generaldane
Member
With their explanation of UI I am expecting Vegeta to master the attacking aspect first
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Dragon Ball Super |OT9| Genki-Drama
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
116 was probably one of the best episodes of DBS. SSJ2 Kefla is certainly one of the most powerful characters thus far and it seems a bit odd she'd outstrip SSJ Blue so quickly given all it took for Goku and Vegeta to get there. Poor Gohan had better be able to show he's capable of competing or he'll face the fate of the other Z fighters.
Seems like theres a bit of a set up for Vegeta and Freeza to attain a power akin to Ultra Instinct in the next 17 minutes. Also looks like I might be wrong and Universe 2 might go next instead of 6.
Seems like theres a bit of a set up for Vegeta and Freeza to attain a power akin to Ultra Instinct in the next 17 minutes. Also looks like I might be wrong and Universe 2 might go next instead of 6.
generaldane
Member
back to back as well Toei may be the worst anime writers in the business, I have seen post about how awesome this supposedly is and I just can't wrap my head around that notion, maybe its because I have seen so many shounen animes but this is standard stuff.
Yeah, positioning this only two episodes after he lost to Jiren really pushed the limits of suspension of disbelief. Would have been the perfect time for other characters to do things while Goku rested. Maybe that'll actually happen this time...
generaldane
Member
Kinda make you wonder why they made it 10 person team if there was gonna be so much goddamn Goku..at the very least we got some awesome Roshi eps and 17 was pretty cool for a sec, Jiren should have really knocked Goku off tbh.
He should have. It would have made things a lot more interesting.
Goku is still the main hero what did you expect? All this is for the build up against Jiren. If Jiren knocked Goku off there would be no one even near Goku.levels.
Kefla was cool but she also had no experience fighting on such a stage. She still has a ton of potential to grow If you talk about disblieves that would be rally stupid if Kefla could beat Goku.
In the End Universe 7 will win and they will wish bak all other universes anyway..
As for UI. It is something totally new for Goku so he still needs to learn how to work with it. In the End it will also the most powerful attackwise
Holy Order Sol
Member
I like that Kefla said that shit about being born a Saiyan
make everyone hold that
make everyone hold that
Tbh I'm tired of them switching the entire time to the spectators while there is a fight going on. Yes, we understand Krillin and the others are impressed with Goku and Kefla's power but you don't have to push the message more than once or twice. I get bored everytime Krillin starts to fanboying over Goku . . .
Basoes
Member
yea but they gotta waste time somehow, and they can't do that by showing more of the fight cuz that'd take effort
kunonabi
Member
Power up or not, it still serves the same purpose in making loads of characters obsolete.
hikarutilmitt
Member
None of them have had a tail since Gohan during the Saiyan arc. That was the last time we saw any of them with one, because he didn't regrow it, Goku only got his back during GT (lol) and neither of the runts were born with one. The U6 Saiyans evolved them away.
generaldane
Member
Yeah so? Its not a revolutionary idea to have the main hero relegated to secondary status in order to develop other characters, look at York Shin Arc in HxH Gon was essentially a side character and that arc worked perfectly because of it.
This is a battle royale and the rule doesn't state that the strongest character wins its states the universe with the most people so who really gives a fuck in no one was left to challenge Jiren. I know the only kind of writing Toei and Toriyama seems to be capable of these days is guy with number wins, but thats boring as hell. A single Stand user would wreck the shit of of the entire Dbz universe since these guys seem incapable of thinking about creative ways to win fights consistently. Hell the main reason the Roshi eps are my favourite are for that exact reason.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-interview/
Did the tail get in the way of the fighting?
No, its just that Im always thinking about how things are supposed to work, so it was a real pain to figure out how hed put his pants on or stuff like that. Thats what always bugged me most. Is there a hole in the pants? Does he put his tail through first, then put the pants on? So that made me want to just get rid of the darn thing which I did, in the end. (laughs)
Also, Toei's animators asked Toryiama if he could get rid of the tail.
LordOfChaos
Member
Last episode people were head-cannoning Keflas power with it drawing from LSS. This episode confirms she only just went SS2, meaning previous episode was probably just SS. And that SS form was as powerful as the spirit bomb.
Wat.
Wat.
It worked in HxH because it was the introduction of the "real word. These Arcs show how far away the actual main hero actually is to be relevant in the world. Look at the Marineford Arc with One Piece as another example. At this stage they are "small flies" and again it helps the main characters in their development as well
Here it does not make any sense to do this. Goku does not need this to grow. He is no small little fly or inexperienced.
The only thing that maybe could work is to unlock Gohans hidden potential so he will beat Jiren since he always was the one closed to surpass Goku in the Series. But at this point is not really an option either. Maybe to make him understand that he needs to train again for a maybe much bigger threat revealing at the end of the Arc. Who knows.
This will be Goku vs Jiren and no one else.
Shazz_rulez19
Member
i pray that you and your son can power through the animation of the first 2 arcs of super cuz damn that shit is some hot garbage.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Would it be better to just watch the 2 movies and skip those episodes of Super?
BBWCongaLine
Member
The episodes contain more dialogue and interaction with the characters, so if you don't really care about that, then you'll be okay.
Exactly.
I don't see how it would have been more interesting when Jiren is more broken than Goku is. He'd just solo everyone left while eating a cheeseburger and doing situps.
LordOfChaos
Member
I kind of wish UI never talked outside of Oozaru grunts, but I suppose running with that forever would hinder its ability for dialogue to go on at the same time.
Unknown One
Member
Super's terrible writing and power scaling in a nutshell. Good riddance to U6's Saiyans.
Wheeljack539
Member
Within the show I only really recall Vegeta speculating on Kale's LSS form but the actual term nor her form is stated to be anything else outside of 'Berzerk'.
As fusion takes them both and amplifies that power on top of that a number of times (as we saw Vegito manhandle Buuhan when Goku and Vegeta could not be able to do anything) and since Kale's power was already ridiculous it makes sense that much of Kefla's power and continued increase would come from that but having Caulifla as the dominant personality. Because of that I don't have much issue.
LordOfChaos
Member
I get those reasons as to why she would be powerful, but KK20xSSB Goku did nothing to Jiren, the spirit bomb was at least a threat, and last episode Kefla was only in SS1 and that powerful, and just multiplied it again with SS2.
That's just...A lot of power. There was Berserker from to multiply from, but that was no 'thang for Jiren to toss away, and Cauli would add comparably little.
Didnt the Potora rings get destroyed as Kefla was being blasted out the ring? I remember seeing at least one being shattered...
Best kamehameha in the franchises history.
We know that two namekians can fuse.
I hope Picollo fuses with the namekians to ensure Universe 6s survival... thatd be interesting to watch play out
We know that two namekians can fuse.
I hope Picollo fuses with the namekians to ensure Universe 6s survival... thatd be interesting to watch play out
DirgeExtinction
Member
Man, I'm gonna miss Kefla. It's awesome that it took her SSJ form to bring out UI again. If Goku had missed that move, he would've been out.
Also, I really don't understand the hate Kefla(and Caulifla/Kale) get. People don't like the fact they're so strong, but they accept that Jiren is the strongest because reasons.
Also, I really don't understand the hate Kefla(and Caulifla/Kale) get. People don't like the fact they're so strong, but they accept that Jiren is the strongest because reasons.
hikarutilmitt
Member
Kefla was the right thing we needed to bridge the gap of the Jiren fight to everyone else. You can't touch on UI then not do it at all for 20-something episodes just to bring it back "lol btw guys I've mastered it now" or something equally as asinine as everyone is saying this was.
This is fine because it doesn't seem like anyone else is going to be a huge enough threat for the rest of the tournament other than Jiren himself or maybe Freeza if he finally stops being an edge lord for 5 minutes. Now we can have some palate cleanser episodes and maybe finally get that stupidly annoying U2 team out.
This is fine because it doesn't seem like anyone else is going to be a huge enough threat for the rest of the tournament other than Jiren himself or maybe Freeza if he finally stops being an edge lord for 5 minutes. Now we can have some palate cleanser episodes and maybe finally get that stupidly annoying U2 team out.
LordOfChaos
Member
It's easier to accept Jirens strength because we were shown no previous limits on him, and he was presented as the strongest in the competing universes already.
We saw a KK20xSSB Goku be completely ineffective against him...Kefla should have been strong as balls, absolutely, but for her SS1 form to match the energy of the spirit bomb that had a chance of damaging Jiren when kk20xssb didn't do a scratch, when Jiren flung away a berserking Kale like she was nothing...
It's a massive powerup, even for Portara adding a tens of times multiplier. It should at least be easy to understand why people have trouble with it, even if you don't agree with them.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Massive powerups have a huge part of every single arc, I thought we got used to it by now. Frieza trained for a couple months, Goku Black fought Goku in order to become more powerful than Goku, F.Trunks pulled a rage out of his ass to instantly become stronger than both of 'em from SSJ2, 17 fought some poachers, then that weird thing about Roshi being strong all along...... hell Hit's secondary ability in his U6 Tourney fight against Goku was just being capable to improve on the fly.
Like I agree it's all terrible writing that should've been handled better but there comes a point you just gotta accept what you we've got -- this case SSJ was already established as an unknown among U6 but if Kefla *didn't* get as strong as she did U6 would've been finished with Hit's loss and we wouldn't have had any more good fights until Goku vs Jiren. I'd rather have a powerful Kefla than two worthless girls that measure up to shit - and even still the girls needed Potara Fusion to match Blue which is the level of other Z-fighters Vegeta/Frieza/Gohan/17.
And if anything, Kefla makes way more sense than any other boost we've seen. Kale's bottomless well of LSSJ power being mixed with Cauli's exceptional instincts as a fighter is great, just as Vados comment on Kale's immense power that she hadn't reached her limit, she needed Cauli to take control of her power. At least there's some attempt at using logic beyond Secret Training or just an "Improvement" ability.
Jiren just being the freak that he is for no reason at all (one yet mentioned at least) is so much more frustrating, every time he does something I just think "oh come the hell on show SOME weakness"
*breathes*
It's just frustrating that the barrage of complaints about Kefla could've just been avoided if Cabba was introduced as a competent Saiyan from the get-go, and that would have the added bonus of making the U6 team have more than 1 fighter worth anything that arc. That's why I don't bother getting caught up in the rapid progression anymore, it's the same thing I did with Goku Black who I thought was ridiculous but then I got to enjoy him in his own right for the awesome shit he pulled off in the end and his fun personality. Super just gotta stop introducing new powerful foes at weak initial levels.
generaldane
Member
Its not so hard to understand why is way easier to accept Jiren being as powerful than he is that those U6 Saiyans. Jiren was introduced as being a beast which undoubtedly had his history of struggles that lead to that strength or at least that's implied. The U6 Saiyans were introduced as not even knowing what SS was and outside of Caba they both just learned it the previous day.
Toriyama pretty much created this problem by introducing the characters as too weak to begin with for no reason whatsoever. If the very first time we saw them they were already accomplished SS2s or higher this growth would make a lot more sense since we as the audience would just assume this is them continuing to build on their already experienced selves, but to leave from being novices to where they are in such a short time is just shit writing.
Hell Toriyama could have avoided this problem if he had had Cabba gone to explain was SS was to the immediately after the U6 tournament only to find out the already knew and were ahead of him. I think Toriyama's main reason for doing this is just because he likes having new characters acting all impressed by the current cast and this wouldn't have been possible if they already were at that level.
Toriyama pretty much created this problem by introducing the characters as too weak to begin with for no reason whatsoever. If the very first time we saw them they were already accomplished SS2s or higher this growth would make a lot more sense since we as the audience would just assume this is them continuing to build on their already experienced selves, but to leave from being novices to where they are in such a short time is just shit writing.
Hell Toriyama could have avoided this problem if he had had Cabba gone to explain was SS was to the immediately after the U6 tournament only to find out the already knew and were ahead of him. I think Toriyama's main reason for doing this is just because he likes having new characters acting all impressed by the current cast and this wouldn't have been possible if they already were at that level.
We had such a kind of situation before at the end of DBZ with Ubu though. But even here we only have seen the potential of Kefla. Wat they miss is expereince to actually handle such powers that is why there is nso much growth left and it was the right decision to get them out for future Arcs.
WinterIsComing
Member
I ignored the time and power stuff, and really enjoyed this episode.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Yeah I really agree with this assumption, like Cabba's whole character was basically just designed to make Vegeta a mentor to a Saiyan but then that basically boxed in the whole U6 Saiyan race as a bunch of weakings decades behind the experiences of the U7 crew. When Goku/Vegeta are now at god levels in Super that's just a *lot* of catchup to give a new apprentice-type character. Gonna be incredibly bizarre if Uub is still treated like anything serious.
They really did an awful job with introducing U6, it was supposed to be a tournament of the universes best fighters but all we got was Goku and Vegeta playing around and not taking anything seriously until Hit who was the only contestant worth anything. Nothing was taken seriously at all, literally a 5v5 match where U7 only had 3 fighters.
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Can't put all the shit writing blame on toriyama...
Toei has a major hand in that too
Toyotaro might handle it a lot different than toei did.
Toei has a major hand in that too
Toyotaro might handle it a lot different than toei did.
tkscz
Member
Piccolo is just SSJ1 level my ass. If anything he's at 2 or 3. Why all the downplay of Piccolo?
Another fantastic episode. Great visuals and a bombastic way to end the arc of Kale and Caulifla, the love letters to the Super Saiyan legacy. Nothing more fitting than to send them off with the form that surpasses Super Saiyan.
Grinding Kamehameha was hype, and I'm looking forward to seeing how Vegeta subjects himself to trying to unlock UI. He's definitely the more masochistic of the two so I suspect he's going to let himself get pretty wrecked.
Grinding Kamehameha was hype, and I'm looking forward to seeing how Vegeta subjects himself to trying to unlock UI. He's definitely the more masochistic of the two so I suspect he's going to let himself get pretty wrecked.
LordOfChaos
Member
These two seem contradictory. Like I said, I find Jiren easier to swallow /because/ he was introduced as the strongest in the competing universes, so it's like, yeah, he's going to be strong as shit and should be toweringly above Goku and co. He's a further trained Goku-like grower who maybe had more time to reach his GoD. The u6 kids, as you said, are more troublesome to swallow because of their initial showings.
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that if they would've introduced the U6 saiyans as more competent and experienced fighters then most of the complaints against them wouldn't Exist.
Xenobureido
Banned
Fantastic animation this week. My favorite scene was when Goku slammed his feet into the rock wall next to him to alter his falling speed. Felt like a good old martial art-Dragon Ball fight 
Kudos to Kefla, too. At first i was skeptical how DBS would handle a female super saiyajin, but the way it happened felt fine to me. Especially since Kefla/Caulifla behaved 'wild'/ferocious like the original saiyajin race is supposed to have.
Kudos to Kefla, too. At first i was skeptical how DBS would handle a female super saiyajin, but the way it happened felt fine to me. Especially since Kefla/Caulifla behaved 'wild'/ferocious like the original saiyajin race is supposed to have.
kunonabi
Member
I dont see the issue as they make it a point that for all their powerups Goku still outclasses them in terms of technique and experience and even in his weakened state he still overpowers them greatly one on one. They manage to push him to UI when they fuse but that doesn't mean all that much when they got bodied by Goku's half-assed version of it anyway. They got thrown into the deep end of the pool and managed to keep their heads above water a bit before drowning. I will never understand the mentality that this was the worst thing to ever happen in DB.
Making the girls more powerful from the jump would just make it even more embarrassing when Goku styled all over them.
Kale and Caulifla's small saga were simply hat tips to the history of the greatest SSJ transformations, a celebration of all things Saiyan. The characters embody it. Unlimited potential and fanatical battle tendency, respectively.
....Also a great way to generate like six or seven new toy models more marketable towards girls in a manner of months.
....Also a great way to generate like six or seven new toy models more marketable towards girls in a manner of months.