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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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CrudeDiatribe
Member
Hitting 'undo' on the recent omnibus crime legislation seems like a better place to start.
DreamMachine
Member
I like the Elections Canada Cuts in the 2012-2013 year by 7.5 million seems a little bit of a coincidence.
If they mentioned that cut I wonder what cuts they are not telling us about.
If they mentioned that cut I wonder what cuts they are not telling us about.
Would be indeed. But it is the CPC, so some conservatives priorities will stay over other stuff.
As it should be, really. We might not agree with it, but it has been known since before they got elected that they wanted "tougher" crime legislation. They got elected with people knowing it, they have majority, so they act on it.
So, I don't agree with it, but it is democracy. A liberal or NPD majority government would pass bills and legislations that their members would like, after all, and it would probably have flaws. No difference here.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Budget seems basically acceptable to me; the only line item that seems initially problematic is the cuts to Elections Canada. It has a bad appearance after the recent stuff, and it's important to keep EC arms length and well funded to ensure the integrity of the democratic apparatus in the country. It may be the case that the cuts end up being procedural kind of stuff, and I have no evidence to say that they are political in impetus or will be terrible in impact, but the initial reaction I have to hearing Elections Canada facing cuts is worry.
On a "not the end of the world but still too bad", sad to see Katimavik get the axe. It was a nice, modest little program that really provided a formative experience for a lot of young Canadians.
But on the whole, nothing I'm seeing that's too gruesome. It's not anything like the kind of budget my fantasy government would have tabled, of course, but it is what it is.
On a "not the end of the world but still too bad", sad to see Katimavik get the axe. It was a nice, modest little program that really provided a formative experience for a lot of young Canadians.
But on the whole, nothing I'm seeing that's too gruesome. It's not anything like the kind of budget my fantasy government would have tabled, of course, but it is what it is.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
do more with less, find efficiencies, yadda yadda yadda
Any details? English CBC television is pretty much dead to me. CBC Radio, though? National treasure and an amazing use of tax dollars.
I've heard that since taking office, civil service jobs have increased by 30,000, so reducing the number by 19,000 doesn't even bring us back to the Liberal era. But that's not a very useful figure until we can compare where the cuts will be coming and who will be getting laid off.
Ugh. It's like clockwork: Cons take office, reduce taxes during boom, dropping government revenue by a few billion dollars. A few years later, the economy stumbles a bit and suddenly we have a deficit. Solution? Reduce funding to the arts (cut tens of millions of dollars), social programs, and fire government workers. Introduce bill to get "tough on crime" that will result in an increase in recidivism, social problems, and financial support from the government.
Yeah, from what little I've read it doesn't seem so bad.
It's not really a 'democracy' in any real sense when 39% of the voting population creates a government that can pass bills with impunity. The idea that this is an acceptable state of affairs is the heart of our government's sickness. It discourages cooperation and fucks over most of the population of this country.
115 mil to CBC by 2015
10%
Agreed. The Conservatives got elected with the majority of Canadians demonstrating a disagreement with the party, it's platform, and it's principles. How can anyone call that a mandate to rule?
Ether_Snake
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lol "we should accept it, the majority voted for it, let's all shut up".
Anyway, here comes the recession. Housing bubble collapse to follow shortly.
Oh, agreed on that point. But the government in place right now is not the one responsible for general apathy. It contributes to it, but by no mean is the sole responsible for this.
The system itself is democratic ; surely flawed, but democratic nonetheless. If 61 % of the population couldn't be bothered to go vote during a whole day, it's quite unfortunate. That is another matter entirely, though.
What do you want the government to do? Sit idle and do nothing because people are idiots who didn't vote?
By all mean, let's discuss it. And you don't have to accept it ; but not accepting it would lead you nowhere either. I just choose to see how things go and try to make the best for myself and my future in this environment. Until the masses revolt, we're stuck with this type of "democracy".
What most people don't understand about these CBC cuts is that:
a) they already received cuts a few years ago
b) their operations span all provinces/territories, with radio, TV, and internet operations.
Their current operating budget of ~1 billion is actually on the low side. Cutting 10% over three years is unrealistic and counterproductive, especially without addressing its mandate.
I'm not getting into the other areas, because it's just infuriating. Even Andrew Coyne, the well-known fiscal conservative commentator, bashed this budget.
What the Conservatives should do is consult the rest of Canada and have their interests at heart too. That would be efficient, effective, and possibly win them more seats in the future.
a) they already received cuts a few years ago
b) their operations span all provinces/territories, with radio, TV, and internet operations.
Their current operating budget of ~1 billion is actually on the low side. Cutting 10% over three years is unrealistic and counterproductive, especially without addressing its mandate.
I'm not getting into the other areas, because it's just infuriating. Even Andrew Coyne, the well-known fiscal conservative commentator, bashed this budget.
What the Conservatives should do is consult the rest of Canada and have their interests at heart too. That would be efficient, effective, and possibly win them more seats in the future.
"Do more with less" has been the Force's motto long before this budget. :-/
You sound like a knowledgeable guy when you talk about the economy, stocks and all that. Do you really think a recession is coming? :/
I know the situation in Europe is quite bleak right now and I can definitely agree that here in QC we are losing important employers at an alarming rate (pharmaceutical and aeronautical companies leaving, big industry are currently in lock out or leaving like Birch Papers and Rio Tinto for instance). I don't think Charest's Plan Nord will solve anything.
You seem deeply confused. I didn't say anything about turnout, and turnout is basically a red herring.
Of the people who voted, 39% of them voted for the CPC. That they now have unfettered control over all branches of the government from less than 40% of the vote is not at all democratic. It is basically tyranny of the minority.
And before someone suggests otherwise, I consider this a fundamental problem with our system and would say the same of any party's government using a 39% mandate like a club.
My apologies. I did indeed deeply confuse turnout rate with what you said, wow. Sorry about that.
For curiosity's sake, though, what was the average % of votes a majority government received since the beginning of this system? Trying to find it on Elections Canada website, but I don't think they have that.
Ether_Snake
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Charest' plan Nord is useless, it creates few jobs. Just yesterday there was an article about how diamonds extracted in Quebec won't be processed here, they extract them and ship them to be processed elsewhere. China's demand for our exports might lessen too.
And austerity worsens the economy, it doesn't improve it.
So I think a recession is likely. We'll see. I'm no expert.
Use wikipedia. It has a lot of details on every Canadian federal election.
But the last time was in 1984, when the PC won 50.03% to the Liberals' 28% and NDP's 18%. And in terms of the perverse results our system can produce, the PC party (35%) won a minority government from being down 5% in the popular vote from the Liberals (40%) in 1979.
And before 1984, the last 50%+ majority was Diefenbaker's PCs in 1958. Before that 1940.
And before the Progressive party came along in 1920 there were only 2 parties, so one of them always won a majority of the vote share.
BladeWorker
Member
I prefer threehundredeight, but same difference.
My favourite thing about vote share is that people take it as an argument that our electoral system isn't working.
Indeed, our electoral system works exactly the way it was intended to work; in any individual riding, the dude (usually a dude) with the most votes wins.
Of course, taking that on a macro level makes it seem like a crazy crazy distortion when some party with 36% of the popular vote wins a majority government, but in a system that rewards regionalism, I'm not sure why people expect things to end any differently.
On another note, I never ever ever want to see another Canadian Senator in a speedo again. EVER.
This might be tinfoil hat but I think the conservatives are just looking for ways to trash the CBC and diminish it's position so they can get rid of it.
To the other discussion I quite liked the alternative vote system proposed (and quashed) in the UK. The only party that I've seen even mention electoral reform has been the NDP.
Even then you're not getting an accurate representation of who people want and do not want in government. It's not working the way it should. Imagine a riding where 31% vote liberal 29% vote ndp and 40% vote cpc (with one vote for the communist party). The CPC guy wins now, right? but since the NDP is the furthest left party (outside of lolcommunists) it seems unlikely that they would ever want the CPC in charge. so if you had an alternative vote system where everyone wrote in an order of candidates they would like to see win (similar to the way they just handled the leadership election for the NDP). Then NDP votes would be able to write the Liberals in and the liberals would win. Vote splitting to the left wouldn't then be able to grant victories to the CPC or if the CPC is splitting votes with the liberals, they wouldn't be caught either.
Under such a system individuals within a riding are still able to decide their representative but it's a much more balanced system which more fully represents the interests of Canadians. Canadians would be able to vote first and foremost for the party they want to win, not the party they are okay with that they think has a chance to win.
BladeWorker
Member
Why consult with moderates when you have a solid base? Just sayin'.
Something 'working' and something 'working as intended' are not necessarily the same thing. When windows bluescreens it's working as intended (something blew up, the failure was detected, the system halted) but it sure ain't working.
But even then, I'm sorry but it doesn't work 'as intended' either. As intended there are only two parties. When the current parliamentary system was devised there were, essentially, two factions in government: royalists and (basically) republicans. All other divisions were secondary. You have to get into the 20th century before ANY westminster system has more than two stable parties in office. And this is a system that's been in operation, more or less, since the 17th century.
So yeah, the system does not operate as expected. It's completely dysfunctional and grants extraordinary power to extraordinarily small minorities and it is NOT BY DESIGN. While you can make an argument that the founding fathers of the US never intended *their* system to be partisan (and look how long that lasted), any notion that the Westminster system was intended to be such is patently false. Noble as the goal of regional representation may be, our system is the way it is because, frankly, during the dark ages and the renaissance conducting a general election any other way was simply impractical.
When you get 3 parties or more the distortions become clear and pronounced.
If the CBC was dismantled, I would see that as a cultural disaster for the country. Cutting their funding even 10% is unnecessary in my eyes. They provide an essential service, in all areas of the country. They also aren't owned by Bell, Rogers, or Shaw, something becoming increasingly rare these days.
As for the different voting/election system, we need to implement proportional rep to really allow proper representation in the house, but it wouldn't favour the Cons, so I would laugh for days if they went ahead and did it at some point.
DreamMachine
Member
Looks like we are own our own for food label inspection.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/30/canada-budget-2012-cfia-cuts_n_1391708.html?ref=canada
Sooner or later the rate this government is going we will be paying taxes for corporations and nothing for the people sigh.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/30/canada-budget-2012-cfia-cuts_n_1391708.html?ref=canada
Sooner or later the rate this government is going we will be paying taxes for corporations and nothing for the people sigh.
This is awful and there are some good points in there like how it could be disastrous for people with diseases that require them to carefully check the labels of the food they buy. Diabetes and high cholesterol are good examples.
Unless it hits a large number of Canadians at once, ie mass deaths, it will be seen as a positive for those looking at bureaucracy as too big/well paid. The people who don't realize where those 20k jobs come from and assume it just guys at a desk somewhere in Ottawa, the uninformed.
BladeWorker
Member
I'd argue that it does operate by design. When implemented, it was on the premise and understanding that it rewarded regionalism in population centres. As long as a party held on to its major population centres, it would win. Thinking that the signatories to Confederation didn't intend it to distort electoral outcomes in their favour is giving them way too much ethical credit.
Re-drawing of the riding formula and electoral boundaries have exacerbated what is inherently a partisan system. And we can change the system, but partisanship shall remain to distort any system we use in any way possible.
In the meantime, the guy with the most votes in his riding wins, and any ruling party has a perfect argument for maintaining a status quo.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Glad to see this very extensive, 500-page proposal containts nothing about our record levels of houshold debt, vanishing CMHC insurance reserve, or the ever-swelling housing bubble. Lets just do nothing and pretend we didnt' see this coming, and then when the shit hits the fan we'll blame the banks....and homebuyers.
Canada is following the same path as the US, and unless we at least attempt to deflate, housing will crash just as hard. Just look at any metric:
average home price vs average income.
Average household debt.
Homeownership rates.
We're basically matching the US or beating them, right before they crashed.
Canada is following the same path as the US, and unless we at least attempt to deflate, housing will crash just as hard. Just look at any metric:
average home price vs average income.
Average household debt.
Homeownership rates.
We're basically matching the US or beating them, right before they crashed.
So Don Cherry?
television, radio (specifically Radio2) and overseas offices.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
yeah, while most of the world has gone through housing bubbles and recessions in the past few years, our bubble has just gotten larger and larger :|.
Ether_Snake
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Check this page
http://www2.macleans.ca/interactive-budget-2012/
There's more interactive charts there.
In the 50s, corporate taxes made up almost 30% of the government's revenue. Today that.s 13%. Personal income on the other hand went from 28% from the same time period to 50%.
http://www2.macleans.ca/interactive-budget-2012/
There's more interactive charts there.
In the 50s, corporate taxes made up almost 30% of the government's revenue. Today that.s 13%. Personal income on the other hand went from 28% from the same time period to 50%.
Ether_Snake
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Liberal deputy Trudeau VS Conservative senator Brazeau, in the ring, in a few minutes!
The fight here LIVE IN A FEW MINUTES! http://www.tele-en-direct.blogspot.ca/2011/09/tv-lcn-quebec-en-direct.html
http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/sports/nouvelles/archives/2012/03/20120331-163934.html
I hope Trudeau wins.
The fight here LIVE IN A FEW MINUTES! http://www.tele-en-direct.blogspot.ca/2011/09/tv-lcn-quebec-en-direct.html
http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/sports/nouvelles/archives/2012/03/20120331-163934.html
I hope Trudeau wins.
Ether_Snake
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You sell it before it pops and move back in your parents' basement (or move to a cheaper city), or you keep it for years. Sell it, come live in Montreal, buy a good house cash.
LOL - yeah, that was the answer I thought of, but I was thinking more along the lines of somehow getting the equity out of the home without having the sell it. Pretty sure there isn't a good way to do it except for maybe downsizing for a bit.
Ether_Snake
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It would be stupid to sell if you stay there. It's like a stock, you don't lose anything just because it's share price falls, unless you sell at that point. You LIVE in your house, so keep leaving in it then. If it's worth something good today it will still be worth something good later. The bubble won't crash like it did in the US.
edit: Go Trudeau!
Learn2read
Member
Ether_Snake
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Trudeau won woot! Made Brazeau bleed. Take that Conservatives, all talk and no show! Now Justin's "pretty mama's boy" image has been boosted, good for him!
EnderWiggles
Member
This was posted in the fight thread by Dr.Guru of Peru, but I thought it might be better seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJlwAk0jzdQ
Is this really what the Sun News network is normally like? Does anyone know how their ratings have been? This is sooooooo much worse than anything I've seen on Fox News.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJlwAk0jzdQ
Is this really what the Sun News network is normally like? Does anyone know how their ratings have been? This is sooooooo much worse than anything I've seen on Fox News.
I didn't realize until today that Trudeau is 40 years old.
DreamMachine
Member
Today's Haperland News
Seeking clean slate, Baird pulls plug on Rights & Democracy
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ulls-plug-on-rights-democracy/article2390896/
F-35 purchase lacks 'due diligence', says auditor general
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/04/02/f35-auditor-general-report.html
Seeking clean slate, Baird pulls plug on Rights & Democracy
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ulls-plug-on-rights-democracy/article2390896/
F-35 purchase lacks 'due diligence', says auditor general
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/04/02/f35-auditor-general-report.html
Yep. :/
When implemented it was the only kind of voting system in existence. It's the electoral equivalent of a chipped stone dagger. The newest democracies of the word don't even consider our system as an option anymore and go straight to proportional systems.
AV is not a good system either. It has the same problems that FPTP does.
I like runoff voting for single person offices like mayor and stuff (actual runoff voting, not the instant kind). But for members of parliament or city council it sucks.
Exactly. Also neither the framers of the system in the UK or our own Fathers of Confederation (drunken louts that they were) ever considered the possibility of a pluralistic party system. It's to their credit they didn't legally entrench a two party system, but they absolutely did not consider the possibility of the kind of electoral distortion we see now, let alone consider it a good thing.
With two parties the kinds of distortion you might realistically see are swings of a few points and tend to encourage stability. With 3 or more parties the swings get into the tens of points and any claim to a democratic system, or enduring stability, go right out the window.
Ether_Snake
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http://translate.google.com/transla...ue/2012/04/03/005-droits-democratie-fin.shtml
So basically they will recreate it under a new name and use it as a propaganda harm of the party on foreign policy.
On the F-35: http://translate.google.com/transla...ederale/archives/2012/04/20120403-193708.html
A government worthy of a middle-east country.
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