Second part of the bolded happened years before the first part.
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Zoe Quinn wins the case against her ex-boyfriend (who started GamerGate)
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Probably the most notable example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gerstmann#Termination_from_GameSpot_.282007.E2.80.932008.29
It doesn't get much more direct than firing one of your directors because one of his reviews annoyed your advertising partner.
Also, there was a really active series of threads on NeoGAF tracking all of this stuff, too. Unfortunately, Gamergate had a chilling effect on people actually wanting to talk about ethics in games journalism.
I get it why people are upset, but quoting 46 times does nothing but fuck up the thread. Let a mod handle it.
crooked spin
Member
You gotta earn a reddit account name like Gafsuckalot2, bro.
The actual bullshittery is a thing and has been going on for an extraordinarily long time. Remember unreemably awful fighting game Rise of the Robots got like 92 scores from some places and like 12 from others. Here's a 2-pager from Amiga Power in 1995 about unethical review practices.
What's important to remember is it's NOT what Gamergate is. GG got very quickly completely controlled by people who, if they're arguing this point, are doing so exclusively against women and only using the "ethics" argument as a smokescreen as they leave male reviewers alone. If you have a problem with review ethics that's fine and a valid discussion to have, but it's not Gamergate, that name is dead for that purpose.
I seriously, seriously doubt it happens to anyone else in the game industry, for any reason. The women targeted by gamergate have gotten death, torture and rape threats sent to them every day for YEARS. Some have been driven from their homes after getting doxxed and have to move around for fear of being attacked. That's the type of harassment they have to deal with all the time, for no reason other than the fact that they're women who work in the video game industry, which is apparently some kind of horrible sin to them:
http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/brianna-wu-gamergate
https://storify.com/a_man_in_black/gamergate-harassment
https://storify.com/DiscordianKitty/what-s-it-like-to-unblock-gamergate-on-twitter
I'm pretty sure some convicted murderers get less sustained hate directed at them for as long.
Aaron Strife
Banned
"It's about ethics in game journalism"
(Only attacks feminists for being feminist)
(Whole thing started over false rumors about Zoe Quinn)
(Continue perpetuating said rumors, or just acknowledge they're false but then just say she's a bitch who deserved it)
(Only attacks feminists for being feminist)
(Whole thing started over false rumors about Zoe Quinn)
(Continue perpetuating said rumors, or just acknowledge they're false but then just say she's a bitch who deserved it)
Read through that thread a lot and I wasn't even a Gaf member at the time, but GG pretty much killed it.
The other big incident is Florence eurogamer article where he called out stuff like Keighley's Dew/Doritos thing and mention Lauren Wainwright shilling for SquareEnix, which ended up with legal threats, article being edited and Florence leaving EG.
Also an attempt to pretend it was never really a big deal like all you SJWs made it out to be and just a couple of bad eggs.
sol740
Member
Thanks for the examples I certainly recall the whole Gerstmann incident. That was kind of my point, there are plenty of examples of shitty journalism in this industry, but even in those cases, if you dislike the reviewer/site/relationship stop reading those reviews/sites, or don't buy the game.
Don't become the shittiest of shitheels in defense of "ethics". I can't even reconcile the last sentence I wrote.
Don't become the shittiest of shitheels in defense of "ethics". I can't even reconcile the last sentence I wrote.
(Argues that there is a feminist illuminatti/gynocracy/pussy cartel/muffia meticulously pulling the strings behind-the-scenes and staging false flag operations like SWATting themselves to discredit their opponents)
The Mad Draklor
Member
Huh... based on this Washington Post article, it sounds more like a stalemate for me. Neither side really "won".
Key paragraph:
Key paragraph:
Laevateinn
Member
I think it's a win not because she "won" or because he "lost" but because he was using the legal system to continue harassing her by dragging things out as long as possible and this has ended. That so little can be considered a win shoes how pathetic this man is.
This is all you need to know, from any angle:
People with too much time on their hands + people exploiting anonymity on the internet to spout idiotic stuff + people who are incapable of communicating like adults + stupid.
It's actually been shown that the bolded part isn't even necessary. At best it's the safety of having the space separating you, so the risk of the people decking you for being such a shithead isn't there.
dodgykebaab
Banned
It's lots of people arguing about different things, but instead of making separate augments for the different issues; the internet spazed out once again and grouped all the arguments together to ruin any chance making sense out of it and prevent any sort of resolution from happening.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Someone earlier in this thread said how if he ran a company he'd love to know if any of his employees was a gamergate supporter to fire his ass because he'd have little patience for an element in his company that spends his free time harassing and being an all around douchebag with women who dare to criticize his precious videogames.
Well I'd love to know if this very stance can affect Adam Baldwin's acting career. I mean Im sure his future as a Fox News pundit is a bright one but as an actor in the mostly progressive bastion thats Hollywood? Here's a very public face of Gamergate and other shitty behavior who can, unlike the hypothetical Gaffer business owner, stand to loose job offers because of his views.
At the very least I expect Nintendo to not hire this asshole again for a game. Goddamn it, Codename STEAM!
Renegade King
Member
Something that totally boggles my mind is gamergate is still a thing that some people think is actually about ethics in games journalism.
I remember when the whole thing first started and wanted to know more about the accusations about the positive review thing. I read through that whole stupid blog that Eron wrote expecting to see where that review came in. IT DIDNT EXIST. Other GG supporters link to kotaku article making mention of the game. That's it.
I just don't understand how some people can stand behind this movement and claim it's not just harassment. They obviously know that harassment is bad which is why the fake motive, but I haven't seen any evidence about then actually stopping corruption within games journalism.
I remember when the whole thing first started and wanted to know more about the accusations about the positive review thing. I read through that whole stupid blog that Eron wrote expecting to see where that review came in. IT DIDNT EXIST. Other GG supporters link to kotaku article making mention of the game. That's it.
I just don't understand how some people can stand behind this movement and claim it's not just harassment. They obviously know that harassment is bad which is why the fake motive, but I haven't seen any evidence about then actually stopping corruption within games journalism.
It just goes to show that shitty opinions aren't limited to trolls. People legitimately believe in them. It's no coincidence that whenever we have a thread about anything tangentially related to women it turns into a graveyard of Banned users.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well this thread was a probably necessary culling.
Good news about the legal stuff, although its almost certainly not going to stop him from fucking with her
Good news about the legal stuff, although its almost certainly not going to stop him from fucking with her
SlipperyFishes
Banned
If I knew that a prospective employee was a giant turd with nasty views I wouldn't hire them either
NoblesseOblige
Banned
More accurately it was a harassment campaign that tried to present itself as being anything besides that by attempting to co-opt actual concerns into its rhetoric in hopes of tricking people into its crusade.
At this point I doubt anything realistically can, or he would have dropped it long long ago.
Dirtyshubb
Member
What I mean though is that for anyone who has been around long enough to post over 3,000 posts you would think it was clear you couldn't get away with posting that shit.
Like, is this the really how you wanna go out?
Strange, maybe their hatred of women (and any other subject) means they can't help themselves.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Wait, hold on... how is he using the legal system to harass her when the passage I quoted said "The court thus did not decide that Gjoni was guilty, or that Gjoni was innocent". If what you said was true, wouldn't that sentence instead be read as "The court thus did not decide that Quinn was guilty, or that Quinn was innocent"?
No, Gamergate is not "arguing about different things", it's about organized misogyny, the harassment of women, and attacking feminists and feminist causes.
Part of me does wonder if they had Baldwin's character in the Halo universe ride off into the sunset partially so that they could give the character closure and never bring him back again as a consequence of his support for GamerGate.
Even better is that they then blame their employment hardships on women. "I obviously wasn't hot enough for this job, this is all women's fault."
Countdown to thread somewhere else titled "Zoe Quinn and her feminazi friends who run NeoGAF had me banned for NO REASON."
Alpha Phoenix
Member
Proof that the Internet sucks.
GitarooMan
Member
Because it's a tactic not actual ignorance. It's been going on for years.
Part of it is probably sandbagging from actual gamergaters who want to feign ignorance and then find some 'evidence' about how women are devious whores out to ruin games for us and then try and present in a neutral a way as possible because wow it really makes you think, huh?
On the flip side to that is the recognition that there are justifiably a lot of emotion around the issue and somewhere people have decided that if you are emotionally invested in a particular issue or argument then that bizarrely makes your position unsound. So they will swoop into this topic and proclaim ignorance of this silly little argument. Usually what then happens is that these people will declare that the true answer is likely somewhere in the middle and it is probably both sides in the wrong.
Then there are people who despite being regular posters on one of the most popular and influential videogame forums in the world have managed to remain genuinely ignorant of one of the biggest and nastiest hate campaigns that have manifested in gaming. A lot of these people are strangely prideful of their own myopia.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I haven't played Halo 5, Reach and 3ODST. Who did he play in Halo and what happened with his character?
Messofanego
Banned
Ethics are discussed all the time properly about reviews and journalism. Well, as long as a woman is not involved. If so, then it becomes a clusterfuck of misogyny and sexism (IGN Lucy O'Brien 8.8 Uncharted 4 review, Gamespot Carolyn Petit 9.0 GTA V review). Most outlets follow through to their editorial/advertising separation. The ethics debate has moved over to tastemakers like gaming Youtubers brand deals and advertorials for new games that are sometimes not disclosed. Not surprisingly, GG doesn't care about this actual issue, because their main focus is on women in the industry.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
The Internet is such a strange place to announce that you don't know what something is. I mean, it's the Internet. It's literally made out of information. Unless you take a strange, inexplicable pride in not accessing readily available information.
I'm glad she won. I'm glad anytime victims of shitty harassment campaigns succeed. I hope she has more successes, because justice is pretty cool. Go Zoe.
EDIT lol, bottom'd
I'm glad she won. I'm glad anytime victims of shitty harassment campaigns succeed. I hope she has more successes, because justice is pretty cool. Go Zoe.
EDIT lol, bottom'd
Weltall Zero
Member
This should be requoted every page. I'm bookmarking it for the next inevitable disingenuous snowflake that decides to flaunt their ignorance.
Pretty much.
You can, when a large amout of people not wanting to know or do anything about it is a big part of why this shit keeps happening in the first place.
It's amazing how much less of an impact this had considering how infinitely more reprehensive it was. I remember (and shared) the outrage back then, but not a year later everyone had moved on.
Plot twist: the whole thing was set up by corrupt reviewers to smear the entire concept and get away with being bribed.
OH I've heard about it for years but the damn thing became so convoluted and every explanation I've heard seems to highlight certain things versus other. It was all very confusing. I try to refrain from posting in these threads because I just don't know enough about it. I'm just saying that ive been trying to pay attention but the issue has gotten so meta with so many sides commenting on each other that I am just confused about the entire history and details.
In ODST he and a bunch of Firefly alums are the eponymous special ops soldiers. In mid 2015 they published Halo: New Blood which takes place after ODST and details what happened to the members of the team. He ends up retiring while everyone else goes on to be Spartans and theoretically has a higher chance of showing up again (and in Nathan Fillion's case, his character does recur.)
There's really not enough info to say one way or another if they chose to have him retire so that there wouldn't be a future where they called on Baldwin to reprise the roll; it's possible they never would have recurred in a video game anyhow. Just an interesting thought that occurred to me when talking about potential blowback from Baldwin's actions (that said, I dunno how anyone outside of video games would actually know all that much about Baldwin and Gamergate.)
If you don't think there should be some amount of trepidation then something is wrong (especially when GG was still fresh). I mean even now we have 5 pages of quoting a single post, and maybe 1-3 posts trying to give what I would call a true unbiased account. Why can't posters tersely summarize why he is wrong instead of further inflaming and polarizing the issue. It did/does not help resolve GG. And if you cba to say why that view is wrong for the 1000th time then don't quote him. It only adds noise and emotion.
Maybe we can convince Stinkles to bring back his character (in a non-speaking role) just to skewer him with an energy sword. I would pay for that. I seriously get pissed whenever I hear his voice now.
Alex_Mexico
Member
All it takes is a quick glance at his Twitter timeline to know he's a major asshole and an extreme right winged close minded individual, let alone a gamergater.
And thanks for the explanation. It's interesting that his character was the only one that retired. I wonder if this was a blowback for him too.
The dude has a daughter(s) too. smh
Growing up with his brand of blatant misogyny must really fuck you up.
As far as specifically the court case, it was mostly that Quinn got an abusive/unconstitutional restraining order put on Gjoni that essentially prevented him from speaking online at all due to its broadness. This stuck for about a year until Gjoni rounded up enough donations from GG to appeal. I highly doubt Quinn's finances were in trouble due to the court case because she had some super high-end representation and so she was not likely being harassed via the court system at least. Though I'm sure bringing her name back into the news did her no favors as far as online harassment, which is likely why she considers this a win.
In the end, it was kind of a win and loss situation for both. Quinn lost in that the restraining order is gone and her criminal case had no legs, but won in that she is no longer involved with the court cases. Gjoni won in that he can talk on the internet again, but lost in that his appeal to make a first amendment precedent against abusive restraining orders failed.
The issue has never been complicated or meta to anyone observing it from the outside. It has been embarrassingly simple. Timelines and activities both. I'd caution that the only people I have ever heard say "it's complicated" have been its passive aggressive defenders.
Messofanego
Banned
Some people take pride in ignorance. Like in OT, when someone posts "Who?" in response to a thread about pop stars or something "mainstream".
WTF is this...?
Obligatory Fuck GG post.
Good for Quinn to have got what she wanted in her last foray in the justice system.
I'm not a fan of sites like Buzzfeed or stuffs like that but their writeup about GG pretty much cemented my view on the whole BS pancake.
Even if what GG douchnozzles say was true they're still irremediable asshole that need indefinite time off from the internet and suffer harsh consequences for their BS.
The best thing I can say of them is that they actually made an actual valid argument for censorship with their absurd art experiment.
Good for Quinn to have got what she wanted in her last foray in the justice system.
I'm not a fan of sites like Buzzfeed or stuffs like that but their writeup about GG pretty much cemented my view on the whole BS pancake.
Even if what GG douchnozzles say was true they're still irremediable asshole that need indefinite time off from the internet and suffer harsh consequences for their BS.
The best thing I can say of them is that they actually made an actual valid argument for censorship with their absurd art experiment.
Have you looked at the court case or read Volokh's blogs on it at all? That is what the case was about. And that is why I said "specifically the court case" because Gjoni is a dirtbag in all other cases. In this specific court case, he was not in the wrong.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Yeah, that's what I have found after looking through various articles, videos, and archives. So yeah, I see it as a stalemate.
crowphoenix
Banned
Good. I am glad Zoe was able to get something out of all this fighting. I wish it'd magically make her ex and other GamerGaters grow up, but I am more likely to trip on a leprechaun.
Oh he is a dirtbag in this case too.
He could just happen to be a dirtbag with a legitimate point.
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