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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
I thought it was interesting that the MiB said he'd never seen the snake-tattoo-lady (STL?) before.

In Episode 1 she was clearly part of the gang robbing the saloon, and again was part of the gang in EP4. This makes me think she's been a part of that loop for a little while at least.

I don't think that the Guests who shoot Hector + STL in EP1 interact with the MiB (or William) so it's hard to tell when that takes place. However the shootout at the end of EP1 clearly takes place in the "present" since the writer is overseeing it.

Assuming MiB exists in the present, he must have missed STL raiding the town a bunch of times? But he knows Hector, right? No idea why it means anything.. but MiB made a point in saying he'd never seen her before. Just seems weird since the saloon heist seems to be a big recurring thing.. maybe he just avoids it since it's not moving his narrative forward..

But wait.. STL said she's been tattooing herself ever since Wyatt killed her family/etc. And the last part of the tattoo is waiting for her killing Wyatt.. but Wyatt did not even exist until the most recent 'story update' correct? So if that's correct, if MiB had asked her about this on his last trip.. she never would have had the info to give to him to point him towards Wyatt in the first place?

So is Ford actually helping MiB along on his quest by putting more info out there? Guess we'll find out in their sit-down next week...
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Captain Zyrain said:
I thought it was interesting that the MiB said he'd never seen the snake-tattoo-lady (STL?) before.

In Episode 1 she was clearly part of the gang robbing the saloon, and again was part of the gang in EP4. This makes me think she's been a part of that loop for a little while at least.

I don't think that the Guests who shoot Hector + STL in EP1 interact with the MiB (or William) so it's hard to tell when that takes place. However the shootout at the end of EP1 clearly takes place in the "present" since the writer is overseeing it.

Assuming MiB exists in the present, he must have missed STL raiding the town a bunch of times? But he knows Hector, right? No idea why it means anything.. but MiB made a point in saying he'd never seen her before. Just seems weird since the saloon heist seems to be a big recurring thing.. maybe he just avoids it since it's not moving his narrative forward..

But wait.. STL said she's been tattooing herself ever since Wyatt killed her family/etc. And the last part of the tattoo is waiting for her killing Wyatt.. but Wyatt did not even exist until the most recent 'story update' correct? So if that's correct, if MiB had asked her about this on his last trip.. she never would have had the info to give to him to point him towards Wyatt in the first place?

So is Ford actually helping MiB along on his quest by putting more info out there? Guess we'll find out in their sit-down next week...
Click to expand...

In ep 1 she didn't have a tattoo on her face iirc, it just looked like a burn scar with no tattoo I thought.

I could be wrong though.
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
ZOONAMI said:
In ep 1 she didn't have a tattoo on her face iirc, it just looked like a burn scar with no tattoo I thought.

I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

Just re-watched it, and it is definitely part of a snake.

Crappy grab

STL.png
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Captain Zyrain said:
Just re-watched it, and it is definitely part of a snake.

Crappy grab

STL.png
Click to expand...

Ah ok cool. I remember thinking from episode one it looked like a burn scar of some kind. Didn't realize there was a tattoo.

But yes it seems Ford programmed her with additional back story like he did with teddy. Interesting. He must be closely monitoring mib and knows he got the clue about the snake.

It is weird though that it seems like this host is the only one with a tattoo so she would seem to have some significance to Ford regardless at least in regards to this maze. It seems that the maze game maybe actually changes
depending on the narrative and part of it is meeting up with Ford, at least for a guest, given the preview.
 
D

duckroll

Member
So... the church that features more and more heavily into Ford's upcoming narrative... it's an old church which clearly existed a long long time ago. At the end of episode 2, Ford brings Bernard to it but you can't see the entire thing, only what looks like either a ruin of it or a new version of it being constructed, since the roof is incomplete. The style of the church in Dolores' flashback matches two things we have seen before - the town in the Arnold flashback when Ford talks about the earliest version of Westworld in episode 3, and the villa Ford dines in at the end of episode 4. The villa is also a place Theresa says she visited when she was a little girl. Could this all be part of a township which used to be the center of Westworld like Sweetwater is now? Is this where Arnold died?
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Did anyone else notice a lot of focus pulling problems in this episode? There were a lot of out of focus shots. For example, a couple of Theresa's closeups when talking with Ford, and then when Snake Lady is talking to MiB. The part where she says, "one match, one pistol", the focus is on her hair, lol.
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
duckroll said:
So... the church that features more and more heavily into Ford's upcoming narrative... it's an old church which clearly existed a long long time ago. At the end of episode 2, Ford brings Bernard to it but you can't see the entire thing, only what looks like either a ruin of it or a new version of it being constructed, since the roof is incomplete. The style of the church in Dolores' flashback matches two things we have seen before - the town in the Arnold flashback when Ford talks about the earliest version of Westworld in episode 3, and the villa Ford dines in at the end of episode 4. The villa is also a place Theresa says she visited when she was a little girl. Could this all be part of a township which used to be the center of Westworld like Sweetwater is now? Is this where Arnold died?
Click to expand...

Looked like the steeple of a church, rest of it covered in sand?

It seemed like the villa was somewhat remote and was a very private setting with no other guests, maybe at one time it was closer to other structures and was definitely frequented by guests because Theresa was there as a kid.

So yeah i think there was maybe once another main town, or at least the villa and church were part of a different town that they company has sort of abandoned for guest use but Ford obviously keep the villa around for himself.

What's kind of weird is that the park actually does seem like it is in decline in a lot of ways.

It seems like the hq building was once in much better shape too, and cold storage area looked like a mall that once would have been used by guests.

Seems weird if guests are paying 40k+ a day you'd think you would fix the hvac, but Hemsworth Sr just said this isn't exactly a priority.

But yeah letting whole areas of the park essentially rot seems like things aren't going very well for westworld in general. But then they seem to have no problem leveleling things and rwbuilding/terraforming for a narrative either so I dunno.
 
R

royalan

Member
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?

We're led to believe that hosts coming in contact with their creators and remembering it is extremely unusual and significant (thinking Newton's character here), but this episode we find out it's apparently quite common. And yet nobody has realized that the Native American hosts have constructed an entire religion based on the park employees?

This show has a very interesting premise, but they need to make the rules the show goes by a bit more clear. Right now it seems to change depending on what the writers need to have happen... And that's poor world building.

And they need to flesh out MiB and give him a purpose, or some stakes, stat. Because right now he's just an asshole playing the game on god mode, and that's boring. I struggle the most with staying invested in his character.
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
ZOONAMI said:
Ah ok cool. I remember thinking from episode one it looked like a burn scar of some kind. Didn't realize there was a tattoo.

But yes it seems Ford programmed her with additional back story like he did with teddy. Interesting. He must be closely monitoring mib and knows he got the clue about the snake.

It is weird though that it seems like this host is the only one with a tattoo so she would seem to have some significance to Ford regardless at least in regards to this maze. It seems that the maze game maybe actually changes
depending on the narrative and part of it is meeting up with Ford, at least for a guest, given the preview.
Click to expand...

MiB is searching for the maze but really he is just beta testing Fords new narrative.

Not sure if Ford is aware of the maze or not, could be something Bernard made or Arnold. He does claim to be aware of everything though. I think he is giving Bernard enough rope to hang himself.
 
K

kaister

Member
Captain Zyrain said:
I thought it was interesting that the MiB said he'd never seen the snake-tattoo-lady (STL?) before.

In Episode 1 she was clearly part of the gang robbing the saloon, and again was part of the gang in EP4. This makes me think she's been a part of that loop for a little while at least.

I don't think that the Guests who shoot Hector + STL in EP1 interact with the MiB (or William) so it's hard to tell when that takes place. However the shootout at the end of EP1 clearly takes place in the "present" since the writer is overseeing it.

Assuming MiB exists in the present, he must have missed STL raiding the town a bunch of times? But he knows Hector, right? No idea why it means anything.. but MiB made a point in saying he'd never seen her before. Just seems weird since the saloon heist seems to be a big recurring thing.. maybe he just avoids it since it's not moving his narrative forward..

But wait.. STL said she's been tattooing herself ever since Wyatt killed her family/etc. And the last part of the tattoo is waiting for her killing Wyatt.. but Wyatt did not even exist until the most recent 'story update' correct? So if that's correct, if MiB had asked her about this on his last trip.. she never would have had the info to give to him to point him towards Wyatt in the first place?

So is Ford actually helping MiB along on his quest by putting more info out there? Guess we'll find out in their sit-down next week...
Click to expand...

She's in ep1 and again in ep4 = she's in the system for a while?

How do you draw that conclusion?

Hmm...like what makes you think she's was part of the loop for a while now and not a new insert in the narrative in episode 1? I mean it's possible she's always there but I don't think it was specifically mentioned...and that you can't definitively say she's always there.

I mean I understand that it's implied the gang robbery is triggered routinely. But nothing really mentioned that they uses the same hosts for these events. In fact, we know that host's role changes once in a while.

Not saying this is the case for the snake lady...but it's possible she's a new host inserted in to replace a damaged or destroy host that's beyond repair. Hence, why MiB never met her before. I mean he clearly knows Hector and the gang, so he must've know about him and his robbery event.
 
A

Apt101

Member
royalan said:
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?

We're led to believe that hosts coming in contact with their creators and remembering it is extremely unusual and significant (thinking Newton's character here), but this episode we find out it's apparently quite common. And yet nobody has realized that the Native American hosts have constructed an entire religion based on the park employees?

This show has a very interesting premise, but they need to make the rules the show goes by a bit more clear. Right now it seems to change depending on what the writers need to have happen... And that's poor world building.

And they need to flesh out MiB and give him a purpose, or some stakes, stat. Because right now he's just an asshole playing the game on god mode, and that's boring. I struggle the most with staying invested in his character.
Click to expand...

This encapsulates my criticisms. It's all a bit incoherent.

Still, entertaining. I can suspend my disbelief a great deal, but when a fantasy world can't seem to decide upon its own fictional rules it gets a bit tougher to ignore.
 
P

paperboywriter

Member
royalan said:
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?

We're led to believe that hosts coming in contact with their creators and remembering it is extremely unusual and significant (thinking Newton's character here), but this episode we find out it's apparently quite common. And yet nobody has realized that the Native American hosts have constructed an entire religion based on the park employees?

This show has a very interesting premise, but they need to make the rules the show goes by a bit more clear. Right now it seems to change depending on what the writers need to have happen... And that's poor world building.

And they need to flesh out MiB and give him a purpose, or some stakes, stat. Because right now he's just an asshole playing the game on god mode, and that's boring. I struggle the most with staying invested in his character.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's my problem too, make the ground rules clearer, it's distracting and confusing and doesn't add to the mystery.
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Flo_Evans said:
MiB is searching for the maze but really he is just beta testing Fords new narrative.

Not sure if Ford is aware of the maze or not, could be something Bernard made or Arnold. He does claim to be aware of everything though. I think he is giving Bernard enough rope to hang himself.
Click to expand...

based on the preview it would seem Ford is aware of the maze, asks what mib is looking for, truth
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
kaister said:
She's in ep1 and again in ep4 = she's in the system for a while?

How do you draw that conclusion?

Hmm...like what makes you think she's was part of the loop for a while now and not a new insert in the narrative in episode 1? I mean it's possible she's always there but I don't think it was specifically mentioned...and that you can't definitively say she's always there.

I mean I understand that it's implied the gang robbery is triggered routinely. But nothing really mentioned that they uses the same hosts for these events. In fact, we know that host's role changes once in a while.

Not saying this is the case for the snake lady...but it's possible she's a new host inserted in to replace a damaged or destroy host that's beyond repair. Hence, why MiB never met her before. I mean he clearly knows Hector and the gang, so he must've know about him and his robbery event.
Click to expand...

Obviously it's all reaching, but someone appearing in 2 different loops playing the same character is rare enough so far that I feel it gives enough credence to think they're a fixture.

The Discover Westworld site also lets you query Armistice and ask about her, and it makes it seem like she's a regular fixture in Hectors gang.

This could all be changed on the fly, so who knows, but with that being the case, ANY theory or idea could be tossed out the window right away.

Do we know exactly WHEN Ford's new narrative was introduced? Was it part of the reveries in EP1? If that's the case then maybe Armistice knew her backstory "the whole time" we've seen her, and Teddy was the last to get the update on Wyatt? Either way, my point is that the MiB has been coming for a LOT longer than the Wyatt story was going around, but all his clues lead to something that requires the Wyatt story to be in place and functioning.. otherwise he's going nowhere. So... someone has to be 'helping him along' or something, right?
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
royalan said:
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?

We're led to believe that hosts coming in contact with their creators and remembering it is extremely unusual and significant (thinking Newton's character here), but this episode we find out it's apparently quite common. And yet nobody has realized that the Native American hosts have constructed an entire religion based on the park employees?

This show has a very interesting premise, but they need to make the rules the show goes by a bit more clear. Right now it seems to change depending on what the writers need to have happen... And that's poor world building.

And they need to flesh out MiB and give him a purpose, or some stakes, stat. Because right now he's just an asshole playing the game on god mode, and that's boring. I struggle the most with staying invested in his character.
Click to expand...

MiB has stated his purpose out loud?? He is trying to get to a deeper level and set the hosts free.

They explain most employees don't think much of the hosts. Bernard tells the other behavior person directly not to project onto them about the Orion art. The dolls look pretty close to hopi indian art, that would be correct for the setting.

hopi-kachina-doll-granger.jpg


As for the dynamite they specifically call it an "effect" I am pretty confident it was as fake as the bullets.
 
Quote

Quote

Member
So, at this point do we know what Ford is up to? What was the point of the machine destroying everything, to show that Ford doesn't care what needs to be destroyed to create his new story?

royalan said:
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?

We're led to believe that hosts coming in contact with their creators and remembering it is extremely unusual and significant (thinking Newton's character here), but this episode we find out it's apparently quite common. And yet nobody has realized that the Native American hosts have constructed an entire religion based on the park employees?

This show has a very interesting premise, but they need to make the rules the show goes by a bit more clear. Right now it seems to change depending on what the writers need to have happen... And that's poor world building.

And they need to flesh out MiB and give him a purpose, or some stakes, stat. Because right now he's just an asshole playing the game on god mode, and that's boring. I struggle the most with staying invested in his character.
Click to expand...
I'm mostly with you, the cigar explosive thing did break my suspension of disbelief. MiB is boring right now because he can do anything he wants. The Game is more interesting than he is, and that's disappointing.

I hope some things start to get answered soon so we know what is at stake. Right now Delores is the only person i'm invested in but I think i'm supposed to care more about the others?
 
R

royalan

Member
Flo_Evans said:
MiB has stated his purpose out loud?? He is trying to get to a deeper level and set the hosts free.
Click to expand...

But what does that mean and why should I care? What does it matter if he gets to a "deeper level" of this fuck-and-kill amusement park? It's too early to know the end game, but we should have an idea of what it could potentially be?
 
shira

shira

Member
Quote said:
So, at this point do we know what Ford is up to? What was the point of the machine destroying everything, to show that Ford doesn't care what needs to be destroyed to create his new story?
Click to expand...

1. A town might have been buried when we saw the black church steeple in Ford's desert walk with the boy.
2. Making a new area in the park
 
K

kris.

Banned
duckroll said:
When Ford asked if the neighbors were complaining about the noise, who could he be referring to?
Click to expand...

i thought that was just a little joke about how much noise that excavator was making. could've also been a jab at her being a mouth for the board tho.
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
royalan said:
But what does that mean and why should I care? What does it matter if he gets to a "deeper level" of this fuck-and-kill amusement park? It's too early to know the end game, but we should have an idea of what it could potentially be?
Click to expand...

He basically wants to play on extreme mode with no continues. He wants the hosts to be able to kill him. He doesn't plan on leaving the park this time. Did you not listen to any of his dialog?

He obviously knows Arnold and has some beef with Ford. What else do you need at this point?
 
K

kaister

Member
royalan said:
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?

We're led to believe that hosts coming in contact with their creators and remembering it is extremely unusual and significant (thinking Newton's character here), but this episode we find out it's apparently quite common. And yet nobody has realized that the Native American hosts have constructed an entire religion based on the park employees?

This show has a very interesting premise, but they need to make the rules the show goes by a bit more clear. Right now it seems to change depending on what the writers need to have happen... And that's poor world building.

And they need to flesh out MiB and give him a purpose, or some stakes, stat. Because right now he's just an asshole playing the game on god mode, and that's boring. I struggle the most with staying invested in his character.
Click to expand...


There are inconsistencies which is why some of these MiB/William folks believe that the timeline of the show is not in sequential order. For now, we don't know whether these inconsistency are intentional or not?

But some of the your criticism are based on assumptions...and there should be a caveat to that.

For example, you said nobody has realized the hosts had constructed a religion based on park employees.

This here reminds me of how some people are saying how come no one knows about the MiB and what he's doing after episode 1. Later, in episode 2 actually, we found that the park employee do know about him...but just doesn't care about it.

Now, what we do know is that the host is intentionally given the concept of nightmare to cope with memory that they haven't wipe completely. Now this tells me that the park do understand that sometimes slip ups do happen.

Like the nightmare, the park employee religion thingy might be intentionally left there to allow the hosts to cope with situation where they come in contact with the park employees.

Maybe?

So it's possible they park do know about this and just don't care. We don't know for sure yet.

Well, why don't they just wipe their memory?

Now we kinda have a sense that Hopkins' characters doesn't like things rigidly defined because I guess it makes the park too robotic...too predicable and break the illusion a bit. So I can totally see a scenario where the park employee was like "oh shit, these hosts remember seeing us when we're collecting their bodies" and Hopkins was like "meh...just let it be..." lol

Now this is just my way of interpreting what might be happening. Wouldn't surprise me if I'm totally wrong and that would be fair.

As for your criticism of the writers not being clear...I guess they could be clearer. But writers often obscure detail and not defined everything to let audience to figure things out...I can't really fault them for that. If the writer decide to keep details hidden in the beginning show slowly reveal them later...it's their prerogative, right?

You said MiB doesn't have a purpose, I'm not sure if that's true. What is happening is that the show is intentionally keeping his motive hidden for now. Like what's the maze? What's that supposed to be? Why does he care about it so much? We don't know yet.

I'll be more upset if they did all these set-ups and no reveal...happens way too often in multi-season tv show. (especially ones that gets cancelled midway)

Several people had mentioned this before, this could totally turned out to be another Lost situation...where in the end the writers had no idea what they were doing. It's still too early for me to tell so I'm giving them the benefit of a doubt and see where they're taking this.
 
K

kaister

Member
Captain Zyrain said:
Obviously it's all reaching, but someone appearing in 2 different loops playing the same character is rare enough so far that I feel it gives enough credence to think they're a fixture.

The Discover Westworld site also lets you query Armistice and ask about her, and it makes it seem like she's a regular fixture in Hectors gang.

This could all be changed on the fly, so who knows, but with that being the case, ANY theory or idea could be tossed out the window right away.

Do we know exactly WHEN Ford's new narrative was introduced? Was it part of the reveries in EP1? If that's the case then maybe Armistice knew her backstory "the whole time" we've seen her, and Teddy was the last to get the update on Wyatt? Either way, my point is that the MiB has been coming for a LOT longer than the Wyatt story was going around, but all his clues lead to something that requires the Wyatt story to be in place and functioning.. otherwise he's going nowhere. So... someone has to be 'helping him along' or something, right?
Click to expand...

Fairly enough.

I'm not trying to say anything definitive here. We're probably still missing a bit of details here.

As for someone helping out the MiB, it's possible and based on the preview
unless I'm not understanding the preview, Hopkin's character (Ford) clearly know who MiB is and maybe even know what he is trying to do. It doesn't mean that Ford is helping the MiB out, just the what MiB is trying to do is related to what Ford is trying to do, which might be why he's running into Ford's new narrative.
 
R

royalan

Member
Flo_Evans said:
He basically wants to play on extreme mode with no continues. He wants the hosts to be able to kill him. He doesn't plan on leaving the park this time. Did you not listen to any of his dialog?

He obviously knows Arnold and has some beef with Ford. What else do you need at this point?
Click to expand...

...so MiBs whole point is that he wants to be able to die in the park? I heard that, but that's...dull. Especially compared to Delores and Maeve's storylines (not to mention the superb acting).

Anyway, I'm still interested the show, but I think MiB needs a little more meat to his plot.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
hokahey said:
He seemed to be genuinely asking.
Click to expand...
His intonation was pretty obviously sarcastic.

royalan said:
...so MiBs whole point is that he wants to be able to die in the park? I heard that, but that's...dull. Especially compared to Delores and Maeve's storylines (not to mention the superb acting).

Anyway, I'm still interested the show, but I think MiB needs a little more meat to his plot.
Click to expand...

He wants a challenge, and he wants to experience something he hasn't experienced before. He's hankering for new content and Delos has only been dripping out shitty DLC and expansions so far.
 
R

royalan

Member
Rentahamster said:
His intonation was pretty obviously sarcastic.



He wants a challenge, and he wants to experience something he hasn't experienced before. He's hankering for new content and Delos has only been dripping out shitty DLC and expansions so far.
Click to expand...

So basically Westworld is Destiny?
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
kaister said:
Fairly enough.

I'm not trying to say anything definitive here. We're probably still missing a bit of details here.

As for someone helping out the MiB, it's possible and based on the preview
unless I'm not understanding the preview, Hopkin's character (Ford) clearly know who MiB is and maybe even know what he is trying to do. It doesn't mean that Ford is helping the MiB out, just the what MiB is trying to do is related to what Ford is trying to do, which might be why he's running into Ford's new narrative.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for sure, it's all spit balling until we get more concrete details.. and even then, with "misremembering" and stuff, who knows what is True and what's not.

EP5 preview talk..
MiB asks Ford if he made a "worthy adversary" someone to "stop him from finding the center of the maze". Which is all kinds of interesting. So, yeah I'd guess he knows his plan, at least then, if not earlier. But what could Ford create to 'stop' MiB? A host without rules? Traps or something maybe? It's impossible to tell from the short bit of dialog, and I've seen shows that specifically show you one scene even though the actual episode plays out 180° different.
 
K

kaister

Member
Quote said:
So, at this point do we know what Ford is up to? What was the point of the machine destroying everything, to show that Ford doesn't care what needs to be destroyed to create his new story?


I'm mostly with you, the cigar explosive thing did break my suspension of disbelief. MiB is boring right now because he can do anything he wants. The Game is more interesting than he is, and that's disappointing.

I hope some things start to get answered soon so we know what is at stake. Right now Delores is the only person i'm invested in but I think i'm supposed to care more about the others?
Click to expand...


I'm not sure why you guys are so caught up with the cigar explosive thingy.

In fact that scene seems to indicate that the guests are allowed to use explosive as long as it's cleared by the park. I guess presumably to make sure no other guests are within the explosion range. Make sense.

I'm one of those guys that's not exactly sure how weapon works in the park. Seems like the generally consensus is that there's some "smart" bullet for their guns. But how about weapons like knives, swords, and arrows. <shrug>

If guests are allowed to use all these weapons, I'm not sure why explosive would be an exception.
 
K

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Captain Zyrain said:
I thought it was interesting that the MiB said he'd never seen the snake-tattoo-lady (STL?) before.

In Episode 1 she was clearly part of the gang robbing the saloon, and again was part of the gang in EP4. This makes me think she's been a part of that loop for a little while at least.

I don't think that the Guests who shoot Hector + STL in EP1 interact with the MiB (or William) so it's hard to tell when that takes place. However the shootout at the end of EP1 clearly takes place in the "present" since the writer is overseeing it.

Assuming MiB exists in the present, he must have missed STL raiding the town a bunch of times? But he knows Hector, right? No idea why it means anything.. but MiB made a point in saying he'd never seen her before. Just seems weird since the saloon heist seems to be a big recurring thing.. maybe he just avoids it since it's not moving his narrative forward..

But wait.. STL said she's been tattooing herself ever since Wyatt killed her family/etc. And the last part of the tattoo is waiting for her killing Wyatt.. but Wyatt did not even exist until the most recent 'story update' correct? So if that's correct, if MiB had asked her about this on his last trip.. she never would have had the info to give to him to point him towards Wyatt in the first place?

So is Ford actually helping MiB along on his quest by putting more info out there? Guess we'll find out in their sit-down next week...
Click to expand...
MiB knows of Hectors storyline but had never met him and was actively avoiding his storyline before last nights ep. MiB was already an old jaded gamer when Hector was patched in and didn't care much for Hectors storyline.

Hector: I don't believe we've ever met.

MiB: No, we haven't. You know, you always seemed like a... a market-tested kind of thing. Big gun, tasteful scar. Locked in your little cycle like a prized poodle after its own tail.

Hector: You sound like a man who's grown tired of wearing his guts on the inside.

MiB: There's no need to get testy. I'm just curious about your worldview. Some kind of half-native mumbo jumbo?

Hector: It's simple. I believe that only the truly brave can look at the world and understand that all of it... gods, men, everything else... will end badly. No one will be saved.

MiB: Maybe we've got more in common than I thought.
Click to expand...
 
K

kaister

Member
royalan said:
What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the host that smashed his head with a giant rock?

I'm not sure if that's consider basic host behavior.

I think the park workers are meant to have complete control of the host...if they function properly. Like any product, you can't guaranteed it to be defect free.

That host with the smashed head is clearly glitching out.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
royalan said:
I'm enjoying the show so far, but the one thing throwing me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency to the world.

What level of control do the creators have over the world? In one scene they can make cigars explode remotely, but then the next they can't explain basic host behaviors. What exactly falls in and out of the park's control?
Click to expand...

1. The cigar is a simple effect, it probably radios home when the guest wants to use it. The hosts are complex programs, and sometimes creators don't even know why their program are going off the rails.

2. What came to me is the religion is planted by the creators as a safefail to give hosts excuses for their visions? Though thinking on it some more that doesn't make much sense as it'd just make the hosts question their existence even more... maybe that's what they want?
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
Killthee said:
MiB knows of Hectors storyline but had never met him and was actively avoiding his storyline before last nights ep. MiB was already an old jaded gamer when Hector was patched in and didn't care much for Hectors storyline.
Click to expand...

That's right, thank you, I completely forgot about that.

I really need to watch the EPs more than once before commenting. I loved that line about being market tested too!

Okay, so odds are he's avoided that whole gang for a while. Still guessing the Wyatt info is relatively new for all the hosts.
 
K

kaister

Member
Killthee said:
MiB knows of Hectors storyline but had never met him and was actively avoiding his storyline before last nights ep. MiB was already an old jaded gamer when Hector was patched in and didn't care much for Hectors storyline.
Click to expand...

Ah make sense.

I probably wasn't paying attention to that.
 
C

captjohnboyd

Member
I'm pretty surprised no one has mentioned anything about the scene in the preview
involving Williams friend. He's clearly in actual danger and being beat up. No "hosts can't hurt guests" stuff going on here.
I guess with all the scenes of MiB and Hopkins no one noticed it.I think it pretty definitively points to that being a different time line. It doesn't seem to clear up the MiB/William theory much but it looks to me like it's the start of the
catastrophic accident from 30 years prior. Otherwise why would a guest be getting hurt and potentially killed?
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Killthee said:
MiB knows of Hectors storyline but had never met him and was actively avoiding his storyline before last nights ep. MiB was already an old jaded gamer when Hector was patched in and didn't care much for Hectors storyline.
Click to expand...

I never thought it made sense to assume that MiB literally knows every quest and NPC and/or that he spends 100% of his time in Westworld. He clearly doesn't.
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
captjohnboyd said:
I'm pretty surprised no one has mentioned anything about the scene in the preview
involving Williams friend. He's clearly in actual danger and being beat up. No "hosts can't hurt guests" stuff going on here.
I guess with all the scenes of MiB and Hopkins no one noticed it.I think it pretty definitively points to that being a different time line. It doesn't seem to clear up the MiB/William theory much but it looks to me like it's the start of the
catastrophic accident from 30 years prior. Otherwise why would a guest be getting hurt and potentially killed?
Click to expand...

That IS
interesting. At first I was thinking it was part of the roll playing, like how they locked up a couple guests in jail, only to be sprung a few hours earlier. The illusion of consequence likely makes doing bad things feel better. But the more I watch it, it looks like him actually getting hurt (kneed in stomach, etc). Wonder if William & Dolores are looking for him on the train?
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
Killthee said:
MiB knows of Hectors storyline but had never met him and was actively avoiding his storyline before last nights ep. MiB was already an old jaded gamer when Hector was patched in and didn't care much for Hectors storyline.
Click to expand...

I love that line: "You sound like a man who's grown tired of wearing his guts on the inside."
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
duckroll said:
They haven't aged because all of that is happening in the present. Dolores is indeed in that town right now and is off loop, because as we saw last week after the incident at her home she ran off. But did she run off and then meet William and Logan? Or has this all happened before in the past, and is she retracing her steps in a trance and confusing memories and reality?

If when they asked if any guests are with her, the reply was "she entered the town with two of them" then the theory would be dead immediately. But now it lives on for another episode. Lol.
Click to expand...

The narrative on this theory gets more tortured every week. Like, if William is actually in the past, and the "off her loop" scene followed by the "people come to rescue Dolores" scene are actually unrelated, the only purpose of the scene was to confuse the viewers. Like, I would be hard-pressed to buy it even if we hadn't been introduced to William and his friend independently of Dolores.
 
B

Burt

Member
The word "timeline" is the bubonic plague of contemporary pop culture






Well, that's certainly a good post to start the page off with
 
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