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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK

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Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So, the theory behind all this MMR stuff is that player skill can be quantified on one axis. If you know exactly how good everyone is, you can look at all the players on one team and all the players on the other team and say just how often you expect the first team to win (that is, it's not deterministic - sometimes worse players beat better players). If you don't know exactly how good everyone is, you can work backwards - if one team beats another team then probably the players on the winning team are on-average better than the players on the losing team.

Now consider an individual player who we're trying to rank and suppose we know how good everyone else is. If you have no idea how good she is, but you see that her team just won a game against a team whose members were on-average better than all of the other members of this player's team, then all of the information you've got suggests she's probably better than the average player on the other team. If you've got a probability distribution of player skill across all players, you can come up with an initial most likely skill value for her. If she loses her next game then you might drastically revise your estimate of her skill downward. But after she's played a bunch of games you're going to be pretty confident that you've got a good estimate of her skill - new games aren't adding much new information - and even if she wins a game your system says she probably would lose you won't adjust her rank up too much. If you use hotslogs you might have noticed how players with few recorded games see huge MMR jumps while players with lots of recorded games barely move after each new game.

A problem for this sort of system is that players can get better at the game. If a player is constantly improving, your system might badly lag their true skill even as it thinks that it's got a very confident estimate. You don't want to weight the very first match a player ever played the same as the most recent one they played if there are 500 matches in between. That first match is probably not very useful at all for judging how good the player is now.

People's concern (and I don't really know how justified this is) about Blizzard's system is that players' old games might be following them around for far too long. People aren't necessarily asking for a total blank slate, but just for the opportunity to show the system that they've significantly improved. They feel like it takes far too long for someone with hundreds of games played to move from some MMR to a higher MMR, even if they really ought to be at the higher MMR. There's a balance that needs to be struck between keeping people's MMRs stable and allowing them to drift in response to real changes in skill.

I'm unsure how "grinding ranks" is supposed to work, personally. I'd thought that, absent the skill bonus from having a hidden MMR significantly higher than the one implied by your rank, gains and losses of rank points are roughly symmetric. I guess people could random walk up a couple ranks and then quit forever? That doesn't seem like a huge issue. But you mention going from 20 to 5 when you're supposed to be at 20 and I'm having trouble seeing how that can happen (edit: outside of a one-time shift when they change where the cutoffs are, which I guess is part of what motivated the reset they just did, but you seem to be talking about needing to do this every season).

Also problematic, if someone is playing Zeratul at Level 12, they might be playing much better than if they're using Stitches at Level 1.

However, both of these games factor into the same MMR equally, so if the person loses five games as Stitches and goes back to Zeratul, they now get matched against people who they majorly outclass if the MMR has been notably impacted.

Similarly, they probably lost all their Stitiches matches because they were expected to be performing absolute top tier with a hero they had never used before.

Over time, the system heavily discourages people from trying new heroes, because the game expects them to always be playing their best unless they just constantly lose games on their new heroes, and then proceed to stomp over everyone when they go back to their mains.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Hearthstone dailies? Check.
Heroes dailies? Check.

Diablo installed, patched and ready to go? Check.

Gonna try and do as many QM/HL as possible before D3 season 4 starts - I'll be back when I get my silly mount!

SUlxZPG.png
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
PART OF THE SURPRISE, OK?
 

Alur

Member
Don't forget boys and girls, MSI MGA starts at 11 AM EST. The biggest Heroes of the Storm tournament yet. The place where worlds collide.

Is Tempo Storm really the best team in the world or will they get Zuna'd? Will Team Liquid ride Illidan into MSI MGA only to find out he's actually not viable against real competition? Can Cloud 9 win anything ever? Will MVP Black walk away thinking "why didn't they send Team DK"?

TUNE IN AND FIND OUT!
I expect Liquid's Zera/Illidan crutch to be taken away for better or worse, Tempo Storm to either flame out quickly or go all the way, and bet 51% odds on someone unexpected (ie: not TS or TL) to win this tournament
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Will the real Uther, please stand up! I need some advice here... I'm really unsure about the Cleanse ability, despite being heavily favored in hotslogs. I mean, I 'get' that Uther is supposed to have those 4 extra buttons (Protective Shield, Cleanse, Shrink Ray, Benediction) but I just find myself fumbling around with the abilities when we get into massive lvl 20 team fights. As a true micro-manager (teran player), I feel kinda disappointed by myself but I can't really hide the truth that I'm struggling with the extra abilities.

What I'm trying to say is that out of all the extra abilities, cleanse seems to be the one that I'm finding less valuable. Shield is super easy to use, I instantly shrink Illidan, Benediction is procced as soon as I need to burst heal - but Cleanse just ends up being there off cooldown.

Question: Am I a moron for even considering something else instead of Cleanse?
 
Don't forget boys and girls, MSI MGA starts at 11 AM EST. The biggest Heroes of the Storm tournament yet. The place where worlds collide.

Is Tempo Storm really the best team in the world or will they get Zuna'd? Will Team Liquid ride Illidan into MSI MGA only to find out he's actually not viable against real competition? Can Cloud 9 win anything ever? Will MVP Black walk away thinking "why didn't they send Team DK"?

TUNE IN AND FIND OUT!
I expect Liquid's Zera/Illidan crutch to be taken away for better or worse, Tempo Storm to either flame out quickly or go all the way, and bet 51% odds on someone unexpected (ie: not TS or TL) to win this tournament

i hate saying it but I fully expect tempo storm to take this one quite handily

also doesn't it start at 11 PDT (2 EST)?
 

Guesong

Member
Will the real Uther, please stand up! I need some advice here... I'm really unsure about the Cleanse ability, despite being heavily favored in hotslogs. I mean, I 'get' that Uther is supposed to have those 4 extra buttons (Protective Shield, Cleanse, Shrink Ray, Benediction) but I just find myself fumbling around with the abilities when we get into massive lvl 20 team fights. As a true micro-manager (teran player), I feel kinda disappointed by myself but I can't really hide the truth that I'm struggling with the extra abilities.

What I'm trying to say is that out of all the extra abilities, cleanse seems to be the one that I'm finding less valuable. Shield is super easy to use, I instantly shrink Illidan, Benediction is procced as soon as I need to burst heal - but Cleanse just ends up being there off cooldown.

Question: Am I a moron for even considering something else instead of Cleanse?

No.

I find myself using Holy Fire Most of the time. Works Great since You want to get in There and die as uther basically. Damage adds up real quick otherwise.
 
Will the real Uther, please stand up! I need some advice here... I'm really unsure about the Cleanse ability, despite being heavily favored in hotslogs. I mean, I 'get' that Uther is supposed to have those 4 extra buttons (Protective Shield, Cleanse, Shrink Ray, Benediction) but I just find myself fumbling around with the abilities when we get into massive lvl 20 team fights. As a true micro-manager (teran player), I feel kinda disappointed by myself but I can't really hide the truth that I'm struggling with the extra abilities.

What I'm trying to say is that out of all the extra abilities, cleanse seems to be the one that I'm finding less valuable. Shield is super easy to use, I instantly shrink Illidan, Benediction is procced as soon as I need to burst heal - but Cleanse just ends up being there off cooldown.

Question: Am I a moron for even considering something else instead of Cleanse?

im guessing you do this already but do make sure you always map each ability to the same key even if one game you switch up your build and don't pick one of the actives. for example if you don't pick shrink ray one game, make sure you put benediction where it normally is

Cleanse isn't always necessary, the W range talent is very good

Prot shield is best used on tanks now because it's a % based ability, but it can just be used diligently on anyone being focus fired. When going into a team fight w/ cleanse, remember to yourself which abilities in particular you're looking to cleanse and pay careful attention to the heroes that use them and where they're positioned.

Cleanse is really important against obvious stuns like Judgment and Octograb but is also very important when your team has a melee assassin because melee assassins are generally giving their highest value via autoattacks and they can't do that nor stay on their target when they're stunned. Ranged assassins however don't have those same proximity requirements and kind of just use their abilities and kind of tap out and auto.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Thanks for the tips guys!

Also, anyone else REALLY looking forward to Rexxar? I find it odd that he's a warrior, but I guess Blizzard needs to compensate for the amount of assassins in the game or something?!

I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN - Rexxar 2014-2015

Spirit Swoop (Q): Summons a hawk in a straight line that slows enemies hit.
Misha, Charge! (W): Misha charges towards a location, stunning enemies hit.
Mend Pet (E): Heals Rexxar and Misha (if she's nearby).
Bestial Wrath (R1): Greatly boost Misha's fighting capabilities.
Unleash the Boars (R2): Summons boars that charge towards enemy heroes, greatly slowing them on impact, and revealing them.
And needless to say, the Rexxar bundle is an insta-buy!
 
i hate saying it but I fully expect tempo storm to take this one quite handily

also doesn't it start at 11 PDT (2 EST)?

I doubt it, TS is still king when it comes to rotating and seizing opportunities in NA but they've begun to struggle more and more against NA teams early to mid game.

The EU scene has a couple really strong teams and TL just dominates them. Even bans are horrifying against TL. Can't let them have Zeratul, Illidan, Abathur or Leoric what do you ban? And even if you do manage to ban and pick away their target heroes they'll just go TLV.
 

Alavard

Member
Thanks for the tips guys!

Also, anyone else REALLY looking forward to Rexxar? I find it odd that he's a warrior, but I guess Blizzard needs to compensate for the amount of assassins in the game or something?!

I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN - Rexxar 2014-2015


And needless to say, the Rexxar bundle is an insta-buy!

The only things I'm looking forward to with Rexxar are that he's our first ranged warrior, and the potential for some sick body blocks with Misha's charge. I'm probably not going to get him right away though.

The things I like least about him are that he's yet *another* character with a slow on his Q (recent heroes Johanna, Butcher, Leoric all have one), and that 'Unleash the Boars' looks very underwhelming.
 
So turns out that i'm stupider than I thought... Man! It hard to find simple info on these e-sports tournaments... Really excited though, but can someone please spell it out for me using iron wire... So this mga msi masters(?) starts today but when are ther semi's and finals being played? are they played today and finals tomorrow? Sunday? How can this info be so hard to find o.0
 
So turns out that i'm stupider than I thought... Man! It hard to find simple info on these e-sports tournaments... Really excited though, but can someone please spell it out for me using iron wire... So this mga msi masters(?) starts today but when are ther semi's and finals being played? are they played today and finals tomorrow? Sunday? How can this info be so hard to find o.0

The only info I can find is Grand finals 28-31th !!
seriously this can't be so hard! Even on the esl page there are no start times for matches or even dates o.0

http://play.eslgaming.com/heroesofthestorm/americas/heroes/major/msi-mga/2015-hots-finals/rankings/


edit:
Finally!
http://www.gosugamers.net/heroesofthestorm/events/344-masters-gaming-arena-2015

has at least this...

LAN Finals ---August 28-29

A two day event
-- Single Elimination BO3 bracket
-- The Final is a BO5
 
Yesterday I had the most insane moment in my HOTS history. We got rekt in spider and opponent went to the core with 4 man. I was the only one alive with Zeratul, I VP:d 2 of them and started nuking heroes that were focusing the core. I actually managed to kill all of them with berserk and rewind and the core was left with a few percentages of health. Needless to say we won after that. I couldn't believe my eyes.

That is the best feeling! Love games like that lol
 
Yesterday I had the most insane moment in my HOTS history. We got rekt in spider and opponent went to the core with 4 man. I was the only one alive with Zeratul, I VP:d 2 of them and started nuking heroes that were focusing the core. I actually managed to kill all of them with berserk and rewind and the core was left with a few percentages of health. Needless to say we won after that. I couldn't believe my eyes.

I dread the nerf hammer looming above Zeratul's head. My favourite and most played hero.
 
Will the real Uther, please stand up! I need some advice here... I'm really unsure about the Cleanse ability, despite being heavily favored in hotslogs. I mean, I 'get' that Uther is supposed to have those 4 extra buttons (Protective Shield, Cleanse, Shrink Ray, Benediction) but I just find myself fumbling around with the abilities when we get into massive lvl 20 team fights. As a true micro-manager (teran player), I feel kinda disappointed by myself but I can't really hide the truth that I'm struggling with the extra abilities.

What I'm trying to say is that out of all the extra abilities, cleanse seems to be the one that I'm finding less valuable. Shield is super easy to use, I instantly shrink Illidan, Benediction is procced as soon as I need to burst heal - but Cleanse just ends up being there off cooldown.

Question: Am I a moron for even considering something else instead of Cleanse?

Well Cleanse is good when you know they have a good disable they'll probably open with. I find it's easy to use most of the time if you only bother cleansing the "catch" CC that starts the fight. Like for example if there's Kaelthas and he manages to hit someone with a random stun poke, you Cleanse it. After that it's on cd, so whatever you focus on the teamfight(if there's one). I find trying to use it randomly in the middle of teamfights is too confusing too and tend to forget about it cause there's so much shit happening, but it's great to use on people who are getting hit by predictable stuns.

Can use other stuff though, not sure about Uther talents at that particular level but on Malfurion I don't often take it because it's also the Enduring Growth level and that's a very good talent to have.
 

brian!

Member
Sometimes i look at the amount of cc on the enemy team and im like yeah i dont need cleanse here, but i find myself regretting that decision more often than not
 
I doubt it, TS is still king when it comes to rotating and seizing opportunities in NA but they've begun to struggle more and more against NA teams early to mid game.

The EU scene has a couple really strong teams and TL just dominates them. Even bans are horrifying against TL. Can't let them have Zeratul, Illidan, Abathur or Leoric what do you ban? And even if you do manage to ban and pick away their target heroes they'll just go TLV.

Lol what. People take games off TL all the time. They scraped by BOB in the finals of the last open.

tempo storm and liquid had their two-week tilt phase that seems to be gone now for both.
 
Lol what. People take games off TL all the time. They scraped by BOB in the finals of the last open.

tempo storm and liquid had their two-week tilt phase that seems to be gone now for both.

Going into the 2nd BO3 would not qualify as barely scraping by and Bob Question Mark is a great team. In arguably a more difficult environment TL still wins pretty much every tournament, bar the odd round of 64 match against NaVi.

TS also barely "scraped by" C9 in August Open, C9 had both games under control until the late game where Tempo Storm outrotated them handedly.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Zagara has always been insane. She was a quickmatch titan since she came out if you knew how to use her for the same reason she's so strong in competitive. She can do almost everything simultaneously and she can do it well.
 

Fmal

Banned
This game could really use a random mount feature. Even if it's just per game instead of per use. I have all these ownage mounts but I never use them.
 

Maledict

Member
Going into the 2nd BO3 would not qualify as barely scraping by and Bob Question Mark is a great team. In arguably a more difficult environment TL still wins pretty much every tournament, bar the odd round of 64 match against NaVi.

TS also barely "scraped by" C9 in August Open, C9 had both games under control until the late game where Tempo Storm outrotated them handedly.

I don't think its up for discussion that the EU competitive scene is a much harder environment than NA. Even the two top NA teams (C9 and Tempo) have both said on THH that EU is a much tougher environment - whilst NA has 4 strong teams, EU has a much deeper bench simply because it's a significantly larger game over here (From Hotslogs data, 40% bigger in EU than NA).

Combine that with the fact there's constant smaller tournaments run over here than in the NA, and its easy to see why its a tougher field. Makes you wonder even more whey Blizzard insist on EU getting stuff a day late... :)
 

Tacitus_

Member
Sup guise. Reinstalled this and did an AI match to freshen up my skills.

My team kept feeding to medium AI T_T
Gazlowe hit top ranks with 0 kills and ~20 deaths.

But Skeleton King is a pretty cool hero.
 
Hyped for first "real" cross regional tournament! can't wait to see if asia will come and wipe the floor with NA/EU... With their three warrior meta... Or will the rotation/map control oriented NA rule.. Or EU with their... Ummm... Uhh... Umm... Skill?
 

Alur

Member
I'm excited. One of the rare times I can openly root for Tempo Storm along with Cog and C9 and not feel bad for doing so. If an NA team can't win it, I'd like to see MVP Black take it I suppose.

Aw man, can't we leave Powerman 5000 in the dustbins of history where they belong?

Haha! What a throwback to my youth. I think I was 14 or so when I saw Nobody's Real at about 2 AM on MTV on Christmas Eve night/Christmas morning (talk about a strange combination!).
After hearing it again, I still have a soft spot even though I haven't listened to anything remotely similar in 10-12 years.
 
Hyped for first "real" cross regional tournament! can't wait to see if asia will come and wipe the floor with NA/EU... With their three warrior meta... Or will the rotation/map control oriented NA rule.. Or EU with their... Ummm... Uhh... Umm... Skill?

The OGN tournaments I watched were more in the double warrior.

I'm guessing it's MVP black and not MVP Sky that's playing. Also seems like there's been an influx of starcraft pros moving over into hots recently.

Oh and of course the Magic The Gathering World Championships had to be going on at the same time
 

Alur

Member
MSI MGA Grand Finals Tournament.

Twitch link.

Bodies ready. Asses in seats. Prepare for your region to disappoint.

EDIT: And stream goes down nearly immediately ROFL. GG.

EDITx2: Stream down a second time after they proclaim "FIXED" lol.

EDIT: Here we goooooooooooo
 

Alur

Member
Not that I can find :(.

What's more surprising - The Lost Vikings picked 3rd by my Revenge or that Garden of Terror is the first map?
 

Alur

Member
I was referring more to either being picked at all. Not exactly things we see regularly. It's definitely a good map for TLV, but IMO your other 4 have to be super strong vs whoever they are facing to make it worthwhile...it was a little ambitious to assume they were going to be able to out muscle Liquid beyond the first few levels (and they couldn't even do that).

And shrekt. RIP in peace myR.
 
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