tl;dr at the bottom

So I've been meaning to make this thread for a really long time. Maybe at least two months. But I've been delaying it for a while because of how long it may turn out to be, so I just never got around to doing it. But I think now's the right time to do it. The reason for the thread title is just showing that I want Muslim responses but I want the opinions of everyone else's as well. The last time I made a personal thread I didn't put Muslim in the title and I did get a lot of support from people but not much response from MuslimGAF.

I was raised to be religious. And I was, for a very long time in my life. And here on the GAF, other than the vent frustration thread I was just referring to, I don't think I ever actually stated much that I was a Muslim. Up to this point, I don't know if I should state that I am one because I don't know if I am, or if I'm not one. I don't know what I am.

I think I believe that there is a god. I'm of the opinion that anyone who believes in one, it's the same one of any Abrahamic faith. The same 1 god. And that everyone just has a different interpretation of it.

I practiced Ramadan this year, participated a lot in the OT, and I thought it would strengthen my faith going forward. But this year, I have never been more strayed from my religion. Probably for more reasons that I will get into later. Part of the reason may be because my parents practice the religion very dogmatically and when that's pressed upon me it makes me not want to do it. For instance, if it is prayer time and my father tells me to pray, it makes me not want to pray. I don't want to worship God because someone is telling me to. I want to worship God because I find it in my heart to do so.

That's part of it, but another part stems from the criticisms of the religion itself. For instance, while I know for sure that Jews and Christians are referred to as people of the book, I have simultaneously heard that very violent passages in the Qur'an still exist to those who oppose belief. And I never really see a good counterargument to it.

Or the whole "72 virgins" thing. The same thing with the prophet marrying a young girl. I don't ever hear a good explanation for any of these things.

Last year, when I was still in college, a classmate of mine passed away. I wasn't close with her but towards the end of the spring semester I interacted with her a lot because we were direct partners in a project of 5 or 6 people. I wanted a prayer for her to be included one Friday so I texted the president or vice president of the MSA. His first question was: "Was she Muslim?"

I don't think that should've mattered, but the answer was no. His response was, he's sorry to hear about her loss but he can't announce the request to do dua for her. That still, to this day, pisses me off.

And speaking of the profit, there's something else that bothers me - I feel like sometimes he's put on too high of a pedestal. Here's an example. This is a picture from inside my local masjid.

I know it's difficult to see, but to the right is a frame that reads "Allah" and to the left reads one that says "Muhammad"



That to me, on I guess a decorative scale, is putting the prophet on too high a pedestal. He's the exemplar for what a Muslim should be but he's still just a man.

----------

But here's the thing, the reason why I'm making so much of a fuss out of it, things going to get really personal...

I've struggled a very long time with depression. And I've been depressed for a long time this year. I feel like I need some sort of religious guidance to help me, but it's not. It could be that I need to put forth a better effort, but with everything happening in the world it's just depressing me even more. Like, on Facebook all I see is people with different agendas, and almost an indoctrinated way of thinking. No matter what side they are on they'll go into an event with preconception and preconceived notions that's been formed from their own ingrained bias. And it's depressing. It makes me want to just deactivate Facebook and not be on it but it sometimes comes as a vital part of communication.

And, here's a thing with that...I don't want to make it seem like my life is all that bad. I'm loved by family members and I know there are people in the world who are far worse off than I am in living conditions. But, that doesn't really help. And I recognize even here on GAF people go through worse things in life.

I'm an only child, and I hate it. I guess you can say I grew up spoiled and sheltered and it has damaged me. Very often I think about the times I misbehaved so badly with my mother and the look on her face she had with disappointment. I just can't get that out of my head. Being such a spoiled fucking brat and yelling at my mother because I didn't get something the way I wanted it.

I grew up around a lot of cousins. I could end the thread here but one cousin in particular who has been around me since I was born who's basically a brother.

I've also struggled a long time with marijuana. He knows the struggles I've had and he's thoroughly convinced I'm an addict. But he's wrong, and no, I'm not in denial. Yes, there have been points in my life where I've gotten high every single day and it has become costly for me. But I have learned to stay sober for long periods of time, even be around marijuana, have it presented and offered to me and say no.

This week when I was squatting at his place, and he came home to smell and see that I've gotten high. He says I have a problem. The next day he texts a whole bunch of shit to me saying things like,

Yes I wanted to be able to trust you. But you showed classic signs of addiction.
And so there no making a mistake twice.
If you have a desperation to smoke that's further proof that you have a problem
So I don't think a second chance is an option
Addicts should touch it at all. And I suggest you treat it like that.
If you feel that you need to smoke, you need to re evaluate shit in your life. But you will be cut off from any and all support from me
Sorry it has to be this way but this is addiction. It's not a joke
As far as I'm concerned, your smoking is over
PERIOD.
Sorry that there needs to be such a hard line but you brought this on yourself by your actions yesterday
I WILL NOT sit around and enable this behavior. I am pissed at myself for even bringing weed back into the convo in the first place.

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and that was seriously putting me on edge, at a workplace that I already was depressed being at. He does not realize the effect his words are having on me and I don't know how to break it to him. There isn't a single day that goes by that I don't wish I'd wake up one day and it's June 2010 again, so I could get another crack at college (that would be summer going into sophomore year for me). I was never a business/finance type of guy. I was always a science type of guy. I should have stuck with my original plan of going to optometry school but I gave up on that very quickly and sophomore year is when spiraled down into an addiction to marijuana.

Seriously, every day, no matter what I am doing, I always have the thoughts of going back to 2010. I am obsessed with it. But like Jay Z said, time does not go back, it goes forward. But it's becoming impossible for me to live like this.

I feel like my mental state is deteriorating. I have a lot of student loans to pay back which I barely begun to do and on top of that, a whole bunch of parent plus loans under my father's name which nelnet simply can't consolidate into mine which puts me and my family in a sticky situation because there's absolutely no way my father will be able to pay back those loans.

I'm a 90s person. I'm going to be 25 next month, but I don't want to live to be that long. But here's the thing...I know that thought process is wrong, but if someone is so miserable with life no matter how positive it may be, if their mentality is a living hell, is it really wrong for them to want out? To let go? I'm not looking for a way out but my mind is unhinged enough that I really don't want to go any further. Because nothing will bring me true happiness. I won't get a second chance to go back, and I cannot get out of this depression.

Everybody's got their own lives to live. Most people probably don't want to sit on GAF reading a thread about someone not happy with theirs. And I totally understand that. When I see other personal threads like this I try to sympathize with the OP but at the end of the day on this forum how much do we care for each other? I don't know any of the people here that I've interacted with personally but I hope everyone is in good health and wishes well on everyone else around them. But the world will continue to spin.

tl;dr

OP is long enough as it is but I may come back to update things later if I feel like I missed something.

I've been a Muslim all my life but now more than ever I feel very disconnected with the faith. I think I still believe in a god, but the things about organized religions, and the motivations and agendas people have, I'm not sure if at this point of my life I can acclimate with them. What does that make me? Agnostic?

The lack of faith may be one things that's been an attributing factor to my depression. For a better part of this year I've been very depressed and I don't think there's any getting out of it. I love my mother and father and my family and they love me, and I have a lot of debts to pay so there is much to live for. But, mentally I feel like it is impossible for me to live this. My mental state is constantly going down the rails. When I interact with people I often have to just put a mask on and pretend nothing's going on in the back (though I understand everybody's got a dark side and are going through hard times in their lives one way or another).

So if someone really feels like mentally they cannot survive, that they are on mental life support, is it really wrong to want to pull the cord? I'm not actively looking for a way out (not gonna drop the s word in this thread), but I don't want to see 25. I think my time on this earth has been enough. And it's too late to write a story for me that goes further without me being in an imprisoned mind.

There are drug related issues as well but I don't want to write about that in a tl;dr. All I am asking for is feedback, honest feedback.

What do you think?

Your god will understand. Keep being a good person not harming others, and peace will follow you.

I know that thought process is wrong, but if someone is so miserable with life no matter how positive it may be, if their mentality is a living hell, is it really wrong for them to want out? To let go? I'm not looking for a way out but my mind is unhinged enough that I really don't want to go any further. Because nothing will bring me true happiness. I won't get a second chance to go back, and I cannot get out of this depression.

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I'm always here for you Artisan and really enjoyed your presence in the ramadan OT. Your posts contribute a lot. But this quote above is a red flag. You definitely should seek help. You can pm me whenever you want. But please seek help my friend.

Here for you man.
These are hard times.Easy to be faithful when life is smooth. Harder when things get real.
Your cousin seems to have misunderstood and overreacted. Seems to really care about you too and a simple explanation would go far. It doesn't seem like an issue with hte stuff with you anymore either. Please do not do anything crazy you can't take back. No one knows what the future wholds and you could always try to be/do better with yourrself and those around you.

Ahasverus said:

Your god will understand. Keep being a good person not harming others, and peace will follow you.

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What are you replying to? His God will understand what?

Can't really relate to the religion or drug angle, but you seem like an honest, thoughtful and level-headed person. The world could do with a lot more people like you, not less. Thinking it's impossible to get out of depression is a lie depression tells you.

I hope you seek and get the help you need. Depression and drug dependance are serious individual issues that require proper attention. I too enjoy your posts so please dont do anything you cant take back.

I'd also suggest avoiding the news and stuff for a while. Theres a lot of anti-Islamic stuff popping up everywhere that you dont need in your life right now.

The Artisan said:

tl;dr

OP is long enough as it is but I may come back to update things later if I feel like I missed something.

I've been a Muslim all my life but now more than ever I feel very disconnected with the faith. I think I still believe in a god, but the things about organized religions, and the motivations and agendas people have, I'm not sure if at this point of my life I can acclimate with them. What does that make me? Agnostic?

The lack of faith may be one things that's been an attributing factor to my depression. For a better part of this year I've been very depressed and I don't think there's any getting out of it. I love my mother and father and my family and they love me, and I have a lot of debts to pay so there is much to live for. But, mentally I feel like it is impossible for me to live this. My mental state is constantly going down the rails. When I interact with people I often have to just put a mask on and pretend nothing's going on in the back (though I understand everybody's got a dark side and are going through hard times in their lives one way or another).

So if someone really feels like mentally they cannot survive, that they are on mental life support, is it really wrong to want to pull the cord? I'm not actively looking for a way out (not gonna drop the s word in this thread), but I don't want to see 25. I think my time on this earth has been enough. And it's too late to write a story for me that goes further without me being in an imprisoned mind.

There are drug related issues as well but I don't want to write about that in a tl;dr. All I am asking for is feedback, honest feedback.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

If you still believe God exists, then you're not Agnostic. That's someone who isn't sure if God exists one way or the other. I'm sure you're just an irreligious individual who is still a theist. I mean without trying to plumb these caves of faith significantly further, a Theist Agnostic for example is someone who believes in God but cannot be sure that they exist. Maybe that might fit you?

But more significantly, as you admit, you are suffering from depression. Depression is the absence of most or all feelings - you can't find joy in almost anything. I am an atheist, but one thing I am sure about is that if you are depressed, no matter what you desire to believe in, it's going to suck much of the motivation out of it. So before you make any big decisions about your faith or direction in life, please seek genuine help for your condition. As someone who has gone through this many times in my life, I understand that things I previously loved could offer me no joy during my worst moments. So while I don't believe, it's possible your depression is partially responsible for you seeing only the negative within your faith and is hindering your ability to make a clear minded choice on whether or not you want anything to do with it.

Ahasverus said:

Your god will understand. Keep being a good person not harming others, and peace will follow you.

Click to expand...

Yeah... that is not really how things always work, unfortunately.

Well, as a Muslim, I'd say you should listen to the Quran, it's a healing for the heart as it says itself. Whenever I have felt doubts, doing this has fixed it. Go to Quran explorer, set the arabic to mishary al Agassi, English to pickthall, set surah to Al-Isra (#17), and just listen. You could pick any surah really, that one is one of my favorites. Or listen starting around surah 73 as they are the shorter ones.

I would highly encourage you to try that OP. Everyone has ups and downs with faith, it's normal and it's also a very emotional thing when it goes down.

A few years back, I was at the lowest of lows in my life. Super depressed, my faith was shot, life was falling apart. I decided to download a Quran app and just forced myself to listen during my commute to work everyday. It was a life changing experience for me. I do it everyday. Even then when I don't listen to it for a few days, weekends or something, I start to fall back. If it wasn't for the Quran, I have no doubt that Id be an athirst. Listening to it (with translation) is what makes my faith firm and gives peace to my heart. It's no wonder the Arabs of Mecca used to call it magic lol

I just want to reiterate this, because with Riz's comments it reminded me: Whether or not that "magical" book worked for him, do NOT follow his approach. A Bible or Qu'ran or whatever holy book is not a replacement for professional help with Depression. This is too serious an issue to play games with, since depression can end in things like suicide. That's like people who think reading the Bible and praying to God will cure their cancer or something. It does not work.

Get professional help, then read the Qu'ran and see where your faith leads you. Make those choices clear-minded.

I've been a Muslim all my life but now more than ever I feel very disconnected with the faith. I think I still believe in a god, but the things about organized religions, and the motivations and agendas people have, I'm not sure if at this point of my life I can acclimate with them. What does that make me? Agnostic?

Click to expand...

No, but it makes you non-traditional religious. You say you're Muslim, but have you thought about exploring other religions? I don't mean that in a "give up your faith/jump ship" way, I mean that in a "you should see if other religions have something you can take back to Islam in an enrichment" way.

There's elements in all religions that people can take into their "heart"/life and make their own sort-of religion. You don't need to strictly follow Islam (and it sounds like you don't want to, despite your family being very devout about it) just like you don't need to be a Buddhist to take their tenements about being a better person to heart. Maybe exploring other religions could help you reconcile your differences/annoyances with Islam or help you find a religion that you do agree with if it comes time to "jump ship?"

Depression will make you focus on the negatives in life. I am not a religious person so I don't know what I can tell you in regards to your faith. What I can say if you are as depressed as you say that will make you question your faith or just focus on the negatives. Seek medical help be it a therapist and or psychiatrist and I am willing to bet things will turn around for you.

Op just focusing on the prophet here. Honestly not sure how the prophet can be measured as a good example to lead a good life. You missed out the fact he was a warlord who conquered and killed people besides the over things you mentioned.

So you're right, he shouldn't be put on a pedestal like that.

I'm not Muslim but I think you should seek professional help, OP. Then you can clear your mind and follow your heart. If you aren't confortable in your current religion you should find another or just believe in God without following any particular religion.

Regarding your drug problems, even if you are not addicted, I believe you should stop smoking if you are feeling depressed. I'm not a doctor or anything but that might help you change your current spirit.

I prayed today for the first time in what feels like more than a week. I'm going to take the time to reply to each and every one of you to the best of my abilities.

Ahasverus said:

Your god will understand. Keep being a good person not harming others, and peace will follow you.

Click to expand...

Do you believe in god too? If not and you read any part of my post then you'd see that my god is the same god that anyone who has a religion, worships.

If not, then yeah. God understands my struggle because it understands everything but it's not really helping me as a human being right now.

RustyNails said:

I'm always here for you Artisan and really enjoyed your presence in the ramadan OT. Your posts contribute a lot. But this quote above is a red flag. You definitely should seek help. You can pm me whenever you want. But please seek help my friend.

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salaam, rusty. seeking help is not really an option right now because I don't have the time during the week to look for it. and if I did, I cannot afford it. I have to deal with the circumstances.

Numb said:

Here for you man.
These are hard times.Easy to be faithful when life is smooth. Harder when things get real.
Your cousin seems to have misunderstood and overreacted. Seems to really care about you too and a simple explanation would go far. It doesn't seem like an issue with hte stuff with you anymore either. Please do not do anything crazy you can't take back. No one knows what the future wholds and you could always try to be/do better with yourrself and those around you.

Click to expand...

you're right that it was a misunderstanding that happened with my cousin but as he says he's not interested in any more explanations. he's convinced this is a problem but he doesn't realize that he's a part of the problem and I'm not sure how and when I can break that to him.

OraleeWey said:

What are you replying to? His God will understand what?

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yeah, I'm not sure what exactly he's referring to.

Henkka said:

Can't really relate to the religion or drug angle, but you seem like an honest, thoughtful and level-headed person. The world could do with a lot more people like you, not less. Thinking it's impossible to get out of depression is a lie depression tells you.

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I try to be a down to earth person man. And I can still improve yet. Every single one of us on this earth, as modest as we are still have room for improvements. But the world is too full of people who aren't really interested in modesty but power, and I don't think I have the room in this world to fit in with that anymore.

I understand the lie you're talking about that depression is telling me. But there's nothing in my head that's giving me an opposite, a truth, telling me that there's a way around it, you know?

effingvic said:

I hope you seek and get the help you need. Depression and drug dependance are serious individual issues that require proper attention. I too enjoy your posts so please dont do anything you cant take back.

I'd also suggest avoiding the news and stuff for a while. Theres a lot of anti-Islamic stuff popping up everywhere that you dont need in your life right now.

Click to expand...

I don't think I'll be getting any professional help. No time or money for that. Also, I don't think I have any drug dependence. The last time I used was that Tuesday night when the problem with my cousin ensued and I haven't had the bodily urge to get high. Where is the dependence?

I should avoid the news because of the underlying agendas but I have to know what's going on in the world. And knowing and being aware of all this stuff that's happening, isn't making matters any better.

Amir0x said:

If you still believe God exists, then you're not Agnostic. That's someone who isn't sure if God exists one way or the other. I'm sure you're just an irreligious individual who is still a theist. I mean without trying to plumb these caves of faith significantly further, a Theist Agnostic for example is someone who believes in God but cannot be sure that they exist. Maybe that might fit you?

But more significantly, as you admit, you are suffering from depression. Depression is the absence of most or all feelings - you can't find joy in almost anything. I am an atheist, but one thing I am sure about is that if you are depressed, no matter what you desire to believe in, it's going to suck much of the motivation out of it. So before you make any big decisions about your faith or direction in life, please seek genuine help for your condition. As someone who has gone through this many times in my life, I understand that things I previously loved could offer me no joy during my worst moments. So while I don't believe, it's possible your depression is partially responsible for you seeing only the negative within your faith and is hindering your ability to make a clear minded choice on whether or not you want anything to do with it.

Click to expand...

Professional help was free when I was in college (by free I mean it came out of tuition) but now that I am out I don't have the time or money to seek counseling. I also don't want to be on any medication either because that's going to be costly as well.

It's a shame how it has to be a sort of "I can only help you if you pay me" but everyone needs to make a living, I understand, so I don't really have a choice.

Nozem said:

Yeah... that is not really how things always work, unfortunately.

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You're right. It certainly hasn't bode well for me for 24 years. At least right now that's how it feels.

RiZ III said:

Well, as a Muslim, I'd say you should listen to the Quran, it's a healing for the heart as it says itself. Whenever I have felt doubts, doing this has fixed it. Go to Quran explorer, set the arabic to mishary al Agassi, English to pickthall, set surah to Al-Isra (#17), and just listen. You could pick any surah really, that one is one of my favorites. Or listen starting around surah 73 as they are the shorter ones.

I would highly encourage you to try that OP. Everyone has ups and downs with faith, it's normal and it's also a very emotional thing when it goes down.

A few years back, I was at the lowest of lows in my life. Super depressed, my faith was shot, life was falling apart. I decided to download a Quran app and just forced myself to listen during my commute to work everyday. It was a life changing experience for me. I do it everyday. Even then when I don't listen to it for a few days, weekends or something, I start to fall back. If it wasn't for the Quran, I have no doubt that Id be an athirst. Listening to it (with translation) is what makes my faith firm and gives peace to my heart. It's no wonder the Arabs of Mecca used to call it magic lol

Click to expand...

I think it's great that Islam has helped you through your depression, but I don't think it'll work for me. First of all there's the discrepancy of the English translations never being a perfect substitute for the original Arabic. And that I don't understand the original Arabic so I'll never get the full picture out of it.

I was late to Jumma last Friday but when I went and I was listening on in the prayer it wasn't really hitting home for me the way it should have. And that was Qur'anic, of course.

Amir0x said:

I just want to reiterate this, because with Riz's comments it reminded me: Whether or not that "magical" book worked for him, do NOT follow his approach. A Bible or Qu'ran or whatever holy book is not a replacement for professional help with Depression. This is too serious an issue to play games with, since depression can end in things like suicide. That's like people who think reading the Bible and praying to God will cure their cancer or something. It does not work.

Get professional help, then read the Qu'ran and see where your faith leads you. Make those choices clear-minded.

Click to expand...

Professional help isn't really an option right now man. I had it when I was in college but now I am on my own. And there's not much that I can do on my own except reach out to people who care. I can't talk to my family about these things (especially the marijuana) and it makes things worse, having to hide all this sorrow that I have. I just don't want to be here anymore.

TheSeks said:

No, but it makes you non-traditional religious. You say you're Muslim, but have you thought about exploring other religions? I don't mean that in a "give up your faith/jump ship" way, I mean that in a "you should see if other religions have something you can take back to Islam in an enrichment" way.

There's elements in all religions that people can take into their "heart"/life and make their own sort-of religion. You don't need to strictly follow Islam (and it sounds like you don't want to, despite your family being very devout about it) just like you don't need to be a Buddhist to take their tenements about being a better person to heart. Maybe exploring other religions could help you reconcile your differences/annoyances with Islam or help you find a religion that you do agree with if it comes time to "jump ship?"

Click to expand...

The oneness of God in Islam makes more sense to me than the holy trinity in Christianity. I don't know too much about Judaism but it is of my understanding that a lot of beliefs in that religion overlaps with Islam. Which makes me wonder if they are inherently different religions at all. So in short, no, I didn't really consider exploring other options, I don't think they would help for the sole purpose as I was explaining in the OP: everyone's got an agenda, everyone. If I approached missionaries or something like that, unfortunately I feel like they would just take advantage of my uncertainties to try and make me jump ship as you suggested, instead of trying to help me with my deeper psychological issues (for the purpose of helping me with faith).

redlegs87 said:

Depression will make you focus on the negatives in life. I am not a religious person so I don't know what I can tell you in regards to your faith. What I can say if you are as depressed as you say that will make you question your faith or just focus on the negatives. Seek medical help be it a therapist and or psychiatrist and I am willing to bet things will turn around for you.

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I saw therapists for about 5 years in college and I think it did help but I can't do that now. Maybe I'll start being religious again one day but right now it isn't in my heart to do so. And if I do go back to it, I don't know if I can call myself a Muslim because while I do believe in God and Islam makes the most sense to me as a belief system (but not everything about it, and not saying the other religions are automatically wrong because of it), I just do not agree with some of the things that it teaches. I don't know.

funkypie said:

Op just focusing on the prophet here. Honestly not sure how the prophet can be measured as a good example to lead a good life. You missed out the fact he was a warlord who conquered and killed people besides the over things you mentioned.

So you're right, he shouldn't be put on a pedestal like that.

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Maybe others can agree or disagree. I wanted to see if there'd be a few more opinions on this.

Ganzlinger said:

I'm not Muslim but I think you should seek professional help, OP. Then you can clear your mind and follow your heart. If you aren't confortable in your current religion you should find another or just believe in God without following any particular religion.

Regarding your drug problems, even if you are not addicted, I believe you should stop smoking if you are feeling depressed. I'm not a doctor or anything but that might help you change your current spirit.

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Marijuana doesn't hurt my depression when I go into it in a good mood. If I am in a bad mood and decide to do it then it would be a bad idea. But I haven't gotten high since. And honestly speaking I don't think I could find comfort in a different religion. In fact, that would bring up a whole nother issue because as bad as it is with my parents that I've drifted away from Islam, they'd seriously throw a fit if I started practicing another religion and that would be another thing for me to deal with.

I don't think turning to a religion is ever a positive step in mental health, you should find help in people that trust you and will don't harshly judge you, live your life by your terms, I think we only get one life and that we shouldn't waste it.

I do find the Quran helps me when im down but you should seek professional help and continue to be around your friends/family and turn to faith representatives you respect to facilitate professional help you receive. A turning point for me was when i stopped listening to the dogmatic version i was fed as a child and turned towards a more liberal, open version which has helped me and continues to keep my mood in check. I read books from non muslims about Islam i find them much easier to digest as they're not preachy, though there are exceptions. Books by Karen Armstrong, Tariq Ramdaan are a good start.

I believe we (especially us that have been brought up in the west) go through this phase, its funny i have far more respect for my faith by finding out on my own then what i was forced fed, coming back, realising im better off working towards being a great human coincides with being a great muslim. It helps that my family members became more liberal as time went on too, we often have really good debates and raise all sorts of concerns.

Also, i do love the community, there's nothing like Eid/Ramdaan with the family, praying and speaking about my troubles to God calms me, its a positive in my life.

funkypie said:

Op just focusing on the prophet here. Honestly not sure how the prophet can be measured as a good example to lead a good life. You missed out the fact he was a warlord who conquered and killed people besides the over things you mentioned.

So you're right, he shouldn't be put on a pedestal like that.

Click to expand...

Id ignore this too, debated this a million times so i wont go into it again, just watch this op: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012mkh7/episodes/guide

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVGieY0W6lY Good documentary from BBC. Detailed look at his past with facts and accounts by historians.

OP, regarding your Masjid, i think they're treating him in a way he asked not to be, so id disagree with them positioning our Prophet on the same level as God.

Having faith helps for some people, but not all. Even prophets get depressed.

There are many different types of depression and all should be dealt with accordingly.

I wish you happiness brother.

I don't know if I can call myself a Muslim because while I do believe in God

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If you believe in the shahadah you are a muslim, even if you don't agree with what others tell you is part of Islam.

Seek help.

A person with your condition and situation should not be left alone to face his depression all by himself.

Seek professional help. Seek religious help. I personally know a good many deal of people finding calm and happiness in Islam whereas before they are living a depressed, chaotic life, but to reiterate: seek help.

You have clinical depression. That's nothing to be ashamed of, it's a medical condition that's very real and very dangerous and you need to talk to a psychiatrist and a doctor about ways you can deal with it.

I struggle a lot with my relationship with god. I tend to waffle in my levels of faith because of it (I don't feel comfortable talking about it on here but PM's and the like I'm always willing). But I know that my depression is a fleeting thing. A condition. Something that's fixable.

You aren't trapped brother. There are ways out. But you need to reach out and get help to get them. And if you need a place to just, well, talk, neoGAF and other forums and stuff are good places to just get things off your chest that you otherwise might not have.

I agree with the others, you need to talk to somebody. I have depression as well, and while it's very different for everyone, what helps me is just writing it all out (as a means to externalize it) and trying to do what makes me happy and gives me fulfillment in life. We're around the same age and I'm an only child as well (I'm 25), and yeah, college debts and the future terrify me too, but I'm trying. As pessimistic as the world around us may seem most of the time, we gotta faith that it'll all work out in the end.

I also recommend taking pills. I've tried a few and I'm currently on Exulin (for depression and anxiety). I can only speak for myself, but I've come to terms with my symptoms. I know that I'll always have depression, but with my cooperation, I've become better at controlling it (the pills do help).

It'll all work out. Keep going, get help (no matter what it takes), and have faith in yourself. There's not much I can be of help in terms of religious beliefs. I'm an atheist and I knew very early on in life that I wasn't religious. With that said, I'm Mexican, and so there's really no differentiation with Roman Catholicism (meaning that I'll always be Catholic in some form or fashion). Ironically, I find religion incredibly comforting (despite my differences), if only because I greatly appreciate art and I like being around people that believe in something powerful. It's nice.

I don't know if all that helps. Depression sucks. It's inconsistent. Just remind yourself that it'll always get better.

Also, you're a cool person for that Jay Z reference.

The Artisan said:

Part of the reason may be because my parents practice the religion very dogmatically and when that's pressed upon me it makes me not want to do it. For instance, if it is prayer time and my father tells me to pray, it makes me not want to pray. I don't want to worship God because someone is telling me to. I want to worship God because I find it in my heart to do so.

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The Quran always supersedes and overrides the Hadiths in any contradictory cases. And the Quran says this.

The Artisan said:

That's part of it, but another part stems from the criticisms of the religion itself. For instance, while I know for sure that Jews and Christians are referred to as people of the book, I have simultaneously heard that very violent passages in the Qur'an still exist to those who oppose belief. And I never really see a good counterargument to it.

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The violent passages are usually almost always taken out of context. It's more about self-defense than it is about offense.

2:190
Pickthall: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

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2:191
Pickthall: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

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2:193
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

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The Artisan said:

Or the whole "72 virgins" thing. The same thing with the prophet marrying a young girl. I don't ever hear a good explanation for any of these things.

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The age of Aisha at the time of marriage (and later consummation) is somewhat disputed. The legal/socially acceptable age for marriage also varies across time, culture, and society. Even today, in Texas, an 80 year old man can technically marry a 14 year old girl (legally).

What's important is that Islam doesn't mandate marrying young girls, and it is perfectly acceptable to ascribe to a specific age range for marriage in accordance with what modern society considers socially acceptable. On top of that, the prophet had 10 other wives besides Aisha, most of them widows, who were not young-aged so it's not like he actively sought out a specific age range. Not to mention, he did not marry a second time until his first wife, Khadijah, passed away who was 15 years older than him.

Last year, when I was still in college, a classmate of mine passed away. I wasn't close with her but towards the end of the spring semester I interacted with her a lot because we were direct partners in a project of 5 or 6 people. I wanted a prayer for her to be included one Friday so I texted the president or vice president of the MSA. His first question was: "Was she Muslim?"

I don't think that should've mattered, but the answer was no. His response was, he's sorry to hear about her loss but he can't announce the request to do dua for her. That still, to this day, pisses me off.

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This is a good read.

The Artisan said:

I feel like my mental state is deteriorating. I have a lot of student loans to pay back which I barely begun to do and on top of that, a whole bunch of parent plus loans under my father's name which nelnet simply can't consolidate into mine which puts me and my family in a sticky situation because there's absolutely no way my father will be able to pay back those loans.

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It sucks to be in that situation and, unfortunately, a lot of people are.
All I can say is persevere and be strong. Look to expand your horizons. If your current job is stressing you out, work harder and get yourself placed in an even better job. Remain friendly with your job contacts, network a lot, and look out for promotions or other opportunities that can take you higher.

It seems we are similar in a lot of ways OP. I grew up in a religious(Islamic) environment, but I was also spoiled by my parents. I have had doubts with the religion since young age. But unlike you, I grew up in the middle east in a conservtive country. I saw and heard a lot of things that made me dislike a lot about our religion and culture. It was really hard for me to let go of my faith, but I did. I have never been happier. I recommend facing your doubts about your faith and make a final decision of what you want to do.

But the most important thing to note is that it's not even your biggest issues right now. It seems you are battling some form of depression that might really end up getting you hurt. Seek professional help before I that happens, then worry about faith. Just know that we are all on the same boat. Don't fear the unknown or death because everyone goes through it. Praying or believing in things does not make you worse or better than another person. I have seen terrible people who have done terrible things, but have never missed a prayer. Work on being a good person, and see where things go.

I understand that you feel you don't have the money to get help, but try.

Here is a link to a resource that has lots of links and tips to get affordable mental health help: http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/c/84292/70431/money-insurance .

I'm sure there is more out there, just look for it, or post a general idea on your location and I'll try to help find stuff. You know you need help, don't make excuses as you won't always be able to, start looking for help now.

Also, in your OP you say you're not addicted to weed and two or three paragraphs later say you have an addiction to it, stay away from it. Don't put yourself in situations where you might falter, just stay away from it and people you know that use it.

As for your religion, that is something you need to look at apart from anything else. When I was feeling most depressed I would go to church even though I'm not really religious. I believe in God, but don't really share the same faith most church goers do. While reading and learning about religions though I will say that I really admire Muslims and how devoted they usually are to their faith, praying five times a day, fasting for so long, the way they care for the Qur'an. Everything, just so dedicated and really life consuming, most practicing Muslims I know really do have faith and practice it. If that isn't for you that is fine, I wish I could have that much faith but I really don't.

Wish you the best and hope you seek out help. There is help out there, just please take some time to look. At least go to a community health center near you and ask, they will probably be able to get you in your way to something you can afford.

Hey dude, if you're ever feeling low, want some religious discussion, someone to vent to, help out or advise, just PM me, or PM me your WhatsApp number and we can talk there. Sometimes talking about completely unrelated stuff, or setting aside random side goals can really help too.

Recently, even though I'm doing well financially, I realised I basically stopped doing everything I love just to make the bucks, and that coupled with the social life I left behind during Uni days, was bringing me down (first world problems I know lol). Thankfully I started a few new projects in the last few months (the idea being to launch a few products via Kickstarter), and even though it's basically extra work occupying even more of my time, at least I find it fun and creative, and it's what I like doing (drawing, designing etc).

Regarding the religious side of things, don't feel bad about neglecting it, we all have those moments and go through those sorts of difficult times, where we not only neglect, but question altogether. If you needed and need time to focus on you for a bit, to help get yourself in a better place, that's not a bad thing. However I would not recommend completely shunning the religious side of things altogether, as sometimes it can offer some peace of mind, distraction and something to inject just that little bit of extra calm, discipline, down time and selflessness.

Often when I've felt shitty, just spending time with family, not just mum dad etc, but inviting cousins, sister, bro in law etc around, or going over to theirs, if not to play video games, to watch a movie, play cards, poker etc (bare in mind we still pray jammat together), or jamming at the mosque talking and joking with random brothers, praying a bit more than usual etc. Such things have often given me a bit more solace and peace of mind, reminding me there's more to it all than just the grind, bills, money, materialism etc.

Asalaamu alaikum. I read your post and it really struck a chord with me. I want to say that I can relate. Obviously, no one can fully understand your situation except for you and for God. But I definitely empathize with you. A little background info about me: I'm a convert of 4 yrs and some change and late last year I got out of a really abusive and toxic 2 yr relationship to someone I was religiously married to.

Before I got married I had been Muslim for 2yrs. I loved Islam and I loved to pray even if I didn't do it 100% of the time. I was really passionate about my religion and my identity as a Muslim. I watched lectures. I fasted during Ramadhan despite the harsh conditions my stepdad put me through. I went to the mosque any chance I got. I prayed and read Qur'an. I would consider myself a dedicated believer.

So then I got married (not gonna go into the details of the whole relationship and how I got into it etc. as it doesn't really serve a purpose for this particular post). But shortly after my religious (not legal) marriage I moved in with my husband's family. That's when everything started to change. He started to become very abusive in every sense of the word (sexually, verbally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually). I felt isolated and like I had nowhere to go. I suffered through extreme depression. I even made suicidal gestures. I hated what I had let myself become (an angry and bitter person). Anyways, he did a lot of horrible things, but one of the worst abuses he put me through was spiritual abuse. That's the thing that has lasted the longest and had the most impact.

Similar to how you described, I felt forced to pray. If I didn't pray, then he would say that's the reason "bad things happened". I started praying all the 5 prayers everyday plus sunnah. I was memorizing Qur'an more than I had ever before. But I felt so empty inside doing it. I wasn't doing it because I genuinely wanted to do it. I was doing it because someone told me I had to do so and that I was a bad person if I didn't.

After I left the relationship. I stopped praying altogether. I slowly started relaxing on hijab. I stopped doing a lot of things. This brought me so much shame. I started to think to myself "Can I even consider myself Muslim anymore?" I felt really conflicted inside because I believed in Allah and the Qur'an, but I felt Islam had been tainted for me by the experience I had. I felt that how can I ever gain my sincerity in prayer back? And on top of that there were so many things I disagreed with that many Muslims say is what "Islam" is. I felt like there was just this list of halaals and haraams. And that the Muslims around me had very black and white thinking. I hated it.

What I've finally learned through all this though was that only we define ourselves. If you believe you are a Muslim, then you are. You don't have to pray 5 times a day every single day to be a Muslim. God is forgiving. Allah understands the struggles of people and doesn't expect more out of a person than they can bare. I say this because of my interpretations of what I've read from the Qur'an. That's the thing. Everyone has their own interpretation, and I believe that God made us with the ability to reason and think for ourselves.

So to address your feelings about the negative verses in the Qur'an:

1. English doesn't do justice to the original Arabic text.
2. Everyone like I said before can have their own interpretation of what something says.
3. A lot of those verses are taken out of context and used by both Muslim and Non-Muslims to propagate their own agendas *whether that be violence, opppression, or racism*

To address your feelings about prayer:
1. Do what you feel is right. If you don't want pray, don't force on it yourself. Let it come to you naturally. (I haven't been praying very often, but when I do...I usually have a very emotional and sincere connection now that I stopped feeling guilty all the time about it and let it come naturally).
2. Just because you're not praying today doesn't mean you won't tomorrow. (I used to let the idea that I missed fajr stop me from praying all the other prayers. I thought to myself well I missed one so why even bother? My day is already ruined.) This is perfectionism. Each prayer matters by itself. So even doing one is better than none. Even thinking of doing one is better than not thinking at all. *again this just my feeling on the matter*
3. If you don't understand the Arabic, perhaps read it in a language that you can understand while you're praying so that you can feel that you actually know what you're saying vs just repeated something you memorized.
4. When you pray...try to shut all other thoughts of the day. Let this be a time of meditation almost. A time where you don't care about the rest of the world. It's just you and God.

To address your marijuana problem:

Before I became Muslim I smoked a lot of weed, too. Even after I became Muslim I struggled to not smoke it anymore. This past year even I got high one time. These things though...they don't make you not a Muslim. But I do suggest that you seek help *sometimes there are self help groups that are free of cost*. I say this because it's not good to use marijuana or any drug as a method of coping. However, don't beat yourself up too much about it. You're not a bad person for smoking weed or using it to cope.

To address your identity problem:

Only you can determine what you are. If you are a Muslim, then you are a Muslim. It's wrong for anyone else to call you a disbeliever. And honestly that's their problem and shows more about them than it does about you. Let's look at piety like a scale from a-z. "A" being the highest and "Z" being the lowest. To the outsider someone who went from "C" to "A" would be really an amazing, pious believer. But then a person who goes from "Z" to "J" to the outsider might not look all that pious. I mean they're only at "J" right? But it took the person who started out at "Z" a lot more to get where they are, then it did the person who went to "C". Allah takes into account all of these things and doesn't just judge everyone by the same standard. That wouldn't be fair. What if someone is suffering from depression? It's much harder for them to pray, then someone who is perfectly happy and healthy.

Other advices:
1. Deactivate your facebook. I know it can be hard, but honestly facebook is the worst thing for someone suffering from an episode of depression.
2. Try as much as possible to stop reading the news.
3. Seek out professional help if at all possible. Maybe stop by social services and see if they can help you at all with this.
4. Try as best as you can to cut out the toxic people in your life. The people who are not willing to support you.
5. Take things slowly and at your own pace.


I know it's hard right now. And it feels like what's the point..I'll never find true happiness. I know because I've been there so many times. But as long as you are alive there is always a chance for change and a chance to find happiness. You truly never know what will happen and change in your life. I told you in the beginning about how I was in a 2 yr relationship full of abuse. I really thought there was no hope. But now I'm in the best relationship ever. I'm married to a wonderful man who is understanding and patient. We are expecting are first child in two weeks. And I'm far away from the situation I was in before. I couldn't have ever predicted that this is what would've happened. I still suffer through some depressive episodes and anxiety as a result of many things that have happened in my life, but I made it. I'm still making it. And I'm happy (despite the occasional suicidal thought) that I never went through with killing myself all those previous times. I have hope for you, and I am here for you. Please PM if you want to talk more or need someone to listen to you vent or for anything.

I know that this was a long and probably not well put together post, and I'm sorry for that. I just felt a strong urge to send this.

The Artisan said:

Last year, when I was still in college, a classmate of mine passed away. I wasn't close with her but towards the end of the spring semester I interacted with her a lot because we were direct partners in a project of 5 or 6 people. I wanted a prayer for her to be included one Friday so I texted the president or vice president of the MSA. His first question was: "Was she Muslim?"

I don't think that should've mattered, but the answer was no. His response was, he's sorry to hear about her loss but he can't announce the request to do dua for her. That still, to this day, pisses me off.

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I had a similar experience in which a sheikh tried to say that I couldn't make duaa for my parents because they are non-Muslim. Honestly, I think that this comes from a place of ignorance and insensitivity. It's very easy for them to say oops sorry can't make duaa for them...because it's not their family or their friends. Allah hears and knows all things, so I say make duaa for whomever you want.

The Artisan said:

The oneness of God in Islam makes more sense to me than the holy trinity in Christianity. I don't know too much about Judaism but it is of my understanding that a lot of beliefs in that religion overlaps with Islam. Which makes me wonder if they are inherently different religions at all.

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Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all based on the Canaanite and Babylonian polytheism.
One of these gods found in old polytheism was Yahweh(sabaoth), called the great warrior/god of armies out of the many gods. This resulted in soldiers and warriors praying to this god. Soldiers get around and spread their views of who was the strongest god and who you needed to get through times of danger. Most evidence point to that King Josiah, a Yawehist himself, needed to gather the people in a time of need and then suddenly "discovered" a new book/text where Yahweh was the only god, and demanded that all other gods should be destroyed, including their believers, idols and temples. So again the soldiers would spread the word of Yahweh seeking out towns etc.who didn't worship the true god and make them understand, by killing, raping and destroying their temples spreading the loving word of Yahweh... So this is pretty much that times ISIS/Daesh.

Later they would mash several of the old gods together rewrite the texts so stories of other gods(like Marduk, El Elyon, Asherah, Baal) was suddenly the stories and deeds of Yahweh.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam was then born from this scripture later, by different rulers with different opinions that changed the text to their liking.
this is ofc, a very simplified explanation

Regarding faith:
Don't bother with religion as an institution. As soon as it becomes a group of people with a hierarchy, it stops becoming between you and God and it starts becoming political.
I suggest reading again parts of the Quran that make you feel good, or even studying Abrahamic religions theologically, historically and skeptically (which has become my favorite past-time). Don't let religion, culture and politics become mixed together for you, or you will lose the original message. And if that means you must make yourself an enemy of other people, then I suggest suggesting them to read the Quran more closely.

Regarding depression:
Pick up a new activity that fits with what you enjoy. You're more the science type? Then research scientifical subjects by yourself, or join up a science forum board, or something. To each their own, personally I'm also the depressed type but it has been getting much better recently. You might even manage to replace your drug habits by whatever hobby you find, which would be perfect.

Fight the good fight and don't let your surroundings affect you!
There is only so much you can do in one lifetime, don't let these things slow you down.

The following errors occurred with your submission:
The text that you have entered is too long (24113 characters). Please shorten it to 24000 characters long.

well I never thought I'd see this error message on a forum. I was going to respond to all of you in a post but I wonder if I should PM or just do a few at a time.

By the way, I want to thank each and every one of you for the support and taking the time to post responses. Doesn't matter if you read the whole of the OP and if you did, it means a lot to me as well.

Like I said, we're technically all strangers on the internet but I wish well upon everyone here and sincerely hope that everyone does the best for themselves in their personal lives as well.

Hope for the best for you man.

As a former Muslim and what people call "apatheist"(I know, I hate the term too) I understand the pain of realizing you don't believe it.

I wasn't even raised in a religious household. My parents are Muslim like some Americans are Protestants. They believe it but don't practice it. But the country being the most conservative in the world and full of levels of brain washing you sometimes experience what former cultists call painful moments of clarity. It's not for you, and hasn't been all this time. So adjusting to that mentality takes a lot out of you.

Not saying you should leave, OP. But we all experience this from one time to another to varying degrees. You're not alone. And I'm here is you ever want to talk.

Nozem said:

Yeah... that is not really how things always work, unfortunately.

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It's the best place to start.

I want to ask you OP. Are you in a relationship? I wasn't depressed but I wasn't as happy as I am now before finding my gf. Now I am just happy being with her and doing simple things like having stupid discussions or watching a movie. I think religion has nothing to do with your mood, it is probably making things worse, don't try to find answer in religion for your sadness it might lead you in a dark path of becoming a fanatical and you won't get any response. People who suffer from depression, like you, are easy victims to people who can take advantage of you by promising to you that you will find what you seek for. What you need is to distance yourself from that and find a person who you care for and who cares for you, at least that is my advice, goodluck on your life.

A common cause for depression is grief. You starting to feel like you're distancing yourself from your religion can be a grievung process that you're not completely through with and maybe not entirely realize yet.

I'm not a Muslim, but I too like to think that all monotheism must be directed to the same entity, because there is only one.

It's normal to have doubts.

I feel closer to God when I pray by myself than when I'm with a group.
My wife feels the opposite way and I think everyone has his own road to walk on.

It could be that I need to put forth a better effort.

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Sometimes you need to do things that are requires effort so you can feel the satisfaction of having accomplished something.
My first math teacher at university used to say now and then "Be courageous!"

He's thoroughly convinced I'm an addict. But he's wrong, and no, I'm not in denial.

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Maybe that's a lie.

If your cousin matter to you, you probably need to meet him halfway. Ask him if he could help you quit and spend some time with him without using. Let's not pretend this will last forever but take it a day at a time and go from there.

I feel like my mental state is deteriorating. I have a lot of student loans to pay back which I barely begun to do and on top of that, a whole bunch of parent plus loans under my father's name which nelnet simply can't consolidate into mine which puts me and my family in a sticky situation because there's absolutely no way my father will be able to pay back those loans.

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Money is not a reason to feel depressed.
Your parents spent that money because they care about you.
It would be terrible for them if anything happened to you.

Further disclosure; I'm 48 and have 4 children about your age and 6 grandchildren, one of whom my wife and I are raising.

I know that thought process is wrong, but if someone is so miserable with life no matter how positive it may be, if their mentality is a living hell, is it really wrong for them to want out? To let go? I'm not looking for a way out but my mind is unhinged enough that I really don't want to go any further. Because nothing will bring me true happiness. I won't get a second chance to go back, and I cannot get out of this depression.

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The future is always closed to us, but it's the only direction we have.

The spirit and the mind are 2 different things.
You need to focus your will. Rediscover what you want and experience a world you never imagined on the way there.

For me, prayers have always been a mean to rise above feelings.
Happiness will come in time.

I can recommend the words of Kahlil Gibran, although apparently not a Muslim at least an arab.
(I always thought he was a Muslim.)

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/gibran/prophet/prophet.htm

It's look I won't have the time to respond to everyone tonight.

Once more, I'd like to thank everyone who took their time and participated here and gave their support. I'm really sorry I couldn't back to all of you right away, including those of you who PMed me, and now it makes me feel bad because you've put forth the effort to help me and I haven't been able to give my own personal feedback.

But I promise to get back to everyone, hopefully by the end of the week.

Thank you again.

In the end of the day, as Muslim, its that the religion itself gives me hope and purpose. Thinks are hard? It will get better (in this life or/and afterlife), Why am I good person? because my religion told me so. I don't (normally) lie, steal or do bad things because of the religion and how I was raised from childhood.

The problem you might have OP is that you haven't met a decent Muslim yer, the good ones who should be calling themselves Muslims are the ones that makes you have that bright spark in life. Its the people you hang out with that just gives life a meaning.

Also, another thing is that, many Muslim don't realise is that, you don't have to be best Muslim out there. Start simple. Just pray 5 times a day and go from there. Stop thinking it as relegios thing and make it more of a schedule. Everything comes after that easier.

But again, I have taken my life for granted and cannot rlate to other people who have difficulties in life (and with the belief itself) so I am not sure how helpful this is, but hopefully you will get your answers one day.

I am theologically in the same boat OP. I believe in god and his oneness and his prophet but beyond that it gets hairy. So many things in the Quran, tradition, and history that I just can't disgust or keep making up excuses for. The funny thing is, I used to be hardcore muslim until around I was 16. I was in school for memorizing the quran for ffs. Although I still consider myself a muslim culturally, I hate organized religion and can not stand a lot of the bullshit

Good thing is, I stopped caring few years ago and it doesn't bother me anymore. True, I can't say these things honestly to my parents because it would cause them too much hurt but I guess we all gotta wear our masks sometimes. LIke alfred says, "Sometimes the truth isn't good enough".

I feel more at peace ever since I realized that nobody got all the answers and certain things in Islam are inherently contradictory. When you stop defending illogical notions, both to others and yourself, and just consider them as what they are i.e. religious principles which don't have to make sense, the internal struggle becomes a lot less complicated.

I would say this, If there is a god, I am about 100% sure that first thing he would like from us would be to not be assholes to others. And yes, when your shift your center of mortality from "doing goods things to get into heaven" to "doing good things because that just the right thing to do" , it does feel a lot better.

As for your question to what does that make you, who the fuck cares. I feel people put too much emphasis on putting themselves into these categories. The existence or inexistence of god doesn't really change the fact that our purpose in this world is to do good and be good. However sometimes I think I should call myself an apatheist.

have to cut everyone's posts short as quotes because of the limitations of a single post.

Hipster Cthulhu said:

I don't think turning to a religion is ever a positive step in mental health, you should find help in people that trust you and will don't harshly judge you, live your life by your terms, I think we only get one life and that we shouldn't waste it.

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It's difficult for me because these are problems that I can't really reach out to anyone for. I can't really talk to my family about it and it seems like the good friends I have while they may have my back, aren't all that close with me after all. I recently caught up with a friend of mine who knows better than many of my other friends the stuff that I go through and talking to her did genuinely make me feel better.

Jumeira said:

I do find the Quran helps me when im down but you should seek professional help and continue to be around your friends/family and turn to faith representatives you respect to facilitate professional help you receive....

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The phase of drifting from the faith yes I'm sure a lot of us go through it, especially depending on how religious your parents brought you up to be. But I don't know about Muslim Americans and depression, and/or drug problems. I don't know a whole lot of others who have been through this like I have. Not saying they aren't out there.

There's a specific word for it but it's a part of depression that makes me really fucking lazy. I have to start watching tutorials about excel but I haven't even gotten around to that when I have the time. I'm only saying this because maybe I'll want to read those books but I'll never get around to it.

It is great to hear that Islam has helped you for the better though. Perhaps one day I'll start practicing it more but I need to better understand it first. I don't think a person is indoctrinated just because they are religious, but it is possible. Not every religion person is though. It depends on how they react to someone who disagrees or challenges their own beliefs, without coming off as disrespectful.

as for my masjid, they may not be literally placing the prophet in the same level as God but the way they have his name decorated, it just comes off as too high to me. But in my experience, talking to those Islamically in charge won't make much of a difference. They're just going to give me some argument that I can't argue with. Not because I think they're right but because some people you just can't argue with because it just gets nasty.

ZiZ said:

Having faith helps for some people, but not all. Even prophets get depressed....

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Thank you for the well wishes. But I don't know if I want to call myself a Muslim anymore. Maybe one day, although I heard if you renounce your faith you cannot return to it. But I do believe in god and to me Islam in terms of describing god, makes the most sense to me. And it is the religion I was brought up in.

Laughing Banana said:

Seek help...

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Thank you for your concern, but again, seeking help is not an option because I don't have the time or money to put resources into it. Right now in my life I don't know if religion can help me but I do want to have it in my life again one day. If I even ever make it that far.

Frozenprince said:

You have clinical depression....

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It really feels like I am trapped though, brother...is it really wrong to want out though? I asked RustyNails the same question. If someone really feels as though they do not belong why is it wrong for them to want to leave?

The things keeping me are the fact that I am an only child, and I am loved by many people in my family, and I have debts to pay (student loans) and I shudder at who would receive the burden, should something happen to me.

hugocésar;188102820 said:

I agree with the others, you need to talk to somebody.....

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sounds like you are in a similar boat to mine, but you've figured out how to better yourself in it. i was on pristiq for a while but I was able to get off it. I don't know if I want to get on medication again because that would just be another expense that I cannot handle. Talking to people does help, especially people who care, it helps for me to know that there is someone out there who knows what I am dealing with but it is not something I can tell to people who are closest to me. The people who I can tell, although I know they care for me, they aren't the closest, and have their own lives to live too. It makes me sound and feel like a really needy person, but the reality is that I think I am.

and thanks. you're a cool person too =]

Sayah said:

The Quran always supersedes and overrides the Hadiths in any contradictory cases. And the Quran says this....

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I'll be honest, I am not completely sure what that passage is teaching. What is your interpretation? I'm probably just not thinking clearly.

As for the Qur'anic passages about violence, it's probably true that most of them are taken out of context but do such passages exist in the bible as well? If they do, why is Islamic terrorism such a thing? There is a group on facebook known as Acts 17 and they try to say that isis are faithful to islam, practicing it correctly. it's nonsense to me only because I can tell that it's just a group with an agenda to defame Islam, but looking at these passages that you posted, I guess they seem semi-sensible if it is just out of self-defense but seeing the word "slay" still to me sounds a bit barbaric. of course if someone is trying to slay you then you have to fight back to stay alive but why then is the Qur'an always referred to as a violent book in general?

That article does look like a good read. I started reading it, up to the part about Indonesia's respondents and the lackthereof from Middle Eastern countries. I'll give the whole thing a go but lemme ask you this first: do you think the VP of my msa was in the wrong for what he said? if so, why would he say it? how would his devotion to his religion draw him to say he can't pray for a non-Muslim if it is wrong to think that way?

I am most certainly going to be looking for other work, should probably spend a lot of time this weekend maybe tomorrow doing so. but lemme ask this again: if someone wants out, is it really wrong? why is it wrong if they simply don't want to live anymore?

GameAddict411 said:

It seems we are similar in a lot of ways OP...

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yeah, sounds like we came up in the same other than the fact that religion drifted from you earlier on and you're from a conservative country. Since I do believe in god and I want to connect with it, I feel that organized religion is the way to do so but my issue is that I have such a bad impression on the way organized religion is, well, organized or put to order. I can't be a good Muslim without other Muslims' help, and I can't talk to other Muslims about my perspective because it challenges the way they've been practicing.

now, that's all that I really have time for right now, there are several of you whom I still haven't responded to, and I'm sorry that after more than half a month I have not replied. Just know for now that it means a lot to me that you all took the time to write responses to me, I feel like a dick for not getting back to you yet, but I promise I will. I have been posting on regular stuff in gaf, but I haven't had as much free time as I once did.

my girlfriend is pretty devout, so I asked her, 'Is eating a gorilla haraam, bae?"

If you're questioning your faith, there are other formerly religious people here who found their way out that would love to help. Maybe we should have a deconversion OT.

I'm subscribing because I know the least about Islam and its adherents of all the Abrahamic religions, and I'd love to learn more directly from those who are experienced with it.

Muzy72 said:

my girlfriend is pretty devout, so I asked her, 'Is eating a gorilla haraam, bae?"

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Nice bump bro

HiredN00bs said:

If you're questioning your faith, there are other formerly religious people here who found their way out that would love to help. Maybe we should have a deconversion OT.

I'm subscribing because I know the least about Islam and its adherents of all the Abrahamic religions, and I'd love to learn more directly from those who are experienced with it.

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Muslim OT.

Muzy72 said:

my girlfriend is pretty devout, so I asked her, 'Is eating a gorilla haraam, bae?"

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What a bizarre bump...

what a ridiculous bump

Hahaaaa I get ittt!!! Lmao!!! PMing that post to kisaya

HiredN00bs said:

If you're questioning your faith, there are other formerly religious people here who found their way out that would love to help. Maybe we should have a deconversion OT.

I'm subscribing because I know the least about Islam and its adherents of all the Abrahamic religions, and I'd love to learn more directly from those who are experienced with it.

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if you're looking to subscribe to an OT, I think there is one for both the Muslim and ex Muslim communities, lemme see if I can find them for you

also yeah...that was a weird bump

edit: looks like Rusty took care of the first one