• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

XSEED localizer upset Japanese devs removed accidental KKK reference (Kotaku)

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jstripes

Banned
Gentleman Jack said:
There's a lot to unpack here. The forum post is probably the best place to start:

I personally felt "KKK witches" was pretty funny for its shock value, but when I mentioned it to my coworkers, they... were not as amused.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

There's few things more uncomfortable than someone who can't read the room and thinks of himself as hilarious.

I know someone who's like "LOL, racist joke, I'm so funny!", and is consistently met with dead silence, yet he never clues in.
 
C

Cyframe

Member
YianGaruga said:
GAF sure is a nice place today. And people wonder why devs don't post here much!

Yes, the decision is dumb. But come one people.

Did everyone already forget this? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1361243
Click to expand...

Not comparable. Tom knew what he was doing and even tried walking back a little in xseed forum posts.

Like others have said, he must be a great translator; I don't know many who would have a job after what he did here.

I like xseed as a company but this isn't the first time Tom has been bullheaded.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
at this point isn't he just a massive hypocrite for continuing to work for a company that continues to "censor" video games despite his stance against that?
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
YianGaruga said:
GAF sure is a nice place today. And people wonder why devs don't post here much!

Yes, the decision is dumb. But come one people.

Did everyone already forget this? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1361243
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. You are right we should all be a lot nicer to the guy who doesn't understand what censorship is and who has decided to die on the hill of making shitty KKK jokes in his localizations regardless of the intent of the original creators and is attempting to turn himself into a martyr for some stupid gamer gate adjacent movement. "Different viewpoints" and all that.
 
poodaddy

poodaddy

Member
Dude chose to defend the use of kkk when it wasn't even the developer's intent.
I mean....like....what? I feel like I've been drinking now.
 
N

Nairume

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
I'll be honest, as someone with friends who work at XSeed, I have been baffled for years on why XSeed keeps him around. Their worst PR has usually been because of him, but I guess his value as a localizer is worth more than the consequences of his open mouth.

But this is straight up insubordination. It would be one thing to be weird and uncomfortable in the office about it, but announcing it to the world to paint yourself as a martyr...how do you still work there after that?
Click to expand...
Didn't he actually get the company in hot water before for sneaking in a slur for transgender people after explicitly being told not to include it?

You'd think that insubordination alone would have gotten him fired.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
Obliterator said:
For real? I like the SK games a lot actually.

Wait.....in Japan are they supposed to be adolescents? Because if so that's disturbing. I've only played Shinobi Versus and Estival Versus but figured they were supposed to be adults.

Because if that is a change they did for the localization was to make them older thank God. This dude wanted to keep them younger?

I'm assuming this is about SK? Or was it a different game?
Click to expand...

Yup

I learned about Lipschultz after interviewing XSEED vice president Ken Berry, who revealed Lipschultz almost quit over his beliefs. XSEED had hoped to test the American waters with Senran Kagura as a downloadable eShop-only game. To help the game operate with less controversy, Berry planned to remove the ages from the profiles of the game’s female characters. In that game, Senran Kagura Burst, many of the characters are 15 years old and most are under 18.

Berry believed this to be a “minor” change, but it drove Lipschultz up a wall. As a compromise, Berry let Lipschultz publicly criticize the decision, so the community understood there were divisions.

Lipschultz told me he wasn’t against removing the ages, but altering them. One changes a game’s plot, the other doesn’t.

“Senran Kagura Burst is, at its heart, a coming-of-age story,” said Lipschultz, “so changing a 15-year-old to an 18-year-old would suddenly recontextualize a lot of character actions and motivations, turning characters who come across as ‘well-meaning but young and inexperienced’ into characters who simply come across as immature and misguided. Three years makes an awful lot of difference in human development, after all, and I just felt like making drastic alterations of that nature would irreparably harm the narrative. And I didn’t want to be part of a company that would consider making artistic changes of that magnitude for no other reason than because cultural differences might make people feel a little uncomfortable.”
Click to expand...
 
M

MKIL65

Member
SolicitorPirate said:
Given the shitty idiots who form a portion of XSEED's target market, I guess it's not a huge surprise shitty idiots work there as well.
Click to expand...

That's not a fair thing to say, when 2 women work there. Who also happens to have accounts here on GAF.

Besides Tom, rest of XSeed are cool people.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
I'm just going to do stupid shit on a regular basis and tell people that they made me cry for days whenever they point it out.

MKIL65 said:
That's not a fair thing to say, when 2 women work there. Who also happens to have accounts here on GAF.
Click to expand...

Uh, so I don't think anyone else at XSEED should be held accountable for the rogue actions of one employee, but I don't get your reasoning either. I don't think being a woman necessarily means you can't do stupid stuff.
 
W

WonderzL

Banned
""""""""censorship"""""""" is never done because of """""sjw""""". blame conservative families. they are the ones that will get mad about they precious children near stuff
 
V

Ventara

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
That's a great policy XSeed has, IE if you asked to be removed from the credits for the game, then you don't deserve to be credited for future games with XSeed.

As for the story, yeah that's not censorship. Not even close.
Click to expand...

Is it, though? Like let's say a translator doesn't want his name associated with a game they don't agree with (let's say for it having depictions of underage sexualization), but it's their job, so they can't refuse to work, and finding a new one isn't exactly easy. I can understand why someone might legitimately not want to be credited on a particular work but still deserve to get credited in ones he does.
 
C

ChrisD

Member
Well... that's an interesting way to go. All the posts on the first page covering how this wouldn't even be censorship, but rather a good localization effort hit the nail on the head.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Ventara said:
Is it, though? Like let's say a translator doesn't want his name associated with a game they don't agree with (let's say for it having depictions of underage sexualization), but it's their job, so they can't refuse to work, and finding a new one isn't exactly easy. I can understand why someone might legitimately not want to be credited on a particular work but still deserve to get credited in ones he does.
Click to expand...

they're working at xseed, what would they expect?
 
P

Pellegri Testament

Member
Obliterator said:
For real? I like the SK games a lot actually.

Wait.....in Japan are they supposed to be adolescents? Because if so that's disturbing. I've only played Shinobi Versus and Estival Versus but figured they were supposed to be adults.

Because if that is a change they did for the localization was to make them older thank God. This dude wanted to keep them younger?

I'm assuming this is about SK? Or was it a different game?
Click to expand...

Did you actually think they were adults? lol. Nah man, most of the girls in the games are 15-16, but you won't see that in the games because Xseed decided to just not list their ages rather than change them, mainly done to appease Tom.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Shaanyboi said:
This motherfucker is publicly painting himself like some martyr in defense of an unintentional KKK reference. He then denounces his company's actions, which I'm sure his bosses and coworkers are thrilled about. He is rightfully being called out on it. How else are people supposed to be reacting? He's being an idiot.

And this isn't even touching what people are assuming his larger political opinions are.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you guys advocating to be "nice" or whatever can get lost. Tom chose to make a fool of himself at work and in public and people are responding in kind.

Again: This is the hill he chose to die on. It doesn't look good from any angle. And that's before considering his already checkered record.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
Nairume said:
Didn't he actually get the company in hot water before for sneaking in a slur for transgender people after explicitly being told not to include it?

You'd think that insubordination alone would have gotten him fired.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that's correct. What he did was loudly publicly defend including it, but I don't think he actually authored it.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Gentleman Jack said:
The policy actually puzzles me a little bit. It's almost as if they're afraid to ask for resignations or just fire them if they're that rebellious against the company consensus on how best to localize a game, especially when it comes to unintentional gags laced with connotations of a domestic terror group that attacks and murders black people and people who help black people. If I'm that guy's coworker, I'm thinking, "Do I really want to continue being his coworker if he thought that was funny and worth a fight over keeping?"
Click to expand...

It's more in the lines of 'If you don't have confidence in this one project we're working on, and confidence in your coworkers ability, then you don't deserve to be listed in our future projects.'

Basically, you can't pick and choose which games to be credited in just because you personally think one of the games is shitty.

Ventara said:
Is it, though? Like let's say a translator doesn't want his name associated with a game they don't agree with (let's say for it having depictions of underage sexualization), but it's their job, so they can't refuse to work, and finding a new one isn't exactly easy. I can understand why someone might legitimately not want to be credited on a particular work but still deserve to get credited in ones he does.
Click to expand...

Same thing-It's the whole team working together on that game. Well he can choose not to work on the game. It'll affect his employment. But if you're working for XSeed, knowing the type of games they translate, you shouldn't be shocked or surprised when they continue localizing those same types of games.

Like....if I start working for Rockstar, and then am put to work on a game with ultra violence and edgy scenarios, I'm not gonna go 'I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS AT ALL'. I knew what I was getting into by working at Rockstar, I should not be shocked nor surprised when they decide to make another Grand Theft Auto.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
Nairume said:
Didn't he actually get the company in hot water before for sneaking in a slur for transgender people after explicitly being told not to include it?

You'd think that insubordination alone would have gotten him fired.
Click to expand...
Okay, straight up fuck this guy. How has he not been fired?
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
KuwabaraTheMan said:
XSEED releases a lot of high quality games that don't have any of that sort of content in them.
Click to expand...

but they also release a lot of games that also do have that. it's not like having to work on one of them would be totally out of left field. and as far as we know that's never even happened. hell, this is probably the first time we've heard about their policy regarding credits.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
It's more in the lines of 'If you don't have confidence in this one project we're working on, and confidence in your coworkers ability, then you don't deserve to be listed in our future projects.'

Basically, you can't pick and choose which games to be credited in just because you personally think one of the games is shitty.
Click to expand...

I guess I just can't imagine working in an office where certain policies are handed out as permanent, punitive measures. Perhaps the intent was always to pressure them to resign if it came to that, without spelling it out.
 
M

Marmaladefire

Member
Obliterator said:
For real? I like the SK games a lot actually.

Wait.....in Japan are they supposed to be adolescents? Because if so that's disturbing. I've only played Shinobi Versus and Estival Versus but figured they were supposed to be adults.

Because if that is a change they did for the localization was to make them older thank God. This dude wanted to keep them younger?

I'm assuming this is about SK? Or was it a different game?
Click to expand...

Yes. They're teenage ninja school girls with big tits.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
KuwabaraTheMan said:
XSEED releases a lot of high quality games that don't have any of that sort of content in them.
Click to expand...

tbf the majority of games xseed works on are anime-like games(if not straight up anime games.)

Anime always has that sort of shit.

Gentleman Jack said:
I guess I just can't imagine working in an office where certain policies are handed out as permanent, punitive measures. Perhaps the intent was always to pressure them to resign if it came to that, without spelling it out.
Click to expand...

I believe it is that. This localizer disagreed with his company, threw his own team under the bus because he thought they asked Acquire to change it, asked to have his name removed, and now he gets to pay the iron price. That's completely fair.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Gentleman Jack said:
I guess I just can't imagine working in an office where certain policies are handed out as permanent, punitive measures. Perhaps the intent was always to pressure them to resign if it came to that, without spelling it out.
Click to expand...

That's almost definitely what it is. Losing the ability to be credited for your work is brutal in any industry that relies on credits
 
O

Obliterator

Member
Pellegri Testament said:
Did you actually think they were adults? lol. Nah man, most of the girls in the games are 15-16, but you won't see that in the games because Xseed decided to just not list their ages rather than change them, mainly done to appease Tom.
Click to expand...

Idk tbh I don't play SK with any semblance of paying attention to the "lore" or plot so figured they were 18 because, well under that would be illegal in the US I'm assuming considering some of the stuff they show in those games.

I play it because they are fun boobie hack and slashers that can be pretty silly funny sometimes. Pretty disturbing that in Japan they design characters that look like that and want them to be 15 though. That's pretty fucked up.
 
S

SolicitorPirate

Member
MKIL65 said:
That's not a fair thing to say, when 2 women work there. Who also happens to have accounts here on GAF.

Besides Tom, rest of XSeed are cool people.
Click to expand...

Gamergate had women too.

That said, I get where you're coming from, and agree that the wording I used painted with an unnecessarily broad brush. So I apologise for that and anyone I offended or targeted
 
M

MrBS

Member
Yikes. Preserving an unintentional reference for its 'shock' humour that no one involved with the project wanted. Consider me shocked. I hope the bridge burning over this issue was worth it.
 
D

Dio

Banned
F0rneus said:
Defends lolis IRL and absolutely wants a KKK reference in a game...Shit I wonder who he voted for!
Click to expand...

Clinton, actually, IIRC. On Facebook he's mentioned Trump and Hitler in the same breath, and his avatar is a rainbow in support of gay rights.

He's not a Trump supporter. He's the complete opposite actually.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

IGN: Phil Spencer Has Now Been Head of Xbox for 10 Years; We Look Back at His First Decade
Opinion Analysis 2 3
130
7K
ZehDon replied
Interview with Shuji Utsumi (SEGA Co-COO) by Japanese media outlet Seizo-Trend
Business Game Dev
1
1K
Unknown? replied
  • Poll
Why Xbox Abandoning The Traditional Console Business Model, Makes Business Sense
Business Analysis Platform 2
72
5K
WitchHunter replied
  • x2
Ctrl+Alt+Deceive: All The Dirt, Info, Lies, and LOLs We Found During FTC vs. Microsoft
2 3 4 5 6
293
28K
Heisenberg007 replied
  • Locked
How The Last of Us became 'the greatest story' ever told in video games
Opinion Analysis 2 3 4 5
203
17K
Elysium44 replied
Top Bottom