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Gran Turismo Sport Beta Thread

Avtomat

Member
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Can you tell us more about what the final GTS game will not have?

Damage model should be more than paint scrapes and minor denting surely?

If we are talking damage we should be talking bumpers & bonnets being ripped off, glass/plastic tail lights and windshields smashed and chasis damage that means limp back to pits and retire. Doors coming off is a bit much perhaps think that would be more destruction derby than GT.

Kaz has said they have a working one but we have seen absolutely nothing of it bar that pic. Hopefully its a bit better than that.
 
Damage in GT5 was limited across the board, even to the rally cars, where doors could come off, but it always felt really weak, like the door just came off with no denting or anything to it. I think there needs to be more crumple, even if there's nothing falling off the car.

No idea how GT6 handled it.
 
Damage in GT5 was limited across the board, even to the rally cars, where doors could come off, but it always felt really weak, like the door just came off with no denting or anything to it. I think there needs to be more crumple, even if there's nothing falling off the car.

No idea how GT6 handled it.

GT6 was only a dent bump map and scrapes. I never once saw anything actually deform the model.

This is the extent of it:
 

benzy

Member
Damage in GT5 was limited across the board, even to the rally cars, where doors could come off, but it always felt really weak, like the door just came off with no denting or anything to it. I think there needs to be more crumple, even if there's nothing falling off the car.

No idea how GT6 handled it.

GT5 had procedural deformation, which they took out in GT6. Since they've barely revealed anything new for GT Sport, not even new tracks since the unveiling, I guess there's still a chance they haven't fully revealed the damage system.

TWuZJzA.jpg
 
If we are talking damage we should be talking bumpers & bonnets being ripped off, glass/plastic tail lights and windshields smashed and chasis damage that means limp back to pits and retire. Doors coming off perhaps but think that would be more destruction derby than GT.

Kaz has said they have a working one but we have seen absolutely nothing of it bar that pic. Hopefully its a bit better than that.
If we're talking about damage because it's funny or looks cool, I have Grand Theft Auto for that. That's not why people buy Gran Turismo (clearly).

If we're talking about damage as you'd see in motorsport, as you mentioned it would almost always mean retirement. Limping back to the pits to retire isn't my idea of enjoyable gaming, but maybe that's just me. In enduros you might see loose bodywork put back on with racing tape, but that's not really that common, and it's generally only for very minor damage anyway. It might be nice to model that, but given they're not even doing dynamic time of day for enduros, modelling racing tape doesn't seem like it should be at the top of their list of priorities.

The things I would like to see addressed:
  • Sound. This is the make or break for me. There's daylight before the next point.
  • Engrossing SP content. Doesn't seem like we'll be getting it.
  • Collision physics. Going to be important for good online racing, but haven't seen it in any footage, so probably not changed much, if at all, from previous iterations.
  • Dynamic weather. Such a huge part of racing. Not sure if this is in or not.
  • Dynamic time of day. Such a huge part of endurance races like the Nurburgring or Le Mans 24 hour races. Weird that it's not in, particularly given that Kaz has raced in one of those events. Previous GT games, and current GT competitors, have it.
  • Visible damage modelling. Not really that important to me: I want to marvel at the works of art in the replays, not see semi-destroyed lumps of metal.
 

Avtomat

Member
GT5 had procedural deformation, which they took out in GT6. Since they've barely revealed anything new for GT Sport, not even new tracks since the unveiling, I guess there's still a chance they haven't fully revealed the damage system.

TWuZJzA.jpg

I quite liked it in GT5 but perhaps tone down the deformation (sometimes it looked good other times not so much in GT5) and add bits that can fall off like the spoiler/bumpers.

If we're talking about damage because it's funny or looks cool, I have Grand Theft Auto for that. That's not why people buy Gran Turismo (clearly).

If we're talking about damage as you'd see in motorsport, as you mentioned it would almost always mean retirement. Limping back to the pits to retire isn't my idea of enjoyable gaming, but maybe that's just me. In enduros you might see loose bodywork put back on with racing tape, but that's not really that common, and it's generally only for very minor damage anyway. It might be nice to model that, but given they're not even doing dynamic time of day for enduros, modelling racing tape doesn't seem like it should be at the top of their list of priorities.

The things I would like to see addressed:
  • Sound. This is the make or break for me. There's daylight before the next point.
  • Engrossing SP content. Doesn't seem like we'll be getting it.
  • Collision physics. Going to be important for good online racing, but haven't seen it in any footage, so probably not changed much, if at all, from previous iterations.
  • Dynamic weather. Such a huge part of racing. Not sure if this is in or not.
  • Dynamic time of day. Such a huge part of endurance races like the Nurburgring or Le Mans 24 hour races. Weird that it's not in, particularly given that Kaz has raced in one of those events. Previous GT games, and current GT competitors, have it.
  • Visible damage modelling. Not really that important to me: I want to marvel at the works of art in the replays, not see semi-destroyed lumps of metal.

Sorry I edited my post to make it a little clearer I dont think doors falling off and complete carnage should be in a GT game. That's what destruction derby is for, I am saying we should be a bit past bumps and scrapes. Some model deformation but perhaps stepped back a bit from GT5. Doors not looking like they fit adn a few bits that fall off bumpers/spoilers/wing mirrors. The sort of thing that would not cause a black flag in a real race.
 

Solal

Member
As long as it's an honest mistake, no on-purpose bad interpretation of info and facts and not followed by a complete refusal to be corrected... no need to "shut up".
Damage has been a confusing topic with GT games anyway.

------------------------------------
Something else I'd like to discuss:

We're talking in a little bubble here and all of you can probably drive a lot better than the average player (as shown for example when you hear that SMS had drivers at their pCARS2 event to drive for the press-people if they thought their own driving would look to bad on video).

Now in previous GT-games, you didn't need to be particularly good at driving to see it through the career, you could almost enter an event with an overpowered car or better tires than the AI. Bronze medals in license tests (when they were still mandatory to advance) weren't very hard to get.

Do you think the lack of tuning, focus on online driving (and missing driving line as well) might dissuade more casual players from buying GTS... especially at full price?
I'm not saying "bad move, PD!", it's just that I could see this game being bought by maybe 20% less people (remember GT reaches a far wider audience than Project CARS or even Forza Motorsport usually), who know they aren't very good at racing sims, just because of the no-cheating-your-way-through-this difficulty, not even because of almost mandatory PS+ or online leagues on a schedule.

I think GTS will be very hard to market... especially with PD being VERY bad at communicating. (we still don't know much although the game was supposed to be released 4 months ago...)

GT has always been a "SP centric" experience...with an archaic online mode. The shift to an online focus might be a marketing mistake that we could analyse later as "they didn't know what made GT so appealing to players".

Gt has always been about a huge collection of cars and a huge single player campaign. Getting rid of both at the same time seems very presomptuous to me. I d go as far as to say that it shows that PD still hasn't understood that other sims exist that already propose much more than what GTS will.

In a pure marketing standpoint, I feel GTS has only the GT name (and graphics) to propose ( a name already a bit tarnished by GT5 and 6...and yes, I know GT5 sold 10 millions...but GT6 did half of this number...and both got mixed reviews, well ubnder what GT used to get : GT3 got 95 on metacritic, GT4 got 89, GT5 got 84, GT6 got 81... there is a pattern here...its glory seems past)

GT might assure a solid number compared to other brands...but, graphics aside, I really don't see anything really exciting in what they have announced. Even less in what they showed.

The FIA deal is still a mystery and the competition focus will only matter to very few players.

Add to this that online games are often plagued by cheaters and wreckers, the potential of the game would be massively hit.

Honestly, from what we know, GTS looks more like a Prologue than a full GT experience to me... at full price, would people get in? I highly doubt it.
 

Sebmugi

Member
To see a gt6 screens reminds me that the photo mode has occupied me a good part of the time and that the next one on GT sport is likely to do the same ;)
By reviewing the 3D models I think it was a technical feat for the PS3 oO
 

Makki

Member
Damage model should be more than paint scrapes and minor denting surely?

If we are talking damage we should be talking bumpers & bonnets being ripped off, glass/plastic tail lights and windshields smashed and chasis damage that means limp back to pits and retire. Doors coming off is a bit much perhaps think that would be more destruction derby than GT.

Kaz has said they have a working one but we have seen absolutely nothing of it bar that pic. Hopefully its a bit better than that.

I think you are not buying this game for it's main purpose if you have the hopes of panels ripping off. I very much disagree that damage should be ripping components off, if anything I would be happier if it was mechanical damage instead related to engine, suspension or steering failures to discourage collisions, instead of rewarding players with CARNAGE YEAH.
 
I think GTS will be very hard to market... especially with PD being VERY bad at communicating. (we still don't know much although the game was supposed to be released 4 months ago...)

GT has always been a "SP centric" experience...with an archaic online mode. The shift to an online focus might be a marketing mistake that we could analyse later as "they didn't know what made GT so appealing to players".

Gt has always been about a huge collection of cars and a huge single player campaign. Getting rid of both at the same time seems very presomptuous to me. I d go as far as to say that it shows that PD still hasn't understood that other sims exist that already propose much more than what GTS will.

In a pure marketing standpoint, I feel GTS has only the GT name (and graphics) to propose ( a name already a bit tarnished by GT5 and 6...and yes, I know GT5 sold 10 millions...but GT6 did half of this number...and both got mixed reviews, well ubnder what GT used to get : GT3 got 95 on metacritic, GT4 got 99, GT5 got 84, GT6 got 81... there is a pattern here...its glory seems past)

GT might assure a solid number compared to other brands...but, graphics aside, I really don't see anything really exciting in what they have announced. Even less in what the showed.

The FIA deal is still a mystery and the competition focus will only matter to very few players.

Add to this that online games are often plagued by cheaters and wreckers, the potential of the game would be massively hit.

Honestly, from what we know, GTS looks more like a Prologue than a full GT experience to me... at full price, would people get in? I highly doubt it.

I think I agree more to the points you made than I disagree with them, but you absolutely can't forget that the PS4 only really had Project CARS and Driveclub as big titles with some marketing push behind it, Project CARS didn't drive like the average GT or Forza would want a car game to drive and Driveclub had an arcadey driving model. Both don't fill that large whole that a missing GT game leaves in the market (pCARS sold ~1 million on PS4 and Driveclub ~2 million, but both were heavily discounted after a short while, GT5's 10 million sales show how big that whole in the market is, even if 7 million or more of those are very casual racing game players).

Structure and content wise GTS will not fill that spot, but it looks super stunning (and that sells), and most importantly: people are desperate for a nice driving experience on PS4 with shiny cars that handle player friendly and believable.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
GT5 had procedural deformation, which they took out in GT6. Since they've barely revealed anything new for GT Sport, not even new tracks since the unveiling, I guess there's still a chance they haven't fully revealed the damage system.

TWuZJzA.jpg

There was definitely something to this, I really liked the idea in concept. They applied it to all the objects on the car (like headlights and the license plate like you can see in the pic) so it looked both very cool and forward thinking and ridiculous at the same time.

This is one of the things I miss most, oddly enough. It just had so much potential.
 
There was definitely something to this, I really liked the idea in concept. They applied it to all the objects on the car (like headlights and the license plate like you can see in the pic) so it looked both very cool and forward thinking and ridiculous at the same time.

This is one of the things I miss most, oddly enough. It just had so much potential.
I thought it looked laughably bad. It was a waste of time and resources. I guess PD agreed because I'm told they took it out of GT6 (which I never bought).
 
There was definitely something to this, I really liked the idea in concept. They applied it to all the objects on the car (like headlights and the license plate like you can see in the pic) so it looked both very cool and forward thinking and ridiculous at the same time.

This is one of the things I miss most, oddly enough. It just had so much potential.

please damage please, i need something
 

Melfice7

Member
Visual damage is the most overrated thing in a racing game imo

Give me decent mechanical damage and proper collision physics instead
 

DavidDesu

Member
I don't get people clamouring for this mythical Single Player content. This was never something I felt was done in a very compelling manner with previous GT games. Just a bunch of random cups that hardly was all that involving and in which most of the time you could easily cheat the game by using an over powered car. It was ALWAYS a grind. The racing itself was never all that fun.

If... IF... PD can make the online racing system compelling, if they really can filter out all the terrible players and if they can pit you against people of similar levels and have a good levelling system so you can climb up the ranks, and fundamentally if the online racing infrastructure can handle close racing... that right there is my compelling content. Fun races with real people who take the game as seriously (or not) as you do.

Much better than terrible AI that does the same thing every race and usually brakes way too early making it easy to pass them!

Maybe I'm not like everyone else, but for me I use games like GT as my Time Trial simulator. The racing in most games is pretty dull against the AI that i don't really engage with that. Make the racing good, make the online racing as easy to get into as something like Rocket League, and they could be on to a winner here!
 

Audioboxer

Member
I don't get people clamouring for this mythical Single Player content. This was never something I felt was done in a very compelling manner with previous GT games. Just a bunch of random cups that hardly was all that involving and in which most of the time you could easily cheat the game by using an over powered car. It was ALWAYS a grind. The racing itself was never all that fun.

If... IF... PD can make the online racing system compelling, if they really can filter out all the terrible players and if they can pit you against people of similar levels and have a good levelling system so you can climb up the ranks, and fundamentally if the online racing infrastructure can handle close racing... that right there is my compelling content. Fun races with real people who take the game as seriously (or not) as you do.

Much better than terrible AI that does the same thing every race and usually brakes way too early making it easy to pass them!

Maybe I'm not like everyone else, but for me I use games like GT as my Time Trial simulator. The racing in most games is pretty dull against the AI that i don't really engage with that. Make the racing good, make the online racing as easy to get into as something like Rocket League, and they could be on to a winner here!

Starting GT back in the day with hardly any money and having to buy low-tier 2nd hand cars and work your way up was a generally satisfying little meta-game.
 

cooldawn

Member
GT5 had procedural deformation, which they took out in GT6. Since they've barely revealed anything new for GT Sport, not even new tracks since the unveiling, I guess there's still a chance they haven't fully revealed the damage system.

TWuZJzA.jpg
Yeah...I liked the direction this damage system was taking too but then we had the complainers...so they removed it with a patch.

I'd like to know if the CPU in PS4 up to this type of job? I expect the SPU's in a PS3 compensated a great deal but I'm not technical enough know for sure. Just a feeling Jaguar CPU's in PS4 wouldn't be able to do it along with everything else.

In fact, would this be true for dynamic weather too?
 
I don't get people clamouring for this mythical Single Player content. This was never something I felt was done in a very compelling manner with previous GT games. Just a bunch of random cups that hardly was all that involving and in which most of the time you could easily cheat the game by using an over powered car. It was ALWAYS a grind. The racing itself was never all that fun.

If... IF... PD can make the online racing system compelling, if they really can filter out all the terrible players and if they can pit you against people of similar levels and have a good levelling system so you can climb up the ranks, and fundamentally if the online racing infrastructure can handle close racing... that right there is my compelling content. Fun races with real people who take the game as seriously (or not) as you do.

Much better than terrible AI that does the same thing every race and usually brakes way too early making it easy to pass them!

Maybe I'm not like everyone else, but for me I use games like GT as my Time Trial simulator. The racing in most games is pretty dull against the AI that i don't really engage with that. Make the racing good, make the online racing as easy to get into as something like Rocket League, and they could be on to a winner here!
Not everybody wants or has time for online gaming.
 

Solal

Member
I don't get people clamouring for this mythical Single Player content. This was never something I felt was done in a very compelling manner with previous GT games. Just a bunch of random cups that hardly was all that involving and in which most of the time you could easily cheat the game by using an over powered car. It was ALWAYS a grind. The racing itself was never all that fun.

If... IF... PD can make the online racing system compelling, if they really can filter out all the terrible players and if they can pit you against people of similar levels and have a good levelling system so you can climb up the ranks, and fundamentally if the online racing infrastructure can handle close racing... that right there is my compelling content. Fun races with real people who take the game as seriously (or not) as you do.

Much better than terrible AI that does the same thing every race and usually brakes way too early making it easy to pass them!

Maybe I'm not like everyone else, but for me I use games like GT as my Time Trial simulator. The racing in most games is pretty dull against the AI that i don't really engage with that. Make the racing good, make the online racing as easy to get into as something like Rocket League, and they could be on to a winner here!

I don't think we are really discussiing GT mode quality...I for instance, can't stand the grinding mess that GT is. That's something that I could enjoy 15 years ago....but grinding for hours and hours the same races is not acceptable to me anymore (even if you win all the races, you'll have to do it again and again...). Just lazy, uninspired game design.

But this is not, to my undertsanding, the point of TylerDurden's post (or is it?): GT has always been seen as a single player game where you win cars through winning races, or -yes- a time trial game-...how will the shift to a "lighter" online game be percieved by the market ? How will it appeal to the massive number of casual players who just want to have fun driving without caring about performance and skills?
 

Quixz

Member
If anyone is interested in how car sound with FMOD (used by Forza and Assetto Corsa for example and probably by many more racing games with average to good car sound) is made, here is a video of a well known AC sound modder doing sound for the Ferrari FXX K in FMOD and Adobe Audition without access to the car or any dyno recordings of the sound.

https://youtu.be/1g_f0L7rLiY?t=17m50s

If you watch from 17:50 up ~22:10 you'll have a good picture of that stuff works.

Makes you wonder why "proper" developers have difficulty making cars sound great.
 

malyce

Member
This is more taking a stab at the iracing market and announcing the arrival of GT in the esports world. Online racing done right heavily shits on any type of single player campaign where you win cars or money. That's what racing is about. The majority of people who purchase successful FPS games do so for the online competition. Something that has been half-assed or completely missing from racing sims on consoles up until now(jury is still out on GTS). Before GTS, GT online was just a free for all with no real ranking, classes or any sort of meaningful player reputation or ways to group players by skill level.


It's funny looking back at it because when GT5:prologue dropped in 2008, minus the lack of a real player skill ranking system and qualifying, it had the best online racing setup for its time. Even eclipsing that of its successors, GT5 and GT6, both of which online presence was non existent.The PP (Performance Points) system and regularly scheduled online events in GT5P made for some really good racing among a wide selection of cars. There was also the more skill-demanding races with lower grip tires that tended to weed out the lesser skilled or online troublemakers. All of this was completely removed from GT5 and GT6 and it took PD almost a decade to get serious about online racing. I have no issues with this game being online focused while the single player content takes a back seat. Grinding for 100s of hours against AI will always be a subpar experience compared to a true human competition no matter how many different ways PD tries to revamp its single player campaign.
 
I don't think we are really discussiing GT mode quality...I for instance, can't stand the grinding mess that GT is. That's something that I could enjoy 15 years ago....but grinding for hours and hours the same races is not acceptable to me anymore (even if you win all the races, you'll have to do it again and again...). Just lazy, uninspired game design.

But this is not, to my undertsanding, the point of TylerDurden's post (or is it?): GT has always been seen as a single player game where you win cars through winning races, or -yes- a time trial game-...how will the shift to a "lighter" online game be percieved by the market ? How will it appeal to the massive number of casual players who just want to have fun driving without caring about performance and skills?

Just bought GT6 a couple of days ago. Maybe it is because I am LTTP and rewards got more generous as time goes by; but after playing less than a week I am at 3 million+ credits and I never had to redo a race. Just a bunch of special events and online races.
 

benzy

Member
Yeah...I liked the direction this damage system was taking too but then we had the complainers...so they removed it with a patch.

I'd like to know if the CPU in PS4 up to this type of job? I expect the SPU's in a PS3 compensated a great deal but I'm not technical enough know for sure. Just a feeling Jaguar CPU's in PS4 wouldn't be able to do it along with everything else.

In fact, would this be true for dynamic weather too?

The SPUs in Cell were to help do some legwork for the RSX GPU, but the PS4 and Pro GPU's destroys both RSX and Cell for GPU-related activities.

Jaguar cores are still considerably better than Cell for non-floating point calculations or non-GPU related stuff. There isn't really anything the PS3 could do better than the PS4.
 

Stoffinator

Member
That moving crowd in the distance is such an excellent [and very rarely seen in sim games] touch.

I have been waiting forever for this to happen in racing games I find we are at a point where the cars look good enough but we need the tracks to be more detailed and alive. Mostly when it comes to the spectators. So far GTSport seems to be stepping it up.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
I wonder why they are not releasing a public demo/beta for Gran Turismo Sports. For a game like this, it would do wonders if people could actually see how the game runs and how well it plays.
 

horkrux

Member
Make the racing good, make the online racing as easy to get into as something like Rocket League, and they could be on to a winner here!

This is no Rocket League, mang. They can do whatever the hell they want and it will still be a hell of a lot more difficult to get into.

Not saying the offline content was ever any good, but I still believe this is what has mainly drawn people to the series, to race against AI opponents.

I wonder why they are not releasing a public demo/beta for Gran Turismo Sports. For a game like this, it would do wonders if people could actually see how the game runs and how well it plays.

This is funny, because I read an article from over a year ago where they said an open beta would delay the game even further by a few months. Look where we are now, game was delayed by a full year anyway, and all we get is an extremely player-restricted beta, which will in no way serve to stress-test what we'll be getting at launch.
 

magawolaz

Member
I wonder why they are not releasing a public demo/beta for Gran Turismo Sports. For a game like this, it would do wonders if people could actually see how the game runs and how well it plays.
They're totally gonna do a public beta after the closed one... especially after the Driveclub fiasco

Spaces will be limited so, if you don’t get into Phase 2, make sure you stay tuned for future beta activities in the run-up to launch…
 
Makes you wonder why "proper" developers have difficulty making cars sound great.
I think the sound "samples" are a lot better now in GTS, but without a driveline flex and proper clutch simulation that stuff will never sound great. For now they should look at their coasting sounds though, it's still behind most other games. I think Forza only gets a pass in that point because they have so many cars in it by now.



But this is not, to my undertsanding, the point of TylerDurden's post (or is it?): GT has always been seen as a single player game where you win cars through winning races, or -yes- a time trial game-...how will the shift to a "lighter" online game be percieved by the market ? How will it appeal to the massive number of casual players who just want to have fun driving without caring about performance and skills?
Yes, this was exactly my point.




The other argument though, the old-school GT career, that has you drive some used market 80's car in the beginning, tune it up instead of buying new cars at first to save money, build a relationship to that car, then slowly earn more money in more prestigious races, buy new cars and end the career with super and race cars... many people think this career type outdated, but there are definitely a lot of people who loved it back in the day and miss it. It's practically gone. Forza is giving the player money based on driven distance (and difficulty + assists, but that's almost nothing compared to the driver level-up rewards) and not less money for less prestigious races, with that ruleset you can only get too little money to ever buy all the super cars you want to own or that you get way too much money to a point where you can buy another $20.000-$80.000 car after every race. With that broken economy and every car available (no used market that gets a new list of buyable cars like in GT before 6) from the start, even Forza hasn't really taken that spot in the current racing game market.
I think that career model will see a revival, but it's still a few years away, right now we're still at "outdated, grindfest, players want the shiny super and race cars right away, game needs to respect the player's time".Looking at other genres though, this isn't outdated at all, look at dark souls' pace, "be meticulous or do everything all over again, boom, haha, F U, wasn't expecting that, huh? Try again." and people love that they need forever to finish those games in 50h that would be finishable in 8 hours if they weren't so hard. Or look at FIFA: Online focus and a choose whatever team and play against whatever team mode for quick plays, but imagine if they left out the career mode that includes grinding for money, buy better players on the transfer market, FIFA fans would be pissed.

And it's not just casuals who like that, there are lots of sim racers who are nostalgic for this type of career, for example just 3 weeks ago I heard Billy Strange from Inside Sim Racing getting nostalgic for this on their live show and saying that he's missing this in racing games.

Right now let's give GTS the benefit of the doubt, if the online system works, this could be amazing. In theory the more hardcore GTS league player base could finance the future car count with a steady flow of new DLC cars that a CarPG-style career needs in a possible second branch of GT games focused on SP. To me it still doesn't seem like what's going to happen since all the cars in GTS are so very modern, I don't see them making 90hp 1980s cars as DLC.
 
I think people clamoring for a fully featured single player couldn't be more wrong. This game should be all about multiplayer. There is a reason why overwatch and destiny are two of the biggest shooters this generation - they focus on social/competitive.

I say this as someone who loved tuning up old cars and and doing driving tests in traditional GT.
 

Audioboxer

Member
I think people clamoring for a fully featured single player couldn't be more wrong. This game should be all about multiplayer. There is a reason why overwatch and destiny are two of the biggest shooters this generation - they focus on social/competitive.

I say this as someone who loved tuning up old cars and and doing driving tests in traditional GT.

Racing games can be a hot mess in MP if it results in a bumper car fest and rubbish penalties/car damage as a deterrence. People tend to like to play MP games that are arcadey and in the cases of racing, like Mario Kart. GT requires some etiquette, and often you're better off in custom lobbies. Not everyone has time to try and arrange that or friends.

For PD to act as arrogant to say "SP isn't needed" will yet again be just another free steak they through Turn10/Forza and MS.
 

farisr

Member
I think people clamoring for a fully featured single player couldn't be more wrong. This game should be all about multiplayer. There is a reason why overwatch and destiny are two of the biggest shooters this generation - they focus on social/competitive.

I say this as someone who loved tuning up old cars and and doing driving tests in traditional GT.
Yeah man, I remember the move from offline SP focused entries to MP only did such wonders for Destiny.overwatch.. oh wait. Those were new IPs, and the most popular portion of Destiny is the one where folks are actually fighting against AI opponents that can be played solo if one so chooses. Absolutely not the same thing.

And if you want to play the "well look at how popular x is" game I'll just throw the one out there that trumps everything else, GTA V. Solid SP offering AND a popular MP mode. There's actually no legit reason why a flagship franchise like GT, especially a game like GT, can't have a fully featured SP mode while also having a good online mode for those who want it. The vast majority of things that take a while to create for the game (the tracks, the cars, the physics engine etc) are shared across both modes.

When even COD feels the need to include SP campaigns, despite MP being clearly the way more popular mode, It's pretty ridiculous for GT ditch a proper SP for MP looking at its history.
 
Does GTS not use that system where they put trolls and shitty drivers into their own lobby, while good and serious drivers will be matched with each other only?

I wonder why they are not releasing a public demo/beta for Gran Turismo Sports. For a game like this, it would do wonders if people could actually see how the game runs and how well it plays.

I fully expect an open beta after the closed one is done.
 
There's actually no legit reason why a flagship franchise like GT, especially a game like GT, can't have a fully featured SP mode while also having a good online mode for those who want it.
The keyword is "legit" here... we all know the real reason and it's that PD is not working like a streamlined production company staffed and managed with serious deadlines in mind and their eyes at the competition.

If they were, we'd get a game called GT7 and have the online like GTS and the SP career as a mix between GT4 and Forza Motorsport 6 and maybe some Driveclub-esque challenges and social features.


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I absolutely disagree with your analogy with Dark Souls: this game forces you to get better. it shows no mercy to you... so when you win a battle or a level, you feel satisfied and proud. Something that you don't really feel in GT (unless you make up your own challenges). GT really lacks any kind of achievement feeling. Winning or losing is just a matter of car-hence time: not skills. Dark souls is the exact contrary i think...

Good point, I think getting rid of the driving line and also the option to tune yourself out ouf trouble is leaning a little into this "rewarding to get better" angle and will very likely transfer to any SP-career focused game PD will do in the future.
 

Solal

Member
I think the sound "samples" are a lot better now in GTS, but without a driveline flex and proper clutch simulation that stuff will never sound great. For now they should look at their coasting sounds though, it's still behind most other games. I think Forza only gets a pass in that point because they have so many cars in it by now.




Yes, this was exactly my point.




The other argument though, the old-school GT career, that has you drive some used market 80's car in the beginning, tune it up instead of buying new cars at first to save money, build a relationship to that car, then slowly earn more money in more prestigious races, buy new cars and end the career with super and race cars... many people think this career type outdated, but there are definitely a lot of people who loved it back in the day and miss it. It's practically gone. Forza is giving the player money based on driven distance (and difficulty + assists, but that's almost nothing compared to the driver level-up rewards) and not less money for less prestigious races, with that ruleset you can only get too little money to ever buy all the super cars you want to own or that you get way too much money to a point where you can buy another $20.000-$80.000 car after every race. With that broken economy and every car available (no used market that gets a new list of buyable cars like in GT before 6) from the start, even Forza hasn't really taken that spot in the current racing game market.
I think that career model will see a revival, but it's still a few years away, right now we're still at "outdated, grindfest, players want the shiny super and race cars right away, game needs to respect the player's time".Looking at other genres though, this isn't outdated at all, look at dark souls' pace, "be meticulous or do everything all over again, boom, haha, F U, wasn't expecting that, huh? Try again." and people love that they need forever to finish those games in 50h that would be finishable in 8 hours if they weren't so hard. Or look at FIFA: Online focus and a choose whatever team and play against whatever team mode for quick plays, but imagine if they left out the career mode that includes grinding for money, buy better players on the transfer market, FIFA fans would be pissed.

And it's not just casuals who like that, there are lots of sim racers who are nostalgic for this type of career, for example just 3 weeks ago I heard Billy Strange from Inside Sim Racing getting nostalgic for this on their live show and saying that he's missing this in racing games.

Right now let's give GTS the benefit of the doubt, if the online system works, this could be amazing. In theory the more hardcore GTS league player base could finance the future car count with a steady flow of new DLC cars that a CarPG-style career needs in a possible second branch of GT games focused on SP. To me it still doesn't seem like what's going to happen since all the cars in GTS are so very modern, I don't see them making 90hp 1980s cars as DLC.

I feel like you are describing GT mode in a very indulgent way. Earning money through races to buy a more powerful car is perfectly fine... but in GT, the game never asks you to get better at driving: so the only way to describe GT mode is "drive a lot, grind many times the same race...and get the car you want...then do it again"...

I absolutely disagree with your analogy with Dark Souls: this game forces you to get better. it shows no mercy to you... so when you win a battle or a level, you feel satisfied and proud. Something that you don't really feel in GT (unless you make up your own challenges). GT really lacks any kind of achievement feeling. Winning or losing is just a matter of car-hence time: not skills. Dark souls is the exact contrary i think...

I think grinding in the first GTs was fine because it was new, pretty well thought and fitted the huge the number of cars... but now, after 6 iterations, many same cars, same tracks, same races...even same licences! It should have been refined, added something else... ideally skill based, good AI, realistic damages that change the way you drive,...

Online focus is a radical change... very risky imo, and I personnally am not very confident about this.

PD showed in the past its total lack of understanding of the online infrastuctures (the online mode in GT5 and 6 were disastrous IMHO... especially if you compare them with EA's autolog for instance...or any big online game)

Online races can really be ruined by other players... much more than in any other genre. In a FPS, even if you loose, you can still make some good kills or have small wins in a battle (a good combo, a nice k/d ratio, a nice move, multikill, etc...)... in a sports game, you can still score a good goal, ...

But in a racing games, if someone gets you out of the race, breaks your car, rams into you...it can totally ruin the whole race... I guess you could manage it through a deep leveling system... but, right now, I have absolutely zero trust in PD to be able to make up a efficient, fair, slick and nice online mode. I just can't see this happen (IIRC they had a very hard time fixing corner cuts in GT academy... did'nt they? that s very telling i think)

So... a single player based on winning races to buy better cars can be relevant...but it would require a huge work that I feel like PD does not want to do. (i think the main problem is the AI that is just not subtle and deep enough to make a smooth and fair skill based progression).
 
It's an excellent solution in my limited experience. No discernible lag and full FFB effects. Once it's all initially set up it takes less than a minute to get going from a cold boot.

I've only used it with Assetto Corsa so far but it emulates a Logitech G29 so should work with all PS4 games that support that wheel.

Edit: my wheel is a Fanatec CSR Elite with Clubsport pedals.

Great.

Thanks very much for the feedback!
 

magawolaz

Member
PD showed in the past its total lack of understanding of the online infrastuctures (the online mode in GT5 and 6 were disastrous IMHO... especially if you compare them with EA's autolog for instance...or any big online game)
Admit it, you didn't even play GT6 - at least not since the introduction of community features (but even before that, it wasn't disastrous at all)

I wish Project Cars or Assetto Corsa had that kind of online structure. AC doesn't even have online lobbies, for crying out loud.
 
Visual damage is the most overrated thing in a racing game imo

Give me decent mechanical damage and proper collision physics instead

I couldn't agree more. For racing games leaning towards simulation, that is so important. I'm a big GT fan, but this has been a glaring omission since the original GT.
 
white-guy-blinking-meme-gif.gif

GT.... 6?? *swallows*
picture mode with improved quality over gameplay IQ though, right??



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In game shot with flicker reduction setting, the photomode version would look worse as GT's photomode has never captured all the visual effects present during gameplay.

GT6 PS Pro just isn't impressive to me. All these years, all the extra power and this is it? A smoother running cutdown online focused GT6 with all the returning tracks recieving the Suzuka upgrade treatment, all the same problems under the bonnet, added piss filter and a nasty nit infestation for good measure. 😢

Are the beta codes tied to the account they're sent to?
 

Solal

Member
Admit it, you didn't even play GT6 - at least not since the introduction of community features (but even before that, it wasn't disastrous at all)

I wish Project Cars or Assetto Corsa had that kind of online structure. AC doesn't even have online lobbies, for crying out loud.

Look. I played GT6 for maybe 4 or 5 months after release (I got it day 1...)... But its by far the one I played the least as the framerate was so terrible that I aways ended up disgusted. I really hate GT6's performance. Unberable to me. (and GT5's was very bad too btw)

So, asfor online play, I remember spending literally 20 or 30 minutes to find a decent race that was not already started or too laggy to play.

i remember there was no proper leaderboards where I could just pick a car, a track and time trial against my friends.

But your post made my doubt my own memories so I just started GT6 again an hour ago...maybe there was some update that I did not try?

After trying 4 different "quick races", I still could not race: always ended up in an already started race... So I went in lobbies...

Got disconnected from server...then got in, but the race was already started...then got in another one but the race would'nt start and the guys were just driving reverse and chit chatting...

So after maybe 15 minutes (quick races included) looking for a race that I could play, I went back to "quick race" and could get in an event where I only had to wait for 100 seconds before start (100 seconds is a long time IMO) .

And the race was alright: no lag, clean...nice one in the end.

So, was it a nice and smooth experience? I don't think so. Far from it.

I think being able to have a quick race...well...quickly...is much more important. When I play PES, or DC or any FPS, I can play within 2 or 3 minutes. Why can't i in GT6? Am I missing something?
(I know the game is old and all...but this experience fits my memories from 3 years ago...)

To be complete, I don't care about clubs and community features. I am sure some people enjoy them... but I couldn't care less.

I did not check if personnal leaderboards were added...were they?
 

Putty

Member
In game shot with flicker reduction setting, the photomode version would look worse as GT's photomode has never captured all the visual effects present during gameplay.

GT6 PS Pro just isn't impressive to me. All these years, all the extra power and this is it? A smoother running cutdown online focused GT6 with all the returning tracks recieving the Suzuka upgrade treatment, all the same problems under the bonnet, added piss filter and a nasty nit infestation for good measure. 😢

Are the beta codes tied to the account they're sent to?

It's time to stop posting now....rinse repeat every time..It's not for you ..move on...
 
I really hate GT6's performance. Unberable to me. (and GT5's was very bad too btw)
I'm used to driving every game from cockpit view, which worsens the performance of GT6 even more. Screen tearing is ugly, but the effect is usually not gameplay effecting, I can forgive tearing quite easily in racing games (it also means that there is no v-sync, which is showing me that low latency was important to the devs). The framerate on the other hand... when I haven't played GT for a while and start into a race in cockpit view, I tend to look away from the screen in "holy shit"-disgust for a second. The only good side is that the frame-pacing is somewhat steady and not fluctuating too much, I forget about the framerate after a short while, but my brain doesn't and I get headaches from GT6.

Two tips:
- Correct FOV(here is a calculator) makes tearing while driving less drastic.
- If you can live with GT looking uglier, set your PS3 to 720p, GT6 keeps 60fps almost always like that.


In game shot with flicker reduction setting, the photomode version would look worse as GT's photomode has never captured all the visual effects present during gameplay.
Wow, didn't take many screenshots in that game.

GT6 PS Pro just isn't impressive to me. All these years, all the extra power and this is it? A smoother running cutdown online focused GT6 with all the returning tracks recieving the Suzuka upgrade treatment, all the same problems under the bonnet, added piss filter and a nasty nit infestation for good measure.
I fear that too for the physics when I don't see tire pressure in the car setup page (I mean it, seriously wtf, every real world driver adjusts tire pressure to the track and conditions, but GT doesn't show tire temps and is also not allowing asymmetrical setups).

That the standard brake balance is still showing this 50:50 standardized number crap (not actual brake force ratio, because actual 50:50 would be undrivable in 98% of all cars) and usually damper bump and rebound settings are set to the same number, which again would feel like garbage, especially in a race car rebound is always far stiffer than bump... and under the hood it is in GT too of course, but PD won't let us look under the hood and is only giving us these standardized click-settings.
 

Solal

Member
I'm used to driving every game from cockpit view, which worsens the performance of GT6 even more. Screen tearing is ugly, but the effect is usually not gameplay effecting, I can forgive tearing quite easily in racing games (it also means that there is no v-sync, which is showing me that low latency was important to the devs). The framerate on the other hand... when I haven't played GT for a while and start into a race in cockpit view, I tend to look away from the screen in "holy shit"-disgust for a second. The only good side is that the frame-pacing is somewhat steady and not fluctuating too much, I forget about the framerate after a short while, but my brain doesn't and I get headaches from GT6.

Two tips:
- Correct FOV(here is a calculator) makes tearing while driving less drastic.
- If you can live with GT looking uglier, set your PS3 to 720p, GT6 keeps 60fps almost always like that.

You should've seen me when i tried GT6 for the first time: I was devastated by the framerate. I was so frustrated that PD sacrificed the framerate for eye candy...again. Could not believe it.
It was even worse than in GT5 which was already abyssmal to me.
PD upping the res in GT6 will stay like the worst decision ever to me.
Especially as the IQ was crap anyway (in gameplay I mean).

basically, framerate is what killed my love for GT. I could forgive the rest (yes...even the shittiest engine sounds ever and the dumb AI!). But screen tearing ? NO WAY!

(had the same feeling with AC on PS4 btw: day 1 it was probably the worst framerate I had ever experienced in a racing game... got better through patches... and now perdfect thanks to Pro boost mode...)

And I completely agree on the standard numbers in GT. This shit needs to stop. We want real numbers. And while we are at it, why not a "realistic" setup where cars have the realistic aids, tyres, power steering (or not), ABS (or not), etc... In GT every car has electronic aids by default... which is stupid for 70% of them. And then for those who do have aids IRL, how can we know how to set them up? This should be realistic by default...and then we can change them if we want to!

I really feel that you can't really be sure your car behave like it should in GT because there is way too much stuff hidden from us.
 
And I completely agree on the standard numbers in GT. This shit needs to stop. We want real numbers. And while we are at it, why not a "realistic" setup where cars have the realistic aids, tyres, power steering (or not), ABS (or not), etc... In GT every car has electronic aids by default... which is stupid for 70% of them. And then for those who do have aids IRL, how can we know how to set them up? This should be realistic by default...and then we can change them if we want to!

I really feel that you can't really be sure your car behave like it should in GT because there is way too much stuff hidden from us.
I think in most games the differences between cars are much lower than the differences between games. Give me a steering wheel, turn off FFB (edit: sound too of course) and make the graphics look the same, I can tell you from which game the car I'm driving is. Do the same with different cars of equal power and tires from the same game and I'd have a much harder time telling which car is which.
What I'm saying is "basically none of the cars drive like they should" also GT is extremely forgiving from the handling model (and I'm not one of those guys who think "if it's not hard to drive, it's not sim").

The "only aids that the real car has too"-thing is happening in GTS, I think, but you can override it, which is how it should be, so beginners can have it a bit easier if they want.
"Power steering" though? No sim does that ...or do you mean something different?
I'd already be very happy if GTS would set the degree of rotation right for different cars and use self-aligning torque based FFB, give me that and I'll forgive almost any sim shortcomings.

Anyway, we're derailing this thread. We should probably stop that.
 

cooldawn

Member
The SPUs in Cell were to help do some legwork for the RSX GPU, but the PS4 and Pro GPU's destroys both RSX and Cell for GPU-related activities.

Jaguar cores are still considerably better than Cell for non-floating point calculations or non-GPU related stuff. There isn't really anything the PS3 could do better than the PS4.
Oh right. I thought physics calculations were CPU bound for things like a dynamic damage system.

PS4 should be able to handle dynamics for everything then. So why no dynamics in Gran Turismo Sport?

Online focus is a radical change... very risky imo, and I personnally am not very confident about this.

PD showed in the past its total lack of understanding of the online infrastuctures (the online mode in GT5 and 6 were disastrous IMHO... especially if you compare them with EA's autolog for instance...or any big online game)
That's across the board, though...unless the way the game teaches you to act is mature and specialised, like iRacing.

I think the key differentiator is an online only experience has a natural ability to infer respect alongside a rating system. There are tangible consequences i.e. a lack of progression. It's a deterrent. It makes it really hard to breed behaviour when online systems are openly mixed with offline experiences. The perception is completely different and it's another reason why an online-only Gran Turismo is required to nurture that type of community.

Gran Turismo Sport's iRacing inspired systems is a positive start.
 
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