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Xbox Scorpio has system-wide supersampling for 1080p display users

Andrefpvs

Andrefpvs

Member
I created this separate thread to discuss system-wide supersampling (downsampling) in Project Scorpio, since this is an amazing feature for 1080p users (and is also one of the PS4 Pro's biggest issues). I hope it's okay to have this thread, since in the current megathread it's hard to have a focused discussion about this specific feature only.


Digital Foundry said:
With some PS4 Pro titles, we've been vocal in our criticisms of game modes locked to specific display types. If a title has a high resolution mode, 1080p display users should get super-sampling - something that doesn't always happen, even on Sony first party games. Part of Microsoft's commitment to the 1080p user is that super-sampling just happens out of the box - if a Scorpio title runs at a higher rendering resolution, it must downsample for full HD screens. Similarly, in-game frame-rates must be the same or faster than standard Xbox One titles. Hopefully we'll actually see smoother performance. [UPDATE: We've updated this paragraph to clarify that downsampling happens at a system level, it's not a requirement for the developer to implement it.]

At the hardware level, Microsoft is confident in the quality of the scaler built into Scorpio's display processor. It's enhanced over the Xbox One S equivalent to "handle the bandwidth and quality requirements of 4K", using a high quality six-tap vertical and horizontal Lanczos filter. Compared to a native 1080p output on Xbox One, super-sampling is a great feature to have: anti-aliasing quality is second to none, the same texture filtering quality improves with more resolution (for a given screen area, the texture is sampled more) and art is richer owing to the use of more highly detailed texture assets.

Microsoft's insistence on 1080p supersampling is actually more inclusive than it sounds, and it's good news for users of all screens. There have been instances of PS4 Pro games with higher performance 1080p modes only accessible if the front-end is set to a full HD output - No Man's Sky and The Last Guardian are two examples of this. If your Pro's set to 4K instead, you might never even know that an alternative, higher performing mode exists. With Scorpio, all game modes - resolution, performance or otherwise - must be available to all users regardless of the display the console is attached to. This philosophy reflects a long-held Digital Foundry view, and hopefully PS4 Pro titles will also follow suit.
Click to expand...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...pio-is-console-hardware-pushed-to-a-new-level


If the game has performance/resolution modes (think Nioh's movie/action modes), then you have access to them regardless of the resolution of your display. This is a good thing, because now you have a choice (unlike with some PS4 Pro games):

Digital Foundry said:
Regular Digital Foundry readers will know that we've been vocal about all PS4 Pro modes being available to all users, regardless of the display attached to the console. Performance modes should be accessible to 4K users, while ultra HD rendering should super-sample down for those 1080p displays. Microsoft has mandated this to all developers, along with the requirement that all titles should run at the same frame-rate or higher as the standard Xbox One.
Click to expand...
Digital Foundry said:
Microsoft has made a commitment that (unlike PS4 Pro) all improved Scorpio modes for games must be available regardless of the display that's connected. So even with a regular 1080p TV, you'll be able to choose between performance modes that make the game run better, or resolution modes that will then "supersample" the 4K image down to your 1080p display, which should give you superb image quality - basically, a fantastically smooth and pretty picture. It's like having the ultimate anti-aliasing solution.
Click to expand...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-06-project-scorpio-explained


This is great news, especially after the puzzling omission of supersampling in some PS4 Pro titles. If you're a 1080p display owner, does this feature make you interested in the Scorpio? Do you think Sony will finally implement the same feature in the PS4 Pro?
 
R

Rocketz

Member
Great for me as I can probably get the soon to be wife on board for the console, but a new TV at the same time would be a little much.
 
C

Capsov

Member
Learning from Sonys mistakes. Microsoft has a great opportunity here, hopefully they don't squander it.
 
J

Jezehbell

Member
Nice. I wonder if games will be better looking with 1080p downsampling (on a 1080p TV) or with native 4K resolution (on a 4K TV)
 
G

glaurung

Member
Pretty great, but at the same time they are really pushing for having 4K screens.

Now if only Xbox had some games I'd want to play.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
balls in your court Sony




XD



Fucking good.....it should be fucking mandated.....some of the Pro stuff has been complete bullshit.
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
This was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for with Scorpio. I just bought a new TV about three years ago and there's no way I can justify getting a 4K set any time soon. Hearing that I'll still get plenty of benefits from the new hardware guarantees that I'm there on day one.
 
J

JamboGT

Member
Awesome, that is one of the best aspects of Pro games that do this, looks clean. Hope Sony consider something similar.
 
V

vivekTO

Member
Will it have 1080 mode as well like pro , where someone choose between 4k mode(downsampled) or 1080 mode with extra benefits, is that confirmed somewhere??
 
R

Risk Breaker

Member
I believe they can do this because the gap between Xbone and Scorpio is so big in all areas (not just TFLOPS, but also BW) that it will never mean worse performance at 4k than Xbone at 1080p.

Whereas the PS4 and PS4P have areas where the difference is smaller (BW) and forcing supersampling from a certain resolution for all titles would not work IMO.
 
Andrefpvs

Andrefpvs

Member
vivekTO said:
Will it have 1080 mode as well like pro , where someone choose between 4k mode(downsampled) or 1080 mode with extra benefits, is that confirmed somewhere??
Click to expand...

Yes, it will! It's in the OP:

With Scorpio, all game modes - resolution, performance or otherwise - must be available to all users regardless of the display the console is attached to.
Click to expand...
 
Dee Dah Dave

Dee Dah Dave

Member
It's good they nailed this for 1080p owners. 4K is obviously the push but it's great that the Scorpio is still a worthy system for anyone on an older TV.

edit- 16xAF too. Now I only hope this is going to be a common feature of new games too, not just 'brute forcing' it on the old ones.
 
A

AllBusinessJr

Member
Risk Breaker said:
I believe they can do this because the gap between Xbone and Scorpio is so big in all areas (not just TFLOPS, but also BW) that it will never mean worse performance at 4k than Xbone at 1080p.

Whereas the PS4 and PS4P have areas where the difference is smaller (BW) and forcing supersampling from a certain resolution for all titles would not work IMO.
Click to expand...

If the game has a Pro patch and displays in 4K via checkboard rendering, why wouldn't supersampling for 1080p displays work? That doesn't make sense.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Before I got a 4k TV I always downsampled from 1440p and up to 4k depending on the game on PC.

It's great, especially due to being able to drop AA or even turn it off. You could balance resolution and image quality.

Older games with AA cranked and downsampled from 4k looked incredibly clean.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Formosa said:
Go 4K or Go Home.
Click to expand...
k4HAdXj.jpg
 
H

Harp

Member
Because it's not a automatic hardware thing I am still sure there will be games that don't down sample. Just like there will still be 1080p games.

It's never good business to force someone to do something if they don't want to.
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
wesleyshark said:
I upgraded to a 55 from a 40 last year. Looks like it'll do just fine for a long while. :)
Click to expand...

Yep! Honestly, the idea of 4K games on consoles just doesn't appeal to me right now. I'd much rather have better performance etc... on a 1080p set, especially when PS4/Xbox One have struggled to max out FPS/resolution. I'm down for a 4K TV when we can see hardware that offers a similar level of performance without significant tradeoffs. That'll most likely be the successor to Scorpio and PS5.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Falchion said:
So as a 1080p user, how much better will this look on my display compared to a normal 1080p output?
Click to expand...

IQ improvement is significant. I'm a pretty happy 1080p TV owner with my Pro, so I have no doubt whatsoever that you would be one with a Scorpio.
 
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