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The most logical NX control innovation for Nintendo ?

orioto

Good Art™
So let's be crazy, i'll make a thread about that cause i want people to think about that idea.

Let's say there IS a control gimmick, an innovation in the NX, that is big enough so Nintendo wants to avoid leaks. Something that can create a difference, that would explain some rumors we had about their confidence in the product.

If you really think about it, the innovation model for Nintendo has been simple. Pick a tech that is there, not expensive, but nobody's doing anything with it. It worked for ds and wii.

In that regard, VR is interesting, but not for VR in itself. Rather for techs used in VR.

One of the potential non crazy scifi thing Nintendo could have, that none other have right now.. is tool assisted head/eyes tracking. It's never really talked about (cause maybe i'm the only fool thinking that....) but beyond vr immersive qualities, the oculus was revolutionnary for me, control wise, when the dev used really well the head gyro. When done right, being able to control subtly something (see Vanguard V and Proton Pulse, both from Justin Moravetz) with slight head rotation IS, to me, the most intuitive, natural way i've ever controlled something in a game. That and it lets you control some things (a visor, or even elements of the game, or the camera, or select a part or a character in game) while having both your hands free.

This could absolutely be a game changer for every kind of game. It's basically the wiimote pointer except it's perfectly natural to aim AND let you use a real pad in the same time for other things. The pointer could have been incredible but it wasn't cause it's just not intuitive to aim from your hand! Now doind it wit your head ? It's the most natural thing ever.

So let's imagine what that means in a soccer game, a fps.. ect. You can even imagine some hack and slash where you naturally, effortlessly aim at the guy you want to kick. Every game can benefit from it. It would probably give every game the ultimate control method. Pikmin ? Star Fox ? (I defy anyone having tried Vanguard V to not think, Star Fox needs this). Metroid obviously. That would actualyl be a next gen control. You can even go crazy, and think about, i don't know, a fighting game where you do different moves by aiming at different parts of your adversary. It wouldn't work with the wiimote, for exemple, but it works with that. Being able to pick things, or areas, effortlessly, on top of the classic control, can add a never seen before depth to every type of control.

I'm just saying, what if NX little trick is a little tool (something you put on top of your ear with a gyro and a little captor) that allows head control. (it could go farther and allow eye control but i think it's more complicated). At least THIS is, right now, a tech that is cheap, usable, and nobody's doing it. That would be the perfect Nintendo innovation.

People always go to far, and look for the complicated futuristic thing. People will talk to you about eye control of course. But it's super complicated and maybe even a little weird to control things with your eyes. While the head control is here, super simple to do, and it works. There are example of it, right now already.

Now, maybe, the limit of my theory is that people tried that and hated it lol. But it seems proton Pulse is pretty popular on many VR devices. And when you think about it, initially, controlling a block, in a breakout game, with your head.. seems like the worse idea ever. Except is super easy and accurate to play!

I'm saying that, i'm saying nothing.
(Oh and guess what,if the tool is something discrete, it could work the exact same way for the portable, isn't it crazy..)

(And i forgot a little something about it to. With that tech, you can finally have the famous desktop vr effect in all your games. As you move your head, the perspective change accordingly. I still think THIS is more impressive and realistic than stereo 3D actually). THAt in itself could add the little graphical / immersive gimmick that would make NX ports special.
 
Nintendo doesn't have a lot of first-person perspective games, so implementing VR-esque control means are not the logical thing to do for them - although I have to admit, head tracking or sight tracking sounds good.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
All the buttons have been replaced with tiny resistive touch screens for true multi touch gameplay!
 

balohna

Member
I almost just want motion++. I kind of missed having a motion-based console this gen, and thought it would have been cool if the Wii U was just a more powerful Wii with better motion controls.
 

10k

Banned
It'll be the scrollable wheels and interchangeable buttons and sticks like the Xbox one elite controller.
 
I'd like a console that is absurdly convenient and affordable. I don't really care if Nintendo innovates with their controls.

Digital purchases? Tied to your account, not to your device. Wanna play those games on your phone, your handheld, your console? No big deal. As long as you have your account, you're good.

Boot up time? Let's put the PS4 to shame. I want a handheld/console that boots you into the game as quickly as possible and has saves states for multiple titles. I should be able to switch between several games and be asked each time "Resume play?"
 

bman94

Member
This is a huge stretch, but augmented reality. Something similar to Holo lens in which you can interact with the game in the real world.
 

Schnozberry

Member
Clickable trackpad circle instead of a second analog stick. Scroll Wheel Shoulder Buttons that are pressure sensitive. Primary face buttons that have different surface textures applied to them. Haptic feedback on fully functional analog triggers. A smaller 3.5" screen built into the controller that allows for access to social features and additional game features without interrupting your primary display.
 

Oriel

Member
The disinterest in motion controls suggests gamers don't want the hassle of moving any other part of their body only their fingers.
 

Pinky

Banned
You are the controller.

nintendo-nerd-lord.jpg
 
Nintendo has been very successful with simplistic controllers. I could see them trying to appeal to people who are "intimidated" by XBox/PS controllers.

I could envision a return to a SNES-style controller with motion control, similar to how the Dual Shock/GamePad does it. Simple and cheap to produce but also versatile.
 
OK, I am a bit slow. What would scroll wheels do in games?

Anything. It's such a simple addition that the possibilities aren't really limited.

One big one that comes up is better item selection in games like Monster Hunter. Another common example was mimicking a bow being pulled back.

The disinterest in motion controls suggests gamers don't want the hassle of moving any other part of their body only their fingers.

Hmm, I'm not sure about all that, but I honestly hope he gyro stays. I love how the gamepad works in that regard.
 
If I had one wish (For all developers, not just Nintendo) it would be to get rid of the top-level bumper buttons, and replace them with buttons on the underside of the controller that you press with your middle fingers.

I loathe games that require me to have my hands in an uncomfortable positions because I need to be able to press both bumpers and both triggers at the same time.
 

MK_768

Member
I'm okay with small gimmicks like the scrollable wheel. I'm not sure there is another "gimmick" out there like motion control that would blow people away.

VR is most likely not happening with the NX so I'm not counting that.
 

geordiemp

Member
Anything. It's such a simple addition that the possibilities aren't really limited.

One big one that comes up is better item selection in games like Monster Hunter. Another common example was mimicking a bow being pulled back.

Hmm, I'm not sure about all that, but I honestly hope he gyro stays. I love how the gamepad works in that regard.

Mouse technology has scroll wheels, its hardly innovative to say hey we took the scroll wheel off a mouse that everybody uses every day...and ....thats hardly going to make anyone bat an eyelid.

Something innovative would be something like the steam hand held controller but wildly different somehow.
 
If I had one wish (For all developers, not just Nintendo) it would be to get rid of the top-level bumper buttons, and replace them with buttons on the underside of the controller that you press with your middle fingers.

I loathe games that require me to have my hands in an uncomfortable positions because I need to be able to press both bumpers and both triggers at the same time.

Yep I really like the xbone controller on my PC but RB and LB are a pain in the ass to press. Triggers are fine.
 

orioto

Good Art™
I'm sorry my post was probably too long as it seems none one of the poster above read it :p

It's just people talking about something else or commenting on things that are absolutely not relevant to what i said lol (head control being for first person, no classic pad..).

I should have known better :p
 

LewieP

Member
It should not be anything that makes releasing cross platform games designed around typical game controls a challenge.

Anything supplementary to that (ie some form of touch input, scrolling shoulder buttons, some form of waggle) is fine by me.

They should do nothing that significantly increases the cost of manufacturing controllers. Primarily from the perspective of keeping the price of the console low without skimping on other aspects of the hardware, but also so they can easily sell additional controllers with a decent margin on top. I think a touchscreen smaller than the one in the Wii U gamepad is possible without inflating costs too much.

There should be something approaching input parity across both the home console and the handheld.
 

True Fire

Member
I think the big innovation will be scalability and optional external processing. The control gimmick will be the handheld and console form factors, which will probably be compatible with one another in a fashion similar to the Wii U.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I still think vitality sensor ends up on this controller--maybe as 'holsters' for fingers behind the controller.
 

orioto

Good Art™
It should not be anything that makes releasing cross platform games designed around typical game controls a challenge.

Anything supplementary to that (ie some form of touch input, scrolling shoulder buttons, some form of waggle) is fine by me.

They should do nothing that significantly increases the cost of manufacturing controllers. Primarily from the perspective of keeping the price of the console low without skimping on other aspects of the hardware, but also so they can easily sell additional controllers with a decent margin on top. I think a touchscreen smaller than the one in the Wii U gamepad is possible without inflating costs too much.

There should be something approaching input parity across both the home console and the handheld.

Which by the way, works entirely with what i'm suggesting. All of what you say.
 

benedictm

Banned
So let's be crazy, i'll make a thread about that cause i want people to think about that idea.

Let's say there IS a control gimmick, an innovation in the NX, that is big enough so Nintendo wants to avoid leaks. Something that can create a difference, that would explain some rumors we had about their confidence in the product.

If you really think about it, the innovation model for Nintendo has been simple. Pick a tech that is there, not expensive, but nobody's doing anything with it. It worked for ds and wii.

In that regard, VR is interesting, but not for VR in itself. Rather for techs used in VR.

One of the potential non crazy scifi thing Nintendo could have, that none other have right now.. is tool assisted head/eyes tracking. It's never really talked about (cause maybe i'm the only fool thinking that....) but beyond vr immersive qualities, the oculus was revolutionnary for me, control wise, when the dev used really well the head gyro. When done right, being able to control subtly something (see Vanguard V and Proton Pulse, both from Justin Moravetz) with slight head rotation IS, to me, the most intuitive, natural way i've ever controlled something in a game. That and it lets you control some things (a visor, or even elements of the game, or the camera, or select a part or a character in game) while having both your hands free.

This could absolutely be a game changer for every kind of game. It's basically the wiimote pointer except it's perfectly natural to aim AND let you use a real pad in the same time for other things. The pointer could have been incredible but it wasn't cause it's just not intuitive to aim from your hand! Now doind it wit your head ? It's the most natural thing ever.

So let's imagine what that means in a soccer game, a fps.. ect. You can even imagine some hack and slash where you naturally, effortlessly aim at the guy you want to kick. Every game can benefit from it. It would probably give every game the ultimate control method. Pikmin ? Star Fox ? (I defy anyone having tried Vanguard V to not think, Star Fox needs this). Metroid obviously. That would actualyl be a next gen control. You can even go crazy, and think about, i don't know, a fighting game where you do different moves by aiming at different parts of your adversary. It wouldn't work with the wiimote, for exemple, but it works with that. Being able to pick things, or areas, effortlessly, on top of the classic control, can add a never seen before depth to every type of control.

I'm just saying, what if NX little trick is a little tool (something you put on top of your ear with a gyro and a little captor) that allows head control. (it could go farther and allow eye control but i think it's more complicated). At least THIS is, right now, a tech that is cheap, usable, and nobody's doing it. That would be the perfect Nintendo innovation.

People always go to far, and look for the complicated futuristic thing. People will talk to you about eye control of course. But it's super complicated and maybe even a little weird to control things with your eyes. While the head control is here, super simple to do, and it works. There are example of it, right now already.

Now, maybe, the limit of my theory is that people tried that and hated it lol. But it seems proton Pulse is pretty popular on many VR devices. And when you think about it, initially, controlling a block, in a breakout game, with your head.. seems like the worse idea ever. Except is super easy and accurate to play!

I'm saying that, i'm saying nothing.
(Oh and guess what,if the tool is something discrete, it could work the exact same way for the portable, isn't it crazy..)

(And i forgot a little something about it to. With that tech, you can finally have the famous desktop vr effect in all your games. As you move your head, the perspective change accordingly. I still think THIS is more impressive and realistic than stereo 3D actually). THAt in itself could add the little graphical / immersive gimmick that would make NX ports special.

I think this ticks all the boxes

- something that wouldn't send the price of the machine sky rocketing
- a different way to interact with games which is the root behind every one of Nintendo's gimmicks
- existing technology that hasn't been widely used in gaming before
- quite a 'big' idea

Bonus:
As its basically camera stuff 3rd parties could port games easily with little fucking around developing new systems.
Also if the marketing team want to run with it they could position it as VR-like but as there's no headset something that can everyone in the room can participate with*

So I'm all in with this idea.

* i know, i know. I just know how marketing works and this leapt out at ,me.
 
The thing is OP, you DO aim with your hands in real life. You mostly position your head in the general direction of your target and then use your actual eyes to focus on the target, then align everything between your hands and eyes and shoot/draw/throw etc.

Head aiming generally works in VR because the screen is always fixed in front of you. If you have instead a 2D screen with a fixed position (monitor, TV, handheld screen), then you'd have to either move your head and strain to look with your eyes in the opposite direction (effectively trying to keep your glance on the screen) or calibrate the sensitivity so that very small head movements translate to large movements in the game. I mean, TrackIR works like that, and it's kinda alright for what it is, but it's far from being an effective main way of camera control.

And before anyone says that you could then at least move your handheld or controller alongside your head, well then it's just a 3DS or a Wii U.

The other thing is that putting anything on your head just to have this already problematic approach is a big no-no. It works for VR (and by "works" I mean most people might find it bulky and tiresome, at least until we see a lot smaller form factor) because that's it's main point, but I think even a sort of a bluetooth earbud like addon would be too much for the average user.

Also, although I haven't tried the titles you've mentioned, I'd say aiming with your head isn't exactly an effortless thing, it's not as precise as using your hand. Just watched some YouTube videos of people playing Vanguard V and they're often fumbling to accurately target enemies, which is to be expected I think. Now, if the tech tracks your eyes very accurately, then you might get some better results, but it would still depend on the type of game, speed, size and details you need to focus on etc.

In any case, I don't really think head tracking for traditional 2D screen gameplay is a very good idea.


As for what Nintendo's actually doing with NX, I don't really know. Maybe it's something more about accessibility, playing games wherever you are in an easier fashion, I'd maybe say free hand tracking like Leap Motion, but that's still not that good, wouldn't be surprised at some AR stuff, photogrammetry gimmicks, I dunno.
 

Maiar_m

Member
This is a huge stretch, but augmented reality. Something similar to Holo lens in which you can interact with the game in the real world.

My dream tech regardless of what area it's applied to is close to that. "Hard light" holograms, if at all possible at any point in time, would change so much of society it seems funny to consider the tech premiering in video games.

Augmented reality, through the use of lightweight glasses, could be a nice proof of concept though.
 

Sapiens

Member
I would like it if I could plug my amiibos in and then they are brought to life and start doing stuff FOR REAL in my bedroom. Could you imagine? That's why I think Nintendo is being so secretive. It's amiibo AI or some shit. I know it.
 

benedictm

Banned
The thing is OP, you DO aim with your hands in real life. You mostly position your head in the general direction of your target and then use your actual eyes to focus on the target, then align everything between your hands and eyes and shoot/draw/throw etc.

Head aiming generally works in VR because the screen is always fixed in front of you. If you have instead a 2D screen with a fixed position (monitor, TV, handheld screen), then you'd have to either move your head and strain to look with your eyes in the opposite direction (effectively trying to keep your glance on the screen) or calibrate the sensitivity so that very small head movements translate to large movements in the game. I mean, TrackIR works like that, and it's kinda alright for what it is, but it's far from being an effective main way of camera control.

And before anyone says that you could then at least move your handheld or controller alongside your head, well then it's just a 3DS or a Wii U.

The other thing is that putting anything on your head just to have this already problematic approach is a big no-no. It works for VR (and by "works" I mean most people might find it bulky and tiresome, at least until we see a lot smaller form factor) because that's it's main point, but I think even a sort of a bluetooth earbud like addon would be too much for the average user.

Also, although I haven't tried the titles you've mentioned, I'd say aiming with your head isn't exactly an effortless thing, it's not as precise as using your hand. Just watched some YouTube videos of people playing Vanguard V and they're often fumbling to accurately target enemies, which is to be expected I think. Now, if the tech tracks your eyes very accurately, then you might get some better results, but it would still depend on the type of game, speed, size and details you need to focus on etc.

In any case, I don't really think head tracking for traditional 2D screen gameplay is a very good idea.


As for what Nintendo's actually doing with NX, I don't really know. Maybe it's something more about accessibility, playing games wherever you are in an easier fashion, I'd maybe say free hand tracking like Leap Motion, but that's still not that good, wouldn't be surprised at some AR stuff, photogrammetry gimmicks, I dunno.

What if it was more about camera view rather than aiming? you still use a controller to aim weapon or actually move?
 
What if it was more about camera view rather than aiming? you still use a controller to aim weapon or actually move?

I think it could work with simple head tracking and still as a gameplay input. A bit like gyro adjustments. Move head up slightly and game perspective aims down slightly etc.
 
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