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Mass Effect Andromeda's poor handling of LGBT

BeesEight

Member
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).

Maybe BioWare should make a character that is "canonically" gay/lesbian and you can save so much more resources by doing away with all those straight romance options.

I mean, they had no problem making (the first 2) Mass Effect's dictate the sexual orientation of the main character so why not put the shoe on the other foot if we're here quibbling about wasted time.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).
You really didn't think this one through, did you?
 
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).


I'm sorry, What??!

You make absolutely Zero sense right now
 
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).
tumblr_inline_o58r6dmSfe1suaed2_500.gif
 

BajiBoxer

Banned
The lack of a third gay love interest is kinda so-so to me, because they could probably make a DLC with a new gay/bi male love interest included to solve the problem.

That bit with the trans character is fucking egregious, not just because A) from what I can see, Ryder literally doesn't know or care that Hainley is trans, B) it makes the character being trans the focal point of the conversation and character, and C) it apparently does something trans people would never do, but because it is literally that stereotype of writers inserting characters who shove their race/sexuality/whatever in your face in order to look progressive.

Yeah, it's sounds lazy. It sounds lime "look at this trans character! Aren't we diverse?" rather than trying to create a believble person. There's also the issue of writing trans people for a game that involves a diverse super advanced society in the far off future. To me it seems like "trans" wouldn't be much of a thing as medical science would tackle the problem to such an extent that know one would ever know someone was born a with mismatched sex and gender without reviewing medical records, and most really wouldn't care.
 

Boem

Member
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).

You're an idiot. Grow up.

If you're older than 14, I feel really, really sad for you.
 

Lamptramp

Member
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).

At best a badly worded post here xrnzaaas, especially your implication that any LGBT representation adds to "silliness".

Also I'd argue that the majority (both in this thread & in the aether) don't want more (or even necessarily equal) options when its comes to this but if there are going to be options which cater to everyone then the developer should at the very least treat all with the same care and attention to detail.

The deadnaming is properly jarring and the lack of a gay squadmate just smacks of not particularly caring, considering how much time you spend (and bond) with your squadmates enjoying banter and reactions I can totally understand why people would be upset. It's just mind boggling.
 
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).

Introducing gay characters is silly? Is everyone straight in the future?
 

shandy706

Member
I always play a bi-female in Mass Effect.

I'm neither of those though (bi...or female), heh.

I've never been one to "role play" as myself in games. (minus custom players in Madden/NCAA/FIFA). I like playing as people/characters that don't represent me personally.

I can see wanting a character to be just like you in a lot of games though. Options are always good.
 

Harlequin

Member
I always play a bi-female in Mass Effect.

I'm neither of those though (bi...or female), heh.

I've never been one to "role play" as myself in games. (minus custom players in Madden/NCAA/FIFA). I like playing as people/characters that don't represent me personally.

I can see wanting a character to be just like you in a lot of games though. Options are always good.

Well, us non-straights are already doing that kind of "roleplaying" all the time in other games :p.
 

Monocle

Member
Yeah, it's sounds lazy. It sounds lime "look at this trans character! Aren't we diverse?" rather than trying to create a believble person. There's also the issue of writing trans people for a game that involves a diverse super advanced society in the far off future. To me it seems like "trans" wouldn't be much of a thing as medical science would tackle the problem to such an extent that know one would ever know someone was born a with mismatched sex and gender without reviewing medical records, and most really wouldn't care.
Nobody seems to care about creating an especially believable person when we're talking about straight characters, so I think it's long past time we dropped the dumb double standard. Two dimensional or not, token or not, you have to start somewhere. And right now there's a striking lack of diversity in games, so much so that we still have to have discussions like this one.

With that said, when devs put an obvious lack of effort into one particular type of character, then yeah, they definitely need to be called out.
 

Mergesort

Member
This is a tough subject lol
In my opinion people in this thread expect way too much of Bioware. I don't mind LGBT in my games, it makes them more realistic. But look at rest of the game and see what a fuck up it is, WTH did you expect then? They can't manage to create a somewhat realistic straight character with correct animation and you expect them to create a realistic LGBT character? Sorry to tell you this, but you are expecting too much. I can only image that BW management went like:"Guys/Girls don't forget we are a LGBT friendly company. Create some LGBT characters and love options". And then there is this straight writer sitting there not able to create realistic straight characters tasked to create all the variety of LGBT characters to satisfy everyone's demands. Of course it would turn out like this!

I guess this is all part of the mismanagement that happened for the game overall. For realistic LGBT stuff you need real LGBT people. I bet they didn't hire anyone for it. So please don't expect straight people to cover your demands without support from LGBT people. I didn't even know about deadnaming until OPs post, dead naming is really rude.

I hope they patch everything, not just animations(which is a must), bugs etc. but also writing and story fuckups. This includes giving us all LBGT choices :)
 

Maledict

Member
This is a tough subject lol
In my opinion people in this thread expect way too much of Bioware. I don't mind LGBT in my games, it makes them more realistic. But look at rest of the game and see what a fuck up it is, WTH did you expect then? They can't manage to create a somewhat realistic straight character with correct animation and you expect them to create a realistic LGBT character? Sorry to tell you this, but you are expecting too much. I can only image that BW management went like:"Guys/Girls don't forget we are a LGBT friendly company. Create some LGBT characters and love options". And then there is this straight writer sitting there not able to create realistic straight characters tasked to create all the variety of LGBT characters to satisfy everyone's demands. Of course it would turn out like this!

I guess this is all part of the mismanagement that happened for the game overall. For realistic LGBT stuff you need real LGBT people. I bet they didn't hire anyone for it. So please don't expect straight people to cover your demands without support from LGBT people. I didn't even know about deadnaming until OPs post, dead naming is really rude.

I hope they patch everything, not just animations(which is a must), bugs etc. but also writing and story fuckups. This includes giving us all LBGT choices :)

I don't think you read the thread at all. This isn't about animations. The actual quantity and options available for gay men are substantially, objectively, less than any other sexuality. to the point where it really feels like an afterthought.

Yes, the animations are bad, and yes, the writing is bad throughout. But that's not what this thread is talking about at all.
 

Mergesort

Member
I don't think you read the thread at all. This isn't about animations. The actual quantity and options available for gay men are substantially, objectively, less than any other sexuality. to the point where it really feels like an afterthought.

Yes, the animations are bad, and yes, the writing is bad throughout. But that's not what this thread is talking about at all.

I did read it. The game is unfinished overall, so i am not surprised at all.
 

LeonSPBR

Member
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).

What are you trying to say??

Making a LBGT friendly game is a mistake?? Including gay/bi char = silly game????

This is an embarrassing post.
 

Snagret

Member
I did read it. The game is unfinished overall, so i am not surprised at all.
Writing and vocal performances are things that happen fairly early on in a game's development. Regardless of how "finished" the game is, their plan for the game was to give LGBT romance options the short end of the stick. Perhaps it wasn't maliciously done, but it's certainly representative of a pervasive thoughtlessness in the industry regarding LGBT representation in games. The further along we get with the industry putting its head in the sand and pulling out the "innocent ignorance" card, the less cute it gets as an excuse.

You might not be surprised, but "shock" is irrelevant to the disappointment being expressed in this thread. These issues are not comparable to technical flaws with the final product.
 

Eumi

Member
Nobody seems to care about creating an especially believable person when we're talking about straight characters, so I think it's long past time we dropped the dumb double standard. Two dimensional or not, token or not, you have to start somewhere. And right now there's a striking lack of diversity in games, so much so that we still have to have discussions like this one.
One thing to mention though is that you can't create an 'offensive' depiction of a straight person. Well, you can, but to do that you'd kinda have to create a setting where every straight character is the same offensive stereotype (which I guess would be making them all bigots or something?), and you'd really have to go out of your way to do that.

Whereas with trans characters especially it's really easy to create one that can come across as offensive even if you're trying to be progressive. Look at games like Catherine, where some champion the trans character there whilst others see them as a transphobic joke.

I think a lot of people need to strike a balance between praising games for attempting to be inclusive whilst at the same time criticising their mistakes. As you said, this is a starting point so hopefully as time goes on devs and the gaming community at large will get more comfortable with the conversation.

Not that I can comment on ME:A's trans character from a single screenshot lacking context however.
 

shandy706

Member
Well, us non-straights are already doing that kind of "roleplaying" all the time in other games :p.

Haha....excellent point.

Playing as yourself would be a tough thing to find in a lot of games. I'm sorry the option isn't provided more often.

I've never had that want, but I can see it not even being an option really sucky. My daughters always jump at chance when they see a female character. Both played the end of Uncharted 4 like 5 times each, haha.

They both wanted to try Horizon too, but it's a bit much for them to handle at their ages.
 

OrionX

Member
The main thing that bums me out is not having a gay squadmate option. It just feels more personal when the romance is with a character that's more integral to the story, fighting directly beside you and experiencing all the same things. After DA:I and Kaidan in ME3, I felt a little blindsided by this. It sounds like a step back, however big or small it may be.

That being said, their inclusiveness is the reason I was drawn to Bioware in the first place, and a big part of why I like them so much. In a world where a lot of people try to tell you that what you are is wrong, it means that much more when someone reaches out and tells you that you do belong, that it's okay to be yourself. I'm glad that Bioware's at least still trying to do that, and I hope they continue to, because it means a lot to me.
 

JerkShep

Member
I did read it. The game is unfinished overall, so i am not surprised at all.

The issue is that everyone but gay Scott Ryder han tons of options and most of them with more content.

Like, I sort of don't give a fuck about romances in these games, I think budget could be better spent elsewhere. They should have better diversity period, not just because you can bang them.

But since Bioware time and again have made romances one of their selling points and it's clear that a lot of effort, time and money went into this aspect of the game in Andromeda, it's kind of shitty what they did with gay options. It makes me think that the variety of f/f romances are just there because straight gamers enjoy their steamy alien girl on girl action and Bioware was happy to oblige. It sucks, especially after Inquisition did way better.
 
No but if you play a character as gay male you cannot get the trophy for 3 different romances as that scenario only gives you 2 options

I imagine someone just writing plot lines thinking that they're being inclusive only to have their stance/belief in LGBT issues called into question because a mathematical analysis of the relative ease of unlocking achievements revealed that technically the gay route would take more time.

I want to see the studio where they're like "this game is very LGBT inclusive. We analyzed completion times to verify it and saw that equality had been achieved."
 

Maledict

Member
I imagine someone just writing plot lines thinking that they're being inclusive only to have their stance/belief in LGBT issues called into question because a mathematical analysis of the relative ease of unlocking achievements revealed that technically the gay route would take more time.

I want to see the studio where they're like "this game is very LGBT inclusive. We analyzed completion times to verify it and saw that equality had been achieved."

Yep because that's the entire argument being presented here. You nailed it in one.

Oh no wait, you didn't read the post or any of the follow-ups at all, and thought you'd make a funny. Congratulations on completely missing the entire point of the thread, well done.
 

Eumi

Member
I imagine someone just writing plot lines thinking that they're being inclusive only to have their stance/belief in LGBT issues called into question because a mathematical analysis of the relative ease of unlocking achievements revealed that technically the gay route would take more time.

I want to see the studio where they're like "this game is very LGBT inclusive. We analyzed completion times to verify it and saw that equality had been achieved."
The achievement is not the problem. The achievement is a small part of a much larger problem that has existed since the series' first game.

You're arguing that there is no reason to treat an illness because one symptom of it isn't too bad.
 

Mergesort

Member
The issue is that everyone but gay Scott Ryder han tons of options and most of them with more content.

Like, I sort of don't give a fuck about romances in these games, I think budget could be better spent elsewhere. They should have better diversity period, not just because you can bang them.

But since Bioware time and again have made romances one of their selling points and it's clear that a lot of effort, time and money went into this aspect of the game in Andromeda, it's kind of shitty what they did with gay options. It makes me think that the variety of f/f romances are just there because straight gamers enjoy their steamy alien girl on girl action and Bioware was happy to oblige. It sucks, especially after Inquisition did way better.

I get it, but the game is lacking in so many departments. Straight management told straight devs to add some LGBT, of course it didn't work out well. This is just one point in a long list of Andromeda fuckups. My concern here is that too many people take this personally like it's a hate crime or something. I myself don't believe that anyone at BW wanted or did anything on purpose to discriminate anybody in the LGBT community.

At this point it would rather make sense to make one "The Problems of Andromeda |OT|" than discuss every single issue in this game in a seperate thread.
 
Haha....excellent point.

Playing as yourself would be a tough thing to find in a lot of games. I'm sorry the option isn't provided more often.

I've never had that want, but I can see it not even being an option really sucky.

It's interesting how the second meaning of "want" makes that sentence even truer. You've "never had that want" in the sense that you've never found yourself "wanting for" (lacking) games that let yourself play as a straight male. This of course leads to the other meaning (abundance = no particular craving for it).
 

Sai-kun

Banned
I get it, but the game is lacking in so many departments. Straight management told straight devs to add some LGBT, of course it didn't work out well. This is just one point in a long list of Andromeda fuckups. My concern here is that too many people take this personally like it's a hate crime or something. I myself don't believe that anyone at BW wanted or did anything on purpose to discriminate anybody in the LGBT community.

At this point it would rather make sense to make one "The Problems of Andromeda |OT|" than discuss every single issue in this game in a seperate thread.

cool, way to minimize the legitimate frustrations of a marginalized community just because you don't give a shit about us or our problems
 

royox

Member
Well, imagine it the other way around. The players who would want to play as solely straight male Ryder wouldn’t be able to Platinum Andromeda without a play-through where they have to romance another man. There would most likely be lot of outrage about forcing players to choose a gay male option if they want to platinum the game.

I may be wrong but on DAI straight male was the one with less party romanceable options. You only had Cassandra.

Harding Bioware...you only had one fucking job.
 

Ketkat

Member
I get it, but the game is lacking in so many departments. Straight management told straight devs to add some LGBT, of course it didn't work out well. This is just one point in a long list of Andromeda fuckups. My concern here is that too many people take this personally like it's a hate crime or something. I myself don't believe that anyone at BW wanted or did anything on purpose to discriminate anybody in the LGBT community.

At this point it would rather make sense to make one "The Problems of Andromeda |OT|" than discuss every single issue in this game in a seperate thread.

Its obviously not meant to be offensive, or else it wouldn't be in the game like that. But just because it was born from ignorance doesn't somehow make it okay. Its still deadnaming, comes off clunky, and is kind of offensive.

I get that they are different Bioware teams, but Inquisition did a much better job with Krem and romance options than this game has with LGBT issues. They only had to look at their own products to see what was working.
 

Harlequin

Member
I may be wrong but on DAI straight male was the one with less party romanceable options. You only had Cassandra.

Harding Bioware...you only had one fucking job.

No, straight guys, gay guys, gay women and straight women playing as qunari or dwarves had an equal amount of options in DAI (two) and straight women playing as elves or humans had the most (four).
 

Mergesort

Member
cool, way to minimize the legitimate frustrations of a marginalized community just because you don't give a shit about us or our problems

Cool, thank for my making my fucking point. I do care about you and your problems, but this is getting blown out of proportion like Mass Effect Andromeda is literally an attack on LBGT. It's not! It's just a fucked up game. I don't think that anybody actively tried to fuck up this part of the game. I am just saying that too many people are reading too much into it. Taking it very personal for example.

I bet they fucked up animation on purpose so we can great memes lol
 
BioWare has made their games "LBGT friendly" in the past (especially in terms of potential romance candidates) and that was their mistake imo. Now people want all sexuality options to have the same amount of content and BioWare can't spare additional resources on less popular variations (also introducing even more gay/bisexual characters would make the game look even more silly).

Not silly:

aliens-ET.jpg


Silly:

o-GAY-KISSING-facebook1.jpg
 

Meowster

Member
Dorian and Kaidan in Mass Effect 3 were both awesome but I'm not really surprised. Gay men have always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to Bioware games.. Kaidan only being an option after two games. They do try though and tend to do better than most when it comes to it, so I'm not as harsh to them. This is disappointing to hear since I was planning on playing as a gay Ryder. Maybe I'll just be bi lol.
 

Mergesort

Member
Its obviously not meant to be offensive, or else it wouldn't be in the game like that. But just because it was born from ignorance doesn't somehow make it okay. Its still deadnaming, comes off clunky, and is kind of offensive.

I get that they are different Bioware teams, but Inquisition did a much better job with Krem and romance options than this game has with LGBT issues. They only had to look at their own products to see what was working.

Yes exactly.
1. It was not meant to be offensive or no LBGT option would be available at all.
2. It's not ok! Like any other issue in the game this is unacceptable for an AAA Title!
3. The deadnaming is offensive, if done on purpose, but I don't believe it was. It was just bound to happen if you put a straight writer behind this! I didn't know what deadnaming is until now!
4. The gay options, deadnaming etc. should be fixed like all the other issues in the game.
5. They did not learn from Dragon Age inquisition. They claim it but the game is telling a different story. I agree with this.
 

Harlequin

Member
Cool, thank for my making my fucking point. I do care about you and your problems, but this is getting blown out of proportion like Mass Effect Andromeda is literally an attack on LBGT. It's not! It's just a fucked up game. I don't think that anybody actively tried to fuck up this part of the game. I am just saying that too many people are reading too much into it. Taking it very personal for example.

I bet they fucked up animation on purpose so we can great memes lol

I'd get that if other romances were equally affected but it's unfortunately quite obvious that M/M romances got by far the shortest end of the stick and while time constraints or development hell may be responsible for some of that, it seems unlikely that they're solely responsible. Not to mention that some devs strung gay fans along on Twitter, getting their hopes up. (I'm sure they weren't doing it out of malice but it's still an incredible display of tone-deafness seeing as they must've known about how poor their game's M/M content was and that many people were hoping for Jaal to be bi.) Chances are if they had just announced all available romance options a couple of weeks ago like they did for Dragon Age: Inquisition this wouldn't have turned into quite as much of a shitshow (we would've still complained and not been happy about it, but part of why people are so incredibly outraged is that they'd gotten their hopes up only to have them quashed at the last possible minute without any of the devs saying so much as a peep about it other than teasing awesome romances and stringing people along on Twitter).
 
Men can't romance Jaal?

ETA: Just looked it up on the PC Gamer romance guide. Dang, earlier it was reported that Jaal could be romanced by male Ryder. That does suck that a gay male character can't romance someone on the squad.
 
I don't think that anybody actively tried to fuck up this part of the game.

Did they purposely decide "We hate those gay dudes, let's give them the short end of the stick"? No, obviously not.

Did they, at some point during production, decide not to make any gay male romances that are as story-integral and visually detailed as those available for every other gender combo?

Yes, clearly, or it wouldn't have happened. That's what we're objecting to. It doesn't have to be borne out of conscious bigotry to be a very disappointing choice that leaves a portion of the player base feeling excluded.
 

Mergesort

Member
I'd get that if other romances were equally affected but it's unfortunately quite obvious that M/M romances got by far the shortest end of the stick and while time constraints or development hell may be responsible for some of that, it seems unlikely that they're solely responsible. Not to mention that some devs strung gay fans along on Twitter, getting their hopes up. (I'm sure they weren't doing it out of malice but it's still an incredible display of tone-deafness seeing as they must've known about how poor their game's M/M content was and that many people were hoping for Jaal to be bi.) Chances are if they had just announced all available romance options a couple of weeks ago like they did for Dragon Age: Inquisition this wouldn't have turned into quite as much of a shitshow (we would've still complained and not been happy about it, but part of why people are so incredibly outraged is that they'd gotten their hopes up only to have them quashed at the last possible minute without any of the devs saying so much as a peep about it other than teasing awesome romances and stringing people along on Twitter).

It should get fixed like any other bug/issue in the game. I am not taking the bad animations personally, I wouldn't take missing straight options personally. It would be a bug that needs fixing like anyhting else. And i do hope they do so.
 
Mergesort, can you clarify why simple criticism of BioWare is making you so absurdly angry? Like, no one is talking about them being willfully anti-LGBT, but it's extremely apparent that their errors were borne of ignorance and laziness. Why did m/m sex scenes get the shaft where other sex scenes weren't? I mean, where is this coming from?

this is getting blown out of proportion like Mass Effect Andromeda is literally an attack on LBGT.

What post made you think this was something anyone believed?
 

amoebae

Member
Is it as bad as the initial reports, e.g.
a fling with an off-ship NPC and a truncated romance with the engineer?

Also transferring my post from bottom of the last page to here.

It's worth pointing out that Bioware actively tries to engage with their LGBT fanbase. They give talks at GaymerX regularly and have been open and vocal about their commitment to LGBT representation in their games. That's part of the reason this is such a painful backslide.

A friend of mine who was horribly disappointed by the lack of M/M romance in the original trilogy is really dejected over this. He's met people from Bioware, he loves their games and writing, and when we played through the trilogy a year or two back he kinda accepted, "okay, I'll play as FemShep, and I'm sure down the line they'll get better at this." Hearing his options have been limited to a pair of NPCs - one of whom seems fairly minor - has really put him off the game. Said it felt a bit like a slap in the face.

Not quite as bad as that. But near enough.
Neither of the 2 m/m options have unique faces. Truncated romance with ship's engineer is correct, yes. The off-world one actually seems mildly better done in terms of content, since it's entwined with actual mission content. And he's hotter. But the romance stuff itself is very lacking. Half the time you're speaking to him your squad are stood behind you because it's part of the mission - that includes some of the actual romantic dialogue as well, which is awkward as hell. And at least two of the romance scenes where there is tenderness and what not have you in full armour, not even casual clothes. It looks clunky as hell. And of course, the bisexual guy has to mention his ex girlfriend. Because he can't be too gay, you see. Sorry, I'm salty. And from what I remember there's no option for a declaration of love or anything like that. Any commitment is tenuous. It feels like a fling, or something superficial, even though it does have its moments and seems sweet in places. And a fling with no sex, at that.

Frankly, none of this is good enough. This is BioWare in 2017. I mean, wtaf?
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Cool, thank for my making my fucking point. I do care about you and your problems, but this is getting blown out of proportion like Mass Effect Andromeda is literally an attack on LBGT. It's not! It's just a fucked up game. I don't think that anybody actively tried to fuck up this part of the game. I am just saying that too many people are reading too much into it. Taking it very personal for example.

I bet they fucked up animation on purpose so we can great memes lol

you're right, it's crazy that lgbt people, and gay men/trans people in particular, might take ignorant/shoddy representations of themselves personally

totally wack. cmon queers, lets get back to our den of iniquity.
 

Harlequin

Member
It should get fixed like any other bug/issue in the game. I am not taking the bad animations personally, I wouldn't take missing straight options personally. It would be a bug that needs fixing like anyhting else. And i do hope they do so.

Even if that were the case, then that'd at the very least mean that they handled the situation incredibly badly in terms of communication. If this were truly a matter of just patching sutff that didn't get finished back in, why wouldn't they just say so? Why run head-first into this PR nightmare if they could just say "Yeah, sorry about that, we'll patch it ASAP"?
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Someone please tell me it only gets better from this.

"Flirting"

I'm not a lesbian female but I'm pretty sure that's not how they flirt right???

Lesbians come in all shapes and size friend.

I can tell you for sure that awkward flirting with terrible approaches happen all the time with Lesbian's just as they do with a straight person. Not only that, but this is how alot of the Lesbian community view the interactions between Mercy/Pharah when they write fan fiction and fan art, one being very awkward and trying to be smooth but failing.

I can't flirt worth crap so if I tried (I wouldn't lol) then I would likely sound more like Ryder here then any smooth operator.
 

Snagret

Member
It should get fixed like any other bug/issue in the game. I am not taking the bad animations personally, I wouldn't take missing straight options personally. It would be a bug that needs fixing like anyhting else. And i do hope they do so.
Dude, those aren't comparable. It's not "just a bug" when held against the context of the marginalization of the LGBT community, which is not only fairly rampant in the industry but in society in general as well.

Likening the situation to them not including a straight option is pretty offensive. It's like saying you as a hypothetical white person wouldn't be offended if someone called you a cracker, so why are black people offended by the n-word. Historical context and power dynamics matter. And ignorance of the offending party doesn't excuse the offense caused.

I'll repeat myself from earlier, this is not comparable to bugs or other technical flaws.
 
You cannot seriously be arguing that trans people shouldn't raise their concern because 200 years in the future space trans people might not have the same problem with it... That actually cannot be your argument...

The future isn't going to make our old names not kinda feel weird... I have managed to go through life with next to no discrimination or hate (I am stupid lucky for that) but even then even hearing my old name in reference to other people kinda feels weird let alone when people ask what it was out of polite curiosity, space travel and aliens aren't going to change that feeling.

Like Aliens and far distance human space travel doesn't exist... trans people do.
You're being a little unfair. I specifically said it was okay for people to raise their concerns, even though I personally would probably disagree with some of the complaints. It's bad writing (again, this is Bioware), but I think it came from a decent place, and that's my argument. We aren't talking about another character trying to shame or remove this trans character's actual identity -- traditional deadnaming -- it's just that character talking about their own history in a clumsy way. You might find it extremely unlikely, and that's fine, but that doesn't inherently make it wrong or transphobic.

As it's been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, trans identity has meant different things in different cultures and at other points in history. And (as I mentioned) some trans people today are more okay with this sort of thing than others. I mean no insult, but your feelings aren't as universal as you seem to think, even outside of some crazy sci-fi fantasy setting. (This is true of all our feelings, we all do this.) I'm only bringing up 'history' as a counter-point to the idea that your feelings represent some universality. I think the important aspect here comes down to the admittedly murky area of intent, and I don't see any malice or cruelty in what Bioware was attempting.

Honestly the most unlikely thing here is that the character would have an old name to begin with, or that the Mass Effect universe would even possess binary gender definitions. (Even having bodies period is kind of unlikely.) But Bioware has always been shitty at world building, and in their defense the market might not be particularly receptive to them going all posthuman.

(Just talking about the trans stuff here.)

(PS: There was textual stuff to suggest Dumbledore was gay, there was always a hint, though I'd agree it was very subtle.)
 

Eppy Thatcher

God's had his chance.
So I always thought it was strange that your crewmates changed their sexual orientation depending on your character that you create. Always seemed kinda weird to me not to mention company ink and all that kind of made the romance options in this game a bit of a silly side thing. Like yeh you know i'm gonna try to hit all the blue aliens in this game right?

So ... if you're going to make squad mates bend their personality and sexual orientation to your main character... Why differentiate at all?
Like why you not be able to have essentially EXACTLY the same dialogue in ANY relationship cutscene with the him/her swapped in as needed?

What a way to invite criticism to your game. Still need to go youtube the sex scenes so i can see how terribly animated they are. I can't imagine standard femryders O-face... *shudders*
 
Cool, thank for my making my fucking point. I do care about you and your problems, but this is getting blown out of proportion like Mass Effect Andromeda is literally an attack on LBGT. It's not! It's just a fucked up game. I don't think that anybody actively tried to fuck up this part of the game. I am just saying that too many people are reading too much into it. Taking it very personal for example.

I bet they fucked up animation on purpose so we can great memes lol

Please stop policing actual gay men's reactions. Once again, it's not that it's a malicious attack. What we're saying is that it was a purposeful decision at some point, probably made partially based on the thought that including m/m romance options is not a priority, which is a huge slap in the face given Bioware's history and also given the lack of representation in gaming in general. It's a step in the wrong direction, that's why people are upset.
 

Mergesort

Member
Mergesort, can you clarify why simple criticism of BioWare is making you so absurdly angry? Like, no one is talking about them being willfully anti-LGBT, but it's extremely apparent that their errors were borne of ignorance and laziness. Why did m/m sex scenes get the shaft where other sex scenes weren't? I mean, where is this coming from?



What post made you think this was something anyone believed?

Haha you can't see my face right now, but I am not angry at all^^
The criticism is valid, as this is a bug that needs to be fixed. You say nobody is talking about them being anti-LBGT and at the same time say they were lazy and ignorant. Them being lazy about it would mean being anti-LBGT. In my option that probably isn't true. I imagine the devs as hardworking people that worked their ass off for 5 years to make this game. They probably need one or two more, but that wasn't their decision. The people who worked at the love-partner-system probably wanted to include all possible options, they just didn't make it in time. That's true for many things in this game. And yes I feel like it should be patched into the game.

And as to where this is coming from, I don't know for sure, but I would bet it's because of deadlines and mismanagement and most likely not the dev working on it.
 
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