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TSMZeRo criticizes the way Smash 4/Wii U was treated at EVO 2016.

BY2K

Membero Americo
It's been discussed a little also in the Evolution thread how poorly handled Smash 4/Wii U was at Evolution and TSMZeRo added his opinion on Twitter, criticizing how it was organized, calling it "terribly ran" and "the worst tournament" he's been to. Being the game with the second highest number of entrants, I too feel like it should have been given more care.

https://twitter.com/TSMZeRo/status/754556097923457026
Gonzalo BarriosVerified account
‏@TSMZeRo
Let's be real here. Smash 4 was terribly ran at EVO. Worst tournament I've ever been to. Here's why. Please RT.

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Other top players share the sentiment.

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/754414313205563392
William HjelteVerified account
‏@TSM_Leffen
talking like wanting the 2nd largest game ever at EVO to be treated like its not a side event is not being entitled. It's called being sane.

https://twitter.com/AllyOrNotAlly/status/754322916427173892
Ally @ EVO
‏@AllyOrNotAlly
I swear if any top player gets mic opportunity after evo somehow you better tell em how shitty we are treated etc. I know I will.

Another player, Trela, had something to say about this on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4t84no/smash_4_evo_2016_feedback_thread/

I will try to give some feedback for ya, Bear. This tournament was one of the worst I've ever had to participate in. But I do not blame YOU for trying your best to make it better for a player like myself.
To start off, I am constantly surprised at the amount of setups at tournaments of this size. Time and time again, it's just never enough. I'm currently seeing a new trend in nationals where these setups are slowly starting to deplete with the more entrants they are given. I believe this has to do with he fact that tournaments of this size are no longer grassroots-provided like they've always been in the past. Players aren't expected to have to bring their setups to events like these anymore to help speed up everything, and we put our faith in the TOs, sponsors, and whoever else to give us enough. I don't know the specifics behind this type of thing like you do, Bear, but when my local monthlies have almost TWICE as many setups with not even a TENTH of the amount of entrants THIS one had.......it's just kinda sad to think about. There MUST be a way to improve on this.

Next is how pools were ran. Two setups per pool? It's ok, we can make it work somehow. Finish in almost two hours? Alright, made it just in time for the next pool to get going. But the almost two-hour delay after round 2 of pools were supposed to start? Good Lord. "I hope I can get out of here before midnight, if I'm lucky," I thought to myself. what exactly went wrong? Was it because the staff had to run the bracket pools on a piece of paper instead of a program on their phone to manually update with? I assume you had to make those changes yourself AFTER you were given all of the pool sheets. We used to do that at my local monthlies back in Houston, and it was ABSOLUTELY unessesary. What is this, the STONE AGE!? I know EVO doesn't use smashgg, but there's GOT to be a better way to do all of this.

And speaking of issues with time.......oh boy. OH BOY, OH BOY. The TIMESLOT we were given. 8pm Friday round 2 pools (that DID finish at midnight) into 8am top 32 the next MORNING? Hello? Yes, this is sleep. I'm not at the PHONE RIGHT NOW because I'm still playing against a VILLAGER and a SONIC at almost 12AM from the NIGHT BEFORE. Please leave your message NEVER!?
You and I both know that the worst part about this event was the amount of time we were given to finish it. You did DAMN good for what you were given, Bear. But no one, and I mean NO ONE, should have to go through that. I only managed about four hours of sleep before I had to get up and get ready to start walking over to the venue (even from the Westgate, I hate that walk). I got to play one or two warm-up matches before I played ESAM, and I didn't see him get to play ANY at all. They didn't let people into the EVO room until 7:50am, so I was lucky to get a few minutes of play in before my match. And to top it all off?

Best of 3.

You're telling me.......I had to wake up early in the morning.......with little to no time to prepare myself.......to play in Bo3 sets.......against some of the BEST players in the WORLD.......
What could possibly go wrong.
"You made 9th place, Trela! You shouldn't be talking about playing bad!"

We are supposed to be at the most prestigous, top-of-the-line fighting game tournament in the whole damn WORLD. The F**K I can't talk about how we played.
I don't care how I did in the end. Those matches did not bring out the best in me or my opponents. It was more of a matter of who could stay awake the longest, or so it felt. Why must winning feel this way for me? Do my wins truly hold weight? Only between the exchange of eyes of two top players can one understand how I feel. Funny, too, that I had Zan record my set with Mr. R for me. I'm scared to watch it.
If we are given another chance at EVO, Bear.......let's make it worth it this time. Let's improve to make it better. We need better.
No, we DEMAND better.
 

Sakujou

Banned
i dont know about the details, but if true, i wonder if there was some suitcases left with money from capcom/the other competitors.
 
It's not only him who seemed upset about this tournament. Lots of top players were incredibly disappointed and said so on Twitter. It was a huge mess basically
 
That's ridiculous. There's some salt in there somewhere, you've got someone at the top saying "Nope Smash 4 isn't a real fighting game so we're going to punish it for doing well", and trying his best to fuck everything over.
 

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
Yeah thats pretty bad, KI top 8 got absolutely fucked by POKKEN running over two hours late as well.
 

Eolz

Member
Same for the Leffen tweets.
Pretty damning, but some Evo people really dislike Smash unfortunately, especially since it does bigger numbers than the other games (especially viewers)... What a shame :/
 
We should talk about POKKEN fucking up everything too

It's a little bit of Smash people wanting better treatment and Evo clearly not making it a priority
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I wouldn't get your hopes up for a Sunday time slot. The EVO guys have a point about maintaining variety amongst the Sunday games, as the FGC wouldn't take kindly to having 2 Smash games do Grand Finals on the same day. And as of right now, the FGC sees Melee as the better spectator's game. Unless that perception changes in the next few months, Melee will remain the only Smash game on Sunday. That said, Smash 4 definitely deserves a prime time slot on Saturday, & I'm pretty sure the only reason why Killer Instinct has that honor is because of Microsoft actually contributing to the game financially (which is can of worms I'll open for another day), alongside scheduling stuff. Like it or not, EVO doesn't need us. They still have Street Fighter V (which currently has double Smash 4's entrants on its first year) & Melee as far as heavy-hitters go, & Tekken 7 has yet to even hit consoles. Does this mean that we should stay quiet about our grievances, hell no. But my point is that we should keep the greater FGC's desires in mind. And from what I've seen, they prefer variety within each day's line-up. One Smash game per day is enough, & a good chunk of the FGC seem to tolerate Melee more than Smash 4 when it comes to viewership. If that changes within the next few months, then maybe Smash 4 could switch places with Melee. But if one of the existing Sunday games gets moved to Saturday next year (UMvC3, for example), Tekken 7 would likely be first in line to take up that slot.
 

Ninjimbo

Member
Yeah, it was kind of weird to see Melee have like half the floor space while Smash 4 had to deal with its brackets in a little corner. Didn't Smash 4 have more people registered? It didn't make sense to me.

It was hard to catch any of the fights in that clusterfuck of a floor space. I bet it was hell for the people running the thing.

EVO has gotten too big for the way they're running things.
 

Fularu

Banned
We should talk about POKKEN fucking up everything too

It's a little bit of Smash people wanting better treatment and Evo clearly not making it a priority

[tinfoil] What if the EVO organizer is a secret melee lover and Smash 4 hater? [/tinfoil]
 

Kusagari

Member
I think, while they might not be the the biggest fans of Smash in general, the FGC in general has a grudging respect for Melee but zero for Smash 4.

Not surprised to see this.
 

Luigi87

Member
I'm glad ZeRo has come out and said this.

When the initially announced the schedule I was really annoyed that Melee got the Sunday finals spot, etc.

Sure chock it up to viewercount, but let's be reasonable here... Tonight Melee is the second last finals, preceding SFV. It's going to get a ton of viewers for that reason alone... So next year comes and what happens? They cite this year and "Melee had more viewers during EVO 2015" and it's like oh, I wonder why.
 

entremet

Member
I just think EVO is getting too big for the logistics to work well. Not to mention the record breaking entrants. Something had to give.

Not to excuse the poor setup. Hopefully, next year takes the demand into account.
 

Fularu

Banned
Nah they just don't fuck with either

They don't hate Smash but when push comes to shove they're not going to put it above other things

I should have made it clearer I was merely joking.

But it's still weird to see Melee above 4 when it has more players and more viewers. Hell it's weird seeing anything bar SFV above Smash 4 tbh
 

KingBroly

Banned
Nah they just don't fuck with either

They don't hate Smash but when push comes to shove they're not going to put it above other things

Melee didn't have half the problems Smash 4 did.

Smash 4 basically got treated the same as Tekken, KOF and KI by the sound of things, and those tourneys combined probably didn't have as many competitors as Smash 4.
 
I just think EVO is getting too big for the logistics to work well. Not to mention the record breaking entrants. Something had to give.

Not to excuse the poor setup. Hopefully, next year takes the demand into account.

Melee didn't have half the problems Smash 4 did.

Smash 4 basically got treated the same as Tekken, KOF and KI by the sound of things, and those tourneys combined probably didn't have as many competitors as Smash 4.

Ya it was basically this. They messed up logistics wise. I doubt there's any malice behind it.

I should have made it clearer I was merely joking.

But it's still weird to see Melee above 4 when it has more players and more viewers. Hell it's weird seeing anything bar SFV above Smash 4 tbh

Melee's got dat rep
 
Just watching the smash 4 streams on friday you could tell they were sidelined, people had to stand around the console setup area just to watch the streamed matches because of no projector.

the entire smash 4 start to end was over in a flash too, best out of 3 nearly all the way until the very end was too fast and rushed.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I should have made it clearer I was merely joking.

But it's still weird to see Melee above 4 when it has more players and more viewers. Hell it's weird seeing anything bar SFV above Smash 4 tbh
I wouldn't be too sure about more viewers. As stated earlier, it seems like the FGC is more tolerant of Melee than they are of Smash 4 from a spectator's standpoint.

That said, the game's likely gonna be rescued from the sinking ship known as the Wii U thanks to the rumored NX port, which will give Smash 4 a bit of a shot-in-the-arm in terms of competitive longevity. By this virtue, it's likely that Smash 4 will return (likely played on the NX rather than the Wii U) next year unless the animosity between the Smash 4 scene & the EVO guys gets out-of-hand. Hopefully by the time 2017 rolls by, the grievances of the Smash 4 will be met in a way that will keep both them & the greater FGC happy.

One of the guys from FGC-GAF made a guess that the EVO guys may have expected Smash 4 to die down like Brawl did, but ended up being proven wrong. After everything that has happened, I wouldn't be inclined to disagree.
 

Phloxy

Member
From a viewer perspective it seemed to be worse this year than any I can remember recently. Pokken ruining the top 8 of K.I was atrocious. Still think Sunday shouldn't be for the games with most viewers, it should be the ones that are fun to watch and can actually run at a decent time. Even though it had lowest entrants, K.I in place of Smash on Sunday would lead to a much tighter and smoother running Sunday Schedule. Save all the Smash games and stuff like Pokken for Saturday.
 

KingBroly

Banned
Ya it was basically this. They messed up logistics wise. I doubt there's any malice behind it.

You can't give Smash 4 half the stations it was supposed to have when it had the second most players at the event. And frankly, that's not even half the issues. EVO simply doesn't want Smash 4 there, and they'll probably look at the complaining and drop it because they did.
 
Hopefully by the time 2017 rolls by, the grievances of the Smash 4 will be met in a way that will keep both them & the greater FGC happy.

The best way to handle it would be to trick the Smash 4 players into going to a different venue, locking them inside, and having a surprise lock-in sock hop/ice cream social instead of a tournament

You can't give Smash 4 half the stations it was supposed to have when it had the second most players at the event. And frankly, that's not even half the issues. EVO simply doesn't want Smash 4 there, and they'll probably look at the complaining and drop it because they did.

Sure you can, if you think it'll work. It's a fuck up. If they didn't want it there, it wouldn't be there.
 

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
What happened with Pokken to make it run that late?
Apparently Pokken matches take forever, whoever set up the time slots grossly underestimated how long it would take to get through the whole bracket. So KI top 8 started well over two hours late and when it finally did if course it was in the middle of JWong Vs Daigo SFV lol. On top of that they didn't stream a huge chunk of the qualifying matches during the day even though the game had one of smallest time allocations.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
You can't give Smash 4 half the stations it was supposed to have when it had the second most players at the event. And frankly, that's not even half the issues. EVO simply doesn't want Smash 4 there, and they'll probably look at the complaining and drop it because they did.
I'm not sure they can get away with that next year unless the NX port doesn't end up happening.
 

GamerJM

Banned
How was Melee treated in comparison?

We had some of the same issues. Two setups for pools, crowding around CRTs to watch matches. It wasn't as bad though, day 2 matches were later, finals on day 3, more matches on main stage. And btw I'm having a blast still because it's evo, in my seat at the Mandalay Bay right now.
 

Duxxy3

Member
From a viewer perspective this has looked like crap so far.

On stream matches going on with people crowded behind the competitors. No stage for too many of those streams.

It looked like they were in some airport hanger instead of a comfortable ballroom like previous years.

I get that EVO is going after the esports dollars, but I was hoping it wouldn't be at the expense of presentation. So far it has been.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Apparently Pokken matches take forever, whoever set up the time slots grossly underestimated how long it would take to get through the whole bracket. So KI top 8 started well over two hours late and when it finally did if course it was in the middle of JWong Vs Daigo SFV lol. On top of that they didn't stream a huge chunk of the qualifying matches during the day even though the game had one of smallest time allocations.

From what I've watched, matches are pretty short. The finals were long because there was some real back and forth between top players. The grand finals even had a bracket reset with Tonosama coming all the ways from losers and taking the win.
 

Lulubop

Member
From a viewer perspective this has looked like crap so far.

On stream matches going on with people crowded behind the competitors. No stage for too many of those streams.

It looked like they were in some airport hanger instead of a comfortable ballroom like previous years.

I get that EVO is going after the esports dollars, but I was hoping it wouldn't be at the expense of presentation. So far it has been.

They needa a bigger space for how big the event had gotten.

Finals today is at an actually arena...
 
I'm sorry but the biggest games at your event deserve the most attention. Smash 4 should have finished on Sunday just like SFV and Melee. This kind of treatment is unprofessional and frankly disgusting. The fact that the second largest game in entries gets rushed to hell in back in dumbfounding.
 
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