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Filter · Mar 23, 2017

I kind of agree with him.
There are quite a few characters in the game, and each one has loads of different ornaments and colours and patterns etc.
you pick a few favourite characters to get good at, and as you level up you unlock bits and bobs in a way that keeps you mildly interested in making your character look slightly different.

I'm pretty sure you'd only be outraged by this if you didn't actually play the game. Who the hell would want to unlock every stupid hat for every character? Get a grip.
"I wanted every stupid hat for every character without spending any time playing the game, so I had to spend thousands of dollars!"

Edit: I should add that I think that only cosmetic items and new characters should be purchasable with real money. Upgraded equipment being for sale is no good for an even playing field.
This is slightly mitigated for me in this game as stats aren't affected by gear in the 1v1 and 2v2 modes, which are the modes I bought it for. But still... it really is bad form for a competitive fighting game (which I think for honor is)

Teeth · Mar 23, 2017

FatalT said:
So you paid $60 for a game and you're a-okay with not being able to get everything? Okay.

Imagine For Honor came out with zero cosmetic items and no microtransactions. All of the characters just had their default skins with some minor colour variations to tell mirror matches apart. Straight up fighting-game-style, circa 1997. Still charged $60. Advertised that there were absolutely no microtransactions.

Would it be a better game?

xrnzaaas · Mar 23, 2017

People refusing to see a problem here probably don't realize that publishers constantly keep pushing the limits of what's acceptable in convincing the customers to spend extra money on their games. Even now in a lot of AAA games "free" clothes and gear look bad and the coolest items are hidden behind a paywall, loot boxes, pre-order bonuses or an enormous grind.

Arttemis · Mar 23, 2017

The OP should have stated that there's already OVER $700 worth of microtransactions and the game hasn't even released its first character expansions.

Personally, I'm barely fazed by the aesthetics... It's the absolutely broken gear stat system that has ruined the game. Fucking garbage Revenge Gain stats, and Debuff Resistance breaks combat by altering hit recovery timing.

Game was a REALLY cool concept, but fucking hell, I hate their microtransaction-supported gear design that wrecked balance.

7DollarHagane · Mar 23, 2017

Skux said:
Well he's got a point.

You could buy everything in a game like League of Legends and spend tens of thousands of dollars.

No one at Riot expects anyone to do that.

Problem is console gamers are totally foreign to this idea. Overwatch is the same.. or counter strike go. Many of the most popular games have cosmetic add ons that are too numerous for anyone to unlock "everything".

If you want to "unlock everything" go play a Tony hawk game. That is not the objective or intent of many modern games.

Audioboxer · Mar 23, 2017

Arttemis said:
The OP should have started that there's already OVER $700 worth of microtransactions and the game hasn't even released its first character expansions.

Personally, I'm barely fazed by the aesthetics... It's the absolutely broken gear stat system that has ruined the game. Fucking garbage Revenge Gain stats, and Debuff Resistance breaks combat by altering hit recovery timing.

Game was a REALLY cool concept, but fucking hell, I hate their microtransaction-supported gear design that wrecked balance.

Fucking hell.

And this is a paid for game.

GG Ubisoft.

7DollarHagane · Mar 23, 2017

Teeth said:
Imagine For Honor came out with zero cosmetic items and no microtransactions. All of the characters just had their default skins with some minor colour variations to tell mirror matches apart. Straight up fighting-game-style, circa 1997. Still charged $60. Advertised that there were absolutely no microtransactions.

Would it be a better game?

This is a great point. Complaining about the microtransctions as if unlocking everything would make the game better.

For honor is kind of a shit game but it's not because you have to pay money to "look cool" in it.

This is the kind of topic where I'm convinced it's mostly people who like to get angry or upset about things for no good reason or without thinking.

Costia · Mar 23, 2017

For reference, how much will it cost to unlock everything in Overwatch?

Audioboxer · Mar 23, 2017

Costia said:
For reference, how much will it cost to unlock everything in Overwatch?

If it's still all RNG then essentially anything... <3 RNG MTs in paid games.

7DollarHagane · Mar 23, 2017

Audioboxer said:
Fucking hell.

And this is a paid for game.

GG Ubisoft.

You think that's bad? It will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to "unlock" all the weapon skins in counter strike!!! And their loot boxes cost $2.50 for a single skin!!! ARRRAGHGGGG

Audioboxer · Mar 23, 2017

7DollarHagane said:
You think that's bad? It will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to "unlock" all the weapon skins in counter strike!!! And their loot boxes cost $2.50 for a single skin!!! ARRRAGHGGGG

Yeah, I know how bad CS and Valve are. Enough controversy around the CS gambling.

FatalT · Mar 23, 2017

Teeth said:
Imagine For Honor came out with zero cosmetic items and no microtransactions. All of the characters just had their default skins with some minor colour variations to tell mirror matches apart. Straight up fighting-game-style, circa 1997. Still charged $60. Advertised that there were absolutely no microtransactions.

Would it be a better game?

Fuck yes. Introduce the p2w later when the game is failing

Murkas · Mar 23, 2017

This is even more shitty because the cosmetics practically look the same. You can hardly tell. How about a cowboy hat or a rubber nose or something.

The Jackdog · Mar 23, 2017

benzopil said:
Everyone overreacted, what a surprise.

What's the point of playing if you unlock everything easily within first hours.

okay does it have to take 3 years?

llehuty · Mar 23, 2017

Costia said:
For reference, how much will it cost to unlock everything in Overwatch?

Ooop. never played the game, but curious about what people has to say to this.

Vincent Grayson · Mar 23, 2017

llehuty said:
Ooop. never played the game, but curious about what people has to say to this.

As others have said: it's 100% cosmetic, but also RNG, so there's not really an easy way to answer that question.

feint_ruled · Mar 23, 2017

2hrs a day for 2 years sounds actually not out of the range of possibility, right? I mean, you look at time spent for some LoL or WoW players and it's 10,000s of hours.

Apathy · Mar 23, 2017

The wow comparison is dumb considering there are people who have been playing from the start and are completionists and do have everything unlocked/all achievements.

sixteen-bit · Mar 23, 2017

someone will take that as a challenge and unlock everything

Servbot24 · Mar 23, 2017

bombshell said:
Title is everything that is wrong with (most of) today's AAA games in one sentence.

Why? It seems strange to me the players would be expected to get every single thing in a game.

I remember the days when it was special if you even were able to make it to the credits.

quesalupa · Mar 23, 2017

It's almost like development costs are more expensive than when the $60 price tag was introduced.

Krauser Kat · Mar 23, 2017

I like this. Forces you to specialize.

D1renegade · Mar 23, 2017

HighResTomato said:
So glad I didn't buy For Honor, fuck Ubisoft and their MT ridden trash.

Selling people games and then say "We didn't intent for you to experience the whole game".

Lol... You can experience the full game without buying every cosmetic. The micro transactions aren't a big deal at all. I know everybody loves to hate on Ubi, but let's try to find a good reason. Attack them on the matchmaking and character balance issues, not this.

GuitarAtomik · Mar 23, 2017

benzopil said:
Everyone overreacted, what a surprise.

What's the point of playing if you unlock everything easily within first hours.

I don't know why people keep presenting the alternative to the current situation as people wanting everything unlocked in "a few hours". There is an in between that people complaining would be happy with.

HighResTomato · Mar 23, 2017

D1renegade said:
Lol... You can experience the full game without buying every cosmetic. The micro transactions aren't a big deal at all. I know everybody loves to hate on Ubi, but let's try to find a good reason. Attack them on the matchmaking and character balance issues, not this.

Why are people talking as if this is cosmetic DLC. It's PART of the game they charged $60 for.

If Ubi wants to add cosmetic DLC like this outside of the base game, more power too them. But balancing the core game in a way that will drive people to pay extra for what was included on the disc is fucking bullshit.

D1renegade · Mar 23, 2017

The Jackdog said:
okay does it have to take 3 years?

Maybe? I'm pretty sure I've seen some people on this forum say they've stopped playing MP games because they've fully leveled up and unlocked everything.

I play solely because of the fun, but I believe there are others that need to be enticed with unlockables and loot.

Chuck the Bean · Mar 23, 2017

I don't feel cheated by this system. for 70$, I feel like the base game with the campaign is worth the purchase.

I like the game mechanics and the cosmetic stuff is a "bonus" to me. I unlocked the mythic for my Nobushi only by PLAYING the game I enjoy.

Remember kids: video games are meant to be played fo fun first.

I also agree that Ubi are not responsible for protecting people from themsleves. if people want to spend more on MT then why should they pass on extra revenues only for the props of being a "good" company? they need the money to fund the studios so we can have more games... no money = no games...

stop complaining about it and play the game if you like it. Leave if you don't.

BigEmil · Mar 23, 2017

Obligatory:

https://youtu.be/fY5L95BOQTg

Gbraga · Mar 23, 2017

The good thing is that it pushes more people to the actually good modes, 1v1 and 2v2, where there are no gear stats

I didn't buy anything with in-game money for the Orochi yet, saving up for the Warden fire taunt, because it looks like something that would make people salty. My "build" is completely unoptimized because I can just equip my character with things that look cool.

And the modes are just better to play because of no dumb builds that break the balance.

Come to 1v1 and 2v2, guys, you'll never look back!

Keasar · Mar 23, 2017

benzopil said:
You can play a fun game in 1v1 and 2v2 -- overpowered gear is not available there. When you unlock cool stuff, you can try 4v4.

....

So to play the fun mode I got For Honor for, 4v4 with 3 friends, I have to grind a duel or brawl mode for several hours trying to get geared up so that I am barely competitive in the actual mode I wanna play? And god forbid then I wanna try a new character, then I have to do that all over again.

Fucking Amazing Game Design!!!!!!

Gbraga · Mar 23, 2017

Keasar said:
....

So to play the fun mode I got For Honor for, 4v4 with 3 friends, I have to grind a duel or brawl mode for several hours trying to get geared up so that I am barely competitive in the actual mode I wanna play? And god forbid then I wanna try a new character, then I have to do that all over again.

Fucking Amazing Game Design!!!!!!

You don't have to, actually, it's just more fun, since you'll never run into high level people at low levels.

The way it works, you can't just put $1000 and get your character to max gear level the moment you start. The gear you get is relative to your character's level, so it's a waste to invest either real money or in-game money into gear before leveling up your character a bit.

It's much quicker to level up in the 4v4 modes, too.

rhandino · Mar 23, 2017

That is actually a reasonable response.

Its like in Dead or Alive that has TONS of DLC but you are not expected to buy everything for everyone.

GuitarAtomik · Mar 23, 2017

Personally, I didn't think the issue is so much that you're not supposed to get everything, it's that it takes so long to get anything.

Keasar · Mar 23, 2017

Gbraga said:
You don't have to, actually, it's just more fun, since you'll never run into high level people at low levels.

The way it works, you can't just put $1000 and get your character to max gear level the moment you start. The gear you get is relative to your character's level, so it's a waste to invest either real money or in-game money into gear before leveling up your character a bit.

It's much quicker to level up in the 4v4 modes, too.

The problem is still that there even IS levelling and stat changing gear with heavily unbalanced stats in a competitive fighting game. It is one of the most unbalanced and poorly thought out multiplayer games, bringing my back to the days of the worst of MMO PVP where gear was 90% of the game. It is poor design that should never exist. A new player who comes onto the scene, no matter who he meets, should be on the same playing field. Fighting games would be awful if a guy could claim he was Rank 100 with Sol Badguy in Guilty Gear and therefore he starts with 200% HP over the other player who is rank 35 with Ditzy and gets a 2% increase in attack range, just have to "git gud".

GuitarAtomik said:
Personally, I didn't think the issue is so much that you're not supposed to get everything, it's that it takes so long to get anything. Also the "everything" part would make more sense if there was a shit ton of cosmetic stuff in it like a MMO or a moba, but there really isn't.

And this.

Fine. It can take a long time to get everything, but let me at least get SOMETHING in a reasonable time. They always claim "Oh, you can get anything here with free playtime." but the item cost is always so high for a cosmetic item that it requires hundred matches or more to earn that item. And time is not "free", it takes time from something else I could be doing, all it does in the end is nag my psyché that if I really want it before I get bored, I probably should just buy the fucking helmet/skin/whatever.

Giftofgab24 · Mar 23, 2017

Darkstorne said:
Out of curiosity, why are people jumping so hard on For Honor for being a buy to play game with cosmetic unlocks that can be purchased with real world currency, and not the countless other games available that do the same thing? Overwatch, Call of Duty, Battlefield etc, all have similar systems in place. In many ways I consider For Honor BETTER for not having the cosmetics delivered in loot crates. At least you definitely get the cosmetic you want every single time in this game.

Is this simply a bandwagon scenario that has led to For Honor taking the brunt of this backlash over other games, or is there genuinely a good argument (which I've yet to see) for why this game's implementation of cosmetic unlocks is any worse than any other buy to play MP focused game?

I think it's more based on the fact that it would take a couple of years of playing an hour a day to unlock everything. I agree though.....even if you account for that it's still impossible to tell how long it would take for something like overwatch that uses an RNG system and has exclusive seasonal items. Blizzard generally makes incredible games so there's a bit of a double standard at play. I find it kinda funny that Activision is almost universally disliked while blizzard is universally loved. Sure, there's autonomy between the two divisions, but ultimately they answer to the same
Board of directors.

Costia · Mar 23, 2017

Vincent Grayson said:
As others have said: it's 100% cosmetic, but also RNG, so there's not really an easy way to answer that question.

Looks like someone made a simulation

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/to...n-overwatch-to-get-all-cosmetic-collectibles/
It will require ~900 loot boxes.
Each box is 2$
So around 1800$

Gbraga · Mar 23, 2017

Keasar said:
The problem is still that there even IS levelling and stat changing gear with heavily unbalanced stats in a competitive fighting game. It is one of the most unbalanced and poorly thought out multiplayer games, bringing my back to the days of the worst of MMO PVP where gear was 90% of the game. It is poor design that should never exist. A new player who comes onto the scene, no matter who he meets, should be on the same playing field. Fighting games would be awful if a guy could claim he was Rank 100 with Sol Badguy in Guilty Gear and therefore he starts with 200% HP over the other player who is rank 35 with Ditzy and gets a 2% increase in attack range, just have to "git gud".

I agree, but the example was flawed, so I corrected it.

I also think it's a bit of a unique situation. Your Guilty Gear comparison doesn't really work because there are modes equivalent to the Guilty Gear situation.

It's not excusable, and the 4v4 are still shit because of the gear stats, but it's not comparable to something that would leave no other choice in the game.

If Guilty Gear had 4v4 modes with gear stats and bullshit like that, even if it didn't have microtransactions involved, people would just ignore it as the shit mode it is.

I think the issue is more that there is real money involved than the modes themselves. If 4v4 is trash but 2v2 and 1v1 are fun, I'll just play these modes instead. Even if I would really enjoy Elimination and Dominion modes with no Gear Stats.

wildfire · Mar 23, 2017

Vincent Grayson said:
Presumably, the point is playing a fun game. If a game can't stand on its own, and the only thing keeping players interested is the psychological effect of carrot and stick bullshit and/or minor progression, then it isn't a very good game in the first place.

I mean shit, do you guys remember when FPS games didn't have "unlocks"? Pro-tip: we still played the good ones for years and years.

It is a fun game.

It does this in spite of the MT system but it still is fundamentally a very fun game.

Norwegian_Imposter · Mar 23, 2017

I'm personally loving the game, the MT being cosmetic mainly with gear being unlocked through gameplay is totally fine with me. I much MUCH hate the lootbox stuff that overwatch and BF1 has. If you pay for a box the randomness of that makes its much more exploitive.

Graciaus · Mar 23, 2017

benzopil said:
Everyone overreacted, what a surprise.

What's the point of playing if you unlock everything easily within first hours.

You know back before every game had an unlock system I played almost 10,000 matches of Halo 3 for no reason other than I loved it. I came back every day for years because I had fun. Not because I needed to level up or unlock the next thing.

SmokedMeat · Mar 23, 2017

This just sounds like a mountain being made out of a molehill.

Gxgear · Mar 23, 2017

All I know is there's no worse feeling than going into a 4v4 game and getting matched up again a team of maxed gear characters.

Gtagentleman · Mar 23, 2017

bombshell said:
Title is everything that is wrong with (most of) today's AAA games in one sentence.

this post gets it

Peroroncino · Mar 23, 2017

lol... it only lacks 'unless you're willing to pay' at the end of that sentence.

I'm glad I didn't buy this, P2P was bad enough, but this microtransaction bullshit is getting out of hand in a fully priced games.

Codeblue · Mar 23, 2017

Is this all cosmetics?

SoCoRoBo · Mar 23, 2017

Mainly think this is fine. Easily have enough steel to deck out my main. Much more concerned with the gameplay balance within the $60 game I actually paid for, legendary gear ruins things in certain modes.

danmaku · Mar 23, 2017

7DollarHagane said:
Problem is console gamers are totally foreign to this idea. Overwatch is the same.. or counter strike go. Many of the most popular games have cosmetic add ons that are too numerous for anyone to unlock "everything".

If you want to "unlock everything" go play a Tony hawk game. That is not the objective or intent of many modern games.

I'd say it's more a "single player" mentality. Gotta reach that 100% completion!

witchedwiz · Mar 23, 2017

benzopil said:
Everyone overreacted, what a surprise.

What's the point of playing if you unlock everything easily within first hours.

don't be a tool benzopil..
there's a defined difference between being able to unlock everything withing the first hours and it taking over a year...........

SmokedMeat · Mar 23, 2017

danmaku said:
I'd say it's more a "single player" mentality. Gotta reach that 100% completion!

But there's plenty of games out there where that's just not going to happen.

ozz ex machina · Mar 23, 2017

witchedwiz said:
don't be a tool benzopil..
there's a defined difference between being able to unlock everything withing the first hours and it taking over a year...........

As long as the unlocks have no impact to the gameplay, I couldn't give a shit if it takes more than a year to unlock everything with ingame currency.

Can someone confirm if these unlocks are purely superficial or if the gear has stats related to them that impacts the competitive integrity? If it's the former, then I really don't see a problem at all. If people are stupid enough to pay loads of a skin, then good on ubisoft. If people aren't happy with the price then don't buy it. These completionists need to get over themselves. If stuff likes this helps the game have a longer healthy lifespan as a service (see CS:GO) then I'm all for it.

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