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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Instead of complaining all the time when facing Varian because he counters most of the heroes I like to play, I decided to look at him a little bit better. Apparently, he has a talent that makes him lower his cooldowns when parrying stuff ... I'm such an idiot. #foreverwoodtier
I should just play the heroes that annoy me when facing them so that I know how to handle them better.
I should just play the heroes that annoy me when facing them so that I know how to handle them better.
I was part of the problem but no more. At least now I'm aware of it.
@alur
That gif was on point omg I'm in stiches here.
clockworkinyou
Banned
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
So after more time playing Cassia, I gotta say Fend is a really weird ability.
It seems like you can cancel it, but some of it still goes out. So maybe there are 9 hits and it comes out in groups of 3. If you catch it early you'll only be in for a little bit but she'll still commit to 3 hits, and if you're a bit late she'll finish another 3 before the cancel takes effect.
The cancel is useful because the move is target-based so it can be easy to have it come out at the wrong angle if you weren't careful enough tracking your own positioning vs anticipating target movement, yet the way that it locks you into a position, even though it is technically only for 3 hits, makes it feel like it ought to be unstoppable, which it isn't.
That incongruity between the true nature of its mutability and its feeling means that not only can you get stunned out of it, but even a displacement bump will end it. In one sense, that feels wrong to me. The way it locks you into the position makes it seem like the vulnerability of the move should be the fact you're committing to a locked position, therefore a bump shouldn't cancel it, but move it to the side, and only a stun should outright stop it. Yet on the other hand, you can cancel after 1/3 of it and I wouldn't want to give that up, so maybe bump-outs do make sense.
I can't think of many other moves in the game that have this weird partial cancellation, but maybe I just haven't run into the situations that would make me notice them.
It seems like you can cancel it, but some of it still goes out. So maybe there are 9 hits and it comes out in groups of 3. If you catch it early you'll only be in for a little bit but she'll still commit to 3 hits, and if you're a bit late she'll finish another 3 before the cancel takes effect.
The cancel is useful because the move is target-based so it can be easy to have it come out at the wrong angle if you weren't careful enough tracking your own positioning vs anticipating target movement, yet the way that it locks you into a position, even though it is technically only for 3 hits, makes it feel like it ought to be unstoppable, which it isn't.
That incongruity between the true nature of its mutability and its feeling means that not only can you get stunned out of it, but even a displacement bump will end it. In one sense, that feels wrong to me. The way it locks you into the position makes it seem like the vulnerability of the move should be the fact you're committing to a locked position, therefore a bump shouldn't cancel it, but move it to the side, and only a stun should outright stop it. Yet on the other hand, you can cancel after 1/3 of it and I wouldn't want to give that up, so maybe bump-outs do make sense.
I can't think of many other moves in the game that have this weird partial cancellation, but maybe I just haven't run into the situations that would make me notice them.
Iron Fist
I'll give QM crap about bad composition match ups all day (I just don't have much fun without both a tank and a support on both sides), but I love the slightly weird drafts you get in unranked.
Our team: Diablo (me), Zul'Jin, Azmodan, Greymane, Auriel
Enemy team: Tracer, Johanna, Tyrande, Tassadar, Varian (Colossus Smash)
Map was BoE. We had a hard time picking any of them off, but they were just incapable of keeping up damage wise. We routinely lost a hero or two and then won the immortal anyway. We ended up winning, even with our odd team, due to an Azmo push while we distracted them at the final immortal battle.
Our team: Diablo (me), Zul'Jin, Azmodan, Greymane, Auriel
Enemy team: Tracer, Johanna, Tyrande, Tassadar, Varian (Colossus Smash)
Map was BoE. We had a hard time picking any of them off, but they were just incapable of keeping up damage wise. We routinely lost a hero or two and then won the immortal anyway. We ended up winning, even with our odd team, due to an Azmo push while we distracted them at the final immortal battle.
scoobs
Member
I've said this a few times in this thread, but revisiting heroes you haven't touched in months is so rewarding. I'm back on the Protoss hype train, Alarak and Artanis fucking destroy! My life for Aiur
Also just turned on HOTSlogs pre-game MMR feature and holy shit how did I live without this? Neato.
I've tried that yesterday with Jaina, it did not go well. I was used to playing Jaina during her sprint/ice block aggressive days but now getting used to poke with q before flanking is hard. Doesn't help that people just wanted to feed all day for some reason didn't help either. Yes, people were dying even more than me which was weird. The sadder part was that I was placed right the middle of my team for % for post game report in hotdoggies. Clearly, I'm doing something wrong too.
As for the pre-game mmr feature, I'm not relying on it too much because while I am always uploading my games not everybody is. So sometimes, it skews your perspective too much.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yeah I've been rocking Sonya recently. She still got it.
Sonya is back at the top along with the frost brothers as far as Tank/bruisers goes. She bullies a lot of solo laners match up wise.
Well that reassures me. I was mostly trying to zone and slow the other team so that my teammates could get an easier time killing them. Rooting an illidan for a tychus to clean up afterwards sure doesn't push numbers but relieve a lot of pressure.
She used to be a very active hero but the changes they made to her kind of made her a passive backliney hero, she can still get great value off a flank but it's more all-in than before
She has a pretty confused design now. Shes greymaneish in that she is supposed to hit qs until she gets help to all in with w, e, rof, but she also needs to blow a spell to get chilled q's and to do this she either needs to get unsafe or hope they are dumb enough to get hit with a raw w, like her synergy is very high with a lot of the cast but she is also pretty reliant on setup to max out her potential.
Itd be cool if she had a cdr mechanic tied to hitting chilled targets baseline, itd make arcane intellect a lot more valuable too. Her whole lvl 4 tree needs to be viable but you just lose so much going q build and not having the potential dbl q proc. Like frost armor is awesome but it's a purely defensive talent at lvl 4...with a baseline cdr mechanic itd def be more takeable and the q talent there could just be a more greedy pick which is fine to have too
She has a pretty confused design now. Shes greymaneish in that she is supposed to hit qs until she gets help to all in with w, e, rof, but she also needs to blow a spell to get chilled q's and to do this she either needs to get unsafe or hope they are dumb enough to get hit with a raw w, like her synergy is very high with a lot of the cast but she is also pretty reliant on setup to max out her potential.
Itd be cool if she had a cdr mechanic tied to hitting chilled targets baseline, itd make arcane intellect a lot more valuable too. Her whole lvl 4 tree needs to be viable but you just lose so much going q build and not having the potential dbl q proc. Like frost armor is awesome but it's a purely defensive talent at lvl 4...with a baseline cdr mechanic itd def be more takeable and the q talent there could just be a more greedy pick which is fine to have too
Question. Really new to hots, but thought I'd check it out after seeing a video of the hots 2.0 changes. I wanted to ask, should I just save my gold right now for the changes or spend it on a new character now (I could go either way here, I'm not really dying to get a new character but if I got one I wouldn't mind). I got muradin from the tutorial and tracer (from somewhere).
I would recommend waiting for a couple of reasons.
1) There's a chance you'll get some new heroes in your initial lootboxes you get when you first log in to 2.0. If you're fairly new to the game, you won't get too many, but there's still a chance. Not a huge reason to wait, but it's something.
2) The bigger reason is that we're getting a new Nexus Challenge to go with 2.0. In the first Nexus Challenge, you could earn 6 specific new heroes just for playing games with a friend, but if you already had those heroes, that specific reward didn't give you anything new. So I would wait at the very least until we know the details of the Nexus Challenge 2.0 so you can avoid buying any heroes that you might earn for free very shortly.
At the same time tho iirc the timing for the 2.0 patch drop is unknown and if you are starting out youll still get a high chest drop rate when trying out heroes so i feel limiting yourself might be a bit unnecesary. Maybe spend for some cheaper heroes?
Tho i suppose if you are starting out the free rotation is there, i just dont think you need to worry about currency or whatever if you find a hero you enjoy playing
Tho i suppose if you are starting out the free rotation is there, i just dont think you need to worry about currency or whatever if you find a hero you enjoy playing
Thanks for the input.
BTW, I don't know good from bad heroes. Any day top 5 heroes for a new person in case I go get a character? I looked at valla and thought she looked interesting
Dependz on what you like to play, the strongest heroes imo atm are zarya, arthas, valla, tass, and malf. Malf and arthas are pretty good beginner heroes. Wouldnt worry about tiers too much tho, the existing lists assume good knowledge of the game. Valla is cheap and good but ppl might struggle with her if they dont have prior moba exp
The roadmap site (http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/heroes20/) says Apr 17th is the unveiling of the next hero (also the next battleground). So that should be Genji and the Overwatch map.
It is? I'm pretty sure we've known it's the 25th since the announcement unless it were to get moved up for some reason.
I can't wait to see what they do with the Overwatch map, myself.
It's a pretty good list. I don't know that I'd include Thrall as easy to play, at least not when it comes to putting out competent damage numbers versus other heroes, but I guess if you're talking melee he'd be one of the easier ones in that regard.
Thank you for the suggestions. My experience with mobas is very limited. Like 3 matches in lol and I couldn't even make it passes the tutorial in dota 2
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
wouldn't recommend sylv. She's difficult to play to the highest potential.
scoobs
Member
The best heroes for new players who have never played a MOBA are Raynor, Muradin, and Uther IMO.
Raynor will teach you how to do damage effectively, Muradin to learn how to tank for a team and just be a melee hero in general, and Uther to support because he's got simple point and click heals, has CC, and a really impactful ultimate.
Raynor will teach you how to do damage effectively, Muradin to learn how to tank for a team and just be a melee hero in general, and Uther to support because he's got simple point and click heals, has CC, and a really impactful ultimate.
Oh woops i thought it was in limbo
Top 5 for new players imo:
Greymane (top tier too)
Muradin/arthas
Malf
Li ming
Zagara
Imo while raynor is simple and low depth, if you're trying to grasp his style by playing him it's kind of a waste since all ranged characters do what he does anyway. He's cheap tho
Nazeebo is good for new players too
Uther is horrible for solo-queue play. Worst healing through-put in the game.
u srs? The amount of feeding I see on even the semi-competent Greymane's I encounter is p large. And you'd recommend a hero that requires that much knowledge of timing/engagements/disengagements to a new player? I thought you were pessimistic about the player base's skill level mate, not optimistic lol
Yeah idk how hard it is to hold down q and throw out w on cd
scoobs
Member
For someone who has literally never played a MOBA, and the competition he will be facing, Uther is totally fine.
He's not tho. Just play Malf and Q up people and take Tranq. That AoE healing capability is really important.
u srs? The amount of feeding I see on even the semi-competent Greymane's I encounter is p large. And you'd recommend a hero that requires that much knowledge of timing/engagements/disengagements to a new player? I thought you were pessimistic about the player base's skill level mate, not optimistic lol
Oh i wasnt necesarily thinking about what are the top 5 easy heroes to win with, just what are good heroes to learn the game with. I dont think raynor is good for learning ranged dps like most ppl, he is very one note and gives bad habits. Greymane on the other hand gives you what raynor can give you and is also mainly easy for new players since a lot of gmanes do q build now; he doesnt need to do a lot of the things ppl were struggling with when he was first released plus his dmg output destroys new players who dont k ow what to expect or how to react. W/ gmane you learn good timings, variable builds, plus you are playing the "strongest" ranged carry
scoobs
Member
I understand where you're coming from, but at his skill level it simply doesn't matter that uther isn't a top tier hero, and he's every bit as useful at that level as malf would be.
Plus Uther is about to be super OP, so better learn him quick
I think if you are new to MOBAs then basic positioning is one of the most important skills to learn, and Raynor is good for that.
No offense Brian, but Greymane is an awful suggestion. He has a really hard to land skill shot, a mechanic that encourages over extending and feeling like no-ones business, and plays poorly without a support. Grey mane is a bad hero for a beginner to pick up.
No offense Brian, but Greymane is an awful suggestion. He has a really hard to land skill shot, a mechanic that encourages over extending and feeling like no-ones business, and plays poorly without a support. Grey mane is a bad hero for a beginner to pick up.
If you're trying to learn how the controls work raynor is good + you can get him for free which is a big plus. If you're trying to learn the ranged dmg archetype he's subpar with no way to unload on backline targets and low dmg on frontline targets until post-13. I dunno, it's fine to learn raynor instead, youd just get more out of learning a hero that can...do stuff?
In my brain gmane has a pretty flowcharty style that's effective to learn and is a very teachable hero since ranged dps in heroes is more about calculated risks than staying alive and pewing, like id say hes easier than valla who consistently has to improvise and weave in and out.
I guess in the end tho gmane is a bad suggestion just based off of the fact that he's expensive
Also no offense taken ofc, just a discussion after all
In my brain gmane has a pretty flowcharty style that's effective to learn and is a very teachable hero since ranged dps in heroes is more about calculated risks than staying alive and pewing, like id say hes easier than valla who consistently has to improvise and weave in and out.
I guess in the end tho gmane is a bad suggestion just based off of the fact that he's expensive
Also no offense taken ofc, just a discussion after all
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
could be worse the first hero I bought was Zeratul
Speaking of Greymane Quackniix wrote a short guide.
https://heroeshearth.com/builds/quackniix/gm-standard-build--indepth-on-talents--mindset/
Speaking of Greymane Quackniix wrote a short guide.
https://heroeshearth.com/builds/quackniix/gm-standard-build--indepth-on-talents--mindset/
A little bit of the pot calling the kettle black but a hero that stays alive deals more damage than a hero that dives and dies. Since Apathy doesn't have a lot of MOBA experience it's a lot to take in. I do agree that Greymane mechanically gives you a better top range and effective battlefield presence but the skill floor is way higher. That's like suggesting him playing Abathur to learn map awareness and soak when he probably doesn't even know aggro range of minions or what it even means.
Nice one about the guide from quack I'm going to read this later.
Nice one about the guide from quack I'm going to read this later.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's not very good. I copied it from his tweet but upon reading it's really just his preferred build and some sentences as to why on some particular talents.
His english is pretty spotty as well.
His english is pretty spotty as well.
His 13 talents are all good but honestly i feel like i cant give up running wild these days w/ all the warriors running around. The talent is great for luring their frontline a little too forward, diving the back, and then getting away scot free
@greymane being mechanically difficult, i really dont think he is, his human q splash is hard to miss (pretty much just goes in a straight line onto an unmoving minion 80% of the time) and his worgen q is hard to miss as well...everything else is point and click. I understand what everyone is saying tho since gmane has a reputation for being paper (his survivability is quite decent now imo since he q build is pretty much always viable. Worgen armor also actually lets you be super aggressive in skirmishes as well). Id say he's in between raynor and valla in terms of difficulty, but imo all the things he can teach are good and positive things and raynor will teach you bad habits.
Ranged w/ mobility is king if you want survivability but in this game you cant just use it as an escape like in other mobas, you often need to use it to go forward to hit priority targets. It's a bit more nuanced which is why i wouldnt suggest valla or falstad to a new player, but for gmane it's pretty much just laid out for the player. I agree that surviving is important for a squishy but it's like...strategic surviving? In the sense that you want to use mobility as a trade, you want to make them lose something for your investment. The reason it's important in this game is because kiting back and pewing tanks, despite what a lot of ppl say, is incredibly ineffective; outside of zuljin and tychus there is not much meaningful dmg being put down. It's not useless and definitely better than nothing, but in this situation you are being forced to play the enemy's game...and raynor pretty much has no choice but to play this way and his dmg isnt even great
But yea like i said, if you're just trying to learn the controls and get a feel for the game raynor or whatever ranged is free this week
@greymane being mechanically difficult, i really dont think he is, his human q splash is hard to miss (pretty much just goes in a straight line onto an unmoving minion 80% of the time) and his worgen q is hard to miss as well...everything else is point and click. I understand what everyone is saying tho since gmane has a reputation for being paper (his survivability is quite decent now imo since he q build is pretty much always viable. Worgen armor also actually lets you be super aggressive in skirmishes as well). Id say he's in between raynor and valla in terms of difficulty, but imo all the things he can teach are good and positive things and raynor will teach you bad habits.
Ranged w/ mobility is king if you want survivability but in this game you cant just use it as an escape like in other mobas, you often need to use it to go forward to hit priority targets. It's a bit more nuanced which is why i wouldnt suggest valla or falstad to a new player, but for gmane it's pretty much just laid out for the player. I agree that surviving is important for a squishy but it's like...strategic surviving? In the sense that you want to use mobility as a trade, you want to make them lose something for your investment. The reason it's important in this game is because kiting back and pewing tanks, despite what a lot of ppl say, is incredibly ineffective; outside of zuljin and tychus there is not much meaningful dmg being put down. It's not useless and definitely better than nothing, but in this situation you are being forced to play the enemy's game...and raynor pretty much has no choice but to play this way and his dmg isnt even great
But yea like i said, if you're just trying to learn the controls and get a feel for the game raynor or whatever ranged is free this week