NowhereFaded
Member
Yeah, would be super awesome if they have a trade in program. Highly doubt it, though. I'm still on my OG ps4 and it runs great but wouldn't hesitate to trade in for a 4K model, as long as it plays PS<4K games 
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PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Papacheeks
Banned
And in bumping effects or having larger headroom they will rewrite or accommodate their engines. And use older build for PS4. So maybe not the first batch of PS4K games. But ones being built from the ground up targeting it you will.
geordiemp
Member
Nah, you think Frostbite, which serves everything from Xb1 to a Titan X, is going to have a new revision out because of PS 4.5 with maybe max 7 million sales in 2017 if it takes half of the Ps4 sales. These engines already deliver to high end Pcs ultra settings and 1440p / 4K so I doubt 4.5 is going to change anything.
vpance
Member
Yes it makes sense for them to make people feel like they can afford to upgrade. I doubt they want this to be a niche thing like PSX was.
$350 / $450 base model would be ideal though.
Thats actually a really good point and likely the reason behind and an argument for the PS4K upscaling content vs the TV.
Not necessarily, the possibility of a PS4K $399 price point would also have indicated a drop in PS4 price, no chance in hell they would have sold for the same rate. I haven't seen a strong indication as to the CPU spec yet. I do think it would be wise, seeing as it is the current bandwidth bottleneck.
Papacheeks
Banned
You do know there is such a thing as different engine builds right? Unreal does it for console. And went through a bunch last gen just with unreal 3.
geordiemp
Member
Not so sure, I have got a 4K panny recently and its about 22 ms in game mode, so cant see much improvement for good 4K tv's.
Edit : lets be realistic here, even if ps4k takes 1/3 of the typical 15 million Ps4 annual sales, thats just 5 million users in 2017, their will be very little support for that number.
My worry is I drop £ 450 and I dont see any difference on a 1080p display. Parity...
yep, two jobs, etc...
This spec is actually excellent and the vast majority of 4K TV's (especially if you purchased 1+ years go) cannot currently touch this. The case still stands.
The even scale could also open some other techniques to improve the image further. One of the rumors said that not all of the extra power was open to devs so that may be part of it.
Papacheeks
Banned
That would be a smart road to go down. It would help with parity and keep things in check if true.
ZehDon
Gold Member
The only way "jumping in" becomes a thing is in a generation-less hardware structure, like with the smart phone market. When you buy a smart phone, its a known quantity that it'll be replaced within a matter of months by superior hardware. You take the plunge, and buy a phone that fits your needs at the time. That's not what a "0.5" hardware revision would bring to the market. A PS4K is an objectively superior purchasing decision than a PS4. Likewise, a PS5.5 will be objectively superior to a PS5. Waiting for the mid-gen "revision" becomes the best possible purchasing decision for people unable to buy multiple consoles, because a generational hardware leap is still coming, its just pushed back due to the revised hardware. So, if this is the way forward, the PS5 becomes the enthusiast console, because only they would buy hardware that will be replaced in two years, and the PS5.5 becomes the "every man" console, because its the most cost effective purchase. With the PS4, Sony is hoping the 40 million "enthusiasts" who own a PS4 now will upgrade to a PS4K. And as we're seeing, its an idea most "every man" gamers are simply not willing to entertain. If the rumour are true, Sony's burning bridges with the PS4K.
Papacheeks
Banned
And the big issue is the decline of early adopters. Which help drive the generation.
I don't think we are going to see much if any at all 1440p like some are suggesting.
farmerboy
Member
Relax man. Read the post he was responding to.
Right, confused by all the 1440p posts.
castaction
Member
i agree
OsirisBlack
Banned
That's all I have unless Diana from Themyscira has heard something that I have not. Talking to her shortly without the supervision of Mr Wayne and Mr Kent.
Its almost the other way around, to unleash the potential of your 4K TV for console gaming, yes. To unleash the maximum potential for PSVR, then yes.
These are just rumors for now until we understand the actual specs.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I don't think Sony is hoping everyone upgrade there PS4 .
Even more so if PS4 stays on the market at a cheaper price .
Lets say Sony does this with PS5 some people are not going to wait 3 years to play PS5 games.
Yes they will lose some people who going to wait for PS5.5 but if they going the upgrade route every few years that was going to happen .
Dude you lost me. Say what? So I can play my new sweet ass games in my normal TV?
Papacheeks
Banned
I think the fear is if this leads to more regular refreshes like other products. Because if that happens, console gaming will be changed forever and not for the better.
well yes, of course.
They're on board.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Sony, please....reconsider this whole PS4K thing (just like MS should reconsider the XBO.5 thing) and just consolidate it and PSVR into a singular device.
It'll save you a lot of trouble going forward.
It'll save you a lot of trouble going forward.
chromatic9
Member
A new PS4 would be good if they include the breakout VR box inside. Get rid of the clutter for a cleaner PSVR solution.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Well the market will decide if it for the better or not .
Some will like it or dislike it no matter what happens .
I'd imagine devs may have been pushing for something like this to happen for a while. Lets be real. When these consoles were released they were already underpowered. It's struggling to still hit constant 30fps at 1080p, and while I'm not one to raise a stink about that. It's the reality of it.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
PS4 and Xbox One simultaneously developing a mid-gen iteration may be seen as evidence of collusion against Nintendo.
And it's not the first time Sony and MS have colluded against Nintendo.
Art Vandilay
Member
I did and I am relaxed. The other guy's post has echoed many others in this thread. The poster I quoted implied the PS4K would be inferior to the NX and next Xbox, and I feel that was unnecessary bullshit granted not one of these systems has even been announced.
i see it as competition against each other. one isn't going to do something the other won't try and one-up. microsoft is doing it in a different way though, by also blurring the lines with their approach to games and windows too.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
That's actually pretty close the definition of collusion.
That's what I'm saying. I mean while all these rumors have weight at this point they are still rumors. Sony hasn't even announced or even hinted they are doing anything in regards to this right now. I'm willing to wait on them to officially announce this and detail their plans along with what it does
To be fair. What Sony and MS are and have been doing is way different to what Nintendo is doing. Nintendo is pretty much doing their own thing. I don't think MS or Sony feel threatened by Nintendo because quite frankly Nintendo is off doing their own thing. And I certainly don't think they feel threatened by them in the console space.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That still doesn't make any sense. PSVR open up an entire new library, while PS4.5 will just enhance your existing and future library (which can be played on your PS4), and its value is lesser if you do not have a 4K TV. No matter how you slice it, PSVR is a better value.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yep it also a good way to adapt in a changing market .
They are both trying out different thing like how Sony trying out streaming and MS doing there windows thing .
ZehDon
Gold Member
The people who aren't going to wait for the PS5.5 are the people who can afford to buy both the PS5 and the PS5.5. I mentioned this in my post. In any case, banking on "desperate gamers who can't control themselves and have to buy a product they know is inferior anyway" didn't workout well for the Xbone when Microsoft tried to snatch control of used games, so I can't see it working out any better for Sony here. My group of friends and I all owned an OG Xbox and an Xbox 360, before buying our PS4s. The sentiment is universal: the PS4k is a slap in the face. Why would we bother with another Playstation?
TheSecondSpitter
Member
This is also evidence of collusion.
This is something I came across in the research of doctoral thesis. It's written in 2005 so feel to refute or interpret to modern times.
http://e-mpire.com/archive/index.php/t-38254.html
pixellated_man
Member
1) The comparison with PCs is flawed.
PC = open system, upgradeable (sockets, expansion slots)
Console = closed system, non-upgradeable (like a 3DS/New 3DS or an iPhone 6/6s)
Would you consider Nintendo 64 a "PC" just because it had a memory expansion slot?
Thankfully we don't have this anymore (soldered memory chips are always better/faster).
We also didn't have internet back then to denounce N64 fragmentation (Majora's Mask, DK64, Perfect Dark require 8MB of RAM).
2) The PS4 will still be supported until the end of the decade. Sony home consoles are known for having longterm support.
3) I was really pissed off when I found out that the PS4 wouldn't support older steering wheels. I don't remember any community outrage back then. Why guys, why??? Is it because Gran Turismo hasn't come out yet?
Eventually I was forced to sell my Logitech G27 at a really good price (fortunately) and get a G29 at a discounted price.
I did NOT have any official choice to keep my old wheel (GIMX takes too much time & effort), while now you will still be able to keep your PS4.
4) I'm really annoyed that we still haven't gotten friend notifications (where's that fucking 3.50 FW?) and game folders (my PS3 has that).
My point is that I'm getting tired of consoles starting from a clean slate when next-gen comes out.
I love the fact that that we will now have the same OS across PS4/PS4.5 (and possibly PS5). Not to mention the same DS4 controllers as well.
5) BC has always been difficult due to different architectures (Cell/RSX -> Jaguar/Radeon).
Now we will be able to have BC and there will be no need for remasters!
6) If the new console is worthy-enough (guaranteed 1080p60, octa-core Zen, 4 TF Polaris, 16GB GDDR5X/HBM2, 1080p60 PVR at $499), then I'll just sell my PS4 in the future. I've gotten my money's worth and I haven't even played Uncharted 4 yet.
7) Don't just blame Sony (or even MS), since it takes two to tango. AMD wants iterative consoles as much as Sony/MS do.
AMD is in a dire financial situation, so signing a couple of multi-billion dollar contracts for designing another round of semi-custom APUs gives them some air to breathe.
8) We won't have a new console every 1-2 years. That's just too little for major technological breakthroughs.
4-year cycles are acceptable, IMHO. We also need major die shrinks for that (28 -> 14 -> 7nm).
9) Nobody's holding you from going back to PC gaming. If you enjoy fiddling with *.dll files, testing beta non-WHQL drivers for newer games, having random crashes, *.exe files not starting due to weird errors and stuff like that, that's your prerogative.
I enjoy consoles because of: 1) Exclusives (good luck playing Uncharted 4/TLOU2 on your shiny new PC), 2) Plug'n'play (self-explanatory), 3) Physical media (I know many people who hate digital-only games), 4) Friends/Community/Ecosystem.
10) Code to the metal already exists in iOS devices thanks to the Metal API.
If you agree that Apple offers decent optimization, then why wouldn't ICE team be able to do the same??? We are talking about 2 hardware targets only (PSVR complicates things a bit, though). PC gaming has literally dozens of possible hardware configurations.
On top of that, "code to the metal" is not meant to be taken literally these days.
I'm not sure if modern Radeon GPUs accept assembly opcodes with Mantle/DX12/GNM, but I know for a fact that modern x86 CPUs (since the Pentium Pro/II at least) do not execute x86 opcodes natively, since they break them down into smaller RISC micro-ops.
Yes, your x86 CPU is a camouflaged RISC CPU (that's why great 90s RISC CPUs such as the DEC Alpha became obsolete) with a CISC/x86 frontend (it's called microcode/uCode decoder). There are over 1000 x86 instructions these days and it's technically/financially impossible to implement all of them natively at the transistor level.
11) What I don't like is that game dev cycles are longer in this gen (understandable due to increased production values). Lots of delays and studios going the way of dodo.
For example, what if they announce TLOU2 in 2017 and it gets delayed until 2018? Do you get a PS4.5 to play it? What if PS5 rumors start in 2018? This is a complicated issue that cannot be solved easily.
12) I still have the same smartphone for the last 2 years and I'll keep it another 2 years at least. Just because a new one comes out every year, it doesn't mean that you should buy it, unless your current one does not fit your needs anymore.
13) There's a lot of hypocrisy from guys who don't mind Nintendo abandoning Wii U after 4 years and saying that they will get NX day 1 or PC gamers who spend $400-800 every 2 years for a GPU upgrade.
14) I remember tons of folks getting a 2nd console during the last generation due to YLOD/RROD respectively. What's the difference? You paid twice for the same console (there's no performance increase between PS3 60GB and PS3 Slim 120GB), just because you wanted to play some exclusives. I didn't see anyone boycotting Sony or MS, especially Sony that still has an awful 1-year warranty policy (IIRC, 1-year only is illegal in the EU).
15) If Sony squanders their strong momentum in this generation, then we may get a better PS+ line-up in the future.
Now feel free to attack me!
Great post! I'm especially in agreement with the physical media part - thats one of the many reasons I prefer console gaming compared to pc. I like to have ownership of my games, not something truly the same with digital games. More importantly, I am one of those many people who almost always trades in / sell games when finished with them and never buy's games full price. I also like to share my games with my younger brother and cousins and they do the same for me
Then there's the advantage of selling if I don't like a game. I know you can get refunds on your steam purchases, but that is limited to a few day's after purchase. As someone who buys games on a frequent basis (I like taking advantage of sales and the second hand market) I end up playing most games I buy months or sometimes even years down the line. In my case I need that safety net of the reseller market.
It's a console advantage that is curiously overlooked especially when you consider the outrage over Microsofts attempt to curtail the second hand games market at the start of the generation. Obviously buying / selling / exchanging games is important to a lot of people besides me.
Booz is back! Now only if de
how was dinner
Also, do you have any additional input on pricing/cpu upgrade
Wishmaster92
Member
Boogz spill da beans!
ZehDon
Gold Member
PSVR is an unknown quantity. It may or may not delivery a library of unknown size of games that we may or may not enjoy. The PS4K is an objectively superior upgrade that will absolutely deliver the best versions of the best games we know and love for years to come. When you don't have a lot of money, and can only buy one, you buy the one you know you'll get use out of. The PSVR is in absolutely no way better value than a PS4K.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Are you joking ?
So because i don't feel like missing out on years worth of play time i am desperate .
There also going to be people who buy PS5 that won't feel the need to upgrade .
Why would bother by with another PlayStation maybe because you want to play games.
Or is this when you going to tell me i should just go PC ?
Everything becomes inferior in other markets in a year but 3 years is big deal for consoles .
The conspiracies are flying fast and furious now.
Also, the earth is flat.
I hope so. I'm curious as to how devs will react to more target specs.