "give something back" further down the line is pretty important, as people will be maximizing the graphics capabilities on this machine much quicker than the PS3 with it's funky alien cell architecture - so they not only insure they can incorporate whatever features the future might hold, but also have an extra resource to free up if the games ever start to stagnant graphically.
And 5GB of super fast ram is still a fuck-ton for a dedicated games console.
People moaned about the lack of cross-game talking on PS3 which was a direct result of them not having allocated enough memory to the OS. The problem with memory allocation is once you've allocated a set amount for the games you can never "reduce" that amount else older games will simply not work anymore.
What they've done is played it smart and set the initial OS usage to something much higher than it needs to be - but that gives them a lot of leg room moving forward.
Who knows what features we'll expect "as standard" in the future - maybe something like Vine will take off, maybe Twitch will take off, having this leg room means they can add a bunch of new features into the OS without breaking game support.
Worse case scenario is that they find they don't actually have any good use for all this OS ram a few years down the line, and bam - they give 2GB extra back to developers which means 2nd/3rd/4th gen games suddenly have more ram to play with.
For a console that is so easy to develop for, being able to "give something back" further down the line is pretty important, as people will be maximizing the graphics capabilities on this machine much quicker than the PS3 with it's funky alien cell architecture - so they not only insure they can incorporate whatever features the future might hold, but also have an extra resource to free up if the games ever start to stagnant graphically.
And 5GB of super fast ram is still a fuck-ton for a dedicated games console.
The Bookerman
Member
Sony wants to future proof the ps4, which includes it's non-gaming features. If Microsoft gains traction with apps/os functions that need a big chunk of memory. What would happen if Sony gave away too much memory to games?
Sony said it wasn't able to provide in game cross game chat because of the way the PS3's Total ram is allocated to each function. IT's still a lot of fast memory and devs like the PS4 just as much as they did before.
Sony said it wasn't able to provide in game cross game chat because of the way the PS3's Total ram is allocated to each function. IT's still a lot of fast memory and devs like the PS4 just as much as they did before.
Lol true, but that wasn't my point with him, he said he purposely left out the move engines and ESRAM because lol they don't mean much, yet he knows no figures of the true impact.
What's important is that both solutions provide enough bandwidth to the CPU/GPU tasks, more bandwidth than needed just equals extra bandwidth and does nothing to help, the only concern is a bottleneck when it comes to bandwidth, therefore if both are fed properly which I'm sure the engineers know what they're doing, the real difference comes from the GPU, PS4's GPU is doing more and especially ROPs are bandwidth hogs so it comes with the territory, the PS4 needs more bandwidth and I'm glad Sony is delivering, on the memory side though its a silly debate.
My guess is its quicker or more efficient than the normal fall backs to when physical memory runs out or is at maximum capacity.
fastford58
Member
Instigator
Banned
Sony lied. PS4 is much closer to the Xbox One than previously revealed.
Lion Heart
Banned
I'm no expert but if I had my way I think 6 gigs is the most optimal. This leaves 2 gigs to go nuts with services and future proof it while still leaving enough RAM for the Naughty Dogs to do their thang. 5 is too low Sony. 7 is great but might be treading in overkill territory.
Off topic to this carnival of crazy but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-k3s0F4-ps
nuts
I used to have to hang off the side of a bus to get to and from school when I was growing up in Jamaica but nothing as crazy as this.
Everything is wrong! I think...
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because speculating is fun. People do it when it comes to movies, sports (ie draft time), NASA, etc.
Link please - thank you.
mangochutney
Member
I believe it came from the assumption that back when it was 4GB that 512MB was for the OS, and since they doubled the RAM, that the OS would then double to 1GB as a result.
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