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Framing Megan Fox: Lindsay Ellis on Feminist Theory and Transformers
- Thread starter JCHandsom
- Start date
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Age of Extinction is a magical movie. lol
Yep
Yeah, Lindsay talks about it in a different part.
Of course, Bay is the one who decided to ignore how she was written in the script and packaged her as a "pin-up girl to get your dick hard" and then charged admission for it. It would be great if the Transformers movies were something else entirely, but they're not. I guess it's just kind of an interesting situation to me. Can you blame the people who bought what they were sold?
Even as a comment on this video, which seems out of place, I just don't know. Bay is a piece of shit and should be criticized for his work, but Fox signed on to be exploited in exchange for money (at least initially, I don't know if her opinion on this changed over time). In regards to Fox specifically, would she agree with our position? Or would she rather keep HarryKS's dick hard and collect his money? Who would Fox be more appreciative of?
I kind of see it as two entirely different things. Bay sold us a lemon, but Fox is the lemon (or at least part of it).
Do you have a link for that? Because this is breaking my mind right now. There has to be more to it than the "joke" right?
On mobile right now, so no link, but it's in episode 6, which is part 2 in her analysis of Transformers through the lens of feminist theory, titled "The Male Gaze vs. The Men".
The point of the card is that it is a common trope in Hollywood films to have a father figure face off against a boyfriend in competition over who "gets" the daughter/girlfriend, just with added creep factor.
It's a way of treating the female character as an object to be fought over so that the male characters get some of good old dramatic conflict.
https://youtu.be/oNkTeHpHj_I?t=306
It's that classic dynamic of father figure not approving the boyfriend the daughter is dating taken to the extreme when the boyfriend pulls out that card to the father as a justification to continue to bang his daughter.
Warm Machine
Member
It is because her framing is from the perspective of Sam's character. She is supposed to unapproachably attractive to give him a huge deficit of confidence and power.
Tetsujin_MK
Member
Didn't they develop it?
That's probably what happened, he stopped tweeting as well.
They are credited as executive producers. This means fuck all, especially with animated shows. Joss Whedon is credited as Executive Producer for Avengers Assemble. Doesn't mean he's ever looked over a script for Disney XD.
Prime was tossed off by disinterested higher ups to some female writers where they developed it into what it was.
Hey, ya gotta give credit where credit is due. As Lindsay pointed out, Mikaela in Bayformers 1 was written competently, but then Bay went a ruined her. Kurtzman & Orci were the ones who wrote her. K&O were big fans of the Transformers franchise and wanted to show it a lot more love than Bay was willing to allow. K&O wanted to put Soundwave and motorcycle-Arcee into Bayformers 1, but Bay rejected those two characters because he felt they weren't badass enough. K&O persisted, suggesting that Arcee could be a three-part mini-combiner, so Bay killed her onscreen in Bayformers 2 out of spite.
In Transformers Prime, K&O were freed from Michael Bay, and it might be their best work (even if they did rely on other writers), maybe even the best Transformers cartoon (Beast Wars puts that claim to the test, and by all accounts the modern comics are superior).
Just check out this meeting between K&O's rejected-by-Bay Soundwave and Arcee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWyA7I4G2E8
Characters in Transformers Prime have legitimate characters arcs, many of which are really, really good (I honestly thought Miko was a bad character at the beginning).
I still can't believe that I didn't get that until just now.
One could say that the framing wasn't exactly conductive towards learning this person's name.
Yes, I did watch the video. It had just been ages since I sae Transformers, so I was surprised how incredibly blatant Michael Bay's use of the camera was.
Michael Bay is cinematic polio.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Between these two things and as someone who hasn't seen the Transformers movies outside of all these clips, sometimes I get the feeling Lindsay is gas-lighting me and all of this nonsense is made up.
Anyway, this episode was really sad and made me feel bad for Megan Fox. I also found out via a stray tweet that she used to self-harm and have low self-esteem. Then I felt worse.
But I do think I should watch these movies... except that is like a 12 hour commitment, and I saw parts of the first one and hated it (and it's supposedly the best???)
The statutory rape thing is the most gobsmacked I've ever been in a movie. Truly a masterwork of fuckery.
I've seen the first three, and the first movie is easily the best of that trilogy. I never bothered with the Mark Wahlberg movies.
Just watch until you just don't feel like it. I abandoned these movies after the third one came out.
I can vouch for the first one being "the best" of them though.
Transformers 3 is a tough one to gauge because even now despite Sam still being terrible and the plot falling apart as usual I still don't think it's actually all that bad, but outside of a few elements (I still find the portrayal of Chicago's destruction pretty memorable, even if the events happening in that setting were not) it's thoroughly unremarkable. Is that a point in its favor or not? Is the answer to that question affected by whether you judge the movie on its own merits or compared to the other movies? I'm never quite sure.
I get that but the extra unnecessary step is still baffling. It's so surreal that seemingly everyone involved didn't think it was insane or at least Bay loved it so much to shut dissent.
Roger Ebert on Bayformers 1 (rated 3/4 stars)
Roger Ebert on Bayformers 2 (rated 1/4 stars)
I think Ebert was too kind with the first movie, although I can accept that there was something there that the other movies have been lacking. I've spent exactly zero dollars on this franchise since I was suckered into spending money on the first one, and I still feel like I've been ripped off due to the wasted hours of my life that I'll never get back.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I never did get the hate for Megan Fox or her character in Transformers. She was the only thing tolerable in the first film. This video sums up why.
Not sure why people are shocked that Sam's a shitty character. He was easily the worst thing in the movies.
Not sure why people are shocked that Sam's a shitty character. He was easily the worst thing in the movies.
I don't think anyone liked Sam just surprised how bad he actually is
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Isn't she doing condom commercials now?
Man, doing commercials seems like a step down from starring in a blockbuster franchise. Does she not have anything else in the pipeline?
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Didn't she make a comment that basically blacklisted her from movies?
The "Michael Bay is Hitler" one? I guess I didn't realize that had such an effect.
hodayathink
Member
Didn't she make that comment between Transformers 2 and TMNT (which Bay produced)? She kinda fell off (the last big thing she did was be Zooey Deschanel's replacement on The New Girl for a little bit) because once she stopped being a name she didn't have a ton of talent to fall back on to get roles.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Transformers 2 was actually the movie that got me interested in film criticism, because all my friends came out of the theater thinking it was this awesome action-filled great movie, and I came out thinking it was pure shit. And I wanted to find out why and express why my friends and I had such different reactions, and why they kept saying Its just a movie, stop taking it so seriously. Its all about the action!
From that day forward a new passion was born
From that day forward a new passion was born
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The first page of this thread is good reading.
Sometimes the usual suspects actually get caught out in the lineup.
Sometimes the usual suspects actually get caught out in the lineup.
She slowed down to have and raise her children. She has 3 of them each two years apart all coinciding with her slow years.
I remember seeing Age of Extinction with several friends at the drive through and our minds were blown that Michael Bay decided to stop the entire goddamn movie to talk about Romeo and Juliet laws for 5 minutes.
We were like "... holy fuck just make her 18 and we could have cut this entire scene, holy fucking hell Bay"
Just confirms to me some don't read the article or watch the videos
Unspeakable Evil
Member
This video is kinda one of those fandom posts that kinda changes a character is about. But this isn't bullshit and actually makes sense.
The temptation to shitpost is real and powerful.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is obvious in any thread longer than 5 posts though.
The display on this first page is much more specific in nature.
And Lindsay Ellis's work on this series should be more popular than Plinkett
She's definitely funnier
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Smarter and more insightful, too.
And *original*
I know that's a big thing here.
And *original*
I know that's a big thing here.
IIRC, it was said that Michael Bay wasn't fazed by the "Hitler" comment, because Michael Bay's a shitty person so he doesn't find it remarkable when people throw shit at him, but Steven Spielberg was upset by the comment, because he expects professionalism from the people he works with, and for some reason he has this thing about Nazis. Spielberg was supposedly the one who insisted that Bay get control over his production and "do something" about Megan Fox.
Fox got the part in TMNT after making her apologies to Bay, but having Steven Spielberg be mad at you is worse for your career than having Michael Bay be mad at you.