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Crumpo · Oct 20, 2017

So how do people propose this can be solved? It's a big issue and stretches even beyond US culture.

Are we doomed to fight pitched battles with individuals, or corporations, one-by-one until people are afraid to fall to the angry internet mob?

It's really not a great strategy, but with nothing else happening I can see why it's appealing to get the pitchforks out.

Aguero9320 · Oct 20, 2017

Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

MysteryQuesadilla · Oct 20, 2017

Some of these replies asking for receipts are gross.

Megalo · Oct 20, 2017

The number of people throwing all of the 250+ (IIRC) people working at ND under the bus is freightening. Do you really think it would help to just put everyone in the same bag ?

In companies this huge you will find some bad apples, it's sadly bound to happen.
They have to investigate, find who these individuals are and act accordingly.

Gestault · Oct 20, 2017

How was I supposed to know if I said that to a reporter they might report it?!?

Weltall Zero · Oct 20, 2017

DAREALGUMMY said:
and people wonder why victims don't just speak up when things like this happen to them. I haven't read the entire thread but please tell me someone at least hasn't questioned what she might have been wearing at the time.

I'm waiting for someone to question the length of her skirt and cleavage so I can complete the bingo card, myself.

Bronetta · Oct 20, 2017

Peltz said:
Horrendous joke and it's totally unprofessional, offensive, and indefensible. But technically, I would not classify this as the tort of "harassment" in the legal sense.

Still, this DOES speak to the level of professionalism of the organization as a whole. Make no mistake: Any employee who talks to a reporter does represent the WHOLE organization no matter what they say.

And no one should be defending Naughty Dog by saying "the actions of a few bad apples yada yada." It's their duty to ensure that professionalism is upheld by each of its employees. Again, allowing something like this to happen (if it did indeed happen) would be a failure of the organization, and not just the individual.

If its not harassment then what is it?

Crumpo said:
So how do people propose this can be solved? It's a big issue and stretches even beyond US culture.

Are we doomed to fight pitched battles with individuals, or corporations, one-by-one until people are afraid to fall to the angry internet mob?

It's really not a great strategy, but with nothing else happening I can see why it's appealing to get the pitchforks out.

It'll stop when these cockroaches know they'll get exposed and have their livelihoods affected.

Hari Seldon · Oct 20, 2017

What the fuck is wrong with the entertainment industry and west coast tech culture in general that people don't fucking act professionally like AT ALL.

brian! · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

It's because not being wussy, or whatever the fuck, has never paid out for particular ppl ever

Theslammer · Oct 20, 2017

Peltz said:
Horrendous joke and it's totally unprofessional, offensive, and indefensible. But technically, I would not classify this as the tort of "harassment" in the legal sense.

Still, this DOES speak to the level of professionalism of the organization as a whole. Make no mistake: Any employee who talks to a reporter does represent the WHOLE organization no matter what they say.

If the company gave them said person as an interview, then yeah, they're the unofficial representative unless they're actually the spokesperson, in which case they're officially representing them. If it was an inappropriate comment made outside of work because the two happened to meet and she introduced herself as a reporter, he doesn't 'represent' the company. He's simply a guy who works in the company who also doesn't know how to speak to people.

NightStalkerCB · Oct 20, 2017

Serious question, as i've never watched House of Cards before. Is the Dev saying the work Fuck, in the literal sense, or fuck as in a reporter fucking them over? Is there someone on the show who literally fucks everyone or someone who is always fucking over their sources (confidentiality maybe)?

Either way, ND needs to investigate and correct this issue. It amazes me how some people act.

Peltz · Oct 20, 2017

Crumpo said:
So how do people propose this can be solved? It's a big issue and stretches even beyond US culture.

Are we doomed to fight pitched battles with individuals, or corporations, one-by-one until people are afraid to fall to the angry internet mob?

It's really not a great strategy, but with nothing else happening I can see why it's appealing to get the pitchforks out.

You cannot "solve" this. The only thing you can do is take every appropriate measure to mitigate it. That means firing someone who does something like this and compensating the individual harmed. And having a ton of HR procedures and safeguards in check to ensure something like this is taken very seriously when it does arise.

Not having a culture of silence is the closest you can come to "solving" something like this.

Theslammer said:
If the company gave them said person as an interview, then yeah, they're the unofficial representative unless they're actually the spokesperson, in which case they're officially representing them. If it was an inappropriate comment made outside of work because the two happened to meet and she introduced herself as a reporter, he doesn't 'represent' the company. He's simply a guy who works in the company who also doesn't know how to speak to people.

I agree. I may have misread, but I thought the comment was said before an interview started.

Resident_UA · Oct 20, 2017

I really don't get what's the downside of calling out that person by name... I mean ND will be able to figure this out, that person will know, and if they get fired the next potential employer will be able to figure it out. What's the big secret?

Tajaz2426 · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

I think its a tough road of what is exceptable. My personal feeling is Im huge hypocrite as I am upset about this, but I listen to an enjoy rap music and a lot of songs demean women calling them bitches and hoes.

So, I dont really know what to think and how to feel about things until I can set down and evaluate how messed up I am to allow one and not the other just because I prefer it.

As a culture, I think we are setting ourselves up for a weird future of all PC culture.

Edit: sorry for the language.

Kinyou · Oct 20, 2017

VibratingDonkey said:
So what is ND actually doing about this?
All I'm aware of is that they released that clinical, dismissive statement regarding the other sexual harassment case, that made no indication of them doing anything at all.

Some say it's unfair to boycott their games/punish the whole company for the actions of a few. Well if the company's not doing anything about the few, it seems fair to me.

How would they go about investigating this without knowing time, place, name or even if this happened on company time or not.

Weltall Zero · Oct 20, 2017

Megalo said:
The number of people throwing all of the 250+ (IIRC) people working at ND under the bus is freightening. Do you really think it would help to just put everyone in the same bag ?

In companies this huge you will find some bad apples, it's sadly bound to happen.
They have to investigate, find who these individuals are and act accordingly.

So, again...

Weltall Zero said:
Is #notallofnaughtydog the new #notallmen?

Mahonay · Oct 20, 2017

Crumpo said:
So how do people propose this can be solved? It's a big issue and stretches even beyond US culture.

Are we doomed to fight pitched battles with individuals, or corporations, one-by-one until people are afraid to fall to the angry internet mob?

It's really not a great strategy, but with nothing else happening I can see why it's appealing to get the pitchforks out.

I'm a man and I don't trust other men in power to do the right thing. So fuck these creeps, pitchforks are going to keep coming and deservedly so. Names need to be dragged through the dirt until people learn. They need to be stood up to if no one else will.

brian! · Oct 20, 2017

Kinyou said:
How would they go about investigating this without knowing time, place, name or even if this happened on company time or not.

By finding out the time, place, name, or if this happened on company time (completely irrelevant btw)

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Oct 20, 2017

Peltz said:
Still, this DOES speak to the level of professionalism of the organization as a whole. Make no mistake: Any employee who talks to a reporter does represent the WHOLE organization no matter what they say.

How do we know if this was in a formal setting or not?

If it was at night at a bar, would the words of a person who speaks to a reporter still represent the organization they work for?... I'm gonna say a clear no.

On the other hand, since the tweet provides no context on the setting we can't really say either way.

Resident_UA · Oct 20, 2017

Kinyou said:
How would they go about investigating this without knowing time, place, name or even if this happened on company time or not.

I mean the implication is that it happened on company time. If not it would not be relevant. It should be relatively easy to figure this out.

Luke_Wal · Oct 20, 2017

Theslammer said:
If the company gave them said person as an interview, then yeah, they're the unofficial representative unless they're actually the spokesperson, in which case they're officially representing them. If it was an inappropriate comment made outside of work because the two happened to meet and she introduced herself as a reporter, he doesn't 'represent' the company. He's simply a guy who works in the company who also doesn't know how to speak to people.

There's a reporter in season 1 who sleeps with the main character (a Senator) in order to get information about legislation to report on it and advance her career. That's what this awful statement is referring to.

Naughty Dog needs to issue some sort of statement and say they're ACTUALLY investigating this rather than the BS they put out for Ballard's situation.

Theslammer · Oct 20, 2017

Peltz said:
I agree. I may have misread, but I thought the comment was said before an interview started.

If it was, then yep, that's different, but from the Tweet, it's hard to tell. It sounded like they bumped into each other somewhere and she introduced herself as a reporter.

CaviarMeths · Oct 20, 2017

Megalo said:
The number of people throwing all of the 250+ (IIRC) people working at ND under the bus is freightening. Do you really think it would help to just put everyone in the same bag ?

In companies this huge you will find some bad apples, it's sadly bound to happen.
They have to investigate, find who these individuals are and act accordingly.

That number is zero. Literally nobody in this thread, or anywhere else frankly, is calling for action against all of the employees. People are calling for the company to be accountable for the actions of their employees. What's frightening is that several posters in this thread can't tell the difference.

krazen · Oct 20, 2017

DAREALGUMMY said:
and people wonder why victims don't just speak up when things like this happen to them. I haven't read the entire thread but please tell me someone at least hasn't questioned what she might have been wearing at the time.

Not there yet, weve cruised past the Co-workers joke all the time drive thru (even tho she wasnt a coworker), and are currently hanging in Please dont hurt Naughty Dog cause i like their games! blvd.

Although to your point, its kinda sad but I assume on her end the death threats and posting old social media pics trying to paint her as having deseved it, Look at the whore! Shes wearing shorts to the beach! has begun...revictimizing her.

But i guess we gamers won because the reputation of hobby is saved! Somehow?

Wildo09 · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

That's not a bad joke, it's an offensive joke.

brian! · Oct 20, 2017

Resident_UA said:
I mean the implication is that it happened on company time. If not it would not be relevant. It should be relatively easy to figure this out.

I dont know where this idea comes from. If someone enjoys posting some nazi shit on their facebook and the corp. finds out they are getting fired

bigpumbaa · Oct 20, 2017

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
:-O

...or... it could simply be that this one asshole made a comment to a reporter outside of work hours on his own time.

Without any more context other than that given in the OP, you'll have to excuse me for being hesitant to want tar and feather and entire 600 person studio for the actions of one shitty person.

It's entirely possible (and extremely likely) that these shitty individuals perpetrate this shit at venues and settings away from work, where they think they'll get away with it; whereas the workplaces they work at don't tolerate this kind of behavior and try to put policies in place to protect women and men from this shit at work.

It's a little naive to think that companies can see and know every little thing about what their employees do and saw 24/7. And even if they could, I would hope that a sensible society would legislate against such powers being exploited by corporations, for the sake of the personal privacy of employees.

Agree.

Not saying all 600 people are sexual harassers or enablers.

Am saying that talking to press as a game dev is a professional conversation.

Am saying that professional expectations and grooming are set at the corporate level.

Am saying that we live in a misogynist, sexist society/context that 9/10 means organizations are at LEAST complicit.

One "sexual harasser" doesn't usually come out of nowhere. That's Naivety.

Alucrid · Oct 20, 2017

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
How do we know if this was in a formal setting or not?

If it was at night at a bar, would the words of a person who speaks to a reporter still represent the organization they work for?... I'm gonna say a clear no.

On the other hand, since the tweet provides no context on the setting we can't really say either way.

yes? if someone posts racist shit on their twitter but in their bio it says "tweets are my own" do you think that protects them from being representative of their company?

Bill R Boggess · Oct 20, 2017

wesleyshark said:
Smh. Why would she make this up?!

No reason at all.

In fact, she could be harming her career by speaking out.

It does seem like it might have been a "joke" but damn, how vulgarly inappropriate.

Also not even remotely funny.

Theslammer · Oct 20, 2017

Luke_Wal said:
There's a reporter in season 1 who sleeps with the main character (a Senator) in order to get information about legislation to report on it and advance her career. That's what this awful statement is referring to.

Naughty Dog needs to issue some sort of statement and say they're ACTUALLY investigating this rather than the BS they put out for Ballard's situation.

I'm not following your first paragraph. For the second, it's very possible, especially after Kotaku's reporting on Ballard, that there was not much to investigate. And if so, they did the appropriate thing in not trying to tarnish him even more than he allegedly did within the company.

UltimateUnknown · Oct 20, 2017

It seems as though certain people at Naughty Dog are being naughty dogs.

Weltall Zero · Oct 20, 2017

Kinyou said:
How would they go about investigating this without knowing time, place, name or even if this happened on company time or not.

Well, they could get in contact with her. Crazy thought, I know.

NightStalkerCB said:
Serious question, as i've never watched House of Cards before. Is the Dev saying the work Fuck, in the literal sense, or fuck as in a reporter fucking them over? Is there someone on the show who literally fucks everyone or someone who is always fucking over their sources (confidentiality maybe)?

Either way, ND needs to investigate and correct this issue. It amazes me how some people act.

The entire starting premise of the show is that a young female reporter starts a sexual relationshio with a politician in exchange for inside information.

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

I'd say it was nice knowing you, but I doubt anyone would believe that.

atr0cious · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

This trash comment represents the toxic masculinity that enables rape culture. They're explicitly talking about men's collective reaction to this, since women are already hushed into silence. He's upset men are taking a stand against the old way of doing things.

Please keep pissing this poster off.

Mahonay · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

lHXWok2MQk66MDCPdFCM_Whose%20Line%20Is%20It.gif

krazen · Oct 20, 2017

Tajaz2426 said:
I think its a tough road of what is exceptable. My personal feeling is Im huge hypocrite as I am upset about this, but I listen to an enjoy rap music and a lot of songs demean women calling them bitches and hoes.

So, I dont really know what to think and how to feel about things until I can set down and evaluate how messed up I am to allow one and not the other just because I prefer it.

As a culture, I think we are setting ourselves up for a weird future of all PC culture.

Edit: sorry for the language.

Theres a thousand wide gulf between consuming un un PC material and sexually harassing someone. Like you can watch porn on your own time and somehow find the strength to not walk up to a co-worker and ask her if you can jizz on her tits.

funkystudent · Oct 20, 2017

Without a name I'm not sure what anyone expects ND to do here.

CC everyone. "Hey guys, ever say anything stupid to s reporter?"

MagnaderAlpha · Oct 20, 2017

Knew this would happen, particularly the responses that victim blame. Though we were going to see it first in Hollywood when other "big names" start getting leaked other than Harvey and fans of their work start complaining about how "Yeah, they did some bad things.... but... we can forgive them as long as they give us good movies and do stellar performances!!!", but given this is gamer culture, it don't surprise me fanboys trying to white knight a "company" because they feel threatened that these allegations might, in some way, hurt the production and release of "games they enjoy". Y'know, FUCK these gamers. The well being, fair-treatment of people, especially victims SHOULD ALWAYS be more important than the protection of those that abuse their powers to exploit and harass others, even if those people are responsible for products of that bring entertainment and enjoyment to people.

I've always said, whatever happens and how deep this whole situation goes, I don't care if it is rooted out completely, and if that leads to a lot of visionaries in the industry to fall, hey, so fuckin' be it. No more of this sick "pay your dues" mentality. Some people in these industries consider it to be a "rite of passage"/"I had to deal with it, now you do too!". No more of this sacrificing to the machine, it's time to throw a wrench in there, scrap the fuckin' machine and get a newer model. A cleaner one that doesn't run on blood and innocence.

Jaguar Victory · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

Soliciting for sex is not a bad joke. It's soliciting for sex. The guy was fishing.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Oct 20, 2017

Weltall Zero said:
So, again...

Countering unhelpful generalizations with a clarification that the entire group should not be blamed for the actions of the individual isn't a non-sequitur or deflection in this case. I see it more as an appeal for level-headedness in the discussion.

We can quite easily discuss the utter abhorrent behavior of this one individual and the need for action, without painting his entire studio of 300-400 innocent work colleagues with the same brush. The latter neither helps the discussion, the person suffering the harassment nor does it bring us any closer to identifying who this particular culprit is.

RPGamer92 · Oct 20, 2017

Aguero9320 said:
Was a stupid thing to say, but man, the world has gone wussy when a bad joke can cause this much fuss...

Shares in pitchfork manufacturers must be through the fucking roof lol

Youll last long...

brian! · Oct 20, 2017

MagnaderAlpha said:
Knew this would happen, particularly the responses that victim blame. Though we were going to see it first in Hollywood when other "big names" start getting leaked other than Harvey and fans of their work start complaining about how "Yeah, they did some bad things.... but... we can forgive them as long as they give us good movies and do stellar performances!!!", but given this is gamer culture, it don't surprise me fanboys trying to white knight a "company" because they feel threatened that these allegations might, in some way, hurt the production and release of "games they enjoy". Y'know, FUCK these gamers. The well being, fair-treatment of people, especially victims SHOULD ALWAYS be more important than the protection of those that abuse their powers to exploit and harass others, even if those people are responsible for products of that bring entertainment and enjoyment to people.

I've always said, whatever happens and how deep this whole situation goes, I don't care if it is rooted out completely, and if that leads to a lot of visionaries in the industry to fall, hey, so fuckin' be it. No more of this sick "pay your dues" mentality. Some people in these industries consider it to be a "rite of passage"/"I had to deal with it, now you do too!". No more of this sacrificing to the machine, it's time to throw a wrench in there, scrap the fuckin' machine and get a newer model. A cleaner one that doesn't run on blood and innocence.

"Burn it down" is very compelling to me

krazen · Oct 20, 2017

funkystudent said:
Without a name I'm not sure what anyone expects ND to do here.

CC everyone. "Hey guys, ever say anything stupid to s reporter?"

Contact her, get a name/date/time.
Contact him get his side
Contact co workers, find out if hes done something like this in the past (which if true is likely)

The whole defeatism is part of the problem imho.

rakkadakka · Oct 20, 2017

Crumpo said:
It's really not a great strategy, but with nothing else happening I can see why it's appealing to get the pitchforks out.

It's appealing but ultimately the court of public opinion gets things wrong more than it gets right.

Especially when it gets as nasty as an internet hate mob.

Alucrid · Oct 20, 2017

funkystudent said:
Without a name I'm not sure what anyone expects ND to do here.

CC everyone. "Hey guys, ever say anything stupid to s reporter?"

yeah i guess talking about these issues that likely pervade the industry is a bad thing

Theslammer · Oct 20, 2017

funkystudent said:
Without a name I'm not sure what anyone expects ND to do here.

CC everyone. "Hey guys, ever say anything stupid to s reporter?"

They could contact her and find out who it was and how long ago it was, and/or issue a company-wide email reiterating their expectations and what's not allowed. And while I think any employee doesn't technically represent an entire company, perception is key, so if an email is sent, I wouldn't be surprised if it did say, "Even outside of work, you represent Naughty Dog."

Ralemont · Oct 20, 2017

She has way more to lose than gain by saying this. I believe her.

Weltall Zero · Oct 20, 2017

funkystudent said:
Without a name I'm not sure what anyone expects ND to do here.

CC everyone. "Hey guys, ever say anything stupid to s reporter?"

If only the person who was harassed was still alive and in posession of any kind of means of communication, so they could somehow get in contact with her and ask her...

bigpumbaa · Oct 20, 2017

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Countering unhelpful generalizations with a clarification that the entire group should not be blamed for the actions of the individual isn't a non-sequitur or deflection in this case. I see it more as an appeal for level-headedness in the discussion.

We can quite easily discuss the utter abhorrent behavior of this one individual and the need for action, without painting his entire studio of 300-400 innocent work colleagues with the same brush. The latter neither helps the discussion, the person suffering the harassment nor does it bring us any closer to identifying who this particular culprit is.

Sure, but we're talking about leadership and HR and CULTURE. Not all 400 people.

Tajaz2426 · Oct 20, 2017

krazen said:
Theres a thousand wide gulf between consuming un un PC material and sexually harassing someone. Like you can watch porn on your own time and somehow find the strength to not walk up to a co-worker and ask her if you can jizz on her tits.

The is no room between what is acceptable and what isnt when it objectifies or degrades someone. Whether or not something is worse than the other doesnt matter.

Instead of belittling and harassing a single person it degrades a whole sex. Hence why I am a hypocrite if I dont speak out on something that I like and not on this.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Oct 20, 2017

Alucrid said:
yes? if someone posts racist shit on their twitter but in their bio it says "tweets are my own" do you think that protects them from being representative of their company?

I'm sorry, did I miss where the asshole referred to in Megan's tweet actually made this comment in a public forum like twitter?

From the tweet in the OP, it seems more like this comment was made in a one-on-one setting (which is where most sexual harassment normally occurs).

I think your logic failed hard with that analogy, Alucrid.

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