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Veezy · Mar 16, 2012

Jason's Ultimatum said:
I've also read going very light helps, too. But I'm not sure if I want to take a chance and have the pain prolong while doing stretching exercises. I dunno, maybe I will. I'll ask a couple of trainers that actually know what they're talking about tommorrow.

And it's not my specifically my elbows as I've said. It's the medial epicondylitis/ulnar bone. It's that tiny round bone on the inside of your forearm.

A trainer may be able to give you some advice on stretching, but in my experience, personally and professionally, if you have enough pain in a joint that a NSAID, ice, and some rest isn't resolving you probably should speak to an Orthopedic specialist.

It could be a complete waste of money and they may not find anything on an X-Ray, but if your worried to the point you want to take a month off from putting stress on your elbow, you really should search for somebody locally and see what they can do for you.

Timedog said:
MrCity's (that he's posted to me before) doesn't really come to any conclusion on the issue. Your link is actually sweet, but it recommends .8g/lb of bodyweight based off of that study, much less than the amount people are recommending in the thread. Although .8g/lb makes way more intuitive sense than 1.4+g/lb.

This is the portion of that particular abstract that is key:

A suggested recommended intake for S (sedentary subjects) was 0.89 g.kg-1.day-1 and for SA (Strength Athletes) was 1.76 g.kg-1.day-1. For SA, the LP diet did not provide adequate protein and resulted in an accommodated state (decreased WBPS vs. MP and HP), and the MP diet resulted in a state of adaptation [increase in WBPS (vs. LP) and no change in leucine oxidation (vs. LP)]. The HP diet did not result in increased WBPS compared with the MP diet, but leucine oxidation did increase significantly, indicating a nutrient overload. For S the LP diet provided adequate protein, and increasing protein intake did not increase WBPS. On the HP diet leucine oxidation increased for S.

So, while the .8g per 1lb of body weight resulted in adaptation for the SA (strength athlete), the HP diet resulted in a nutrient overload. Thus, more calories, thus probably leading to an increase in mass. The main point of the article is that the more you train, the more you need to eat.

With the above in mind, you're correct in that .8g is enough for adaptation. Most though aren't trying to adapt, they're trying to set new PRs or get bigger. Hence the larger requirement in protein (which, once again, you should be eating more of anyways as 30% or more of your daily caloric intake should be coming from protein calories, yadda yadda yadda).

It's all a fairly silly argument in the long run, as the solution to 90% of stalling on anything is eat more clean calories of all macronutrients. What I'd love to see is the full article to view what sports/routines the SAs were on to see what the study considered a strength athlete, however I don't care enough to drop twenty dollars to see the full study.

Timedog · Mar 16, 2012

Veezy said:
This is the portion of that particular abstract that is key:

So, while the .8g per 1lb of body weight resulted in adaptation for the SA (strength athlete), the HP diet resulted in a nutrient overload. Thus, more calories, thus probably leading to an increase in mass. The main point of the article is that the more you train, the more you need to eat.

With the above in mind, you're correct in that .8g is enough for adaptation. Most though aren't trying to adapt, they're trying to set new PRs or get bigger. Hence the larger requirement in protein (which, once again, you should be eating more of anyways as 30% or more of your daily caloric intake should be coming from protein calories, yadda yadda yadda).

It's all a fairly silly argument in the long run, as the solution to 90% of stalling on anything is eat more clean calories of all macronutrients. What I'd love to see is the full article to view what sports/routines the SAs were on to see what the study considered a strength athlete, however I don't care enough to drop twenty dollars to see the full study.

Err, wat? Nutrient overload meaning there was more protein than the body could handle. The main point of the article had nothing to do with eating more in general, it had to do with eating more protein. It doesn't say anything about the amount of calories the participants ate (unless I missed something in there). You're using the term "adaptation" in a completely difference context than the abstract. How you came to those conclusions from reading that abstract, I have no idea.

Veezy · Mar 16, 2012

Timedog said:
Err, wat? Nutrient overload meaning there was more protein than the body could handle. The main point of the article had nothing to do with eating more in general, it had to do with eating more protein. It doesn't say anything about the amount of calories the participants ate (unless I missed something in there). You're using the term "adaptation" in a completely difference context than the abstract. How you came to those conclusions from reading that abstract, I have no idea.

I spoke a bit around myself. What I should have said was:

The Strength Athletes in the study received enough protein to adapt to the stresses they put themselves under. So, it would make sense that the more stress you put yourself under, you should probably consume more protein. There's also a lot of assumption here, on both our ends, because we don't know exactly what this study considers a SA. Is this a power lifter? Somebody who does moderate work at the gym? A line backer? Basketball player? Tap dancer looking to have nicer calves? We don't know, we just know it's somebody under more physical stress than the person sitting on their ass.

Really, again, MY (personal) main point (and the conclusion of most trainers/coaches) is that if you're training and you're not seeing a particular result you should probably consume more calories as a whole and part of that should (better) contain more protein. .8g per lb of body weight is probably fine for most people who are just working out to stay in their current shape and at their current numbers. But, if you're looking to excel in a particular department, you'll need more of everything, protein included. As the summary stated, if you're working out you need more protein than the person hanging out.

Hope that's more clear. Besides, saying 1g per lb of body weight as a starting point and go up from there is easier math than the .8g per lb of body weight.

Also, nutrient overload isn't a bad thing. Most novice athletes don't need 3-4k calories, but if you're looking to be 200lbs at some point, you have to start eating that way. The whole bulking and cutting thing.

hawkshockey11 · Mar 16, 2012

No better feeling than running your hands over muscle that wasn't there a month ago. Why didn't I start this sooner?!!??

jts · Mar 16, 2012

MrOogieBoogie said:
Hey GAF, does this 60-year-old man look in better shape than you?

Well, I have better teeth!

No seriously, dayuuum. Calisthenics is so cool. That's what I want to do in the long run.

Timedog · Mar 16, 2012

Veezy said:
I spoke a bit around myself. What I should have said was:

The Strength Athletes in the study received enough protein to adapt to the stresses they put themselves under. So, it would make sense that the more stress you put yourself under, you should probably consume more protein. There's also a lot of assumption here, on both our ends, because we don't know exactly what this study considers a SA. Is this a power lifter? Somebody who does moderate work at the gym? A line backer? Basketball player? Tap dancer looking to have nicer calves? We don't know, we just know it's somebody under more physical stress than the person sitting on their ass.

Really, again, MY (personal) main point (and the conclusion of most trainers/coaches) is that if you're training and you're not seeing a particular result you should probably consume more calories as a whole and part of that should (better) contain more protein. .8g per lb of body weight is probably fine for most people who are just working out to stay in their current shape and at their current numbers. But, if you're looking to excel in a particular department, you'll need more of everything, protein included. As the summary stated, if you're working out you need more protein than the person hanging out.

Hope that's more clear. Besides, saying 1g per lb of body weight as a starting point and go up from there is easier math than the .8g per lb of body weight.

Also, nutrient overload isn't a bad thing. Most novice athletes don't need 3-4k calories, but if you're looking to be 200lbs at some point, you have to start eating that way. The whole bulking and cutting thing.

Ugh, in the study there is no increased protein synthesis happening when you go from medium protein to high protein. No increased protein synthesis = no further muscle growth. The body is at it's maximum capacity for creating proteins given the circumstances of the test.

Does the test have possible problems? Sure. But it is in no way (from that abstract, at least) an endorsement to consume more than .8g/lb of bodyweight.

AdventureRacing · Mar 16, 2012

Sorry if this is covered in the OP but how will doing cardio on my workout days affect my results? I really want to try and get my fitness back for rugby so i've been doing a lot of cardio.

My question is if i should leave my cardio out on the days i do workouts (which is 3 days a week at the moment). I'm probably running for an hour or 2 a day (i really enjoy running) and i'm wondering how this will affect my gains from lifting at the gym.

calza · Mar 16, 2012

AdventureRacing said:
Sorry if this is covered in the OP but how will doing cardio on my workout days affect my results? I really want to try and get my fitness back for rugby so i've been doing a lot of cardio.

My question is if i should leave my cardio out on the days i do workouts (which is 3 days a week at the moment). I'm probably running for an hour or 2 a day (i really enjoy running) and i'm wondering how this will affect my gains from lifting at the gym.

Do cardio either after or on your off days from lifting. I would personally recommend sprinting (HIIT) over running for 1/2 hours.

If you are doing it every day it will affect your lifting, you will be increasing the time it takes to recover from both lifting and the running.

I would do lifting m,w,f, then running Tu,Th, and have the weekend to relax. But it is up to you. If you are doing full body workouts definitely have a day off in between lifting.

AdventureRacing · Mar 16, 2012

calza said:
Do cardio either after or on your off days from lifting. I would personally recommend sprinting (HIIT) over running for 1/2 hours.

Yeah i've been heading more in that direction. The problem is i had gotten quite unfit so i felt like i wasn't getting much out of sprinting sessions. Now that i'm back running well again i'm starting to do more sprints. Not sure i'll ever get all of my speed back.

Deleted member 12837 · Mar 16, 2012

Timedog said:
Ugh, in the study there is no increased protein synthesis happening when you go from medium protein to high protein. No increased protein synthesis = no further muscle growth. The body is at it's maximum capacity for creating proteins given the circumstances of the test.

Does the test have possible problems? Sure. But it is in no way (from that abstract, at least) an endorsement to consume more than .8g/lb of bodyweight.

You're focusing entirely on the fact that it's protein and missing the bigger picture.

Veezy is also making the argument that in order to grow/bulk in a substantial way, you need to increase overall calories. If you're insisting on only eating .8g/lb of protein then those calories would have to come from fat or carbs, so you might as well just eat more than .8g/lb of protein instead because it's a healthier/cleaner way to get those extra calories.

It doesn't matter if the protein is "wasted" in regards to protein synthesis (if that's even true, but I'll just go with that since that's your argument), because they still provide extra calories.

Timedog · Mar 16, 2012

404Ender said:
You're focusing entirely on the fact that it's protein and missing the bigger picture.

Veezy is also making the argument that in order to grow/bulk in a substantial way, you need to increase overall calories. If you're insisting on only eating .8g/lb of protein then those calories would have to come from fat or carbs, so you might as well just eat more than .8g/lb of protein instead because it's a healthier/cleaner way to get those extra calories.

It doesn't matter if the protein is "wasted" in regards to protein synthesis (if that's even true, but I'll just go with that since that's your argument), because they still provide extra calories.

Why are fats and carbs necessarily "dirtier" than protein?

RumblingRosco · Mar 16, 2012

Sorry, not the most interesting of posts here, but I just made a damn awesome steak last night in my oven. I've never done this before, but shit is it good, and I highly recommend it. I used Alton Brown's recipe. Seriously, do yourself a favor and after a hard lifting session make this steak for yourself.

MjFrancis · Mar 16, 2012

Soka, steak is always pertinent to the discussion in the fitness thread. Here I'll copy the recipe for others to look at in awe of how easy it can be to cook a steak for yourself year-round.

Ingredients

1 boneless rib eye steak, 1 1/2-inch thick
Canola oil to coat
Kosher salt and ground black pepper

Directions

Place 10 to 12-inch cast iron skillet in oven and heat oven to 500 degrees. Bring steak(s) to room temperature.

When oven reaches temperature, remove pan and place on range over high heat. Coat steak lightly with oil and season both sides with a generous pinch of salt. Grind on black pepper to taste.

Immediately place steak in the middle of hot, dry pan. Cook 30 seconds without moving. Turn with tongs and cook another 30 seconds, then put the pan straight into the oven for 2 minutes. Flip steak and cook for another 2 minutes. (This time is for medium rare steaks. If you prefer medium, add a minute to both of the oven turns.)

Remove steak from pan, cover loosely with foil, and rest for 2 minutes. Serve whole or slice thin and fan onto plate.

And somewhat related is the commentary and fuss concerning the study finding associations with red meat consumption and mortality. It may seem like I'm raining on your parade (and I may very well feel the need to do so, given this rainy Friday in Seattle) but it's not the end of the world. I enjoyed Silverhydra's take on the study, myself. Here's the link:

That Meat Study Everybody is Bitching About

Deleted member 12837 · Mar 16, 2012

Soka said:
Sorry, not the most interesting of posts here, but I just made a damn awesome steak last night in my oven. I've never done this before, but shit is it good, and I highly recommend it. I used Alton Brown's recipe. Seriously, do yourself a favor and after a hard lifting session make this steak for yourself.

MjFrancis said:
Soka, steak is always pertinent to the discussion in the fitness thread. Here I'll copy the recipe for others to look at in awe of how easy it can be to cook a steak for yourself year-round.

And somewhat related is the commentary and fuss concerning the study finding associations with red meat consumption and mortality. It may seem like I'm raining on your parade (and I may very well feel the need to do so, given this rainy Friday in Seattle) but it's not the end of the world. I enjoyed Silverhydra's take on the study, myself. Here's the link:

That Meat Study Everybody is Bitching About

What kind of oil do you use to coat the steak? Isn't 500 degrees way above most oils' smoke points?

MjFrancis · Mar 16, 2012

I've never cooked a steak that way - as nice as it sounds - but it does seem like some people had problems with the smoke you get from this. Good ventilation is almost certainly a must for that recipe. I imagine the amount of oil used is a factor, too. Some people might brush a bit on and others may translate the word "coat" as dumping a cup of canola oil on your steak.

Ashhong · Mar 16, 2012

404Ender said:
What kind of oil do you use to coat the steak? Isn't 500 degrees way above most oils' smoke points?

I always coat mine with EVOO

Veezy · Mar 16, 2012

Timedog said:
Why are fats and carbs necessarily "dirtier" than protein?

Because of what the body uses fats and carbs for. Generally, increasing your calories by just eating more fats and carbs is going to put more, for most people, more undesirable weight on than a balance of everything.

Look, you need to balace all three macro nutrients. You need to eat more calories than you expel to gain weight and make all around athletic increases. That's it. For most people, saying "eat 1g per lb of body weight and get 3k calories per day" is easier to track and understand than saying "Eat 3k calories per day, 40% from fat 30% from carbs and 30% from protein" (portions recommended by Dr. Kilgore in the book Fit and happens to be the portions of the Zone diet designed by Dr. Spears. Although, Dr. Spears isn't a fan of anything that has to high calories in it, but now were discussing specifics of a diet)

Hell, I don't even tell people that, as I explain diet through portion control and taking pictures and tracking numbers, and when people want to adjust something I tell them to just adjust the portions up or down (or, if they're getting results, stay the same). This is due to the fact there's not some one size fits everybody approach to nutrition, just some generally rules that work for the vast amounts of people that you tweak depending on personal goals.

I really don't have much more to add to this topic. Athletes eat a lot of protein.

Jason's Ultimatum · Mar 16, 2012

Talked to a trainer at the gym today to get some tips on stretching. He also got this rolling thing and had me straigten my arm out fat on a table while sitting in a chair. He rolled that fucker very slowly from my bicep down to my forearms. HOLY SHIT at the pain when he was rolling it down my biceps.

Echoes of Pink · Mar 16, 2012

Jason's Ultimatum said:
Talked to a trainer at the gym today to get some tips on stretching. He also got this rolling thing and had me straigten my arm out fat on a table while sitting in a chair. He rolled that fucker very slowly from my bicep down to my forearms. HOLY SHIT at the pain when he was rolling it down my biceps.

Sounds like foam rolling. It's getting popular recently because it definitely loosens you up.

I've bought a roller and have been rolling my legs and hips every once in a while. Feels good man.

Timedog · Mar 16, 2012

How much excess fat do you guys think is necessary to efficiently add muscle? A lb of fat for every lb of muscle? A half lb of fat for every lb of muscle.

thomaser · Mar 16, 2012

Jason's Ultimatum said:
Talked to a trainer at the gym today to get some tips on stretching. He also got this rolling thing and had me straigten my arm out fat on a table while sitting in a chair. He rolled that fucker very slowly from my bicep down to my forearms. HOLY SHIT at the pain when he was rolling it down my biceps.

Great, isn't it? I bought a few foam rollers two months ago, and have used them almost every day since then. They have really helped to loosen up my quads, hamstrings and calves, and it's easier for me now to f.ex. go deeper in squats. And stretching feels better and easier after a roller session. The pain from rolling goes away pretty quickly... except for when you press directly on a trigger point, of course.

Mr.City · Mar 17, 2012

Timedog said:
How much excess fat do you guys think is necessary to efficiently add muscle? A lb of fat for every lb of muscle? A half lb of fat for every lb of muscle.

I'd say keep eating until you can't see your dick anymore when you look down. That's when the best gains of all come forth.

The real answer is muscle gain is all about diminishing returns, so more aggressive bulking leads to greater fat gains as you become more advanced. The real real answer is what you're comfortable with. The infamous Zach situation on SS is an example of someone getting into the lower 20% range of bodyfat while getting very nice strength gains. Of course, some were not impressed because they thought the body fat was too high. (Cue the before/after pics with the dude jacked, 8% body fat, and tan in the final pic)

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

The following link is an article discussing the genetic potential of muscle gain in various stages of training, which can be coupled for your preference of fat gain.

When in doubt, going for an increase of 1 lb a week works well for those worried about those getting too pleasantly plump.

Domino Theory · Mar 17, 2012

Timedog said:
Why are fats and carbs necessarily "dirtier" than protein?

Dietary fat is easily stored into fat cells independent of insulin. They simply roam around in your bloodstream, waiting to be used by an organ, the brain, skin, anything, until it's all used up. If you eat at a calorie surplus, the remaining fat roaming in your blood simply goes straight into fat cells without the need for insulin to shuffle it in there. It's easy to overeat on fat because it's also the most calorie dense macronutrient (9 cal/g) compared to carbs and protein (4 cal/g).

Carbs are stored into fat cells, but only when glycogen is completely full. When overeating on carbs right after a workout, most of your glycogen is depleted and your muscles become incredibly insulin sensitive so the insulin response from a carb refeed after a workout causes insulin to shuffle all the carbs into glycogen, but the byproduct of this strong insulin response is that it shuffles protein into the muscles at the same (that is, if you have carbs and protein as your PWO meal and not one or the other).

This is particularly why Leangains is so effective (excellent article here: http://rippedbody.jp/2012/03/02/why-is-leangains-so-effective/) for people wanting to lose fat AND gain muscle at the same time - they do carb refeeds right after a workout when their muscles are depleted of glycogen and insulin sensitive AND they choose this period to consume more than 50% of their daily calories which means insulin is shuffling almost ALL the food in that period right into muscles for glycogen replenishment, repair, and growth. But the rest of your body still demands energy to run, but can't use the food you ate as your PWO meal because all of the nutrients there are being pushed into your muscles by insulin so your body converts stored fat into energy even while you're overeating PWO. Once glycogen is filled up completely, any remaining carbs in the bloodstream are pushed into fat cells by insulin.

Protein, on the other hand, is constantly required by every single cell in your body for maintenace, repair, and growth. Protein requires insulin to be shuffled around, but cannot be stored as fat since every fiber of you is demanding protein for its vitality. You can see a study here that shows that if you eat excess calories FROM PROTEIN, you increase lean mass: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-01/jaaj-woc122911.php

If you're going to overeat, overeat on calories that come from protein.

I don't know if I ended up going too off topic, but I wanted to cover my bases. Hope this helped.

Ashhong · Mar 17, 2012

I so sad, stalling nonstop in my SL routine. First it was Pendlay rows on Wednesday, today it was OHP and deadlifts. I can get the reps done but the form doesnt look right so I figure I should do the weight again next time :/

Timedog · Mar 17, 2012

When actually doing the figures, the protein levels make sense.

I need about 3500 calories to maintain bodyweight. If I'm eating 30% protein calories (which seems reasonable) that's 1050 calories from protein, which is 262.5g of protein for my 242 lb body, or 1.08g/lb of bodyweight.

Obviously, if I'm eating more, so that I actually grow, that ratio of grams of protein per lb of bodyweight will include even more protein.

Echoes of Pink · Mar 17, 2012

Ashhong said:
I so sad, stalling nonstop in my SL routine. First it was Pendlay rows on Wednesday, today it was OHP and deadlifts. I can get the reps done but the form doesnt look right so I figure I should do the weight again next time :/

Remember 3 stalls, then deload the weight by 10% and focus on form and power of the lift on the build back up. Stay strong, stalls build character. ; )

Timedog · Mar 17, 2012

Domino Theory said:
Dietary fat is easily stored into fat cells independent of insulin. They simply roam around in your bloodstream, waiting to be used by an organ, the brain, skin, anything, until it's all used up. If you eat at a calorie surplus, the remaining fat roaming in your blood simply goes straight into fat cells without the need for insulin to shuffle it in there. It's easy to overeat on fat because it's also the most calorie dense macronutrient (9 cal/g) compared to carbs and protein (4 cal/g).

Carbs are stored into fat cells, but only when glycogen is completely full. When overeating on carbs right after a workout, most of your glycogen is depleted and your muscles become incredibly insulin sensitive so the insulin response from a carb refeed after a workout causes insulin to shuffle all the carbs into glycogen, but the byproduct of this strong insulin response is that it shuffles protein into the muscles at the same (that is, if you have carbs and protein as your PWO meal and not one or the other).

This is particularly why Leangains is so effective (excellent article here: http://rippedbody.jp/2012/03/02/why-is-leangains-so-effective/) for people wanting to lose fat AND gain muscle at the same time - they do carb refeeds right after a workout when their muscles are depleted of glycogen and insulin sensitive AND they choose this period to consume more than 50% of their daily calories which means insulin is shuffling almost ALL the food in that period right into muscles for glycogen replenishment, repair, and growth. But the rest of your body still demands energy to run, but can't use the food you ate as your PWO meal because all of the nutrients there are being pushed into your muscles by insulin so your body converts stored fat into energy even while you're overeating PWO. Once glycogen is filled up completely, any remaining carbs in the bloodstream are pushed into fat cells by insulin.

Protein, on the other hand, is constantly required by every single cell in your body for maintenace, repair, and growth. Protein requires insulin to be shuffled around, but cannot be stored as fat since every fiber of you is demanding protein for its vitality. You can see a study here that shows that if you eat excess calories FROM PROTEIN, you increase lean mass: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-01/jaaj-woc122911.php

If you're going to overeat, overeat on calories that come from protein.

I don't know if I ended up going too off topic, but I wanted to cover my bases. Hope this helped.

Very nice. Thank you.

edit: wait, protein can't get stored as fat? like literally that chemical conversion isn't possible in the body and excess protein is all excreted?

cryptic · Mar 17, 2012

Domino Theory said:
Dietary fat is easily stored into fat cells independent of insulin. They simply roam around in your bloodstream, waiting to be used by an organ, the brain, skin, anything, until it's all used up. If you eat at a calorie surplus, the remaining fat roaming in your blood simply goes straight into fat cells without the need for insulin to shuffle it in there. It's easy to overeat on fat because it's also the most calorie dense macronutrient (9 cal/g) compared to carbs and protein (4 cal/g).

Carbs are stored into fat cells, but only when glycogen is completely full. When overeating on carbs right after a workout, most of your glycogen is depleted and your muscles become incredibly insulin sensitive so the insulin response from a carb refeed after a workout causes insulin to shuffle all the carbs into glycogen, but the byproduct of this strong insulin response is that it shuffles protein into the muscles at the same (that is, if you have carbs and protein as your PWO meal and not one or the other).

This is particularly why Leangains is so effective (excellent article here: http://rippedbody.jp/2012/03/02/why-is-leangains-so-effective/) for people wanting to lose fat AND gain muscle at the same time - they do carb refeeds right after a workout when their muscles are depleted of glycogen and insulin sensitive AND they choose this period to consume more than 50% of their daily calories which means insulin is shuffling almost ALL the food in that period right into muscles for glycogen replenishment, repair, and growth. But the rest of your body still demands energy to run, but can't use the food you ate as your PWO meal because all of the nutrients there are being pushed into your muscles by insulin so your body converts stored fat into energy even while you're overeating PWO. Once glycogen is filled up completely, any remaining carbs in the bloodstream are pushed into fat cells by insulin.

Protein, on the other hand, is constantly required by every single cell in your body for maintenace, repair, and growth. Protein requires insulin to be shuffled around, but cannot be stored as fat since every fiber of you is demanding protein for its vitality. You can see a study here that shows that if you eat excess calories FROM PROTEIN, you increase lean mass: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-01/jaaj-woc122911.php

If you're going to overeat, overeat on calories that come from protein.

I don't know if I ended up going too off topic, but I wanted to cover my bases. Hope this helped.

Alan Aragon has studies that show not eating fat post workout may even hinder excercise recovery. http://user210805.websitewizard.com/files/unprotected/AARR-Jan-2008.pdf Also, let's clarify that no matter how much you eat muscle glycogen doesn't fill up "instantly", it take's about twenty-four hours irregardless of macro nutrient ratios.

parrotbeak · Mar 17, 2012

Ashhong said:
I so sad, stalling nonstop in my SL routine. First it was Pendlay rows on Wednesday, today it was OHP and deadlifts. I can get the reps done but the form doesnt look right so I figure I should do the weight again next time :/

If it's just Wednesday and today it could be a lot of short term factors like sleep, food, stress--so many things can keep you from performing at your best. I wouldn't worry about it, happens to everyone. Just keep trying.

cuevas. PhD. · Mar 17, 2012

Ashhong said:
I so sad, stalling nonstop in my SL routine. First it was Pendlay rows on Wednesday, today it was OHP and deadlifts. I can get the reps done but the form doesnt look right so I figure I should do the weight again next time :/

Heh, just wait till you start failing at all 3 in 1 day. -it's part of the game.

Ashhong · Mar 17, 2012

Echoes of Pink said:
Remember 3 stalls, then deload the weight by 10% and focus on form and power of the lift on the build back up. Stay strong, stalls build character. ; )

Yea, I haven't stalled 3 times yet, but it's only a matter of time.

parrotbeak said:
If it's just Wednesday and today it could be a lot of short term factors like sleep, food, stress--so many things can keep you from performing at your best. I wouldn't worry about it, happens to everyone. Just keep trying.

Hm, that's a good point, thanks. Didn't think about that. I was feeling a little tired, and today is one of my hardest days with the OHP and deadlift.

cuevas said:
Heh, just wait till you start failing at all 3 in 1 day. -it's part of the game.

Hahah yea, I just don't like to fail! What do I do if I fail on the 3rd set out of 5? Do I just try 2 more sets, even if I can only do like 1 rep in each?

kylej · Mar 17, 2012

Ashhong said:
I so sad, stalling nonstop in my SL routine. First it was Pendlay rows on Wednesday, today it was OHP and deadlifts. I can get the reps done but the form doesnt look right so I figure I should do the weight again next time :/

Welcome to the end of newbie gains. Time to kick and spit your way up

cuevas. PhD. · Mar 17, 2012

You do as many reps as you can each set. So yeah you could have a workout go 5-4-3-3-1 or something.

parrotbeak · Mar 17, 2012

Ashhong said:
Hahah yea, I just don't like to fail! What do I do if I fail on the 3rd set out of 5? Do I just try 2 more sets, even if I can only do like 1 rep in each?

The way I get over it is, if you get 3 reps of a heavier weight up, that's something you've never done before. Even if you don't complete your 5x5 next time, you'll most likely get more reps total in. Just keep track of it. This week might be 5/5/5/1/1. Next time could be 5/5/5/3/2. That's 3 more reps total at a weight you've never done in your life before. Good job!

Domino Theory · Mar 17, 2012

Timedog said:
Very nice. Thank you.

edit: wait, protein can't get stored as fat? like literally that chemical conversion isn't possible in the body and excess protein is all excreted?

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

From the man Lyle himself (there's more in the link):

Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of ‘fat&#8217 isn’t one of them.

I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.

Basically, excess protein is converted into usable energy once repair, maintenance, and growth have been fulfilled, NOT storable fat.

In addition to Lyle's statements, you also have to look into the fact that the more protein you consume, the faster your metabolism is for that day because protein demands a lot of energy compared to carbs and fat in order to be digested through an increased thermic effect which makes it even harder for protein to ever be stored as fat.

Diatribe1974 · Mar 17, 2012

Am slowly starting to see/feel gains in my strength (for the most part in most areas) after 3 weeks of working out. My leg presses started around 250lbs and have them up to 340lbs now. Bench was about 125lbs and now it's up to 135lbs. Calf raises from 90lbs to 135lbs. Still wish I could do squats. FML.

Jason's Ultimatum · Mar 17, 2012

For people that go through a cutting phase, are you suppose to go light with more reps? If so, what's the rep range?

ChuyMasta · Mar 17, 2012

ChuyMasta said:
Friday March 2nd
Initial weight 210

Friday March 9th
207

Got into a diet, hit the gym 6 times a week for an hour. Alternating upper and lower body.
Started a diet rich in grains (lots of brown rice)
Taking proteins and Hydroxycut.

Body fighting back =/

Friday March 16th
205

Noticing slight improvement in exercise performance. Feels good. Started weight lifting this week. Nothing fancy; did curls, bench press, inclined, and some others which names escapes me at the moment (My partner and I speak in Spanish all the time, so I don't know the name for the exercises)

Still following the diet. I ended up eating breakfast at work. Seems convinient. I cook all the meals I need the day before. Water consumption right on target. 6-8 bottles of water distributed during the day. I have a 24 pack in my classroom, another one at home. Makes life slightly easier.

BoobPhysics101 · Mar 17, 2012

Jason's Ultimatum said:
For people that go through a cutting phase, are you suppose to go light with more reps? If so, what's the rep range?

12-15 I believe.

Domino Theory · Mar 17, 2012

BoobPhysics101 said:
12-15 I believe.

Fuck that, RPT is best.

Veezy · Mar 17, 2012

Jason's Ultimatum said:
For people that go through a cutting phase, are you suppose to go light with more reps? If so, what's the rep range?

Cutting is more about a reduction in calories/diet adjustment and adding endurance training in to try and burn off some of the excess fat/water weight. You can jump up a few reps to work on hypertrophy, but you'll still want to go heavy.

I'd stay in the 6-10 rep range for your bigger muscles (pecs, shoulders, upper legs; the lighter the weight the more reps) and 10-12 for your smaller muscles (isolation exercises on the triceps and biceps, calves). Then, throw in 2-3 days a week a brutal conditioning session (800m sprints, barbell complexes, prowler work). Others may chime in, but this worked for me last Spring.

Diatribe1974 · Mar 17, 2012

Are there any good youtube channels for folks that're building strength? There's tons out there for building bulk, but little consistency for the strength aspect over size aspect.

despire · Mar 17, 2012

I know this probably gets asked a lot but any suggestions for good calorie numbers to aim at while doing SS? There's something in the OP and it gives me little more than 3000kcal but for example Rip says 4000 minimum, 6000 better.

What numbers have you been succesful with? I'm 6 foot and weigh about 159lbs (183cm and 72 kilos.). Not afraid to put little fat on if it gives me muscles too

Timedog · Mar 17, 2012

Yeah! Hit 200 on bench today for reps.

Now I'm squatting 65 lbs less than what I bench

.

Para bailar La Bomba · Mar 17, 2012

MjFrancis said:
Al Kavadlo's Raising the Bar ebook is out as of yesterday.

http://www.dragondoor.com/eb63/?apid=4e8cb1ea167b0

When I get the opportunity to purchase the book in print I'll be anxious to see what improvements he's made to his tutorials and methodology.

Been reading some of this book. Amazing, amazing shit. Been trying out some of the techniques over the last 3 days, and I have say, it was totally worth every penny.

Timedog · Mar 17, 2012

I think I maybe figured out what was causing my knees to feel weird in squats.

I think I have to do a wider stance. If I go shoulder length or slightly wider I like....cannot go into the last couple of inches of a parallel or deeper squat without rolling my weight onto my toes. Not even with only the bar and no weights. I'll try again with just the bar next time I do squats, but I don't think I can physically do this squat without rolling weight onto my toes from my heels:

I'm 6'6", I don't know if that has anything to do with it. When my weight is on my toes that's when I feel pressure in my knees. As well as doing a wider stance, pointing my toes/knees more outward seems to be best. Using hip drive helps me not roll forward during the standing part of the motion. Now I think my squat looks something like this:

Feet are about that distance, but since I'm much taller they're a shorter relative distance apart. Anyways, is that bad squat form and do i just need to work on this a bunch more?

Revoh · Mar 17, 2012

I finished my first month of SS. Gained a little bit of weight and my lifts went up nicely without problems.

This week (5th week of SS) I felt like shit all week long, I'm sleepy all the time, feeling off before even going to the gym. All my lifts dropped by like 50%.

I didn't change one thing from last month, I'm sleeping well, don't have any stress, nothing.
I wasn't really counting calories the month before but I'm sure I was eating enough.
Does the fact that reaching about bw Squat and DL more than bw (I started with the bar!) makes your body need more calories than when I started?

I bought a kitchen scale and I'm going to track my calories starting today.

RumblingRosco · Mar 17, 2012

404Ender said:
What kind of oil do you use to coat the steak? Isn't 500 degrees way above most oils' smoke points?

I meant to mention that, but this time all I had on hand was olive oil unfortunately, so yeah, caused a bit of a smoke storm, but generally I like safflower oil.

kylej · Mar 17, 2012

rodrigoviola said:
I finished my first month of SS. Gained a little bit of weight and my lifts went up nicely without problems.

This week (5th week of SS) I felt like shit all week long, I'm sleepy all the time, feeling off before even going to the gym. All my lifts dropped by like 50%.

I didn't change one thing from last month, I'm sleeping well, don't have any stress, nothing.
I wasn't really counting calories the month before but I'm sure I was eating enough.
Does the fact that reaching about bw Squat and DL more than bw (I started with the bar!) makes your body need more calories than when I started?

I bought a kitchen scale and I'm going to track my calories starting today.

You're still in newbie gains mode. You don't need to worry about bulking and scales and calories unless you're trying to stay super lean right now. Pretty much whatever you do is going to put muscle and and shred some fat off. Keep lifting heavy and eat, that's all I would worry about right now.

Mecha_Infantry · Mar 17, 2012

I know there are hundreds of these videos and World Star Hip Hop is frowned upon on this site, but for those who are trying to do muscles, watch this video and be inspired/jealous!

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh9bD29ud5UU2WReix

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