Prophane33
Member
This is one of the most poignant comments on GAF, ever.
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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This is one of the most poignant comments on GAF, ever.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
I know I fucking didn't. I refuse to support bullshit practices like this, and as such, I only bought Dead Rising 3.
GT6 sitting there is more damning, but it really depends on how successful such design even is, or if they make a judgement call that they can have more long term success by AVOIDING that stuff or at least keeping it within a sane level.
It is possible Sony follows suit, but you compare what seems to be going on with their respective launch title exclusives and it doesn't look like Sony's really in a rush to do these sorts of things, I think only the free to play games have these kinds of microtransactions, and it's to be expected with them.
This is beyond just being an escalation of current anti-consumer practices. This is cartoon villain levels of diabolical.
dark_prinny
Banned
I feel sick.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
That's cool. You're a good man and I applaud you for doing that. No sarcasm.
NullPointer
Member
Top Gear UK should do an episode where the hosts see which is the best used car they can get for that price.
Would be more than fitting.
Honestly, this may sound horrible, but what else do you expect from Microsoft at this point? Of course the practice is not just exclusive to Microsoft, but other big publishers as well, they are trying to squeeze you for the most amount of revenue possible.
What better way than to introduce F2P mechanics into a game that you just spent around $600 in order to play.
One of the many reasons I am becoming disenfranchised with the AAA market at this point. I am not even the target demographic anymore, the majority of the games are catered towards the lowest common denominator.
What better way than to introduce F2P mechanics into a game that you just spent around $600 in order to play.
One of the many reasons I am becoming disenfranchised with the AAA market at this point. I am not even the target demographic anymore, the majority of the games are catered towards the lowest common denominator.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
QuicheFontaine
Member
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that's exactly how it works. The season pass just enables the cars to be purchased, either with in-game currency or tokens.
Edit: From this article:
"Every add-on car features a full Forzavista experience, Ekberg added, which means you can walk around the car, check out the interior, start up and rev the engine and learn about its history and performance statistics."
Yaaaay!
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-29-turn-10-outlines-forza-5-dlc-plan
It's really turning me away from that game. I wanted to buy it after finishing Ryse (which, on a similar note, is a ridiculously short game for a full price), but I don't want to support this business model.
Sure, we can interpret high real-money prices as an incentive to actually earn the cars in-game instead of buying them. However, since they made that in-game process more tedious as well, one cannot escape the impression that you either have to grind the same tracks like an idiot or pay a ridiculous amount of money, just to drive that Lotus one time - and that tediousness is methodological.
Either way, I don't like both trends. I don't want to spend shitloads of time or money, even though the game it self is good; which only makes it more frustrating.
If they really do mean they want those cares to be more and more exclusive then yeah, it actually does seem plausible especially since as an MP game they'd expect you to spend a lot of time playing online: 100 hours for an SP game that's not an RPG or strategy game sounds insane, but for an MP games? Some spent thousands on the likes of TF2, they could probably do the same here.
Sony implemented online passes themselves, though it's a bit disingenuous to say they adopted it when they may actually have been the first to use them, I think Sony always wanted some compensation for online access and had been trying different ways (some games had game specific subs in Japan on PS2) before finally settling on just going with the Plus paywall and dumped online passes afterwards. I guess that's the difference, Sony always seems to be trying to bargain and compromise with consumers, not acting out of the good of their hearts so much as trying to find a middle ground between getting money and keeping consumers happy, while Xbox as of late kind of seems like they're calculating how much they can squeeze from people period.
NullPointer
Member
They always have.
I'll say one thing about Shift - when you bought a DLC car it was completely yours to drive as of that moment. There was no second in-game currency paywall.
JordoftheDead
Member
I am glad to see a thread about this because I was telling my other half about it yesterday and she thought it was as wrong as I did.
I am loving the game and even though it's optional it sours it a little for me.
Even after paying for cars via DLC you are asked to still pay in game credits or tokens to be able to use them.
I am loving the game and even though it's optional it sours it a little for me.
Even after paying for cars via DLC you are asked to still pay in game credits or tokens to be able to use them.
So the lowest tokens/$ is the RECOMMENDED package? I refuse to believe this is a coincidence.
well guess what
I thought those prices were a confirmed mistake by Turn 10 and not the actual prices.
Partial Gamification
Banned
JetSetRadio
Banned
One of the things where they didn't pull a 180 because people wouldn't know about it pre launch I suppose.
lol regarding reviews, as always.
lol regarding reviews, as always.
i think you should include a link to this topic in your OP:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719935&highlight=
We need to have it in one topic, not dispersed in many so we could unite.
Also, you could put the list of having microtransactions just as a precatioun so more people get better informed:
These are upcoming/newly released.
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Bravely Default: Flying Fairy
Crimson Dragon
FIFA
Forza Motorsport 5
Gran Turismo 6
Grand Theft Auto V
Ryse: Son of Rome
NBA 2k games
Other:
Assassin's Creed 3
Battlefield 3
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dead Space 3
Diablo 3
Dragon's Dogma
Forza: Horizon
Forza Motorsport 4
Mass Effect 3
Shin Megami Tensei IV
A lot of people don't know about it, but if they would know, they'd gladly skip these games.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719935&highlight=
We need to have it in one topic, not dispersed in many so we could unite.
Also, you could put the list of having microtransactions just as a precatioun so more people get better informed:
These are upcoming/newly released.
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Bravely Default: Flying Fairy
Crimson Dragon
FIFA
Forza Motorsport 5
Gran Turismo 6
Grand Theft Auto V
Ryse: Son of Rome
NBA 2k games
Other:
Assassin's Creed 3
Battlefield 3
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dead Space 3
Diablo 3
Dragon's Dogma
Forza: Horizon
Forza Motorsport 4
Mass Effect 3
Shin Megami Tensei IV
A lot of people don't know about it, but if they would know, they'd gladly skip these games.
I bought the game and am happy I did. I don't plan on buying any micro transactions at all. Don't tell me what to do.
Online Pass was absolutely Sony's decision for PS3 first party games. I skipped many a game due to that. They are getting rid of them because you have to pay for PS+ and online play now with the PS4.
If I had to guess, I'd say this isn't up to the developer.
I don't care if they sell some super sports car for some stupid price. Unless the game is broken because of micro transactions I don't begrudge companies for making some side money. I don't buy micro transactions (except some dragon story gold twice) so I can enjoy the game and not reward them for micro transactions.
Jeez. I haven't played anything past Forza 1 for more than an hour or so, so I wasn't aware of how their dlc worked, but if that's true, that's really disconcerting. I feel like some kids out there are going to blow up their parents bank accounts with this shit.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Fair enough, I still consider PS+ to be an extreme value and something I would have regardless.
yeah, thats totally fine for. its the kind of F2P where basic content is paid for but theres no piecemeal progression encouraging XP boosts and token purchases. You try the game with limited content for free. for 20 bucks you get all the characters. theres no grind, no incentive to skip tedious gameplay by paying money.
Stuff Like the PS+ version of Driveclub and Killer Instinct arent in the same league as the Forza and cCrimson Dragon monetization schemes.
puffyshirt
Banned
True, but the problem then arises that your game feels unfairly cheap, difficult, or incomplete.
So then the only way to fix it would be to not buy the game at all. Which is also unfair to ask, because it wasn't really fully explained beforehand the extent of this microtransaction crap. A lot of gamers were interested in and were swayed to an Xbox One for Forza, so to just say "well don't play the game then" is a bit unfair.
Marauder Shields
Member
Am I missing something? If you can grind to get the required tokens then what's the problem?
I am with you on that. I don't think it is ultimately a big deal, but still, paying for online kinda sucks.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
It's really hard to do it, because I loved Forza 3/4/Horizon, but they've flown too close to the sun this time.
That the game has already been reduced in its number of cars, tracks and modes. The grind is more tedious, which makes the alternative even more "convenient".
I don't feel like my game feels unfairly cheap, difficult, or incomplete.
If I want a premium car, I'll play the game enough to earn the money to buy it. It gives me a reason to keep playing the game.
My guess because I'm with you is that people then say that they inflate the grind so it is unfair. Which I understand also but if I can put time in and get something I don't care if people with the means waste their money to not do what it takes to get it.
Its always been like this in Forza with DLC cars. Its a bit of a contentious issue even among Forza fans, but not one I ever had too much of a problem with.
You pay $60 for the game, does that mean you are automatically entitled to all the content in the game right from the beginning? This was around before car tokens were ever implemented and had nothing to do with them being greedy, just to be clear.
Stealthcobra
Member
Your skipping was stupid.. If u buy the game the pass is included. If you're buying used then thats your decision.
NullPointer
Member
But thats completely a coincidence!
Did you know that online passes expire?
I bought a NEW copy of Resistance 3 earlier this year and had to pay full price for that online pass on PSN to unlock the online co-op.
Yeah, I felt like a dumbass and I would advise other people to stay away from such games lest we all see more of it.
UnluckyKate
Member
Disgusting ... Wow I m at a loss for words
thesuperfunk
Member
This is just shameful.
Well, I think some of us want to weigh the actual effect it has on game design and what the nature of the micro transactions is, as that's important to keep in mind. Shin Megami Tensei IV is not equivalent to Real Racing 3, and it doesn't even let you directly buy money/EXP or whatever so much as buy grinding maps that also throw in new demons to fuse (though they seem to just be recolors.) SMTIV's absolutely playable and beatable without resorting to that stuff, and it may even be detrimental for leveling as you'd stop getting good demon suggestions for fusing if they're all way underleveled. Bravely Default looks like it's a foreshadowing of what's to come, but it's some super attack stuff you can just ignore (though I'm hoping they don't constantly advertise it in your face...)
It's good to get both a list of games that have them and HOW they're implemented, doubly so if we can look at the online stores of the platform to see the content. Incidentally, uhhh, does Microsoft not let you look at DLC on their website now? Maybe I'm missing something, but it's looking entirely possible that the one thing Microsoft nailed that Sony took forever to catch up on (a website to buy digital content) is now an area where they fell behind, if they aren't being outright shady and trying to keep people from seeing this sort of stuff before they get the system and the games.
Game designed so it takes an absurd ammount of time to get the tokens you need to buy cars.
puffyshirt
Banned
The problem is that they took away previous progression reward systems (such as getting a car for winning tournaments, etc) and replaced them with this one. But this one makes getting new content take wayyyyy longer UNLESS you pay money and fast track.
It's like if Call of Duty took away unlocking perks through leveling up, and made it instead through tokens earned by getting kills. Except the amount of tokens it takes means you need to get like a thousand kills before you unlock the next perk, or something extravagant like that. Or, of course, you could just pay money for tokens.
Sure you don't have to buy tokens, but Forza 5 have put new systems in place that will heavily draw out your progression if you dont. It's the exact definition of a Free 2 Play model.
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