Darkstorne
Member
Yep, the LoL and Dota2 comparisons should instead be Overwatch and CoD/Battlefield comparisons.
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Ubisoft on For Honor MT "We never had intention for you to unlock everything."
- Thread starter Rymuth
- Start date
Yep, the LoL and Dota2 comparisons should instead be Overwatch and CoD/Battlefield comparisons.
wapplew
Member
No saying the game is pay to win, just the unlock-able take too much time.
I play 2 week constantly just barely able to buy Nabushi legendary costume and that's with me not spending on anything else like level up gears.
This make me hesitate to change character, which lead to getting bored and give up.
Slow progression is hurting the game, IMO.
Fbh
Member
Still don't see this as that catastrophic. I have played my good share of Mobas and other multiplayer games with cosmetic microtransactions and never felt like I need to unlock everything, nor have I ever played with someone that wants to unlock everything. You pick some favorite characters and some of the cosmetic stuff you like and focus on getting that.
Also, from what I understand you can at least pay for specific stuff you want, right? I'd still put that above all those game with random loot crates.... Or above ND that let you buy new weapons and powers
Also, from what I understand you can at least pay for specific stuff you want, right? I'd still put that above all those game with random loot crates.... Or above ND that let you buy new weapons and powers
Darkstorne
Member
Then it sounds like you don't actually enjoy the game. If cosmetics are the only thing keeping you interested, to the point that trying a new character sounds "boring" to you, then maybe it's time to find a game that you enjoy actually playing.
I love playing the game, adore the combat, and have zero problems with cosmetic progression. I get my enjoyment from the game itself.
EDIT: Also keep in mind that the Nobushi outfit you saved up for over two weeks is the ultimate "end-game" cosmetic. It's supposed to take a lot longer than the other items, and symbolize your love for that character over the others. Most cosmetics can be bought after a few days of casual play.
Yeah, and no one complains about Overwatch for having a very similar system (arguably even worse when you consider the gambling-like nature of loot boxes).
But the game has more content than the free League of Legends has. If that content isn't worth $60 to someone then they can pass on the game but it certainly felt like enough to me.
I guess I don't understand the obsession of obtaining every single piece of cosmetic gear in a game. Cosmetics don't really do that much for me.
The thing about For Honor's unlocks are that none of the cosmetic stuff looks good, yet they charge a lot of money for what is essentially the same thing you're already wearing but in equally boring colours. By far the laziest cosmetic designs I've seen in a AAA game that wants you to pay money to unlock. At least the skins in say League of Legends look good/unique/different.
Look at IGN's "For Honor's high-level gear looks insane" video for truly laughable cosmetic designs. I had a long hard head scratch over why I'd want to pay money to acquire them when they look almost the same as your starting gear.
Look at IGN's "For Honor's high-level gear looks insane" video for truly laughable cosmetic designs. I had a long hard head scratch over why I'd want to pay money to acquire them when they look almost the same as your starting gear.
Darkstorne
Member
Exactly. It's fine for people to disagree with the system in general, but I don't like the blind hatred aimed at For Honor, as though no other game has done this before and, if anything, been loved for it.
Turin Turambar
Member
Shhh, they will notice how the comparison doesn't work!
If anything, the only thing Overwatch has done differently is to successfully obfuscate the amount of real time or money required to purchse its cosmetics.
Callibretto
Member
Isn't it kinda normal for games as service type games?
RecRoulette
Member
As someone who loves Infinite Warfare's multiplayer, Call of Duty is the absolute worst in this by far. They mix cosmetic stuff in with stuff that affects gameplay. And there's so much trash in there that it's pretty easy to spend money and get nothing you actually want.
Edit: Also like you mentioned, taking the randomization out is a huge plus to For Honor, but partly why this discussion is happening right now. With games like Overwatch, you can't put a definite price tag on it.
Isn't it impossible to get everything now anyways? Aren't some of the skins tied to special events (summer, halloween, winter)?
SirPinkyNose
Member
They could have word it differently.
But they said this instead.
Stupid Ubisoft.
But they said this instead.
Stupid Ubisoft.
wapplew
Member
Nah, I only have problem with gear progression. Cosmetic is fine, better than fine since they are not randomize loot box, a little expensive tho.
Gear progression is what make me stop unlock for other character. I have to grind renown, then steel to level up, it's a lot of grinding until I get the build I want.
Again, nothing massive, just feel the progression is a little too slow. Just don't want to AFK in 4v4 AI to farm steel.
Normal =/= Right.
(Specifically these types of games I'm referencing)
See you've got two types of game devs/publishers/owners.
1: Make a good game, open it up for all, add some social flair buyables and stuff.
2: Make a good game, lock more of it down than you paid for behind endless grind or paywalls.
Lately, what kind of games actually did better? In the grander scheme.
I'm tired of higher ups thinking they actually know whats better for the player, they're just defending it because money. Yup, they are a business and that's their primary concern but to actually come out and defend it, like that?
To top it all off "We just expect them to buy the items they want right away".
Yeah no.
Good game in itself, ruined by this.
See you've got two types of game devs/publishers/owners.
1: Make a good game, open it up for all, add some social flair buyables and stuff.
2: Make a good game, lock more of it down than you paid for behind endless grind or paywalls.
Lately, what kind of games actually did better? In the grander scheme.
I'm tired of higher ups thinking they actually know whats better for the player, they're just defending it because money. Yup, they are a business and that's their primary concern but to actually come out and defend it, like that?
To top it all off "We just expect them to buy the items they want right away".
Yeah no.
Good game in itself, ruined by this.
Vincent Grayson
Member
By being *only* cosmetics, they avoid a lot of the criticism though. Like, I don't care that it works the way it does now, but if crates in OW had *any* impact on your character or performance as a player, I would take issue with it.
Darkstorne
Member
That's a really good point, and probably does explain why this is happening. Without knowing the odds on gamble crates it's impossible to find an accurate price, and until governments step up and label this practice as gambling (only China has done that so far) devs are under no pressure to disclose those odds. So even though For Honor is being immensely more consumer-friendly in their method than most other buy to play MP games that do something similar, it's taking most of the heat that really should be directed elsewhere.
I feel like a lot of that is perceived, and not really required. And I'll bet that if gear stats were rebalanced to ensure positive stat gains equalled the losses instead of outweighing them (so you're just re-allocating stats with gear) then people would feel like they're "left behind" a lot less. In reality gear makes very little impact on player skill and I've learned that players with practically zero gear score who aren't even rep 1 on a character can just as often be more of a challenge than gold gear opponents.
I spend most of my time in duels and brawls where gear score counts for nothing anyway and player skill is the only factor, so I'm sure I feel that "pressure" to gear up less than most people though.
Since you buy the items you want rather than relying on loot crates like Overwatch/Rocket League, this seems fine for cosmetics.
Gear upgrades should have been a seperate system though. Giving better players better stats is the dumbest thing in any game, let alone one that wants to be competitive (and yes I know it only affects 4v4).
Gear upgrades should have been a seperate system though. Giving better players better stats is the dumbest thing in any game, let alone one that wants to be competitive (and yes I know it only affects 4v4).
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I feel like very few people have played the game in this thread, considering so many think the MTs are just cosmetics. In two out of 5 modes, the cosmetic items have stats attached to them, and after sitting out the game for like two weeks, it's frustrating to try to compete with people who have a much higher item level in those two modes.
The flaw isn't the MTs for me, it's the balance of these items or even just the existence of them.
The flaw isn't the MTs for me, it's the balance of these items or even just the existence of them.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Is fhis about cosmetics?
It it is you could make the same argument for almost every game nowadays
EDIT: Thanks to the above poster
It it is you could make the same argument for almost every game nowadays
EDIT: Thanks to the above poster
Ubisoft makes EA look like
I avoid all ubisoft games these days.
Mother Teresa is hardly a good comparison.
Basically this.
I believe part of it's success is ease of access, all MP games should be easy to get in to.
You shouldn't have to worry about stuff that impacts your gameplay from stat loot boxes, salvaging, crafting, RNG bullshit.
Everyone gets to play everything when they want, as it should be; in a time where people honestly believe you shouldn't after handing over your money it's a breath of fresh air.
I can stop playing for 3 months and come back without feeling like I have to go back to a grind. I bet this retains players better too.
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
Is this any different than Overwatch? You're never gonna unlock everything unless you pay a ton of money or play for a million hours. And you probably don't want everything either.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Darkstorne
Member
The complaints about pricing and time requirements to unlock everything are indeed 100% about cosmetics. You can also buy packs of gear in this game that provide stat bonuses, but not only do you get those for free at the end of matches anyway, but the packs are insanely cheap compared to the cosmetics being questioned and the gear levels are tied to your character level, so it's pretty much impossible to buy yourself an advantage.
It is different, overwatch is only skins/sprays/social stuff.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Uh? I go into matchmaking at an item level 5 and get matched with dudes who have an item level of 100.
Darkstorne
Member
That's a matchmaking issue, and I hate it. If you have a low rep level character then it doesn't matter how much money you spend on gear - you will never get high level items. Gear drops from both match rewards and crates are tied to your rep level, so you won't get high level gear without putting in the time to level up your character.
Weltall Zero
Member
That they never expected anyone to buy everything is pretty damn obvious, and indeed that's exactly the MOBA model. However they seem to be missing the small detail that MOBAs are free to play and their game isn't. This is pretty clearly a case of having their cake and eating it.
Ubisoft makes EA look like
I avoid all ubisoft games these days.
So you're saying it makes EA to be thought of as kindly and innocent but is actually still a monster?
In Service
Member
This was my point. It's one thing to say that you aren't meant to unlock everything - and I'm fine with that. However, it's another if the pacing is wrong.
And I don't mean the time it takes you to unlock everything. I mean the time it takes to unlock incremental stages of your gear/costumes etc in any game, to keep you coming back.
Overwatch does a good job of randomising costumes vrs being able to save up for the ones you want. i.e. even if it's taking you ages to save up you can still get valuable rewards playing for chests while you're waiting.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Yo
How you just going to admit that your reward system is inot compelling or balanced on purpose
Lmao
How you just going to admit that your reward system is inot compelling or balanced on purpose
Lmao
What? For people that play ARTSs/MOBAs it's normal to play as every character. I can play with every DOTA hero with no problems. Twelve is ~10% of all the Heroes and Champions found in DOTA and LoL.
I think the notion of unlocking everything is archaic and the same logic does not apply to competitive/service games. You pay the $60 to be able to play the game, it's a buy-in to the service, then the rest is as you play (or with MT). It's not about what content is on the disk. It doesn't matter what emotes or gear is on the disk, there's too much of it and that's not the purpose of the game. Would you rather have the disk contain no gear or emote and they're added in a day 1 patch, or over several patches in the first few weeks as players progress?
As far as the casual player is concerned, does it matter if someone has better gear than you because they played more or because they paid more? Either way they have better gear.
Dark_3nergy
Member
In a industry where you get a PlayStation 4 / Xbox 1 achievements -just- for playing 5 minutes of a game, this PR is pretty backwards.
I think what the Ubi dude said is completely fine. They don't intend for you to unlock everything for every character, heck, they don't even intend for you to unlock everything for your favorite character. I certainly don't feel compelled to unlock everything for my main, most ornaments for instance look really dumb. Personally I just bought executions and emotes. As for gear you never need to buy that because it's tied to your level i.e the higher your level the better gear you'll find after matches. Even if you were to buy gear if your level is low even your bought gear will be low level. And besides, they are looking into rebalancing the gear so that the difference between 0 and max is less pronounced.
The only thing I worry about is how much steel new characters are going to cost. Hopefully not a crazy amount. Saving my steel for those atm.
The only thing I worry about is how much steel new characters are going to cost. Hopefully not a crazy amount. Saving my steel for those atm.
L4DANathan
Member
"Hey, completionists. Go fuck yourselves, you're playing games wrong."
- Ubisoft PR
- Ubisoft PR
Daffy Duck
Member
They probably give up and walk away to something else when they realise they don't stand a chance.
Better looking cosmetics is no issue for me, but if they have better equipment/armour/weapons which I don't have things become unfair and IMHO wrong.
SafeinSound
Member
Don't understand why people continue to support this company.
So you paid $60 for a game and you're a-okay with not being able to get everything? Okay.
Interfectum
Member
So if I spend $60 on LoL should I be entitled to everything then?