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Deus Ex: Mankind Divided |OT| We Asked For This

B

broncobuster

Banned
I believe it's fairer to say the critical path, cut scene story has its problems. If you spend the time to read emails, talk with NPCs, and explore Prague it's...alright. And I think his opening points on the gameplay are off-base, if not outright incorrect.
 
W

Window

Member
I also remember NPCs making comments like "Guess you won't be thrown out of here any time soon" near your apartment. That doesn't change the fact that the Jensen's depiction is thematically muddled. Yes the game acknowledges the player is in a comparatively privileged position but at the same time attempts to remind them that Jensen still faces discrimination via the times when you take the wrong compartment in the metro. As for dehumanising Aug enemies, well such a game dehumanises pretty much all enemies. You don't even get to see the cops' faces. I think the game did a fine job depicting the trials faced by Aug citizens and humanised them fairly well (in side quests as mentioned).
 
N

Nessus

Member
justjim89 said:
Errant Signal is out for the game, he's pretty critical of it.

I had a great time with the game, but he's right on pretty much every count here, especially with how the game betrays it's own themes in service of always being a cool action dude. The cops never really hassle you. You never experience a downside to your augmentations, even when crazy brand new ones are found hidden inside you. You go to Golem City for a brief visit while others have to stay, including an NPC you may unwittingly send there. The final boss and a lot of the augmented villains look like barely human monsters, while you have cool shades augmented into your face to always look sweet. Augmented people on the streets are going through hell trying to get Neuropozyne while you magically don't have to use it. The most sacrificing you have to do is turning off augmentations you don't plan on using so you can use your new cool ones, and even that is undone by the end of the game.

For all his moping, Jensen has it pretty damn good.
Click to expand...

Agree with most of what he says, except the part about Bioshock being a better immersive sim than the recent Deus Ex games.

I really enjoyed Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite, but they were both fairly shallow and linear compared to the sandbox that is modern Deus Ex.

But yeah, if the game would have focused more on Jensen's unexamined privilege that could have been a really cool angle. Like, if all his advantages spurred more than a couple of throwaway lines from NPCs, if it made the people he's trying to help grow to hate him, if it really made it feel like he's trying to straddle two different worlds, perhaps with an even greater focus of the government cynically exploiting his gifts while vilifying his kind, and so on.

Like, if all his advantages were suddenly stripped away from him at some point, like if the game could make you genuinely dread those "papers please" scenes, and make you scared to get on the wrong train (I fully realize that sort of thing can be very hard to pull off without making the game frustrating for players, it would require careful balance).
 
A

Acinixys

Member
So fuck this game

I started a NG+ and was about to go to investigate the train bombing

I had a shitload if weapons and items, plus every aug except the experimental ones unlocked

Then my game crashed, and when I reloaded my latest save i had no augs unlocked and only an unmodded 10mm in my inventory

So fuck that. Im not playing through the entire game again without all my shit

Bleh. Such a bummer
 
S

Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
justjim89 said:
Errant Signal is out for the game, he's pretty critical of it.
Click to expand...

Overly critical in parts, I'd say.

For example, his point about how Jensen is a special cool dude who stands out from all other Augmented people and gets special treatment? That's true and well reasoned. But saying MD is a vapid game "about nothing, by design", because it doesn't outright tell us how we should feel about the themes it presents?

Surely that's the absolute best way to approach serious issues in a work of entertainment? Present them, put us in the world and show us what the world is like, then let us decide how we feel about it all.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Just beat it. What the fuck at that ending. It just...ends. It's very clearly the second game in a trilogy that will likely never be completed.

Gameplay was awesome, though, and I had a ton of fun actually playing it, but everything else was mediocre. I really didn't like how there were a ton of choices but they meant nothing. Nothing comes back to bite you later. Just maybe a few extra dialogue lines.

Anyway, it was okay. I have no idea why there is no in game stat menu with stuff like enemies killed, alarms set off, etc.
 
H

Hellwarden

Member
Steve.1981 said:
Overly critical in parts, I'd say.

For example, his point about how Jensen is a special cool dude who stands out from all other Augmented people and gets special treatment? That's true and well reasoned. But saying MD is a vapid game "about nothing, by design", because it doesn't outright tell us how we should feel about the themes it presents?

Surely that's the absolute best way to approach serious issues in a work of entertainment? Present them, put us in the world and show us what the world is like, then let us decide how we feel about it all.
Click to expand...

The problem is I don't think MD presents it in any meaningful way.

MD doesn't just present various historical images of oppression, it outright plasters the wall top to bottom with various cultural images associated with oppression. Park benches, different sections for augs, being refused service, the augs/all lives matter posters, the use of the word clank, the cops harassing you for your id, the aug ghetto. It has all of this in its immediate world, but none of it feels earned, because none of it impacts Jensen in the least. Jensen sleepwalks through this plot, and I don't blame him, because the oppression of augs isn't touching him at all. (I would think logically with him being a goddamn super soldier, the power that be would come down harder on him.) Even one of the scenes of a cop stopping Jensen has a joke about you the player being a goddamn super soldier. Jensen, and by extension the player is above it all. Just like Jensen, I just didn't care that much about this world, or the people in it. The world of MD was a playground first, with some uncomfortable racial imagery way in the background.
 
S

sora87

Member
So this samizdat side quest is bullshit for my play style, I can't get anywhere even when being far more stealthy than usual, there's just too much shit everywhere
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Hellwarden said:
The problem is I don't think MD presents it in any meaningful way.

MD doesn't just present various historical images of oppression, it outright plasters the wall top to bottom with various cultural images associated with oppression. Park benches, different sections for augs, being refused service, the augs/all lives matter posters, the use of the word clank, the cops harassing you for your id, the aug ghetto. It has all of this in its immediate world, but none of it feels earned, because none of it impacts Jensen in the least. Jensen sleepwalks through this plot, and I don't blame him, because the oppression of augs isn't touching him at all. (I would think logically with him being a goddamn super soldier, the power that be would come down harder on him.) Even one of the scenes of a cop stopping Jensen has a joke about you the player being a goddamn super soldier. Jensen, and by extension the player is above it all. Just like Jensen, I just didn't care that much about this world, or the people in it. The world of MD was a playground first, with some uncomfortable racial imagery way in the background.
Click to expand...

That's what we've talked about at times in this thread. Even though Jensen has at this point been through numerous events that should be trauma-inducing and has had several moments that verge dangerously close to making him (gasp) nuanced, nothing is allowed to come of them. He's mopey and cynical because that's just the way the main character should be to look "cool." I think the message that "discrimination is bad" is pretty fucking clear, but people give it shit for not outright stating it? The game is already blunt enough about its themes of racism. The problem is that there's no reason for the player to relate to it because Jensen isn't allowed to give a damn.
 
D

demosthenes

Member
I didn't understand it at first playing, I would get off the train and run up the right side of the stairs and I would got stopped nearly every single time for my "papers". It was such a dumb design flaw until I noticed I was running up the natural side and not the aug side. Or when I accidentally took the human subway cars instead of the aug one, same thing.
 
M

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Just upgraded my PC and want to test it out in Prague, but don't have a save there and don't feel like playing the intro section on NG to get there.

Does Jensen's Stories DLC eventually drop you off in Prague? If so, I'll play through that.
 
A

Acinixys

Member
sora87 said:
So this samizdat side quest is bullshit for my play style, I can't get anywhere even when being far more stealthy than usual, there's just too much shit everywhere
Click to expand...

Are you in
the bank
?

I managed it without killing anyone but I did have to shoot up a few cameras. You have to be extremely patient and learn the guards patrol routes to do it safely
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
sora87 said:
So this samizdat side quest is bullshit for my play style, I can't get anywhere even when being far more stealthy than usual, there's just too much shit everywhere
Click to expand...

Not sure what your playstyle is, but I play all stealth, no kills, no alarms, and its a very easy side quest.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
Haven't quite finished the game yet, but it's frustrating. One of the overriding problems with all the earlier games was the disconnect between the scope of the world that's talked about and the paucity of the world that's shown/interacted with and MD is unfortunately no different in this regard either.

If you're going to set a game in a City it has to actually feel like a City, and not simply be a half dozen streets strung together and passed off as districts, full of cars and vans everywhere that no one drives and people who don't go anywhere.

Sure I doubt the game had anywhere near the budget of GTA V, but Ubisoft managed a decent stab at Chicago, and I'd of thought that MDs budget was comparable to that at least.

Also, the lack of a dynamic day/night cycle, versus a dictated one.....
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
Kadayi said:
Haven't quite finished the game yet, but it's frustrating. One of the overriding problems with all the earlier games was the disconnect between the scope of the world that's talked about and the paucity of the world that's shown/interacted with and MD is unfortunately no different in this regard either.

If you're going to set a game in a City it has to actually feel like a City, and not simply be a half dozen streets strung together and passed off as districts, full of cars and vans everywhere that no one drives and people who don't go anywhere.

Sure I doubt the game had anywhere near the budget of GTA V, but Ubisoft managed a decent stab at Chicago, and I'd of thought that MDs budget was comparable to that at least.

Also, the lack of a dynamic day/night cycle, versus a dictated one.....
Click to expand...

I mean, the events of this game are clearly meant to take place over a single day.

Deus Ex and "immersive sims" are meant to be smaller dense areas full of stuff to explore in individual buildings and places, not more realistically sized open world cities where you drive cars all over the place.
 
A

Acinixys

Member
The games biggest issue is that it expects you to be a good, peaceful person and not a vicious rogue agent

Im doing a murder everything play-through now that Ive finished the game and fixed my NG+ save so i have all my shit back

1A07EBE0A6D77B071DEFD4EB4594024AEC023DA6
Click to expand...

This took me 2 minutes to accomplish

After the panic meter ran down both citizens and cops walked past like nothing was wrong

Pretty poor AI

However, I do like the fact that when you kill a shopkeeper the cops put tape over the door and a guard outside.
 
S

sora87

Member
Acinixys said:
Are you in
the bank
?

I managed it without killing anyone but I did have to shoot up a few cameras. You have to be extremely patient and learn the guards patrol routes to do it safely
Click to expand...

Pagusas said:
Not sure what your playstyle is, but I play all stealth, no kills, no alarms, and its a very easy side quest.
Click to expand...

Tried that a few times but didn't happen, so I just went in guns blazing and managed to get it done in the end haha
 
S

SlickVic

Member
Anyone know the name of the movie that you can start playing
on the projector in the Divali theater?
Is it D.O.A? I wasn't patient enough to check, but did they put the whole movie in there? Reminds me of The Darkness having To Kill A Mockingbird.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
That's what we've talked about at times in this thread. Even though Jensen has at this point been through numerous events that should be trauma-inducing and has had several moments that verge dangerously close to making him (gasp) nuanced, nothing is allowed to come of them. He's mopey and cynical because that's just the way the main character should be to look "cool." I think the message that "discrimination is bad" is pretty fucking clear, but people give it shit for not outright stating it? The game is already blunt enough about its themes of racism. The problem is that there's no reason for the player to relate to it because Jensen isn't allowed to give a damn.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately Jensen is still "I never asked for this" that we all know and love.

It's the weakest when Jensen gets to make the points about escalation of violence, complexity of issues, and such because although he states the issues it doesn't seem that he really has a stake in it.

Jensen says "Don't you realize I'm an Aug too?" at one point but it's like sure, you're an Aug who has the opportunity and trust of being the only Aug on an anti-terrorist Aug fighting organization and you can do things most other Augs can't, like turn invisible and jump off rooftops without fear.
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
Mesharey said:
Too bad the game isn't selling well, it's really a great game, will get the DLC once it's available, hopefully it's good it.
Click to expand...

I'm excited about the DLC (which is weird to type), but after this game, I went in the other direction with Tokyo Sessions F.E., so it might give me whiplash switching the tone so quickly.
 
A

Alpende

Member
sora87 said:
So this samizdat side quest is bullshit for my play style, I can't get anywhere even when being far more stealthy than usual, there's just too much shit everywhere
Click to expand...

I thought it wasn't that hard.
There are plenty of ways, mainly air vents, to get to the second floor and go into the CEO's office. Try exploring offices on the second and first floor to find keycards.
 
d00d3n

d00d3n

Member
I don't understand why people are so negative about Desperate Measures. It is pretty short, but it provides an excellent new map that feels denser with gameplay than some main missions. It is an office complex and doesn't have striking visuals to match the main missions, but it was just fun to play. It surprised me that it worked so nicely with a reset aug tree. A nice side effect of this was the generous amount of Praxis kits that were handed out, because there was no "world state" to balance against.
 
T

TheSpaceBetween

Member
Kadayi said:
Sure I doubt the game had anywhere near the budget of GTA V, but Ubisoft managed a decent stab at Chicago, and I'd of thought that MDs budget was comparable to that at least.
Click to expand...

Why would you think that? Ubisoft is an AAA machine that puts hundreds if not thousands of people on a game, and they work on them for years. Ubi Montreal alone is like 3000 people. I can't even fathom the costs of most of their games.
 
L

locke_21183

Neo Member
d00d3n said:
I don't understand why people are so negative about Desperate Measures. It is pretty short, but it provides an excellent new map that feels denser with gameplay than some main missions. It is an office complex and doesn't have striking visuals to match the main missions, but it was just fun to play. It surprised me that it worked so nicely with a reset aug tree. A nice side effect of this was the generous amount of Praxis kits that were handed out, because there was no "world state" to balance against.
Click to expand...

I thought it was fun, but a bit disposable.
 
R

Rei_Toei

Fclvat sbe Pnanqn, ru?
How do I access the Jensen's Stories missions? I got the day one edition for PS4 but I can't seem to start those missions.
 
A

Akai__

Member
Rei_Toei said:
How do I access the Jensen's Stories missions? I got the day one edition for PS4 but I can't seem to start those missions.
Click to expand...

Physical may have a code for it? I don't know. In any case, you will first have to download it. Afterwards, it appears in the Main Menu under Jensen's Stories.
 
C

CSJ

Member
d00d3n said:
I don't understand why people are so negative about Desperate Measures. It is pretty short, but it provides an excellent new map that feels denser with gameplay than some main missions. It is an office complex and doesn't have striking visuals to match the main missions, but it was just fun to play. It surprised me that it worked so nicely with a reset aug tree. A nice side effect of this was the generous amount of Praxis kits that were handed out, because there was no "world state" to balance against.
Click to expand...

Because it's the second time they've cut content from the middle of the game and tacked it on as something you should play after the main story. Except you've completed the game, know the outcome and asks you to go back. They should have put this in the main game and I wish someone told me to play this early on because it provides more reward if it was part of the main game.

Ahh the "reset aug tree", way to make me feel like I'm playing the character I built up over weeks to go "nope, reset!" Because it's so badly added on.

Lets see how far System Link will forget the main story and again, take place during the main story with a reset aug tree.

SlickVic said:
Anyone know the name of the movie that you can start playing
on the projector in the Divali theater?
Is it D.O.A?
Click to expand...

It is yes, made a post about it, I think it might be the whole thing but I was there for maybe 15-20 minutes after I turned it on and it was still going.
 
A

Akai__

Member
Morts said:
Story DLC already? Does it take place after the ending?
Click to expand...

Character Spoiler and Location Spoiler:

"In System Rift you will re-unite with Frank Pritchard, Adam's friend and former colleague at Sarif Industries, and assist him in hunting down information on the mysterious Santeau Group."

"Desperate to get more information, Pritchard targets one of the most secure data banks ever created--the Palisade Blade. In agreeing to help, Adam may also be able to uncover hints as to who the illuminati really are."

That's all that is confirmed. I don't think they have said when it actually takes place.

4jjiyoon said:
nope lol
Click to expand...

Appareantly it was shown at PAX, but not to the public? I can't find anything about it and it's supposed to release tomorrow.
 
4

4jjiyoon

Member
Akai__ said:
Appareantly it was shown at PAX, but not to the public? I can't find anything about it and it's supposed to release tomorrow.
Click to expand...

it's supposed to be out now on steam but it changed to coming soon. i guess it's being slowly rolled out. i wanna know if it's another 15 minute mission or something substantial.
 
A

Akai__

Member
4jjiyoon said:
it's supposed to be out now on steam but it changed to coming soon. i guess it's being slowly rolled out. i wanna know if it's another 15 minute mission or something substantial.
Click to expand...

Must be a Steam error, because the official release date is the 23rd September. Unless it's a midnight release for regions where it's already the 23rd. Which might be already the case for NZ, AUS, Japan, etc.?
 
G

Glass

Member
They've literally released nothing for this DLC outside of that initial anime like image. Very weird. Are Square Enix deliberately sending it out to die or something?
 
A

Akai__

Member
Glass said:
They've literally released nothing for this DLC outside of that initial anime like image. Very weird. Are Square Enix deliberately sending it out to die or something?
Click to expand...

Probably limiting the costs, after they blew 70 million CAD on the game?
 
J

jmizzal

Member
Glass said:
They've literally released nothing for this DLC outside of that initial anime like image. Very weird. Are Square Enix deliberately sending it out to die or something?
Click to expand...

Is this DLC from the season pass, or some other DLC? How much does it cost?

Akai__ said:
Physical may have a code for it? I don't know. In any case, you will first have to download it. Afterwards, it appears in the Main Menu under Jensen's Stories.
Click to expand...

Do I have to advance the story before I can play it? I put in my code but when I go to Jensen's stories i'm not able to do anything
 
S

Shift Breaker

Member
Akai__ said:
Was there even a trailer for DLC? lol
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE_BqEU26_I

EDIT: Oh, looks like it's just came out, I didn't even check the date of this video (which, incidentally, is not the official Deus Ex Channel's video.). There's also a different trailer viewable in-game when you hover over System Rift in the Jensen stories menu.

fritzo said:
im assuming this will be really short. am I wrong?
Click to expand...

No word yet. There are a reasonable amount of trophies, so I expect it to be longer than Desperate Measures, but shorter than The Missing Link. But also, as it's a Deus Ex game, it'll likely be four hours for some and half an hour for others.
 
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